My sister graduated from Scripps in 1968, and I remember her telling similar stories. By the time I entered college in 74, things had changed considerably. Only the most anal dorm mom paid attention to those rules (and even then, most of us were smart enough to figure out how to get around them. By the time I graduated, half of the dorms were coed...

I was only in the dorms for two years, went to live in an apartment near the college. While I valued my independence, I do have to say that those two years were quite wonderful, and I made lifelong friends. But oh those rules!

Speaking of college, going back to topic - when I first started school, I decided to explore the university library. It was built in 1910, and had stack upon stack of metal tiers - filled with rare books. I must have spent hours there my first time - enjoying the feel of being among such aged learning (so my naive self thought) and that was the start of a love affair of such things. The library was rebuilt in 1974, and while it was much more modern and useful, I always think fondly of those old dusty shelves of books.

veer, when I had my first garden, I pressed many flowers in our huge webster dictionary. Now and then, I still find one as I am browsing through the pages.

Frieda wrote: The charm of the stories was their quaintness, saccharine though they are.

This is precisely why I will deliberately seek out out of print "oldies" and occasionally revisit "The Little Colonel" stories. Lots of these were not "politically correct" in terms of today's values, but I find them nostalgic and fun.

Some of the strict rules in girls' dormitories were definitely in force in the early Sixties in Virginia Colleges. There was a "housemother" (definitely a spinster stereotype, Miss something or other) who played the dragon guarding the gates. We had to sign out and sign in for dates. Gentlemen were only entertained in the dorm "parlor". When going away on weekends at boys' colleges or Univ. we could overnight only in certain "approved" houses. (Turned out some of these boarding houses were incredibly lenient, after all).

I still recall being fearful having lingered past mid night on campus deep in a philosophical discussion on Existentialism with the handsome philos. professor in his office. No demerits, however, after I sneaked back to my dorm in the dark.

And chapel! It was strictly verboten to "cut" chapel, which was twice a week. Yet we did, hiding in our rooms, occasionally stealing a smoke (also verboten, as there was only the "study smoker" for that! Had we been caught, there would have been a mock trial before our peers. Don't get me started....

Mary I love the staying out late in a philosophical discussion on Existentialism. Surely that is the only reason an 18/19 year old would be out after midnight. As we say over here "Pull the other one!"

It sounds as though you girls were either in Reform School or the Work House. Did men's colleges have such strict rules?
When I was at college in the '60's you had to be in by 11, or 12 at weekends. Men were not allowed past the lounge except at weekends.
It seems very old-fashioned but they did have a 'dress code'. Men had to wear ties and jackets to lectures and women were not allowed to wear trousers/slacks to lectures or 'formal' meals. My goodness that dates me!
When you talk about 'dorms' do you actually mean dormitories ie lots of beds in one long room, or did you have your own rooms?
When I started at College the student population was suddenly doubled and we were forced to share 2 to a single room. It wasn't much fun to be crowded up like that, especially as my room mate was a 'tough' little cookie (and there was me straight out of the Convent) She came in on our first meeting threw her bags onto her bed and said "Eee, I'm going to have a ball!"
The first w/end I arrived back to the room after lunch and found her entertaining 2 guys; one on each bed. She only lasted about 10 months as she left to have twins!

Vee, the dormitories in both colleges I attended in the 1960s & early 1970s were arranged in suites -- 2 bedrooms with a connecting bath (including lav & shower). Mostly there were two girls to a room; but one term I lucked out and didn't have a roommate, although I had two "suite mates" (the occupants of the other bed room). I got married during the summer after my second year. We lived in "married housing" (a teeny-tiny apartment in a block owned by the university) until my husband went to Vietnam. I then transfered back to a women's dormitory because of a scarcity of housing in the town and because I didn't want to live off campus with a bunch of housemates that I didn't know, the only other option. Although I was older and married, I had to follow the same rules as the other young women, signing in and out, etc. That didn't work well because I was a reporter for the local newspaper and got caught out in the boonies, on assignment, several times and this caused a ruckus when I wasn't in my room at bed-check time and the disgruntled doorkeeper carped about "special considerations" I was getting. I finally found a house to rent where I lived alone until I graduated. Shortly thereafter, I left for Europe.

I'm like you, Cindy: I complained bitterly about all the strictures, but I look back on those two years when I was single and living in the dorm very fondly. I, too, made lifelong friends that I probably wouldn't have if we hadn't been thrown together so much.

Vee, here I am off topic again!

>Did men's colleges have such strict rules?

Of course not - they were out sowing their wild oats, with the girls who did not have the 'protection' that those rules gave them :) You do have to remember of course that our country was started for the most part by Puritan folks, and much of that strictness regarding sexual contact has stayed in our culture. Also remember that for years any girl going to college was suspect, and a way of getting more girls into college was by making rules that would keep their parents very very happy.

My dorm was a four story building with two halls on each floor. Each hall contained eight small rooms for two women, with a large communal bathroom down the hall and a communal kitchen downstairs (frieda I remember attending some function at UC Davis and was so jealous of their dorm room, just as you describe!)

Those rooms with several beds were still used in the early 60s at some schools. We had a horrible murder case here, '66 I think?, when 8 student nurses in just one of those types of dorms.

Well, I can't resist coming back to this, but I'll try to tie in with books this time. :-)

Vee, are you familiar with That Boarding School Girl by Dorita Fairlie Bruce? Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk don't give a synopsis; but with a publisher called Girls Gone By Publishers, I gather that it's probably a facsimile of an old edition. I ordered it because I really like some of the British school-girl tales, though I don't think I've read any of the authors you mentioned above.

As for your question about whether the men's colleges had strict rules: My brothers, who attended universities in 1960-1964 and 1966-1970, lived in dorms only during their freshman years. The rules they had were: No defacing of property and no murdering of roommates. They could come and go, at all hours, and didn't have to tell anyone. And they had maids to clean their baths and toilets! while we girls had to do our own housekeeping. My oldest brother had to dress "neatly" for his classes. That meant plaid or striped shirts, dark trousers, a belt, and penny loafers or oxford shoes, with socks. My second brother could -- and did -- show up for class in any clothing that covered the more offensive regions. He never wore socks and half the time didn't wear shoes, either, but who could tell? He walked on the hems of his bellbottoms. What a difference there was between the early and late 1960s!

We girls, on the other hand, were frowned at if we wore pants to class. Eventually, though, pantsuits gained approbation (about 1969), and by the time of my last year in college, it was pretty hard to tell the girls from the boys with long hair if both were in jeans. Micro-minis and hotpants (remember those?) were de rigueur, even for those who should never have considered wearing them. It was different, though, for my sister-in-law who went to a church-run college where the dress code prevailed -- she never did get to wear pants, even demure pantsuits, to class.

Mary, my dorm had a dark, mysterious little room at the end of the hall with a couple of tables, a few chairs, and a couch. We finally learned that it had formerly been "the smoker" back in the days when the residents weren't allowed to light up in their rooms. Some of our professors smoked in class and allowed students to do so, too.

