It has been three or four years since I read the book, so my memory of the details has faded, but I really enjoyed this book when I read it. I was also fascinated by the life of Meriwether Lewis and the tale of his depression was very poignant. I can't remember if Ambrose offers any theories on whether they thought Lewis was bipolar or whether it was another type of depression, but it is a remarkable story of what focused determination can accomplish for a period of time and sad that Lewis was placed in a position after the journey for which he was so ill-suited. I was very curious what happened to the corp after the journey. Ambrose tells us some of it, but, in particular, I wanted to know what happened to Jean Baptiste (Sacagawea's baby). Below is an url to a summarized list of what happened to all the members of the Corp of Discovery:

Here is a link that might be useful: Corp of Discovery - After the Journey

Georgia_Peach, thanks for that url. I was wondering what happened to Seaman, the dog. Ambrose says that Lewis most likely suffered from manic-depressive syndrome.

Lewis was taking opium regularly and pretty heavily. I thought maybe he wouldn't part with his journals because he just couldn't turn over his "baby" to a publisher and the public. It was his triumph; perhaps he just couldn't bear to let it go. ~~~~ I, too, didn't retain much (if I ever learned it) about the journey, although being from Kentucky and living in Louisville all my adult life, we hear a lot about George Rogers Clark. He was the founder of our city as well as Clarksville, Indiana, just across the river. Around here, before the bicentennial celebrations, William Clark and Meriwether Lewis were much as Ambrose said, "LewisnClark." ~~~~ This was also the first time I ever heard that the British tried to extend the Canadian border to the Ohio River. I'd need my passport to go to my favorite candy shop. ~~~~ I really liked the book, especially the portion dealing with the actual trip. Ambrose did a wonderful job of making it real. Imagine being the first to see that pristine scenery and all those buffalo. It's amazing enough to see Glacier National Park and Yellowstone now. ~~~~ I know two women who drove across the country following the trail of the expedition from St. Louis at the time of the bicentennial in 2004. They must have read this book. It surely made me want to go and do likewise. ~~~~ I thought Clark was pretty impressive, too, and they were such young men to be so knowledgeable. Clark, especially, could have used a spell check, though. I was glad to see Jefferson put in a good light again, too.

Carolyn, thanks for your comments. As I was reading through the book I made lots of mental notes about the expedition for starting the discussion but after finishing the book I could only think about what happened afterwards and almost ignored the best part of the book.------------------------------ Thomas Jefferson has been my hero since I first read about him as a child and in the matter of this expedition he certainly was forward thinking and willing to take chances, especially with entrusting something so important to the young Lewis and Clark. He had political, commercial, and scientific goals for the expedition and he found people who could accomplish all three areas as well as possible.------------------------------------------------------ Both Lewis and Clark possessed excellent vocabularies and wrote in a very interesting manner although, as Carolyn says, their spelling was pretty bad. I have another book that contains samples of the letters and journals they wrote and they both had excellent handwriting, as well.------------------------------------------------Many references from their journals had to do with the food the expedition party had available. When they had meat, each person ate nine to ten pounds of meat each day!---------------------------------------------------There are biographies available on Clark as well as various versions of the journals -- complete and abridged. They would make for interesting reading.

...but as I started reading the book and thought about the RP members who are not in the United States, I wondered if there would be much interest in this book.

This was my major problem with this book. I actually didn't finish it; I found that I couldn't relate to any of the people in it and I didn't have any real historical or geographical knowledge to relate it to. I could appreciate that it might well have been a fascinating story, but it all seemed a little dense to me; I couldn't remember who was who, what they were doing, and, in the end, I just didn't have enough interest in it. My next book was calling to me...

But I did try!

I've just checked this out and have started it. So far, so good. There is a wealth of historical and geographical detail, so we'll see how far I get..... I am not that familiar with the rivers and passes and mountains of the American West, so am constantly having to drag out maps and search them....I like the fact that Thos. Jefferson is presented with character flaws and weaknesses, not as a plaster saint, as he so often is depicted. Also, the description of the Virginia gentry and agrarian southern society in the 1700's is spot on, IMO.

Mary (who lives quite close to Colonial Williamsburg, Yorktown, and Jamestown).

This happens to be me so frequently in this forum: I've read a book years ago, forgotten most of it, and I have to scurry to reread. Often my current impressions conflict with the way I perceived the book the first time around. This is true with Undaunted Courage.

I recall being delighted that Ambrose made the Lewis & Clark Expedition come alive. His writing is accessible, I think (maybe I should say thought after reading Martin's post, though), to readers who never knew much about this part of American history or had forgotten most of it. But I've also heard a lot of criticism about Ambrose's writing -- mostly from academic types who disparage popular history. With that niggling in my mind, rereading hasn't been as pleasurable. If what I want is pure entertainment, though, it shouldn't matter as much because I still think Ambrose does a bang-up job telling a good story. Besides, I like popular history, being no academic-type historian myself.

