The Comforts of Madness by Paul Sayer, a former psychiatric nurse, is the interior monologue of a catatonic patient. The narrator is too rational to be believeable, but it's still an interesting book.

Like books with disabled characters, characters with mental illness got the short shrif for years on literature. In the last fourty years or so, some quite excellent books have been written with characters that are real, complex, people in their own right that happen to have mental illness. These I think do indeed help people learn more about it, or at least understand about the people who suffer from it. A few I have read in this category:

>Lisa Bright and Dark (young schizophreic girl)

>Punch goes the Judy (brother tries to help his suicidal sister)

>I Never Promised you a Rose Garden (another girl with schizophrenia and her road back. Amazing book, reread it as an adult and it still moved me.)

>The Cracker Factory (mother with alcoholism placed in an institution)

> One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (actually read it before the movie)

>Tell Me that you love me Junie Moon (three patients from a mental institution room together after they are released)

>Set this House in Order (two characters with split personalities)

I'd recommend any of these (a few might be out of print, and the first two are YA books)

I had forgotten about Tell Me That You Love Me, Junie Moon until you mentioned it, Cindy. I don't remember the details of it, but I do recall it was touching.

Interesting questions, kathy.

Some more fiction dealing with mental illness:

The Yellow Wallpaper - Charlotte Perkins Gilman
The Bell Jar - Sylvia Plath (written as fiction but obviously autobiographical)
The Virgin Suicides - Jeffrey Eugenides
Wide Sargasso Sea (the prequel to Jane Eyre) - Jean Rhys

I think mental illness must be rather commonly used in fiction, though probably not always overtly stated as such.

What about Crime and Punishment? Raskolnikov was very warped.
Hmm, that guy that thought he was turning into an insect -- what story was that? Kafka, maybe.
Heathcliff had to have been mentally ill, I think.

I'm not at all sure that most fiction deals realistically with mental illness; perhaps just concentrating on it tends to sensationalize certain aspects -- you know, to make it more interesting. Whether fiction could help a reader to tolerate and cope with mental illness...I don't know -- hmm, maybe. I can see where nonfiction could help -- gaining knowledge and such, objectively. Fiction, though, might be the spur to interest and send the reader in search of more objective sources.

The story you're thinking about re. turning into an insect is Metamorphosis by Kafka. My understanding is that it's not a story about mental illness - it really happens to the man. It's an allegory about how people deal with sickness or people who are different. So in some ways, it could relate to how people with mental illness are treated by society in general, I suppose...

How broad are you painting the description "mental illness"? Are you including things like autism and such-like? The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time by Mark Haddon is a marvellous first-person book, where the narrator has Asperger's syndrome. The Guardian has an interesting review of the book by a young man who actually has Asperger's - it seems that Mark Haddon "got" it really quite well.

Here is a link that might be useful: Review of Curious Incident by William Schofield

Clare Dudman's novel 98 Reasons for Being is about Dr Heinrich Hoffmann and the treatments offered to his patients at an asylum in 1850s Frankfurt. Those 98 reasons for being are his patients at the asylum. This is an interesting look at the treatments offered to patients (and society's outcasts) at that particular time, and should be viewed within the context of that time and not ours. Dudman has so far written fictional treatments of historical figures, and did a lot of research for this one. I personally love her books, which tend to be rather poetic, introspective explorations.

Here is a link that might be useful: 98 Reasons for Being

>How broad are you painting the description "mental illness"?

Good question, Martin. I don't really know. I considered listing The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time in my opening post, but wasn't sure if it would "count." It's a fascinating book and I'm pleased to hear that the author "got it right."

Rethinking my original question, I realize that it might be unanswerable - or certainly dependent on the individual book and the knowledge level of the reader. I suppose my own lack of knowledge about mental illness caused me to ask it. As I've read these books, I've wondered how true to life they are, not having a good basis to judge.

Perhaps we should just tell each other about books we've read that involve mental illness and include some commentary. I does seem to me that mental illness is more prevalent among fictional characters than among the general public.

what about a book that describes as a person, who is not mentally ill , but maybe a little weird, is
treated?
IÂm making reference to Janet Frame book Angel at My Table
In original was made up of three books; I donÂt remember the titles and I think they are out of print at
the moment.
In the second one, she depicts her life while she was placed in a psychiatric institution, under the
generic diagnosis of schizophrenia, I think in the fifties, everybody with bizarre point of views or
bizarre behaviors, used to be pegged as schizophrenic, she underwent to, more or less, two hundred
electroshock treatments, in about eigth years, each of one, was aspected like a death sentences, more
or less her words. It's a wonder that she hadn't serious brain njuries, I think.
Plus, she was about to be lobotomized, but just a few days early, an institution gave her a prize for a
book that she had written, so she was released.