Frieda, I'm not familiar with the 'Boarding School' book you mention although my DD had one of her books about a fearless girl, stopping runaway trains etc. . . and did the 'e' I sent you ever arrive?
But, over here there used to be from pre-WWII until not so long ago many girls 'comics' ie strip pictures/stories and straight stories with illustrations. 'School Friend' and 'Girl's Crystal') used to run endless school adventures. Small groups of girls who always found the smugglers (amazing how their schools were nearly always on the coast),
or unmasked the science mistress as a German/Russian spy. In those pre sexual revolution times boys played only small roles in the tales. Today's mags for girls would make your hair curl!

My goodness, all your American Puritan ancestors would have a shock if they could see University/College life today!
Housework was never demanded of us at College, although the cleaners would refuse to 'do' your room if it was a tip. Sheets and towels were also provided and washed, although personal clothes had to be done in a 'laundry room' which had sinks/irons etc but no washing machines. The boys 'Halls of Residence' always had 'drip-dry' shirts hanging from curtain rails.
I don't think there is a lack of socks problem with UK men. Too cold for bare feet and it is rumoured that some low-life males even wear their socks in the most intimate situation.
Plaid shirt ("I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK") have always been considered totally uncool over here although T shirts, either baggy or small and piercing-revealing (depending on fashion) with jeans now seem to be standard dress for everyone of both sexes.
Smoking? Most student grants/allowances went on fags with few no-go areas. The air in the common-rooms was blue with smoke.

Cindy, for all the restrictions there were re sexual goings-on among US young people they certainly got married much earlier than in the UK. Early marriage has almost always been discouraged by parents (and College authorities)
and very few young men wanted to 'take the plunge'. Of course today the practise of 'living together' seems to have taken over with a worrying lack of commitment on all sides.

Back to the Sixties: I seem to recall the key phrase was "in loco parentis". At least, this was the watchword at the Virginia all female college I attended. (meaning your parents were entrusting you to the good graces of professors, students,Dormitory "mothers" and Rectors on campus).

Different behavior for guys at that time frame? I dated for years a boy from a nearby all male Virginia University.We frequently compared notes about "rules". He told me there was only one rule for his classmates: "At all times, be a Gentleman." This covered everything! Remember, this was the old south, in the tradition of Thomas Jefferson, Robert E. Lee, George Washington, et al.

Dress codes: in the early Sixties, skirts always to meals and to classes, no slacks, no bluejeans, etc. except on Saturdays. Although I recall very clearly going to 8 o'clock classes in my nightgown, discreetly hidden under a trench coat! (Those London Fog trench coats, usually khaki colored, were de rigeur!) It was not uncommon to do this.

Later, gradually a few male graduate students were introduced on campus, living in special housing. Dormitories for regular students were a mixed bag: some living in decrepit buildings from the 1860's, others in Victorian houses turned into dorms, others in more modern 1950's motel-like buildings. Usually it was 2 to a room, but a few had "singles" and a few had a quartet.

We did not have to clean our rooms but no one cleaned them for us. We did not have to wash or iron our own clothers. There were "maids" who would iron your things in the basement for a tip, as well as a large laundry on campus.
"Memories that bless and burn...."

What fun to read all this, as I lived it too. My fantasy has been that when I am a VERY old lady, I will live in a nursing home just like the dorms in the girls' school I attended. They were the best friends I ever made. It is still somewhat amazing to me how the single-sex school system, which prevailed among most private colleges and universities east of the Mississippi, collapsed so suddenly around 1970, just after I graduated.

I went to an all-girls day school in high school and went to another part of the country to an all-girls college. People said "girls", not "women". They were academically rigorous. We had to have have three years of Latin and three years of a modern language to get in, among other requirements. Intellectual life was vigorous and courses demanding. There was a core curriculum everyone had to take, in addition to those in one's major.

With all that, we had the social rules others have described, tho these were much looser than those of earlier decades. Signing in and out. Demerits. Curfews. No slacks, ever, except on the dorm floors. "Quiet hours" after 8pm during the week so people could study--no music or loud talking. Formal dinner every night was served by students "working their way thru", and I don't remember any social discrimination against those who did so.

Seniors could wear academic robes and we often threw them on over nightgowns to go to class. Raincoats served the purpose in earlier years. There were a couple of girls who were never seen in actual clothing our entire senior year.

It was a Catholic school and many of us were very religious but no one ever checked on attendance--it was not required. We were required to learn Gregorian chant and Mass was very beautiful, tho because it was the 60s, you were as likely to hear African rhythms as chant.

We heard we were lucky because the requirement for stockings had been eliminated just before we started. We had an elderly grandfather type who looked over the boys as they arrived for Saturday night dates. If they passed muster, he called right up to our rooms. If not, they cooled their heels for quite some time and perhaps did not venture to ask for a second date.

We needed written letters of permission to leave campus overnight, as for a football weekend somewhere. No one had a TV or ever expressed an interest in it, except for the Batman craze our senior year.

We had a strict honor system, academic and social, which I think most of us took very seriously. I never saw anyone flaunt the few rules. On just a few occasions, there was an infraction. A board of students, administration and faculty met. An "honor assembly" was called. The president of the student council announced "There has been an infraction of the honor system." The penalty was announced, suspension or expulsion. No names were given and we were left to speculate. I can't imagine such a thing working today.

I was a junior when the Berkeley...

Ginny really intersting. What is an 'honor system'? Does it mean keeping to the rules?

And what sort of shoes are 'penny loafers' that Frieda mentioned please?

Penny loafers were part of the "collegiate" clothing style, later called "preppy". Each term alludes to the styles worn by many students in expensive private prep schools, colleges and universities. We called them Weejuns after the most popular brand. You weren't in without Weejuns. They are a brown slip-on shoe, for both men and women, with a decorative slot on top into which you could slide a penny. The penny was never "in" where I lived--one of those regional things.

Penny loafers or Weejuns came in other colors but only brown was acceptable. "Hoods", called "greasers" in the movie "Grease", wore black. I can't believe all this, even as I type it. I am laughing.

Also part of the "collegiate" or "preppy" look were Peter Pan collars, monogrammed circle pins, cardigan sweaters with grosgrain ribbon down the front and coordinated wool plaid A-line skirts. Madras was huge, especially in summer, and it had better be real Madras that bled, not the fake prints. Some of this stuff is actually coming back.

The honor system is of far more moment. I don't think it existed in too many schools. We were very proud of ours. Learning about it was an important part of freshman orientation. Basically it meant that we relied on our own honor, rather than a police system, to follow the rules. In academic life, we had no proctors in exams. No one watched over us. All research was expected to be original and fully documented. In four years, I never saw anyone cheat or heard of anyone doing so. Maybe they did but I never saw it.

In the rest of college life, we were supposed to follow the rules, which varied in importance. A few late minutes were not a problem, tho the honor system required that you sign in accurately. No one was there to check, tho. You were allowed a total of twenty late minutes a semester. After that, you got Saturday detention, which meant staying on campus, a true punishment after a tough week of nose-to-the-grindstone studying. Again, no one checked to see if we stayed, but we did.

There were other much more serious infractions of the social honor system--like smoking in your room. There was one smoker per dormitory and it was the center of our social life, for smokers (and there were many of us then) and non-smokers. The endless bridge games, the all-night philosopical and political debates...it was great.

