In Australia Hallowe'en is not traditionally celebrated, but with increased Americanisation (much to the dismay of older Australians) it is being foisted on us. Sorry to sound like such a grump, but it's disappointing to see our traditional culture being subsumed by a foreign one.

I'd certainly second what Colleen says. There never used to be any Hallowe'en carrying-on in this country. Within the last few years supermarkets have started selling over-priced masks/costumes etc and pumpkins, never a fruit (if it is a fruit) much grown here, are being sold from farm gates. Even trick or treating happens in a small way and some kids use it as an excuse to trash people's property.
I would be very worried if the local Dr's/nurses treated their patients while dressed as ghouls, ghosts,witches or undead. If you were feeling unwell it could set you back years . . .
For how long has it been 'celebrated' in the US?

There has been a Hallow'een party in my Australian Retirement Village for some years put on by the very active Social Club who will use any excuse for a party!
The residents dress up and bring special food and drinks to the decorated Club room.
Actually as I am not a member, I don't go to these parties but I like to peep in beforehand to see the imaginative decorations!

There never used to be any Hallowe'en carrying-on in this country.

"Never", Vee. Are you sure about that?

Reading up on the origins of Hallowe'en, I learned that it seems to have originated as a conflation of Celtic traditions (Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and possibly continental Celts such as certain Germanic tribes) with those of Christian traditions.

Shakespeare mentions the mischief-making of people dressing up and begging for food at Hallowmas, as it was called in his day, and playing pranks if they didn't get the 'treats'.

Jack o' Lanterns were carved from turnips and mangel wurzels in Britain and Europe before Americans took up the tradition of carving pumpkins. Native-to-America pumpkins (vegetables, part of the squash family) are larger and easier to carve than turnips and beets, so that makes sense.

The Puritans didn't approve of Hallowmas (Hallowe'en). Naturally they didn't because they were Protestants and they associated the old tradition with popery. Hallowe'en was rather slow to take off in North America, not becoming common until the late 19th century. The first official date of Hallowe'en (more generally without the apostrophe: Halloween) seems to have been 1911 in the U.S.

Americans embraced Halloween fully in the 20th century, true, but if people think it's primarily an American phenomenon, they need to read up on its history and reevaluate their thinking. Perhaps this misapprehension has grown with the increased wearing of costumes inspired by American films and the mocking of American political figures (e.g. a Tricky Dick Nixon mask or a George W. Bush one; those of Obama are currently offered).

At least in the part of the world where I grew up, Halloween was strictly a children's holiday. Trick or treating, an occasional party with apple-bobbing, carving pumpkins, etc. When I was a teenager during the 70s, it seemed to die out. Then it came roaring back as a mostly adult holiday, with many parties, costumes, decorations, etc. I observe all of this with bemusement and secretly hope to go to a party dressed at Brunhilde before I get much older.

BTW, pumpkins are delicious. Can be prepared many ways. And don't throw out those seeds, either. Nom nom nom.

Halloween was obviously well-established by 1910, when "Maida's Little Shop" was published - at least in New England, which was the series' setting. :) The decoration of the shop is a big event, and there's a neighborhood party with many of the traditional games (bobbing for apples, etc.). On the other hand, the Little House books, set in the 1880's in the Dakotas, never mention the festival.

Sorry Frieda, perhaps I was generalising too much as I really intended to just second what Colleen wrote. I wasn't thinking of ancient Hallowe'en traditions, just from the times of which I am familiar ('though I sometimes feel I'm becoming more ancient by the minute).
I don't think I had heard of the term Hallowe'en until aged ten the nuns took charge of me. They regarded All Souls Day (as they called Hallowe'en) as the time connected with SIN and the following day All Saints Day as the important feast as it commemorated those few pure happy spirits who had entered the Kingdom of Heaven.
This 'feast' always coincided with a school half-term holiday and the older pupils were expected to forgo the time with their families to stay at school and undertake a Retreat. Lots of sermons, time in the school chapel, meditation, reading spiritual books, very basic meals (just short of 'fasting') and no talking . . . the real killer for me . . .were kept up for, I think, three days. I endured one of these events then pulled my 'non-Catholic' card and went home for more normal family life.

