Posted by foodonastump "So couldn't this "potential difference for more energy to transfer" have an effect on not just the braising liquid, but also on the meat that's in the vessel? Or was America's Test Kitchen completely dillusional when they experimented with cooking pot roast in a dutch oven, in an oven at various temperatures and found: "We then tested higher temperatures to reduce the cooking time. Heat levels at above 350 degrees boiled the meat to a stringy, dry texture because the exterior of the roast overcooked before the interior was cooked and tender. The magic temperature turned out to be 300 degrees - enough heat to keep the meat at a low simmer while high enough to shave a few more minutes off the cooking time." Excellent questions. First, It seems to me that we can all accept that: 1. To the meat in the liquid inside the vessel, it makes no difference where the 212F heat comes from. By the very definition of thermal energy, there is no difference between heat from the oven, stove, coal, candle, -------. 2. However, to the meat, how long the meat stays in the 212F will make a difference. To tenderize the meat, it is important to cook it long, in the ATK experiment, as they stated, they cook the meat at 350 but shorter time, therefore some of the meat is tougher. "By the way, the oven cooking time for their pot roast is 3.5-4 hours after the liquid comes to a simmer, stove top. And yes, with an internal temperature of 210 degrees they themselves called the roast "overcooked", in quotes. In other words it was a desirable result in this case. Again, unless they're dilussional, it sure sounds to me like there's 212, and then there's 212. And that generations of cooks weren't wrong. " I don't think that generation of cooks were wrong. Cooking with a covered Dutch oven inside an oven will produce wonderful results. Whether that will have more delicious end results than doing it with the Dutch oven on the stove top is my question. "Last note - you asked why do it in the oven rather than stove-top. ATK found what LindaC mentioned above: "After a few rounds of stovetop cooking, we felt that it was too difficult to maintain a steady, low temperature, so we began pot-roasting in the oven, starting out at 250 degrees. This method required no supervision, just a turn of the meat every 30 to 40 minutes to ensure even cooking." I can understand that. For the purpose of the repeatability of the experiment, as in any experiment, it is important to maintain recordable and verifiable environmental conditions, and that is much easier done in an oven which has a limiting thermostat. There is no practical way to do that on the stove top. However, I am not sure for everyday cooking anyone would have a problem to get the Dutch oven to be on simmering low-fire setting on the stove top. ---------------------------------------------- BTW, ATK has provided much very useful and important information to the public, however, most of their tests are done in somewhat informal settings. To confirm a true test of 350F vs. 300F in the quality of the meat, I believe the experiment must be done in an oven with an electronic PID type of thermostat which has the ability to control the environment to 0.1 F resolution. Mechanical bi-metal or capillary hydraulic type of thermostats in normal ovens can vary as much as 30F to 50F. Humidity of the cooking environment should be monitored, and a chart recorder should be in operation to record temperature swings throughout the entire cooking time. Because testing by individuals chewing is highly unreliable, it depends on subjectivity, and where the meat from the same cut is taken for the chewing. Proper way to do it perhaps would be using a durometer tester. Finally, no test result is to be considered conclusive until the same test is performed by another independent testing facility. Bottom line: Stewing using a Dutch oven in an oven will make wonderful and delicious stew. However, beef "tenderness" cooked at 212 F is very different texturally than beef tenderness cooked at 135F. dcarch

If you're making pound cakes and such in them, here's the recipe for "pan goop" that I use--also called Pan Release--from the allrecipes website: (You can make half a recipe and it works well, too.) 1/2 cup corn oil or canola oil or vegetable oil 1/2 cup vegetable shortening, room temperature (Crisco) 1/2 cup all-purpose flour Place all ingredients in a mixing bowl. Using an electric mixer beat until mixture has increased in volume slightly and resembles marshmallow cream. This is why it's important for the vegetable shortening to be at room temperature--it mixes easier! Place in a container with a lid. I store mine in the fridge. The mixture tends to separate slightly upon sitting so mix before using, and apply with your fingers or whatever you would normally use to grease a pan.

I've been reading these and all of trailrunner's post. They are just great. All the hints were great. I bake bread out of boredom, I rarely use a recipe, for better or worse and like the wet doughs as well as quicker higher yeast doughs for pizza. Someday I'll get that "super peel" with the cloth belt thingy. I am forced to pre-cook my thin pizza crusts without one- My favorite bread is an olive bread that is made locally in the East Bay and sold now only at the local Berkeley farmer's market- you can go to their bakery, and they will sell stuff to you, but it's not a store front, no sales help, no hours- if they are there they'll sell it to you- they're also fresh pasta makers- 'Phoenix Pastificio'- if you're ever in the area. I've never tried to make that bread, it's almost Holy to me...( although I know he uses a biga and those black Kalamata olives). It has a thin almost black burnt crust, with large ciabatta holes to the crumb and flavor to die for.

What great input! Since I have a sweet tooth, I knew I was leaning towards desserts, but I agree with Martha who just pointed out, desserts are what make it brunch instead of breakfast. Although there are no vegans or vegetarians in the group, I wanted to not have more than one egg dish. I'm thinking of leaving the bacon in the quiche and adding onions and red peppers to the sausage and roasted potatoes. Plllog suggested using a more interesting sausage than turkey and I like that idea. Something spicy IS called for! Undecided about the pear mini-muffins. It would be one less thing to make. I don't think they add that much to the menu except a different shape and they would look so cute piled up on my little 3-tier pastry rack. If I do bake them, I'd go with a simple, not-sweet bran muffin with some chunks of pear baked into the top. The suggestions for adding fruit are excellent. I'll probably add the grapefruit and avocado salad. Although some would add ham and other sandwich makings, I'm drawing the line there because these are retired women; they don't eat that much. About the quantity and variety -- I don't mind leftovers. I can't say no to the gingerbread roll or the cranberry jello. These are from friends who really want to help. And because, leftovers! I saw a photo on Pinterest for the grapes and cheese platter -- attached..