In fact, at my college the first stirrings of the 60s student rebellion took place over the issue. After the 1964 Surgeon General's report on the health risks of smoking, the college overnight--literally--removed all cigarette machines from campus. It was an authoritarian move. Kennedy had just been assassinated and just two months later, the Beatles made their first US visit. The mood among the young had changed, suddenly and permanently. We were in an uproar about the administration's high-handed move. We chose girls to buy cigarettes in bulk and re-sell them on campus--as...

Staying in the Sixties: Ginny, you and I must be about the same generation, as so much of what you wrote above hit home with me.

Not only do I recall the Penny loafers, often with Bobby Sox, but also the floral Liberty of London prints for scarves and skirts, and the "McMullen" blouses. At the college I attended there was almost a certain Preppy uniform. I think I bought Lisa Birnbach's Preppy Handbook for the fond memories!

I was at college when Pres. Kennedy was assasinated. The chapel bell tolled and classes were cancelled everywhere at the array of colleges in my part of Virginia. I was, I think, a Senior when the Beatles arrived. Immediately, there were impersonators of their hairstyles in our class, with a good deal of lampooning.

We, too, had the honor system. What I vividly recall is that no student was allowed to be married during her 4 academic years. Yet there were a few who secretly eloped. When it was found out, they were expelled at once, to everyone's chagrin. (Later, this rule was changed).

Only one girl had her own private telephone in her room, considered a luxury. We all used the telephone in the hall or our dormitories, with little or no privacy. Only seniors were allowed to have cars.

When we came of age officially to drink, a group of us hiked off campus up along the highway on foot to a Howard Johnson's restaurant to order alcohol and celebrate.It seemed like such an adventure, at the time.

As a rite of passage, all incoming Freshmen had to take a difficult course called "The Humanities." In it we read everything from the Bible to Dante to Machiavelli to Oedipus Rex to Beowulf. It nearly finished some of us....

> was at college when Pres. Kennedy was assasinated

I was in second grade.... I remember that the Natl Anthem came on the speaker, and my teacher started to cry. And I was really mad that Saturday when I couldn't watch my cartoons - the funeral was on, and I just didn't get it. Certainly did later.

We were also required to take Humanities. I dropped out of it because the prof was such a rude and inconsiderate jerk. Ended up taking it over a summer at the university up north, and absolutely loved it! Lots of reading, but boy did that class open some doors for me.

We had penny loafers and in the SW it was cool to put a penny in them!

This is all so interesting! Here in Australia, when I went to Uni in the 1970s, not many people lived in. I had a friend from a country town who went home on weekends and lived in university accommodation during the week, but it was a small single room, and as far as I know he had no-one watching over him.
All the rest of my friends lived at home as I did. We wore any casual clothes we wanted to classes, although we did have to wear closed shoes for laboratory classes.

When my sister started at the Government High School near us in 1964, she had to get special permission to leave off gloves, as she walked with crutches. By the time I got there in 1971, we still had a uniform but hats and gloves had gone, and by the time I left in 1975, girls were allowed to wear trousers (but only a certain type). We had a summer dress, and wore an ecru blouse under a box pleated pinafore type dress in winter with a woollen jumper over the top. This went with brown socks and brown shoes, or sandals without socks in summer. I considered myself very daring because in my final year I wore a pale yellow blouse!

Hmmm, I received an e-mail request to clarify American terminology, a timeline, and ages of students as they go through our educational system. I'll try my best, but there is quite a bit of variation from state to state so I want my fellow Americans to help me out. Also, Vee and Kath, could you do something similar, explaining your systems.
Kindergarten - This is traditionally the first year of school for most American schoolchildren, though it is not compulsory in all states. Usually, the child needs to have turned 5 years old before the school year begins. The cut-off date varies -- for instance, it was September 1 in the Midwest when I was growing up because school commenced on the first Tuesday of September.
Primary or Elementary School (the terms are used interchangeably, as far as I can tell) - The 1st grade is, logically enough, the first traditional year of compulsory schooling, though, as I mentioned above, it is not necessarily the first year a child attends school. The child should have turned 6 years old, but sometimes 5-year-olds are admitted.
2nd graders -- 7 to 8 years old
3rd graders -- 8 to 9 years old

In some states 4th and 5th graders are in primary/elementary school, but in others they are in middle school. This is where things get confusing, because in my day middle school was called junior high school and it includes grades 6, 7, 8, and sometimes grade 9. But, anyway, here's the rundown of general ages: Middle School (or Junior High School)
6th grade - 11/12 years old
7th grade - 12/13 years old
8th grade - 13/14 years old
(9th grade - 14/15 years old)
High School
9th grade -- also called freshman year, even when included in junior high school
10th grade -- called sophomore year - A student who has turned 16 years old and wishes to drop-out, can do so legally.
11th grade -- called junior year
12th grade -- called senior year

Most students when they graduate from high school are 17 or 18 years old. If they decide to continue their education, they "will go to college," in American parlance. Two-Year Colleges, these were called Junior Colleges, and some still are, I think, though the latter term has generally fallen out of favor. These institutions provide associates degrees, business-type training, or a transitional period before entering university. Many, if not most, work done at two-year colleges can be transferred with full credit to four-year institutions. As in high school, the school years are sometimes termed freshman and sophomore years.
Four-Year Colleges, these are the universities -- They issue baccalaureate degrees as well as other types of undergraduate diplomas. They also provide post-graduate studies and degrees, the Master's and the Doctorate.
The four years are called freshman, sophomore, junior and senior years, traditionally, but that's less important nowadays, particularly with adults who have interrupted their years, sometimes by...

Here in PA, 4th and 5th are always in the elementary school level, 6th grade sometimes in elementary, sometimes in middle. In my area, 9th is almost always in the high school. So in the District where I teach, the progression is usually:
ages 3-5 private preschool-usually at a church or day care center-usually 1/2 day
age 5-6 kindergarten-universally offered by public and private schools in this area-our program is 1/2 day, but others around us are full day
6-12 or 13 (depending on birth date) grades 1-6, all in the elementary schools (we have 6)Students have 1 teacher for most of the day, but may switch into ability groups for math. In 6th grade they switch more.
12-14 grades 7-8 in the middle schools (we have 2)
14-18 in the high school (we have one large one)

My personal opinion, formed through years of teaching, is that 6th grade should be on their own somewhere-they don't really belong in the elementary school model anymore, but aren't always ready for the middle school rough and tumble. I do know of a district with several elementary schools that turned one of them into a 6th grade magnet school-all the 6th graders from all over the district go there for one year-it is on the middle school model-different teachers for each subject-but they have that year to mature and grow together as a class. It works very well.

It has been traditional that a College only gives BS or BA degrees, a University also grants advanced degrees-Masters, PhD. Many large Universities have within them "The College of Education" or "The College of Sociology". DD graduates tomorrow from College with her two BAs, but will need to move on to a University for her grad school. However, some colleges have begun "The Masters Program at XYZ College." The ones I am familiar with are actually associated with a University somewhere else and these colleges are serving the purpose of a branch campus.

Schooling varies a bit from state to state, but in South Australia in Government Schools:

Kindergarten, is one year of tuition for children between the ages of four and five. State-run kindergartens are basically free, and offer four half-days or two full-days tuition per week. Some are on the campus of primary schools, and some child care centres run their own, but most are separate. Some private schools have their own Kindergarten year.