I agree that Halloween is increasingly noticeable in Australia. I also object to it, as it seems to me just an excuse for kids to beg for lollies. A couple of years ago I opened the door to some kids who said 'trick or treat' and I asked 'what's the trick?' to be looked at blankly LOL.
My almost DIL's family celebrate, but they are forgiven as her mum is from the US.
We have large pumpkins, but not the variety found in the US, and of course it is spring here so not pumpkin season.

Vee, I figured that's what you meant, but I was just checking. :-) My Vale of Pickering friend says that some folk in Yorkshire observed Hallowe'en when she was young, but it was minor, mostly homemade fun. Perhaps because they were nearer to the border of Scotland some of the traditions spilt over to them. I've noticed how traditions can vary quite a lot between the north and south of England.

I object to the commercialization of Halloween and it being all about the candy for many (most?) children these days. I have very fond memories of Halloween. We had sweet treats but they were often homemade caramel popcorn balls, toffee apples, cookies, and handmade candy (taffy, ribbon, flavored rock, fondants, etc.)

Our costumes were mostly improvised from old bed sheets, pillow slips, cast-off garments, and whatever items we could cobble together.

I remember making papier mache head gear in school art classes several years in a row by blowing up a balloon to whatever head-size was needed, then plastering the balloon with newspaper strips wetted in flour/water goo into whatever shape the creator wanted (I was unimaginative and usually did a pumpkin head). When that dried, the balloon was deflated; eye, nose, mouth and ear holes were cut out; and the whole thing was painted. It was fitted over the wearer's head to be worn with whatever body costume coordinated. It looked great and certainly did disguise the wearer underneath, but it could also be heavy, impeded peripheral vision, and could render the wearer virtually deaf...in other words, it was dangerous and was eventually banned. That seemed to be when those cheap, flimsy commercial masks and costumes took over. Then later, after I had already outgrown trick or treating, there was a scare about perverts putting foreign objects such as razor blades into candy or apples and some deliberate poisoning cases. Thereafter only commercially produced wrapped and packaged treats were trusted. A pity, I think.

Frieda, I, too had read that Halloween had early Celtic origins, associated with the early Celtic calendar. If Jan were here, she would remember the 4 different names for each celebration.

I, too, have fond memories of my childhood Halloweens, which were quite safe in those innocent days. Our costumes were simple, we wandered our neighborhood safely after dark. The worst "tricks" involved bad boys festooning trees with toilet paper or throwing eggs at cars. Treats were often home-made and safe.

Somehow in the 70's, all this innocence morphed into the slaying of black cats, the razor blades in apples, the Voodoo aspects, etc. sadly.

I'm one who adores pumpkins -- cakes, soups, pies, pumpkin anything is delicious and it carries the very essence of autumn to my mind.

We are kindred spirits, Woodnymph. I love cooking with pumpkin. Nothings says autumn to me like homemade pumpkin soup. Recently I have been experimenting with pumpkin gnocchi recipes to find one which is foolproof, and not too heavy.

I adored Hallowe'en as a child, though I stopped trick or treating when I was about fourteen. I still love the season, however. I don't get any trick-or-treating where I live, thankfully. I mark the holiday by rereading some of my favorite ghost stories.I usually reread "Oh, Whistle, and I'll Come to You, My Lad" by M.R. James, which I still consider to be the most timeless and reliable scare.

In Iceland we already have Ash Wednesday for kids to dress up in costumes. They gather together to beat apart piñatas (usually wooden barrels filled with caramels - although in the olden days there would have been a live cat inside the barrel) and then they go off in small groups to mooch candy from shops and offices - well, I say mooch but they actually sing for it, a charming tradition that has spread from Akureyri to the rest of the country. I think this custom came here from Denmark while Iceland was a Danish colony.

However, supermarkets and costume shops have been trying to foist Halloween on us for years because they see potential profit in it. I think it was Hard Rock café that started offering free meals to anyone turning up in costume on Halloween, and some bars seem to have followed suit, but it hasn't really caught on. There has been some minor success, mostly because some will grab any opportunity to have fun - Halloween being celebrated here by adults eager to dress up and party.