From these three books Jane Campion drawn out her first movie. Angel at my table.
I remember at the Venice film festival in 1990, when the speaker said, that the film won the silver
Lion, and so it was not going to win the golden one, the audience stood up immediately, and kept
clapping for more than ten minutes without rest, to make well understand to the jury, that they made a
very big, big, big mistake

grelobe

Here is a link that might be useful: Angel at My Table

grelobe, I remember reading the first Janet Frame book several years ago. I believe it was later shown that she did not have a mental illness; after all the years of suffering it just seemed once she got into the system she couldn't get out.
Kathy The Curious Incident, a book I surprised myself by enjoying, is not about 'mental illness' but 'mental handicap' . . this is how we would described the condition in the UK but it may be different in the US. Without wanting to 'nit-pick' there is quite a difference between the two conditions.

Personally I don't think I would chose to read fiction about people with a mental illness and I wonder how anyone suffering from some 'condition' could feel happy about it either. Somehow it smacks of voyeurism when looking into the unhappy worlds/minds of these sad people and I really wonder if people claiming to read these books are motivated by wanting to see what causes them to tick/think/act. Much in the same way as I might mistrust the motives of those who say they only read the work of the Marquis de Sade to understand sexual pervertion or who forced themselves to read Lolita to study the mind of a paedophile. If I really needed this information I think I would try and find a sympathetic text book.
Sorry if it sounds a bit strong, I can't think of another way to put it!

Halfway House by Katherine Noel is a newer fiction book dealing with, as I recall, a teen with bi-polar (what used to be known as manic depression) and examines the impact the illness has on both the teen and her family. A non-fiction book by Kay Redfield Jamison, An Unquiet Mind chronicles Jamison's own bi-polar illness. Jamison is a professor at Johns Hopkins here in Baltimore, at least she used to be.

While I don't want to say I "enjoyed" either of these books, I thought both of them were interesting and valuable reading. Unfortunately, mental illness still comes with a stigma attached and I feel that a book, whether fiction or non-fiction, which can serve to educate others about mental illnesses is good. Sometimes, mental illness is somewhat romanticized as if the person is just an independent thinker, or has an artistic temperament--or the person is written off as broken in some way. Unfortunately, in reality mental illness is often quite messy with far-reaching ramifications for the sufferer and family, drugs which can help have side effects and the illness can be chronic. I think each of the books I mentioned did a good job of presenting symptoms and behaviors caused by the mental illness as well as showing that life, indeed, goes on anyway. I didn't mean to hop up on the soapbox, but I think I did.

Vee, I do agree with you about sexual perversions (oh, what a prudish American I am, despised Lolita) and don't understand those who like to read "true crime" books, or even fictional crime series which describe horrid death scenes and other ick. I think there is a difference between a book which can educate and one appealing to voyeurs.

Abigail Padgett has written a series of mysteries whose protagonist Bo Bradley is a social worker with bipolar disorder. These books go a long way in describing the experience of a person functioning well in spite of a difficult illness. The description of Bo seems realistic to me tho since I'm not bipolar, I don't know for sure. I enjoyed the mysteries and the way the author used humor as well.

Zombie - by Joyce Carlo Oates was a disturbing first person account of a psychotic serial killer. Probably not what you would read if you wanted an insight into mental illness. That being said, I did find the narrator to be quite believable. It has been a long time but I think I remember being dissatisfied with the ending.

Barly

Kathy, we did a play adaptation of Junie Moon in HS, and its stayed with me ever since. Reading it much later I realized how much it is still so pertinent now, how we treat anyone who is different, in looks or actions, and assume anyone different is somehow crazy.

>The Yellow Wallpaper - Charlotte Perkins Gilman
The Bell Jar - Sylvia Plath

Oh yes! Incredible works.

Maggie O'Farrell, one of my fav current Brit authors, wrote a book called The Vanishing Act of Esme Lennox. Its about a woman who discoveres that her grand aunt was put into an institution by her family at the age of 18 - and is now 80. Some of the book doesn't fit because it probably should be set in the 60s, not the 90s. But its a riviting look at how easy it used to be to drop someone into an asylum for little reason, and how easy it was to forget they were there, as well as the conditions these patients had to endure.