Primary school starts in SA with Reception, and goes to Year 7. In most other states, it only goes to Year 6, and some call Reception Kindergarten just to confuse things. Many primary schools have an intake every term (four terms a year) and a child can start in the term after they have turned 5. My elder son turned 5 in August, so started Reception in Term 4, and did four more terms the next year. My younger son started in Term 3 and went on to Year 1 after two terms, although most children had to complete at least 3 terms of Reception.

Most of the big private schools have both a Primary and Secondary (High) School part, although a lot of Catholic schools are separate campuses, with several Primary schools feeding into one College. (Note here: a college in SA is generally a private school). There are also a few Government schools covering Reception to Year 12: not surprisingly, these are called R-12 schools.

High School is Years 8 to 12. Many schools call those in Year 12 Seniors, and sometimes Yrs 11 & 12 are called the Senior School. Private schools and some Government R-12 Schools often break up the students into Middle School (Yrs 6-10) and Senior School. Students are 17 or most often 18 when they finish High School.

Tertiary Institutions are the Universities and TAFE (Tertiary and Further Education) Colleges. TAFE courses tend to be 1-3 years and more practical than University courses. Most Bachelor Degrees take 3 years, but there is a further year called Honours to be completed before commencing a PhD (nominally 3 years) or Masters Degree (two years). There is one Uni in Adelaide offering Medicine as a post graduate four year course (like Med School in the US): the other has a 6 year course with an intern year after it. Other degrees taking longer than 3 years are Dentistry, Law, Pharmacy, Engineering (and others I can't recall at the moment *g*).

Apprenticeships apply to the trades, such as mechanic, plumber, electrician, carpenter and so on. Most start an apprenticeship after Year 11 or 12, and combine on-the-job training with compulsory theory work at a TAFE College.

What a pleasant way to start my weekend; solitude, (Mr Bookmom took the progeny out for breakfast)tea and toast, and reading this thread.

What constitutes a "first edition?" Is it the very first round of printing? Would one be imprinted "first edition?" I am not a book collector but do have a few older 20th century books. By image googling for a first edition "Animal Farm" I don't think mine is. I have a smallish green cloth Animal Farm with no dust jacket published in 1946 and has included a folded review from the Book-of-the-Month club which was apparently distributed inside the book. My search finds this book widely available.

More interesting is my "Carlisle Old and New" printed in 1907 and is a history of the town of Carlisle, PA (where I grew up) with plenty of pictures. Alibris actually had a few first edition copies of this for sale, as well as copies of a 1970's reprint. A book with a very small market, I am certain.

My mother-in-law, in her late 70's, just left after staying with us for a week. She is a wonderful storyteller who told me about being "campused" while a college student at an elite Baptist college in North Carolina. Her infractions included a messy room and signing in after the curfew. By the time I reached Penn State in the 80's, one might have to visit the disciplinary office and watch a video of a lecture by the disciplinary dean if one had been caught doing something borderline illegal. On the other hand, a friend attending a religious-run school where smoking, dancing and drinking were still strictly taboo while at a party with me, said "Look at me, I'm breaking all the rules at once!" And so she was...

Loved the "lumberjack" reference. Monty Python is once again being run on late-night TV. My nickname was once Mrs Conclusion with the above-mentioned friend being Mrs Premise.

Just to point out that in the U.S. there is always the exception to the "rule", e.g. the College of William and Mary, in Williamsburg, Virginia, does grant higher degrees, the M.A. and the Ph.D.

bookmom, this link will give you some basic collecting info.

>though it is not compulsory in all states.

Really? That surprises me, given how academic kindergarten classes have become now. 5 year olds are expected to learn what 6 year olds used to, and preschool classes are more like the old kindergartens. Very frustrating and sad.

I agree about 6th grade being in between. My best friends daughter really struggled this year, her first year in Jr Hi. She was always a top student in elementary, but the atmosphere, and the amount of support, was so different in Jr Hi that it took her a bit to get used to.

Here is a link that might be useful: collecting books

And Dartmouth College, one of the Ivy League, is also a university in fact but has kept the traditional name.

Preschool is pretty much mandatory hereabouts. And nobody skips Kindergarten. My kids were expected to be reading and reading well before first grade, quite a difference from when I attended back in the late 60's and we were still doing "the cat sat on the mat" in first grade.

Our school system has pushed the curriculum so far down, that kids who haven't had preschool are so far behind that they are strongly encouraged to enroll in a pre-K summer preschool to get them up to speed. The town will help finance this if there's a need. We also have a dedicated reading specialist in the kindergarten to make sure everyone is reading by the time they're done with kindergarten, and this has worked well.

I do agree with cindy, it's very frustrating and sad that so much is being pushed down into the lower grades, but that's a direct result of state and federally mandated testing (don't get me started) often combined with (in this area, anyway) a good number of over-achieving parents who see every elementary school assignment as step towards their child's eventual doctorate at Harvard or Yale.

Back on the book topic, I don't have anything really old, but I have begun to collect OOP books by Richardson Little Wright (his The Gardener's Bed Book is still in print). I've had great luck finding nice circa 1920/1930 copies, but no first editions yet.

Frieda, the English Educational System! My goodness you could write a book about its present shortcomings, genuine complaints from both teachers and parents, money and time wasted, changing Government policies, disaffected pupils. I expect most of you could do the same, so I'll try and keep the info simple.

Formal education starts for 4-5 year olds in the 'reception' class of an Infant School, which may be a separate building or part of a 'Primary' School.
At 7 years they go up to the Junior part of the school where they stay until they are 11.

At this point I know there are a few areas of the country that have 'Middle Schools' which, I think run from age 9 to 13 years.

11+ has always been the big divide for children in the State sector.
These days the norm is for all children to attend the local secondary school, usually a 'Comprehensive', far too often with an indifferent reputation, unless you are lucky enough to live in some leafy suburb of the Home Counties (ie the posher areas outside London).
These take pupils of all abilities. Sometimes the kids are taught in 'sets' or 'streamed' by aptitude, in other places they all muck-in together.

This is all part of an on-going levelling out of society and the egalitarian culture that started in the '60's.

In a few areas of the country at the age of 11, children sit an exam, usually known as the Eleven Plus. The result of that test, plus school recommendations allows some to take a place at a Grammar school, where they will receive what some would consider an 'old fashioned' education. If not considered 'academic' enough they will attend a Secondary Modern school where more practical skills are taught.
As Grammar Schools are gradually being done away with so they have become much more popular and over-subscribed. A number that have been forced to close have reopened as private schools.

Whatever school you attend you are required by law to stay until you are 16, although leaving early is discouraged as there are almost no jobs or apprenticeships for even the keenest young person who is good with their hands and wants a practical career or trade.

Those who stay at school until they are 18 usually go on to a University (the number of places offered grow yearly) and far too many young people are encouraged to spend three years on a 'Media Studies' course . . . or something equally trivial so when they get their degree they have little hope of finding a job and land up working in a 'call centre' or behind a bar.
Of course there are still some excellent Universities that offer the traditional range of subject . . . much as Kath describes above.
I think you must be 18 to attend Uni although Oxford will take you a year earlier

Along side the State system there are private schools some offering scholarships (they are very expensive) and often they have a large intake of 'foreign' (and rich) pupils. They almost always offer a good 'all-round' education.