I adore pumpkins not so much for eating -- although I love spicy pepitas (seeds) and Astrokath's pumpkin soup recipe -- but for their bright splashes of color to contrast with the corn shocks, hay bales, and sprays of varicolored ears of corn alongside a comical scarecrow. I think that's what I remember most about a trip I made to New England one fall (besides the spectacular trees). We drove down country roads and it seemed like around every bend in front of a house or on the front porch was a tableau with the items I listed above. Sometimes there were ghosts and skeletons hanging from trees, too, or a witch on her broom suspended somehow by wires between two trees, and maybe a quaint tombstone or two in the front yard. So charming. I don't go in for the grotesque versions that I've sometimes seen displayed in more recent days.

Woodnymph, I don't know what happened in the 1970s. I was living outside the U.S. during most of that decade, and when I came back the holiday had changed into something that I've never really liked. Maybe the negative (to my mind) influence came from those 'Halloween' movies that for some reason became so popular. I never watched more than a few minutes of one. I preferred the campiness of the Hammer Studio horror flicks.

Yikes, Netla! I'm glad caramels have replaced the live cat in the piñata (barrel). You nailed it about the potential profit motive. I'm cynical enough to think that's about all it is and, indeed, I would feel foisted upon. However, entrepreneurship certainly has its value too.

I love Hallowe'en, always have. I appreciate any holiday that allows us to be silly and dressup. We all take ourselves much too seriously.
Last year I was a witch and my husband was a blood soaked, flesh dripping off zombie - we were on a cruise ship and at the dinner that night there was a very proper couple who took a look at him, and had problems eating.
I used to have Halloween dinner parties.You had to come in costume, we had a table cauldron centerpiece with dry ice in it, very cool as the fog drifted off the table onto the floor. I remember one time, I had our main bathroom decorated too. I added red food dye to the water in the tub and had a plastic mask with skeletal body floating in it. I stuck a knife in the mask head, and then surrounded the body with about four floating candles to give an eerie effect. An hour after the dinner started, a guest came out of the bathroom coughing, asking if I meant to have so much smoke in there.....a couple of the candles had drifted over the plastic mask and when I went in, the skull mask was blazing away. Made a terrible stench, I don't recommend doing that.
We are one of the few Canadian provinces that allow fireworks on Hallowe'en, but I always thought it had something to do with combining Guy Fawkes traditions to our own. So customs do get intermingled, which is a good thing, I think.

The children who come trick or treating in our neighborhood don't know what a trick is, either. It's all about the candy, but we enjoy seeing the costumes, especially those little fairy princesses who are about three and mostly quite shy.

Over on the newer and more well-to-do side of our subdivision, the houses are more decorated for Halloween than they are for Christmas which makes some kind of statement that I don't like to consider. They hire people to come and decorate their mini-mansions (which are usually set on lots that are too small) for them, so I'm not sure what fun they are having. The kids like to go there, though, because the candy is of both higher quality and quantity.

I had an e-mail tonight from our best local ice cream franchise saying that pumpkin and cinnamon flavors are back this week. Guess I'll be forced to go check them out.

Are the US varieties of pumpkin quite sweet in flavour? I can't imagine making ice cream with the varieties I buy which are Ironbark , Butternut and Kent mainly. I prefer Kent as Ironbark is like the name and hard to peel raw but roasts well complete with the skin.

Ann, I've never heard of Ironbark. We have mostly Butternut, Kent, Queensland Blue and Jap.

I have to be careful here because I have not tasted all varieties of pumpkins, but, no, American pumpkins are generally not sweet. In fact, they are rather bland but with a distinct pumpkin-y taste. The blandness is a plus because they can be seasoned any way a cook desires, from savory to sweet. Any kind of sweetener may be used, from cane sugar to corn syrup to honey.

When Americans say "pumpkin" they are usually referring to Cucurbita pepo, the quintessential jack-o'-lantern carving pumpkin, usually bright orange in color. However, the C. pepo is a variety of the 'winter squash' group that can be used interchangeably with it. Kath mentioned butternut, which Americans refer to as 'squash' not pumpkin. Many of the canned purees marketed in the U.S. are actually made from butternut or other varieties of squash and not from C. pepo, the 'true' pumpkin in the minds of most North Americans.