>what about a book that describes as a person, who is not mentally ill , but maybe a little weird, is
treated?

One button of mine that gets pushed frequently is in the media. Some horrible crime is committed, and some idiot is interviewed saying 'I thought he was a little odd, always kept to himself'. . Or they say 'oh he was so quiet'. Quiet, introverted, doesn't mean crazy or odd (tho it can) I find that 'odd' characters are often the perpetrators of a crime in books, which probably lends to this idea.

>but 'mental handicap' . . this is how we would described the condition in the UK but it may be different in the US.

Its the same. People with autism or mental retardation have a disability; while some have a mental illness on top of it, they are not the same. However, for the purpose of this thread, that could be an interesting question - how are people with disabilities in general treated in literature?

> I don't think I would chose to read fiction about people with a mental illness and I wonder how anyone suffering from some 'condition' could feel happy about it either

I think it depends totally on how its presented. Some are horrible; others are quite complex and moving especially if the character is a person in his own right who just happens to have a mental illness. And btw, I suspect you have read books with mentally ill characters but didn't see them as such. I do agree with you about sexual deviancy (tho might ask what you consider perversions), or true crime novels. I just can't read those.

kathy-back to your question about understanding tolerating and coping-About 10 years ago, I read "Dinner at the Homesick Restaurant" by Anne Tyler. The description of the unpredictable abusive outbursts of the mother in the story were so close to those of my own mother who was eventually diagnosed with mental illness, it was painful. However, since the author also showed some of the mother's perspective, I felt it helped me gain some understanding. It was also helpful to me to see how this woman's children grew up and coped,even though it was fictional. There's hope that such difficult life circumstances can be overcome.

> I does seem to me that mental illness is more prevalent among fictional characters than among the general public.

It probably depends on what you define mental illness as, but I think that ratio would be the opposite. The NIMH (national institute on mental health) says the following:

>Mental disorders are common in the United States and internationally. An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older  about one in four adults  suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.1 When applied to the 2004 U.S. Census residential population estimate for ages 18 and older, this figure translates to 57.7 million people.2Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much smaller proportion  about 6 percent, or 1 in 17  who suffer from a serious mental illness.1 In addition, mental disorders are the leading cause of disability in the U.S. and Canada for ages 15-44.3 Many people suffer from more than one mental disorder at a given time. Nearly half (45 percent) of those with any mental disorder meet criteria for 2 or more disorders, with severity strongly related to comorbidity.1

This site btw has definitions of mental illness as defined by the APA (American Psychiatric Association),

smallcoffee, I remember that one, but it was reading another book (title long forgotten) where the father was considered bi polar that brought it up front. His actions were so much like my fathers, that I realized that my dad had an illness, one that he couldn't control (esp back then; this was in the days that people just took care of their own problems), and it did give me a better understanding. If nothing else, that book, and others like it, taught me that those actions were not about me, they weren't my fault. My relationship with him didn't change, but my reactions to his abuse did.

Here is a link that might be useful: NIMH definitions

I Know This Much Is True is not only a good insight into the character with mental illnes but into the brother who is enmeshed with him. My 2 bachelor brothers are so much like these two; I had to put the book down several times to just bawl.

And I think Lamb's depiction of Dolores in She's Come Undone is the most amazing female character, sane or crazy, ever created by a man!

Mrs Dalloway (Septimus Smith) by Woolf
Don Quixote by Cervantes
Franny and Zooey by Salinger
Birdy by William Wharton
The Hours by Michael Cunningham
Surrender by Sonya Hartnett
Morgan's Passing by Anne Tyler
Ordinary People by Judith Guest

smallcoffee - I loved Dinner at the Homesick Restaurant. I appreciate learning that Anne Tyler "got it right" also.

granjan - I have a friend who's brother suffers from schizophrenia and she expressed sentiments similar to yours about I Know This Much is True.

There is definitely some confirmation here that the depiction of mental illness in fiction can be educational and helpful. Of course, the other side of the coin is that fiction can do any disease a disservice if it's not described accurately or with compassion.

BTW, I was reading through that link above some more - actually it looks at the numbers of people suffering the illness rather than the definitions themselves. But I was also surprised that they do list autism as a mental illness. So I stand corrected (tho in educational terms, its not)

I hated Shes Come Undone. It was the first of many books about victims of abuse, and this was not a well done one. Like Fall on your Knees, I felt icky after reading it. However - I did read his second one and agree - he does get the illness right, as well as what it does to family.