The old...

>often combined with (in this area, anyway) a good number of over-achieving parents who see every elementary school assignment as step towards their child's eventual doctorate at Harvard or Yale.

Definitely not the motivator here for preschool! So many of our kids come from homes without books (and Im not just talking about low income folks) as well as many kids for whom English is a second language. Getting a foot up in preschool is going to help them tremendously when they start Kindergarten, if for no other reason but to expose them to stories and books! (and to learn some much needed social skills as well...)

> These poor kids were sent to main-stream schools where the staff had no training in their needs, where they upset the lessons and were often bullied by the 'normal' kids.

Many districts tried that here as well. We have a long standing regulation which requires children with special needs to be placed in the 'least restrictive environment'. This doesn't mean mass mainstreaming (which many districts thought it was and thought they could save a heck of a lot of money just tossing all of these kids into regular classes). It does mean placing a child in the most optimal environment for them. There are lots of sides and facets to this law, and many frustrations - especially because the options available depend on where the child lives and how loud their parents will scream to get what they want. But its better than the old system (state institutions which were often just warehouses for life) But the intent of the law was never to make mass mainstreaming the only other option. It was the intent to provide an Individual education for that child as per their needs. Unfortunately too many districts try to get away with doing less.

And to bring this back to topic - they aren't worth much, but one of my favorite finds was a complete set of The New National Readers, published in 1883 by A.S. Barnes and Co. Not only are they fun to read (lots of stories and poems as well as phonics and handwriting lessons) but the line drawn illustrations are exquisite.

I have found the old book that DH bought in London years ago. Obviously some attempt has been made to restore the book, the leather is cracked, but the gold lettering looks fairly new. The title is "Wicked Jesuite Plots" by Henry Foulis with a date of 1674. The sub-title appears to be The History of the Wicked Plots and Conspiracies of our Pretended Saints!

There is a bookplate that says The Hope Trust, 21 Moray Place Edinburgh. The book is in English and dedicated to, "His Loving Brother Sr. David Foulis Baronet of Ingleby Mannor in Cleaveland, in the North Riding of Yorkshires and his Vertuous Confort, the Lady Catherine Foulis". He follows with a letter to his brother & his wife and signs it from Linc.Coll.Oxford 23.April 1662.

There are about 10 pages that were blank that are covered with this old brownish scrawl which is completely undecipherable, so not sure if it a foreign language or when it was written.....sure would like to have someone who knew what they were looking at tell us !

Maybe one day we should try to read it-I see lots of mention of Queen Mary, Duke of Buckingham & even Richard III-maybe it will have a clue about who murdered who as it talks about the murder of the Duke of Orleans and many others but it is a strain to read the 'old english'! Anyone is welcome to come visit and help us decipher the book-who knows we might learn something new about English History!

Pat

Preschool -- oops! I forgot to include it, probably because I still tend to think of it as discretionary. Perhaps I did my sons a disservice by not giving them a headstart in preschool, but at the time (late 1980s) I wasn't much interested in making them superbabies-on-the-road-to-Harvard (not that they would've been "superbaby" material, at any rate). Both did attend elected kindergarten (it wasn't required in Louisiana or Colorado, at the time) and my younger son was in what was called transitional first grade because he needed another year to mature (he was a premature baby and had a developmental lag). I was selfish: I wanted my kids to stay at home with ME for as long as I could keep 'em. Sheesh! Vee, what do the eejits in the government think they're going to accomplishment by placing kids in preschool earlier and getting all the mothers to go back to work sooner? I don't follow this thinking.

Thanks, Kath and Vee. I'm a little clearer about your educational systems.

Kath, are the apprenticeships formal agreements in Australia? There may be such in the US, but it's my impression that most are informal.

Vee, your explanation is clear enough, but the British system just seems so darned complicated! Compared to the French, though, it's a model of lucidity.

Oh, I want to thank you, Ginny, for providing the word Madras. That was the kind of plaid shirts that my oldest brother had to have in college. Come to think of it, my other brother and I also wore Madras when we were in high school and junior high, respectively. It was a different sort of plaid from lumberjack plaids -- the latter were the featured, traditional patterns of long-sleeved, flannel-fabric shirts and wool jackets that were worn only by rustic-types and some sportsmen -- hunters, fishermen, and such -- but NOT collegiates, oh no! Not in the early sixties, anyway. Now my other brother probably did wear lumberjack plaids in the late sixties as part of his "nature-child" garb.

Mary, what was/is a "McMullen" blouse?

Frieda, apprenticeships are very much formal agreements. The apprentices have to do a certain amount of formal study at TAFE, they have to be supervised by a qualified tradesperson, and they have to be paid at award rates.

I was another one who wanted to have my children home with me, but it seems very old fashioned now, as Vee said. Preschool here is mainly in child care centres, which mostly operate from early morning to early evening. Kindergarten is the more formal education, although when my sons went, there wasn't a strict curriculum and the kids weren't expected to actually accomplish anything other than learning to play together and sit quietly for a while.

Vee, I have never quite understood the Upper and Lower system in Britain, despite having read many books by Enid Blyton and others, and having wished to attend boarding school as it sounded so exciting! Do students spend half a year in Lower Fifth and half in Upper etc?

Kath, I come from the 'Upper' and 'Lower' system of classes/forms; which must date me!

Some years ago the State system changed the names of the 'years'. So Year One is for five year olds, Year Seven is when the kids enter secondary school (I suppose similar to 'Grades' in the US) so now the top class is Year 13. I just had to ask the DH for this info. The changes past me by and I could never remember what my children's 'years' were called!

Previously children starting secondary school went in as 'First Years' and carried on up to the 'Sixth Form' at 18.
BUT, many schools especially the old grammer, private and 'Public' schools (are you keeping up here?) called the 11 year olds the Third Form and then carried on with Lower IV, Upper IV . . . to . . .Upper VI (at 18).
Normally (but probably not with Enid Blyton) a pupil would spend a year in a class ie three terms with 1st September being the starting, birthday point.
Kath, you may have read in school stories about the 'Remove' classes. I think the fat school-boy Billy Bunter spent several years in such a form. These were for lazy/ dull kids who were 'removed' from the main classroom to be taught separately.
Lots of jolly japs took place amid howls of pain mingled with the sound of the cane landing on a miscreant's posterior as he got six-of-the-best.

RE Apprenticeships. Up until the 1960's these used to form an important part of a work-related practical training course for young men.
Forms of Indenture were signed between the boy, his parents and the Master builder/plumber/carpenter etc. The lad would learn 'on the job' under his boss and attend technical college on 'day release'.
In our go-getting times there seems no room for this old, hard working but rewarding system. Almost no young men train to be plumbers, bricklayers etc. Too many of them are happy to sell double-glazing or work as shelf-stackers in super-markets.
Many of the old skills and crafts are being lost . . .and yes, I realise there is not much demand for hay-stack thatchers, or grummit-wurdlers these days but horses still have to be shod, stone-walls built and windows glazed.