Since there's been no response to my post, either agreeing or disagreeing, I wonder if I've only confused things. I've been reading more about pumpkins/squash, and I realize that we might have a 'language difference' here. One site mentions that in Australia and New Zealand, the word 'pumpkin' is used to mean the whole category of cultivars that in North America and apparently in the UK (according to that site, but I'm not sure it's true) is called 'winter squash'. 'Pumpkin' is an imprecise term.

Something else may be confusing: The good old American pumpkin of Halloween fame is usually C. pepo subspecies pepo, but known widely just as C. pepo without the subspecies qualification. The taxonomy of other winter squash do require the subspecies or variation name, such as the acorn squash Cucurbita pepo var. turbinata.

Now that I've probably bored you or confused you further, I don't blame you for thinking that I might be a bit obsessive about this subject. But it's really bugged me all day long! :-)

In the past couple of years, I've seen white pumpkins, called "ghost pumpkins" sold along side the regular orange ones. Are they c.pepos too? They look almost identical, except for the color. Over to you friedag...

Janalyn, the "ghost pumpkin" is a variety of Curcubita maxima. I couldn't find its variety name, but I only did a quick search. Actually there are several varieties of white pumpkins with vernacular names such as Baby Boos, Caspers, Full Moons... I've seen some of them but I'm not sure if I've ever tasted any of them. I've read that they are harder to carve than C. pepos, but I have no experience and can't say whether that's right or not.

annpan, I've always found the Kent (or as it used to be called, Jap) pumpkins are quite sweet tasting when roasted. The Queensland Blues, however, can be either really sweet or really bland; it's a bit of a crap shoot because you can't tell from their appearance :-( So I get Kents :-)

Butternuts are about the only pumpkins that you can buy in the UK and I think they are all imported from S Europe.
We grow several varieties using seed sent by friends and cousins in the US.
The planting 'window' is very short and critical here, especially when the Spring is late and wet. It was cold here until well into May. Also the drying time needed after harvest is important (we have had almost NO sun this month) or the skin will not dry out and harden and the fruit will rot.
This year DH grew pumpkin sugar/pie and tried Florida seminole (which failed). Squash were butternut, acorn table queen and table gold, Guatemala blue banana, red kobocha and uchicki kuri.
We grow them, not for carving, but for adding to soups, stews, roasts etc.
John has tried to add a photo here but the site will not play!
It has however appeared on the Test Forum. Go to the link below and scroll down to the second picture.
And if someone can tell us HOW to get the photo thing to work within this site we would be very grateful!

Here is a link that might be useful: Test Forum Picture test Gauge 17

Veer - uploading photos here is very easy. I download the pictures from my camera on to this computer. You just click the browse button on the "Image to Upload" and that allows you access to all the pictures on your computers, assuming you remember where you put them. Once you get the picture you want, highlight it and then click "open." This is important: give it a few minutes to upload as its not immediate, especially if the picture has lots of those byte things. Then you can press preview and submit. Works like a charm.

You know how sometimes you can't send a picture via email because the file is too large? Then it asks you to "shrink" it and it attaches fine? Perhaps if the picture is too large, and I'm talking bytes here, it won't upload. The pictures from my camera work fine, but I did try one from my friend who has one of those yard long cameras and the one he took won't load here probably because the quality and byte size of the picture is so high. Just tested it again with a pic of the lake near my house when in winter on rare snowy day, and it works fine, so I think it must be the size of the file that is causing problems for you.

Vee, from your photo, it looks as if on the far left, there are what we call Butternut Squash, and in the near right, what we call pumpkins, or Jack o' lanterns. I think we in America make a distinction between pumpkins and squash, although both were popular among Native American populations. The squash blossom necklace is a prevalent theme amongst Southwestern Native American tribes.

Halloween was first imported to Sweden by day care centres who needed a break in the empty months of autumn and an opportunity to make decorations and let children dress up, etc. Shops caught on and the craze lasted for about 10 years but seems to have lessened in later years. My own children and their children are totally into Halloween since we spent the holiday in Wisconsin when the kids were small so we still keep it in our home. We air our card board ghosts, skeletons, witches and lanterns brought from American but we are not the majority.

