LOL - my beautiful gift bag - can you tell I was makeup shopping? We had such a wonderful visit - it was way too short and I know you all will NOT believe that - especially considering that it was Alexa and ME involved - there was NO alcohol. none. zip. nada. OK, pick yourselves up off the floor...we still had a 6 hr drive ahead of us, so Scott definitely couldn't and we did arrive at 10:30 AM...we considered bloody mary's but the visit was so short, we never got to them. :-) First Alexa gave me a wonderful basket filled with some of her home canned goodies! I got some of the gingered holiday chutney! YEA! Also some yummy looking apricot chutney, and some pickled asparagus! I appreciate these so much because I know what it takes to can - and I also am skeptical as to whether anything I have done this year is going to be edible - LOL! also in my basket were some green bean crisps that she got at the local farmer's market - these things are addictive. We can't figure out how they make them. They're crunchy but light green beans. (Sammy had one in the car and she likes them too.) Also some beautiful little wooden serving dishes - Alexa knows that sometimes my "entertaining" involves cocktails and assorted nuts - LOL. For lunch she made bbq'd pork sandwiches and following Alexa's lead, we put our coleslaw right on the sandwich - mmmm! We also had a yummy salad with lots of veggies and fresh cheese She had also made some great tortilla roll ups - we loved the red ones which had jalapenos in them. Here we are in Alexa's picturesque back yard with Sammy (who was a bit of a pain) Here are the texting buddies (LOVE that hair!) And here are all of us minus Scott who was taking the pic... Alexa's boys are adorable and friendly - and Scott and I both found Alexa to be charming, intelligent, funny, interesting, and a wonderful hostess. She was able to do all of this without having a car to get around - with her DH's vehicle issues this week! We all were so at ease together - we plan to get together again when we had down that way. I don't think the boys will let us forget it, either - LOL. Sorry it took me so long - we were on the road til almost 8 last night...long day but very fun. And I forgot to say that she lives in a beautiful beautiful area... Stacy

Based upon what Prarie love wrote, at least some people do believe that hypothyroid-induced seizures are common. Being hypothyroid and having seizures are not necessarily related, though they certainly can be. Unfortunately being that most animals do not get regular annual (twice yearly for older pets) bloodwork when they are healthy, but most people will get bloodwork done when their pet has a seizure, it is often the case that low T4 is discovered right after an animal has a seizure. But the seizure itself can cause low T4, and once the animal's seizures are controlled the T4 returns to normal- or not if the animal is on phenobarbital. This is euthyroid sick syndrome- normally functioning thyroid that is temporarily suppressed due to another disease. Euthyroid sick syndrome can be caused by any disease, including a disease that causes seizures or the seizures themselves. It doesn't hurt to judiciously supplement thyroid hormone in an emergency while waiting for a full thyroid panel, which takes 1-2 weeks (having just gotten one for my dog) as long as you don't go overboard, as oversupplementing thyroid hormone can be cardiotoxic. But you are not really controlling the seizures, you are actually preventing further seizures. In other words, even if a dog's seizures are caused by hypothyroidism, giving thyroid hormone won't do anything to stop the current seizures (explaination follows). The full thyroid panel can sort out euthyroid sick syndrome from true hypothyroidism if it is done prior to starting phenobarb, usually. Some pets refuse to be classified, like my own dog. I did a LOT of reading on this lately because my pathologists were stumped when I asked how hypothyroidism, which causes decreased cellular activity, could possibly cause seziures, which are caused by increased cellular activity. I would have asked the neurologists, but they were in rounds and then left before I could catch them. But I did find the info myself, and it seems that hyperlipidemia (VERY high serum triglycerides and/or cholesterol) may lead to atherosclerosis and then ischemic encephalopathy (low oxygen to the brain) due to hemorrhage or thrombus, causing seizures or other CNS signs (called a stroke in people). There are many causes for hyperlipidemia, hypothyroidism is one. One study showed that dogs that had atherosclerosis were 51 times more likely to be hypothyroid than dogs who did not have artherosclerosis (they showed similar results for dogs with diabetes mellitus). Hyperlipidemia may also cause hypercoagulable syndrome where an animal throws clots, which can end up anywhere. Clinical signs are referrable to location of clot, so if a dog threw a clot into the brain, that would also cause ischemic encephalopathy and possible CNS signs or seizures. Of course, bloodwork would pick up hyperlipidemia (well, a complete panel would show both cholesterol and triglyceride levels; some in-house machines can't do this), so waiting for a thyroid panel just tells you why the hyperlipidemia is present. Because hyperlipidemia may have causes besides hypothyroidism, it is much more important to include cholesterol and triglycerides in a seizure work-up than to include thyroid testing. You can always go back for a cause of hyperlipidemia if needed. That said, you need to have a full thyroid panel done before a pet is placed on phenobarbital because that drug suppresses thyroid hormone in some animals. It does not always cause clinical disease and may not always need to be treated. Once on phenobarb, it is very difficult to impossible to sort out true hypothyroidism from phenobarb-induced thyroid suppression. Without clinical signs though, there doesn't seem to be a need for treatment. Atherosclerosis appears to be rare in dogs overall, but common in dogs with hypothyroidism and diabetes mellitus. The actual incidence is unknown because you need either MRI, CT, or a necropsy to diagnose it. Most people don't have access to MRI or CT for their pets either because of expense or because it isn't available. And most people refuse necropsy. The unfortunate part about atherosclerosis is that once it is in the brain, you can't get rid of it, even by treating the underlying cause. If you can get the animal to stop having seizures and if there isn't too much permanent damage and if you can treat the underlying cause, you may be able to prevent more seizures depending upon how much of the brain is affected by atherosclerosis. The damage is done, and you have to prevent further atherosclerosis by treating the disease. In some cases, the damage to the brain may be too great and the patient dies despite best efforts, even if the cause was "just" hypothyroidism. Controlling hypothyroidism would also prevent further seizures due to hypercoagulable states caused by hyperlipidemia, but the same "ifs" apply. This is why supplementing thyroid hormone when presented with a seizuring animal isn't really necessary, even if the seizures are caused by hypothyroidism. You do need to control the hypothyroidism, but that can wait until the animal stops seizing and you have at least a clue of whether or not the animal is actually hypothyroid. It appears that the reason hypothyroidism is a rare cause of seizures in dogs is that most cases of hypothyroidism are diagnosed and treated long before a patient develops clincally significant hyperlipidemia and subsequent atherosclerosis. It seems that mild hypothyroidism without clinical signs does not cause the a high degree of hyperlipidemia, so the risk of seizures in this case is very small. I guess if you ignore the clinical signs long enough and don't do screening bloodwork on a regular basis, a dog could have severe hypothyroidism and seizures. BTW, collies are prone to hyperlipidemia without hypothyroidism, so in the case of poor Shelby, testing cholesterol and triglycerides is much more important than thyroid testing. You have to know what is common in certain breeds and ages, otherwise you end up running every test in the book and that is a waste of time, money, and effort.