The site below explains the original meaning of 'indentures' ie the piece of parchment the master/apprentice agreement signed by each party.

Here is a link that might be useful: Indentures

Cindy, thank you for the link which looks to be interesting reading and will spur me to take a second look at some more of my hand-me-down books I've packed away.

On the subject daycare and then the general curricula
"push-down" taking place in elementary schools, I have observations to add. I live a well-educated and prosperous area where government doesn't need to encourage young mothers to return to work--and it does not. On the other hand, at my children's private school, classmates are dropped off at 7:45 am and many remain in aftercare until 6:30 pm when a parent finally picks them up. While I find that an incredibly long day for a child and wonder about priorities for many of the families who clearly don't have a financial need for both parents to work hours like that, I have to add that most of the children in that setting seem to be doing just fine. I guess they are used to it. Ideal or not, I don't know.

I don't have a problem with curriculum push down because my children need it, just like some others their age do, and some "need" other things. I think a weakness in our system (at least at my children's school) is the rigidity of system of determining grade solely by age. My son is very bright (confirmed by testing) but quite immature and has behavioral issues. He does not "fit" into his grade, though to be honest, not sure where he does fit! We will be trying what promises to be a more flexible setting for him next year and BOY am I getting off the subject here!

Pat, most interesting about 'your book' I've had a bit of a search around and can flesh out the bones a little.

The Hope Trust appears to be part of Edinburgh University's School of Divinity and offers research grants for study fellowships. I imagine in days gone by it did more 'hands-on' charitable work and perhaps yout book came from its reading room/library of 'improving works'.

I don't know enough about the 1660's to say which Jesuit Plot the book is about although in those days Jesuits had a reputation similar to Al-Qaeda guerilla extremists of today. English people were terrified of them. There is little doubt that hot-headed young Jesuits trained abroad were willing to sacrifice their lives in order to bring the country back inside the 'Catholic fold'.
Titus Oates was a failed C-of-E vicar and later failed Catholic priest who saw Jesuits lurking in every shadow and his false testimony led to many arrests and executions, but
his plot was later than your book.

The Foulis' were well-known in North Yorkshire. Ingleby Manor, Greenhow is just south of Stockton-on-Tees.
A bit about 'your' Henry in the article below. nb. It was written in the eighteen hundreds so needs an update.
Have a look at the photos of the village church; a most unusual design.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ingleby Yorkshire

Pat, given its age, I wouldn't worry about the condition -the fact that it still exists is amazing to me! And you're like me - my first instinct is to read it, not to get it appraised.

>He follows with a letter to his brother & his wife and signs it from Linc.Coll.Oxford 23.April 1662.

Wow, that is so cool!

>I did my sons a disservice by not giving them a headstart in preschool

No, you didn't. If you are playing and interacting with your children on a regular basis, if you are reading to them and exposing them to print on a daily basis, if you are giving them many different experiences around their neighborhood and community, you did what you are supposed to do as a parent. The comment about a head start is more for parents who either don't know how to do so, or don't see a need to do so.

I was not trying to start a debate on working mothers versus stay at home. As far as I am concerned, it depends on individual circumstances and I would never judge what moms choose to do. The preschool issue for me is more of the academic versus developmentally appropriate one.

Vee-thank you so much! As I said we bought this book at least 20 yrs ago and haven't really taken much time to research it...since DH is though with teaching til August-maybe this will jump start him to do more research this summer!

Pat

Cindy, my aggrieved tone was aimed at the notion of the government imposing ever earlier on parents in their children's education. Compulsory education starting at age six seems fairly reasonable, at age five doesn't bother me that much, but the gradual creeping down, as Sheri described so well, gives me...well, the creeps. There probably, or surely, are parents who need to be prodded to provide their children with educational experiences, but I'm not sure that I like the idea of the government doing the prodding. This year your kid has to be in school at age 5, next year it's age 4, then age 3, age 2, and eventually 18 months. Yes, I'm most likely stretching things to the extreme, but who is making the parenting decisions? The government. Bleh!

And then there's the problem of parents feeling pressured to conform and have their children conform to standards that may work well for some but blight others, as bookmom noted about the rigidity of age slotting. I don't know whether to feel sorry for parents who are so anxious to have their kids enrolled in the proper pre-pre-preschool or think they are pretentious, in the worse way possible, in my opinion: through their children.

I was a substitute teacher for several years -- got accreditation and everything -- and wound up being the permanent substitute for one class for almost the whole year. I thought I would enjoy teaching -- and I actually did sometimes -- but oh boy! it was also disillusioning. All the teachers out there already know all about that phenomenon, I'm sure; but the last vestiges of my idealism went with the job, I'm sorry to say. As Vee said above, there sure is a lot to complain about re the state of education. And I'm sorry that I got off on this bleak note, especially when it doesn't have a thing to do with Illuminated Manuscripts, Incunabula and First Editions. :-/

Frieda stop apologising! I find threads that wander in and out so much more rewarding than "What did you read, did you enjoy it" "Yes/No"
With such a range of interests, talents, knowledge among Rp'ers from so many countries it would be a waste not to put them to good use.
If others don't approve they can always click onto another thread.

Re the education thing. I tend to forget that in the US nearly everything is controlled at State not Federal level, whereas in the much smaller UK the Govt, in the form of the Dept of Education has the overall say in what goes on . . . although not to the same extent as in France where we are always told that the French Minister of Ed. can look at his watch and say "10.30, and every 14 year old is on page 37 of his geometry book." Nor, on the other hand over here, can parents demand that a school stops teaching some aspect of a subject because they don't agree with it; especially on dubious 'religious' grounds.

Re. Pre school stuff. Is it the same in the US, Aus that certain 'Middle Class' (or as Tony Blair would have us say 'Middle England' class having become a no-no word) families are spending small fortunes on after school activities . . .from extra maths to violin/ballet/drama? It is said these poor children are shunted about after normal lessons and some never have time to play or even watch TV.
I realise there are plenty of other kids who spend most of their waking hours staring at 'Telly' pigging-out on fast food etc. I read in today's paper that children in the UK are going to be weighed on entering school at 4 and again at 10 years and that 'school lunches' must contain vitamins, healthy choices and so on . . . the parents being too stupid, inept to provide 'proper' meals . . .as many of them seem to be. They, of course, will be the very parents who give permission for their kids to leave school during the lunch break!

This always blew my mind. In my daughter's private, half-day, morning kindergarten class, at a preschool with a "rigorous" academic reputation and a waiting list (anyone laughing yet?) some children were actually picked up by bus at lunchtime and taken to the local public school where they then attended afternoon kindergarten. These children had special permission to eat their lunch on the bus on the 10 minute ride over to the school or else they would miss lunch entirely. One of these children was also cramming in karate, tennis,swimming and French.

Most of the families I know are pretty reasonable in terms of extra activities. Playing a sport each season is a given for many and often children add playing an instrument, scouting or a drama activity. My own daughter has, at times, been overscheduled because she loves to try everything but we've been more watchful because we realized it was too much, even if she didn't think so. It can be easy to overschedule because there are so many fun programs available for children now. I think when I was in elementary school, one could play an instrument, be in scouts or possibly take a sports class like gymnastics or swmimming at the "Y." A change I find troubling, however, is that most activities for children, bar scouting, have become so competitive with a strong emphasis on winning and/or being the best to the exclusion of having fun.