Frances, Jefferson fascinates me, too. What a complex man he was! It seems as if Meriwether Lewis could have been almost as astute if he hadn't had mental problems and had lived longer. Was Jefferson's mentoring of Lewis partially a surrogate replacement for the son he never had (only Jefferson's daughters attained adulthood)?

Ambrose doesn't dwell on the possibility that Lewis was murdered -- and at this late date, there is no way to prove that he was -- but there does seem to be something hinky about that woman's story of his demise. However, Jefferson accepted the evidence as suicide, at least publicly, didn't he? How about Clark, what did he think? I either need to read that part more carefully in Ambrose's book or find a more detailed examination. It all could be just another conspiracy theory, for all I know.

Heh! Carolyn, there were plenty Native Americans who had already seen the "pristine scenery and all those buffalo." I know what you mean, though: the first people of European descent. I'm just pulling your leg a bit. ;-)

Frieda (I'm glad you identified yourself on the other thread!), both Jefferson and Clark immediately accepted the story of Lewis' suicide as entirely believable, according to Ambrose. Clark wrote that he had received a letter from Lewis at the time that made him believe the suicide, but that letter has never been found. I agree that Jefferson probably saw something of himself in Lewis and mentored him for that reason. They certainly had similar interests and intellects.

Martin, I'm not surprised that you didn't finish the book. Do you know if there are books written about the American Revolution from the British point of view?

Mary, after reading about Jefferson and the area in which he lived so much as a kid, the first time I visited those places I felt like I was the luckiest person in the world. My boy friend was in law school at William & Mary so I was able to visit often for a few years.

My copy of the book includes maps that certainly made it all easier to follow. Do all editions of the book not include the maps?

Frances, you ask if there have been books written about the discovery, exploration etc of Great Britain and I suppose if one goes far enough back to the Romans there was the descriptions by Caesar and possibly Tacitus(?) although I think most of the early writers had never visited our shores Equally dubious are the early 'histories' eg Bede's writings, the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle even up to the 'tales' of King Arthur, Robin Hood and so on.
There are certainly many books on the Revolutionary War (we used to call it the War of Independence - when did that go out of fashion?)
A Few Bloody Noses by Robert Harvey
Rebels and Redcoats by Hugh Bicheno and Richard Holmes are both fairly recent.
Holmes (a military historian) presented a BBC TV series on the R War, very detailed and instructive. It would make an interesting read for anyone seeking a view of the events that are not overburdened with patriotism.

Martin, an excellent book on the history of the USA is America by Alistair Cooke. Yes, he whose bones may have been removed from the funeral home and sold to unscrupulous body-part rebuilders. It follows the TV series he made in 1973 and did receive some criticism from the US press who didn't like the version of the 'Boston Tea Party' as given by A C.
I haven't been able to get a copy of Ambrose' book yet and must ask at the library. It was well-received over here with extracts in the Sunday papers and there was a BBC series on Lewis and Clark. Where would we be without the Beeb?

I am so glad I saw this...I finished The Stone Fields last night and was trying to decide which of the TBR's I would read next. I had forgotten about this month's book! (Just found it on the bottom of one stack of about 20 books!)

Frances: From HS Latin - we had to memorize it - "Gallia est omnia divisa in partes tres, quaraum unam incolunt Belgae..." Caesar's commentary on the Gallic War. My daughter in law could probably read it in the Latin!

We were in St. Louis at the arch and museum two summers ago...and saw the film there, and the incredible exhibit. Then saw a PBS program...so I am fascinated by Lewis and Clark and looking forward to reading the book.

I like the idea of following their route by auto trip. I am going to follow along on a good size map to see where modern cities and towns show up.

Going to go read a chapter with my morning coffee. Stopped typing to scan the book...reading the introduction I remembered that we were at the Lewis and Clark campground in Montana in 1970...so we've already done part of this!

I love this book!

One thing that struck me was language translations on the expedition. We've all heard that Sacagawea traveled with the group as a translator and guide. Have you ever heard that her translations went from the native tongue to French through her husband to English. Speaking from one language to another is hard enough...try adding a couple more in the mix.

Very interesting book.

Happy

Happy, I was impressed by the language translations, too, although I wondered sometimes how they really understood very much of what was said. The description reminded me of an old I Love Lucy episode where there was a line of about four people translating Lucy's explanation of why she didn't steal something. (What happened to those reruns; I thought they would be on TV forever.)

Vee, thanks for the book suggestions. I will check into them.