BTW, the movie Bennie and Joon, is similar; deals with a brother taking care of her schizophrenic sister. The sacrifices he makes in his own life for her is so on target. Johnny Depp is also in it. Excellent movie, one of the best I've seen depicting mental illness and its affect on the family.

Renaissance dramatists were particularly interested in mental illness. Middleton and Rowley's The Changeling is set in an asylum and one of the characters feigns madness to seduce the wife of the warden/doctor who runs the place.

King Lear goes mad and Edgar pretends to be.

And then there is this chap named Hamlet who may have been insane or may have been faking...

Russ

I've only been skimming this thread but just finished Thomas Cook's latest book The Cloud of Unknowing in which mental illness is key to the plot.
small coffee-oh my gosh I LOVED all of A. Padgett's books! I haven't seen any by her in several years and have been disappointed to see her "drop off the map".

Pam53 - I've not heard of The Cloud of Unknowing. Is it worthwhile?

Dostoevky's Notes from Underground
Strindberg's Inferno

Kathy t listed Pat Conroy's Prince of Tides as a good example. In that case, the mental illness of the main character's sister was truly tragic throughout. In Conroy's last book, Beach Music, the youngest brother was the one suffering from serious mental illness which also was tragic, but Conroy used this circumstance to add a kind of macabre humor to the story in places.

Actually, the entire book is based on the affects of the narrator's wife's suicide due to a mental imbalance apparently stemming from her parents' gruesomely disturbing past.

Disputantum, you are correct in assuming that the narrator is too rational to be believed. The "interior dialogue" of a catatonic patient?? There is no interior dialogue, that's what it means to be catatonic....mentally comatose. I know I've been there.

Veen - I understand your viewpoint but there is such a stigma connected with mental illness that anything that can educate people as to the realities is a good thing in my book. Now, whether authors of fiction can get it right, that's questionable. I speak out at every opportunity because if we remove the stigma, people who really need help will get help without being fearful or ashamed.

I remember that the mental health professionals were quite aware that they could study for 100 years and never really "know" what it was to be mentally ill. They would always be on the outside looking in, as would the novelists.

kathy-I think Thomas Cook's books are all excellent. The Cloud of Unknowing was definitely worth reading although I would get it from the library if you buy lots of books. I don't think it's a book I would necessarily keep.

I was reminded of "Silent Snow, Secret Snow" by Conrad Aiken recently. I have it around here somewhere, but I can't find it. I just remember the boy retreating into his mental world dominated by snow.

Suzanne, yes, Sayer's book didn't seem anything like the few personnal accounts I've read. I conjecture that it was literary necessity that caused him to make his narrator so aware. As someone who worked with catatonic patients, he probably knew it was unrealistic.

This is a topic I was interested in reading more about, acutally. I am currently reading "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" (I've never seen the movie) and it's going pretty well so far.

I am a fan of Shirley Jackson (best known for her short story "The Lottery") and found out she wrote a novel called "Hangsaman" about a girl with mental illness. I can't find the book anywhere... other than at the local university(it's not due back until July!) so I may have my SO check it out at some point.

The next book that came up in my search was "The Bell Jar" and I have wanted to read that, so maybe that's next.

As for the realistic nature of the portrayal of mental illness... I'm not sure, to some extent this subject tends to be auotbiographical and so as far as you can trust personal experience it's accurate.

When I think though of Bertha in "Jane Eyre" I'd like to think that that is a totally inaccurate portrayal of a person with mental illness. Bertha is a described as a monster and as inhuman, two things mentally ill people are generally not and it would not be PC to describe them as such currently.

They could be inhuman and monstruous if thats how they were treated - and the mentally ill in those days were treated as she was. Reminds me of a major theme in Frankenstien - how the monster was treated influenced how he acted.

Bell Jar shook me up in college. I read it years later and its still a powerful memoir.

Bee Season by Myla Goldberg is what our book group is reading this month. SPOILER ALERT!!! IMO, this is a well written and engaging book about a little girl who is considered an 'underachiever' until she begins winning spelling bees. But it is also a story about the unidentified and undiagnosed mental illness of her mother. 'Mom' is able to function well in society, in fact, she is a brilliant woman and a successful professional. But as the book ends, we find out how ill she truly is.
It made me realize how we might excuse some behaviors in family members, or call them 'eccentricities', when we actually should be concerned about them for health reasons.