All Saints' Day has always been a serious day for remembering the dead and grave stones are decorated with wreaths and churchyards are lit with candles at night and people go out to look at the sight of hundreds of lights in the dark, thousands in the larger city cemeteries. This is still the most important feature of the holiday in Sweden. The commercial American Halloween will probably not last very long.

Woodnymph, that's the point I was trying to make, but not as succinctly as you did: Americans distinguish between pumpkins and squash. I think the shape is probably the key. Pumpkins are generally globe-shaped while squash can be torpedo-shaped or pear-shaped (like butternuts) or other shapes, such as the Turk's head (turban-shaped), etc.

Cinderella's fairy godmother turned a pumpkin into a coach to transport Cinderella to the ball. (the classic globe)

Peter, Peter pumpkin-eater
Had a wife but couldn't keep her.
He put her in a pumpkin shell
And there he kept her very well.
(again, the classic globe; I can't imagine Peter putting his wife in a butternut or a Hubbard!)

Taking the vegetables Annpan, Kath, and Colleen have mentioned:

The Ironside pumpkin -- looks pumpkin-y to me although it is a good deal smaller; it's the right shape and orange color. I've only seen it used ornamentally and didn't know that it could be roasted.

The Queensland Blue -- looks like a pumpkin to me because of its shape, although it is an unusual color.

The Kent or Japanese -- I would probably call these squash as they are similar in shape to American ones that are called squash, simple as that.

Butternuts -- definitely squash

Vee, that's a beautiful and colorful collection. What is the big, blimp-shaped thing on the right end? I recognize it as (what Americans would call) a squash but I'm not sure which one.

Friedag, I think you have the wrong pumpkin, Ironbark is grey/green and large. If you go to www.gofor2and5.com.au then click onto Vegie Facts and scroll to pumpkins and click, you will see all the ones I mentioned. Japanese is known as Kent where I shop.

Yes, Annpan, I was looking at the wrong pumpkin because when I type in Iron Bark I also get views of the Ironside. The nomenclature is confusing. The Iron Barks shown come in many colors -- white, grey/green as you say, spotted or speckled, etc. The interiors are interesting shades, too -- most seem to be orange-ish. We have those in the US, too, but they are called "Ironbark Squash" AND "Iron Bark Pumpkins" sometimes. I think they are pumpkin-y looking.

A professional horticulturist friend says, "All pumpkins are squash, but not all squash are pumpkins."

He agrees that the word 'pumpkin' is used mostly to refer to globe-shaped squash in the U.S., particularly the C. pepo pepo.

And now I will drop the pumpkin/squash subject, because I'm satisfied enough that we aren't always talking about the same thing although we may use the same words.

But, first, Annpan, do you have a little better idea how pumpkins can be used in sweet recipes, even in ice cream? You haven't commented on that. :-)

Grrr! I typed 'Ironbark', one word, but the damn spellcheck automatically changed it to two words. I changed it back several times, but only one of my corrections took. I HATE this! When misspellings show up, I at least want them to be my own.

If 'Ironbark' shows up in this post as two words, I just want it known that it is not my error! :-(

Friedag, Sorry that I didn't comment on the sweet recipes but I really didn't have anything to say!
This pumpkin topic has been very interesting though and I found the website I mentioned very helpful in listing vegies!
I shall have to be more adventurous in aiming for the 2 and 5 I am supposed to eat daily.....and don't! I sometimes forget to take my Senior vitamin tablets too which contributes to memory loss. Vicious circle!

Samhain is the Celtic festival that was celebrated in Scotland, Ireland, and Isle of Man. It was done with folk dressing in disguises and going from door to door, obtaining food. The day was celebrated October 21 to November 1, and was considered the Harvest festival in the Celtic calendar, halfway between summer and winter solstices.

By the way, Americans make a distinction between Winter squash and Summer squash: the latter being yellow crookneck squash and zucchini, the former being Butternut, et al.

When in the US recently, our Virginian friends took us apple picking, and nearby there was a field of pumpkins.

Kath and Colleen, have you seen the Australian pink pumpkins in the supermarkets that were grown to support Breast Cancer month?
I wouldn't have noticed them if I hadn't been checking up to see if other pumpkins than the usual varieties were available.

No, I haven't been shopping much lately but will try to see one, sounds interesting.