Veronica, I'm looking forward to your comments, especially since you have visited at least some of the expedition areas.

I'm so grateful to whoever recommended this book. As a history lover, it is really a compelling read for me, and Ambrose's style is lively and accessible.

I'm now about half way through it and am captivated by the descriptions of the various Native American tribes and their folkways.

Equally interesting, IMO, are the personalities of Lewis and Clark, which complement each other. These guys were, in every sense of the word, in terra incognita, young as they were, and they were having to literally make up the rules as they went along!

Was anyone else as intrigued as I was by the weird sounds they heard while in the Montana wilderness which sounded like Ordnance? I find it truly amazing that to this day, no one has ever been able to figure out what the loud noises were....

Mary

Mary, I'm glad you are enjoying the book. The combination of history and biography can't be beat.

While browsing through Borders this week I found a Collector's Edition magazine from American History and Wild West magazines called "Lewis & Clark The Corps of Discovery." It is a 200th Anniversary Commemorative Issue. There are articles on various aspects of the expedition, including one with details on what happened to the Corps members afterwards and one on the death of Lewis.

A professor of law and forensic sciences at George Washington University has petitioned to have Lewis' body exhumed so advanced tests can be done to determine whether Lewis shot himself and to find whether he was a heavy drug user. While the people who knew Lewis best did believe that it was suicide, there have been so many doubts raised that even Lewis' relatives are in favor of the exhumation. The National Park Service has authority, however, and they are not likely to agree.

The magazine contains other very interesting articles, and it also mentions some of the many (more than 1500) books that have been written about Lewis & Clark.

Has anyone seen either of the two videos about the expedition?

Its been a very long time since I read this book, but I'll read it again. I also have read 'Pleasure of your Company' an interesting fictional version of the journey, if anyone is interested in branching off.

I'm bring this back up in case anyone else has some comments. Undaunted Courage is well worth the investment in reading time required.

I have nearly finished Undaunted Courage and thought I would add my thoughts as an overseas reader.

Firstly, I enjoyed the book very much. I had a vague idea that 'lewisandclark' had gone across the US but I didn't know the time, the route or anything about them, so the book was interesting from that point of view. My edition had a few maps, but I would have liked a lot more, with more detail. I really had no idea that the headwaters of the Missouri were that far west, or indeed that the Missouri was quite so long.

At times I was annoyed by Ambrose's writing. I know that for an American the use of 'he wrote his mother' is normal (rather than the 'he wrote to his mother' that we use), but the phrase occurred so much in the first portion of the book that it began to grate on me. Furthermore, there were many times in the narrative where the sentence construction was unwieldy or plain wrong (I spotted a couple of sentences with no verb), and these should have been picked up by the editor. I know I am being picky here, but it still detracted from the book for me. He also said many times 'the first Americans' when referring to the white men, which seemed a bit careless too. I did enjoy the varied spelling of Lewis and Clark in their journals - I know spelling wasn't fixed in those days, but it is interesting when they spell the same word differently in one sentence *g*

Overall, I found it an interesting and educational read. I didn't know that humans could survive so well on a basically all meat diet (although fresh fruit vegetables may not have featured much in their diets before the trek either, especially those in the army). Please don't tell my teenaged sons this :-)) The success of the exploration seemed to hinge quite a lot on luck (the Native Americans being mainly friendly, not getting lost in the snow and so on) but this is probably true for most expeditions of this kind. The variety of Lewis' skills in recognising flora and fauna and taking scientific readings is amazing too. It reminded me of our previous discussions about 'renaissance man', or in this case, 'enlightenment man' and what would be required knowledge.

I am greatly impressed with the way the group could function so well in such conditions. Lewis and Clark were both very young, although Lewis in particular had had a lot of responsibility already in his life. The hardship of the journey would tend to either pull the men together or drive them apart, and with a large group of 30 or so it is to the credit of the captains that there was so little dissent.

I get the feeling that Lewis, once he was back into 'civilisation' felt that there wasn't much else ahead of him. I think that he may have delayed the publication of the journals because he felt that once that was done, the whole episode was past, and he wouldn't be so important, in his own eyes or in those of others. I think he may also have felt lonely, despite his drinking outings and...

I, too, noticed Ambrose's casual writing style, for want of a better term. I concluded he deliberately was "dumbing down" his verbiage to make this piece of US history more accessible to the average American reader. I can't say this put me off the book....

Speaking of the almost all-meat diet, I noted that this was supplemented often by "roots" brought by the Native Americans. Does anyone have a clue as to what these "roots" might have been? Do you think they were potatos? Turnips?

Bringing this up again for anyone else who wants to participate. This was really a worthwhile read, IMO, and I learned a lot about US history, various Indian nations and Thos. Jefferson.