I collect old gardening books and once years ago went to an antiquarian book fair. I was perusing the garden section and an elderly woman approached me and said that she noticed I had been there quite a while and wondered if I collected old books having to do with plants,horticulture etc. I told her yes and she said that she had a large collection and needed to get rid of them but wanted someone to have them who really appreciated the authors and their works. So the upshot was that she sent me a list of what she had and I bought many of them for almost nothing. Richardson Wright is a well known author from the 20s who wrote several gardening books years ago and there tucked in the box were his books and a couple of them were first editions. I thought I had died and gone to heaven.

Oh, mwoods, lucky you! I discovered both Richardson Wright and Beverley Nichols last year, and I've since been hunting their down their gardening books. Nichols' books can be had in lovely hardback reprints from Timber Press, but Wright remains pretty obscure and mostly OOP today.

What a wonderful gift for one book lover to seek out another book lover to pass her books on to (if that makes any grammatical sense at all)!

I love stories like that. I so understand the lady. This may sound morbid, but sometimes I wonder what will happen to my books when I am gone. Some are truly special. I'd want them to go to someone who indeed would appreciate them as I do, someone who would see their intrinsic value over the price they might get for them.

Then again, they might be boxed for a yard sale, and some lady might come by and feel like she opened a treasure box, just like I have sometimes!

Frieda, I almost forgot to answer your question re the McMullen blouse. As part of the "Preppy" uniform, it had a uniquely curved collar (not a Peter Pan collar) and had straight "camp" sleeves, with tiny flowers that resembled the Liberty of London prints, covering the entire blouse. I had never heard of it in my native Atlanta, but when I went to college in Virginia, it was part of the "must have" unofficial uniform, along with Pappagallo shoes and Madras and London Fog trenchcoats. I seem to recall some bad jokes about the circle pins.....

Oh, Mary, do tell, if possible! I love a bad joke. :-) I guess I don't remember the McMullen blouse, if I ever knew about it in the first place. Fashions and fads are some of my favorite cultural markers. When I was in grade school, my young aunt was in high school and college (this was mid- to late-1950s). I thought she was the most glamorous creature with her matching cashmere sweater sets (it was really cool to wear the cardigan alone, backwards with the buttons up the spine -- she always needed help to do the buttoning properly) and the strapless formals that were just about the most frou-frou confections since the bustles of the 1870s. The bad-girl look of my aunt's 1950s-era was the tight sweater over the bullet bra and the straight skirt with slits -- the virgins wore the full, gathered skirts with lots of crinolines (incongruously called cancans).
A change I find troubling, however, is that most activities for children, bar scouting, have become so competitive with a strong emphasis on winning and/or being the best to the exclusion of having fun.Bookmom, that bothers me a lot, too. It's been more than a decade but I recall vividly being in a restaurant where the family at the next table were eating with downcast eyes as they listened to the father berate a seven- or eight-year-old boy in a Little League uniform. The boy, apparently, had shown bad form at bat and was struck out. The little boy was in tears, which only seemed to further rile the father. As this was going on, the waiter brought a tray of drinks, one of which he somehow managed to knock over (I wondered if it wasn't deliberate of the waiter). This took the father's attention away from the kid, and I was relieved, but I have little doubt the rebuke continued afterwards. I've witnessed other examples, too, and it's no wonder that kids develop the wrong ideas about what sport really means.

I have it written into my will that my only niece will get all of my books, to dispose of or keep at her discretion. My sons aren't interested in my books, at least not presently. If they happen to marry booklovers, though, I may make other arrangements.

Yes, Woodnymph, I had a circle pin after I was married and got quite a few comments about it.

I paid $1.00 for my old book, The Shepherd of the Hills by Harold Bell Wright with illustrations by F. Graham Cootes, at a family estate sale. It gives a copyright date of 1907 in the front and says "Published September, 1907." I thought I had made a clever buy but found that there are a zillion copies available. It is in very good condition, and the bookshop owner who looked at it for me said it might bring $10. In it, though, were two postcards with postmarks that I can't make out. They have 1 cent stamps on them and very pretty handwriting. One has a picture of a young couple rowing on a lake and the other of the Masonic Temple in Bloomington, Illinois. That one says the writer is not going to school that summer but is saving herself for San Francisco in 1915. I don't know who either of the senders was but did know the recipient who was the aunt of my aunt-by-marriage.

When my daughter was young, we did manage to acquire a complete set of The Little Colonel series, some of them from a private owner who lived in Peewee Valley, the setting of the books. The books themselves are not all of the same set, but some of them are the oldest edition. They are not in good shape, but she is proud of them and keeps them carefully on her bookshelves.

I feel like Methuselah on this forum. My mother was a primary school teacher in one-room schools at the beginning of her career. In them, classes ran Grades 1, 2, 3, and 4 every year with 5 and 7 offered one year and 6 and 8 offered in the alternate years. If you started at age 6, you went straight through, but if you started at 5 or 7, you either had to repeat, go ahead and drop back to pick up the year you missed, or skip it and go ahead. Since I was the oldest child, my mother taught me to read at 4 and took me with her to attend first grade at 5, meaning I had to either repeat 4th grade or go to 6th. I did go on and never had 5th grade, which may explain why math was always my poorest subject since that was the year that long division and common fractions were introduced.

At any rate, that meant that since my birthday is in July, I graduated from high school at 15, starting college in the fall of 1952. We had the suite-type dorm mentioned above, and my roommate was my best friend from high school (and still is). We had the rules about signing in and out, curfews with later nights on weekends, no one smoked, boys couldn't step foot outside the living room of the dorm. We did our personal laundry in the bathroom sink, but there were ironing facilities in the basement. Housekeeping gave out one clean sheet every week, and you were to put your top sheet on the bottom and the clean sheet on the top each time, taking the other one back to be laundered. We wore stockings and hats and gloves to church and formals to the dances held in the gym. It was certainly another world to...

Yeah, 1907 isn't all that old in terms of book collecting, unless its a first, in mint condition, with a popular title.

My dad was in England during WWII, and he was visiting some relatives. Somehow he acquired the siddur (prayer book) of a cousin for his Bar Mitzvah. Inside is the name of the cousin, date of the ceremony, and who presented it. Inside is a telegram that was written to him, with an address. I was hoping I could find him, and have done lots of different searches, with no luck. I though that would be so cool for him to get this book back. In the meantime, I'll keep it safe.

frieda, I am constantly amazed and disgusted at how some parents treat their children - in public! Can you imagine what must go on at home? Dear lord....

I agree about the over scheduling. My best friends girl has something every night, and the weekends are just packed. Shes also an A student, and spends lots of time on homework. I wonder sometimes if she ever gets a chance to just be by herself, or be quiet with nothing to do but think. My parents couldn't afford for me to go to extras. So I played with other neighborhood kids, or read. I don't think it hurt me any not to have all that. I think if a kid has a specific talent, or a specific interest, an extra is just great. But not every day, not at the expense of his well being, and not at the expense of school. (oh, btw, I am not a parent, I just play one at school, so take my rant with a shaker of salt!)