That is a good story Moni. I enjoyed it. Leslie

I have nearly finished Undaunted Courage and thought I would add my thoughts as an overseas reader. Firstly, I enjoyed the book very much. I had a vague idea that 'lewisandclark' had gone across the US but I didn't know the time, the route or anything about them, so the book was interesting from that point of view. My edition had a few maps, but I would have liked a lot more, with more detail. I really had no idea that the headwaters of the Missouri were that far west, or indeed that the Missouri was quite so long. At times I was annoyed by Ambrose's writing. I know that for an American the use of 'he wrote his mother' is normal (rather than the 'he wrote to his mother' that we use), but the phrase occurred so much in the first portion of the book that it began to grate on me. Furthermore, there were many times in the narrative where the sentence construction was unwieldy or plain wrong (I spotted a couple of sentences with no verb), and these should have been picked up by the editor. I know I am being picky here, but it still detracted from the book for me. He also said many times 'the first Americans' when referring to the white men, which seemed a bit careless too. I did enjoy the varied spelling of Lewis and Clark in their journals - I know spelling wasn't fixed in those days, but it is interesting when they spell the same word differently in one sentence *g* Overall, I found it an interesting and educational read. I didn't know that humans could survive so well on a basically all meat diet (although fresh fruit vegetables may not have featured much in their diets before the trek either, especially those in the army). Please don't tell my teenaged sons this :-)) The success of the exploration seemed to hinge quite a lot on luck (the Native Americans being mainly friendly, not getting lost in the snow and so on) but this is probably true for most expeditions of this kind. The variety of Lewis' skills in recognising flora and fauna and taking scientific readings is amazing too. It reminded me of our previous discussions about 'renaissance man', or in this case, 'enlightenment man' and what would be required knowledge. I am greatly impressed with the way the group could function so well in such conditions. Lewis and Clark were both very young, although Lewis in particular had had a lot of responsibility already in his life. The hardship of the journey would tend to either pull the men together or drive them apart, and with a large group of 30 or so it is to the credit of the captains that there was so little dissent. I get the feeling that Lewis, once he was back into 'civilisation' felt that there wasn't much else ahead of him. I think that he may have delayed the publication of the journals because he felt that once that was done, the whole episode was past, and he wouldn't be so important, in his own eyes or in those of others. I think he may also have felt lonely, despite his drinking outings and...