I grew pumpkins for several years, one of my favorite vegetables. I gave it up because the squirrels found them and generally ruined them before I could harvest them.

There is a lovely book on squashes, which I will mention to restore this thread squarely back on topic. It is called The Compleat Squash by Amy Goldman and Vidtor Schrager. It is filled with elegantly composed photographs of more squashes than you can imagine, each picture a work of art. And it is not just eye candy. I learned more about squashes and pumpkins just b reading this book than can be imagined.

All this brings me back to point. Please do not judge the taste of pumpkins by the ones that are used for holiday decoration. Those are grown for decorative qualities and not for flavor. The most common one for jack o'lanterns is Curcurbita pepo 'Connecticut Field Pumpkin'. Like field corn, a field pumpkin is better for feeding livestock that for pleasing the palates of people. There are many others that are quite delicious. Off the top of my head I would recommend 'Sugar Pie', 'Winter Luxury', 'Kabocha','Marina di Chiogia' and 'Buttercup' (not to be confused with 'Butternut'). I myself have not eaten 'Queensland Blue', but it is often recommended as well. Some of these are C. maxima, some C. moschata, and some C. pepo. The difference only matters if you want to save seed for the next year.

Rosefolly

Rosefolly, so we have exported Queensland Blue pumpkins as well as Queensland Blue Heelers!

Annpan, one can get the seeds from specialty heirloom seed growers. I admit to being tempted to plant one someday, but those $%#@ ground squirrels are so bad!

Rosefolly

Rosefolly, could you put a wire netting cage over the pumpkins when they start to form?

Annpan, I could. I have thought about it. But I already have several hundred plants planted in wire baskets to protect them from the gophers and an 8 foot fence around the garden to protect it from the deer. I'm getting a bit tired of the wildlife. We have a resident mountain lion, too, though fortunately we never actually see him (or her). I hope it stays that way forever!

Rosefolly

Goodness me! That is a lot of work. I just have a few Bobtail goannas in my garden sunning themselves and eating snails. You should have seen the glare I got from one of them who thought I was going to take his snail! All yours, Bobby!

The Social Club went all out on the decorations this year, a bat flying towards you as the Club Room door is opened, plenty of ghosts, witches, broomsticks hanging from the ceiling etc. and a beautifully laid out table with tiny skulls at the place settings. The food is usually themed too. I used to be able to see the members going there in their fancy dress from my old place but there will be photoes of the best costumes in the monthly newsletter.
We are lucky to have a skilled editor/photographer in one of the residents who volunteered to take over when the previous editor moved.

If you go to Hot Topics at Garden Web Forums and find the "Wicca" thread, there is a very interesting post re the actual history of Halloween. Guess we can blame this holiday on the Irish....

It has taken many attempts to download a photo here with lots of 'message rejected' , 'go away' 'no I don't want to play with you' but I shall overcome these difficulties.
These are the various squash/pumpkins labelled so you can see which is which.

Why is the Kabocha a squash and not a pumpkin?

Colleen, the term pumpkin is not a formal category. It is just what people call certain winter squashes that are round and usually orange, also ones that look like Cinderella's coach.

There is no real reason not to call the Kabocha squash a pumpkin except that people just don't. In fact, I would be happy to call it the Kabocha pumpkin from this point on. If it makes the world more logical even in this small way, it is a good thing!

Rosefolly

from wikipedia (fwiw):

"The term "pumpkin" as it applies to winter squash has different meanings depending on variety and vernacular. In many areas, including North America and the United Kingdom, "pumpkin" traditionally refers to only certain round, orange varieties of winter squash, predominantly derived from Cucurbita pepo, while in Australian English, "pumpkin" can refer to winter squash of any appearance."

I was shocked to learn that pumpkins are fruits. Colleen, are you still in western Aus? When I was going thru my bookmarks, I found yours. :) I keep waiting for someone from Australia to weigh in on the Light Between Oceans. :)

We had "Light Between Oceans" for book club a couple of months ago. It was OK. It's very evocative of the landscape down south- we were all trying to decide which real town the book's fictional one was set in. Most of us had a few issues with the main characters :-)

Janalyn, sorry but I have never come across that book. I Googled it today and noticed it wasn't a mystery so wouldn't have been on the list I get! How did you find it?