Carolyn, one of my roommates in college got a scholarship because she was valedictorian of her high school class -- all valedictorians in Texas schools were awarded scholarships, at the time (1970). Now, that's not unusual except...she was the only person in her class. She went to a one-room school that went all the way through grade 12. I can't remember if it was the last one-room school in Texas or just one of the last. The main reason it was still open was that the kids who attended would otherwise had to have made a 180-mile round trip every day to attend the closest consolidated school or roomed with someone who lived closer to the school, which the parents couldn't afford. If I remember correctly, there were nine kids, so not every grade was represented in a given year. They must have had an excellent teacher, because Debbie's study habits put mine to shame and she deserved every bit of her scholarship.

I've been fascinated with one-room schools ever since Debbie invited me to stay a weekend with her family. She gave me the grand tour: the gas station, the caliche pits, the playa lake, the abandoned gas camp, and the schoolhouse. I met the extraordinary Miss Fleisch, too, the teacher who had taught in one-room schools her whole career, starting in the 1930s. She fascinated me so much that afterward I loved every story I read about teaching in one-room schools, including Max Braithwaite's Why Shoot the Teacher? and Hannah Breece's A Schoolteacher in Old Alaska. I didn't read Laura Ingalls Wilder's books until I was 47 years old -- I'm not sure why except that I might have thought they were set too close to where I grew up myself and therefore couldn't possibly be very interesting, but I was enchanted when I did read them. I bet you can guess which was my favorite -- The Long Winter, the one where Laura taught in the one-room schoolhouse. Do you know of other books, fiction or nonfiction, featuring one-room or country schools?

Frieda, I didn't come across Laura I W's books until my daughter borrowed them from school; I don't know when they were first published in England. I find them wonderfully evocative of that era of westward expension in the US (which I suppose didn't last so long. 30-40 years, or less?).
Her story Farmer's Boy gives a wonderful description of life in a rural school in up state New York, although murdering a teacher may seem rather grim . . . to parents!
I also enjoyed the details of the mountains of food the family got through.
In the UK the best known 'school' writer is 'Miss Read'. Her Village School came out in 1960-ish and gives a most accurate account of country life during the '50's. Her later books (I think she is still alive) have become rather rambling and sentimental.
There are almost no 'one room' schools in the UK,; I attended a 'two-roomer' when I was a child. How a teacher was able to divide her time between small groups of children from 6-11 years is amazing.
Of course classrooms were much quieter places in the '40's and 50's, heads were generally kept down and at least you appeared to be working.
Our small groups sat at desks facing different blackboards so the teacher had to dash round writing 'sums' on one board, English questions on another. We all worked together for nature study, scripture, music/singing, art/craft/sewing . . even the boys did that, and poetry reading (all learnt by 'listening') story time etc.
The main thing against the one teacher system seems to be if that person had a weakness in a particular area.
Luckily we all seemed to handle basic arithmetic fine . . .it was later with algebra, trig. etc that I knew true fear . . . but our teacher let us down badly with teaching reading. If you had not learnt at home it was too easy to flounder or be overlooked. My parents never spent much time with my two brother and me so we could not read until about 8-9 and still none of us can spell!
To think parent-teacher meetings were non-existent! The only day my Mother entered the building was on my first morning when she carried my shoe-bag (made out of the leg of an old pair of Dad's grey 'flannels') found my peg and left.
Parents never questioned anything that went on inside the classroom. How different from today.

Good Morning Teacher Daisy and Teacher Daisy, Golden Memories of 51 Years of Teaching by Dr. Daisy Spangler, who, after years in public and collegiate education, became a teacher in one room Amish schools. I interviewed her for a magazine article once, after she had finally really retired, and she was fascinating. She gave me a signed copy of one of her books, which is still available in parts of PA, but I don't know about anywhere else.

I hardly have any books at all, let alone old books. I love the idea of rows and rows of books in a home library, but I rarely reread books, so the expense is hard for me to justify.

School here in Quebec is a bit different from the system in place in the rest of Canada.
Kindergarten is not compulsory, but AFAIK, everyone goes.
Elementary school is grades 1 to 6.
Secondary school is grade 7 to 11.
CEGEP is either 2 years of university preparation, or 3 years of a technical program.
University is 3 years.

As for preschool, only stay at home moms send their kids there, the rest go to daycare. But preschool is very minimal, 10 hours a week over 4 days.

I do not enroll my daughters in any extracurricular activity that takes place on the weekends. For me, that is strictly family time. I'm not very sporty either, so I don't place a high priority on that sort of thing. We prefer attending free cultural activities around town than shuttling our kids to programmed activities. I tend to subscribe to the view that I would prefer my kids to be parent-oriented rather than peer-oriented, so I encourage my daughters to spend more time together, and have friendships that include both of them in the same circle, especially if we are friends with the parents. I have many friends who come from out of town or from small families, so we are a bit like an extended family, going on vacations together and socialising together as families. I think that the more kids are given over to the same sex, same age exclusive friendships, the higher the pull of peer pressure, and I'd rather they be detached from that.

"The Year of Miss Agnes" by Kirkpatrick Hill is a children's novel. In 1948, Miss Agnes comes from England to teach in a one room schoolhouse in a native village in what becomes Alaska.

Frieda, Carolyn gave away the circle pin joke :-D.

I've been fascinated by one room school houses, too, espec. since my late husband attended one in upper New York state. He spoke fondly of the exceedingly young teacher, barely 20, having to manage pupils of ALL ages and learning levels through almost 4 seasons. As well, he spoke of the "chores" the students rotated amongst themselves, in terms of keeping the wood burning stove going in those cold winters, sweeping, etc. I'm certain they used "out houses" as it was in deep country. He walked several miles daily to and from the one room school, rain or shine, snow or sleet, which I find amazing, walker that I am.

As for overscheduling of US kids' activities: I have 2 friends with 3 and 4 children who have done just that, IMO. The youngest girl has a grueling schedule of soccer, ballet classes and performances, camp, creative writing and art projects, as well as must study to prepare for college entry. It's been the same with all, both the girls and the boys.Often they are exhausted and don't get to bed until past midnight and have dark circles under their eyes. Couple that with learning how to drive and you have accidents waiting to happen, IMO.

My other friend, with 3 kids, joked that her bottom is now shaped like a car seat as she was virtually living in her car, driving the kids to their various and sundry activities. Neither mother works outside the home.

Frieda, the only one-room-school book I can think of is Caddie Woodlawn by Carol Ryrie Brink. You are probably familiar with it. It was a Newberry Prize book and one I treasured as a child. The setting is the Wisconsin frontier.

It has been interesting to read everyone's comments on extracurricular activities. I have a six year old and a three year old, and I work full-time, so I often feel like I'm the only mom on the planet who doesn't have her kids signed up for everything under the sun. I don't know how working or stay at home parents keep up with all those activities. At this point, I enjoy letting them be kids. We did have one incident at daycare a few years ago when my oldest was four years old. They were having puzzle races (so in other words, the kid who put his puzzle together the fastest got a prize). I had to complain because my daughter came home with stories about kids being called losers. I was a bit appalled that they would foster this kind of competition with four year olds who aren't mature enough to handle the concepts of winners and losers.