I don't like it. I have friends who have a junior.. we just call the dad by his middle name now.

My DH was a Jr.

We never even considered giving our son the same name, because DH's fathers' name was spelled with what would be a feminine spelling of his name. My DH's birth certificate had the same spelling. In college, my DH was sometimes assigned to a girl's dorm. 'Course he thought that was pretty neat! We would not pass that problem on to our son.

The rest of the story:

When my son's son was born, his DW wanted him to be a Jr. Son was adamant about not having a Jr, but agreed to using his same name with II after it.

When they saw the birth certificate, guess what? His son had become a Jr.

They said they would have the BC changed as soon as possible.

Actually a son with the same name as a Jr has to be II, and his son a III. Can't name all sons of the same father II. or III. IV, etc.

Sue

I don't have a problem with it. My first husband's grandfather was Tom, his son (ex-husband's dad) was Tom, Jr., ex-husband is Tom,III and our son is Tom,IV.

That is not true. Not true at all. A II can be a nephew or any other male in the lineage that fits.

I don't care for it at all. My husband is a Jr (with a middle name EVERYONE in the world hates), my oldest first cousins were jrs. My MOTHER was a jr (with a TERRIBLE name--thank goodness she didn't name me, her first born, after her).

On a practical note, it's just too darned confusing to have 2 people in the same house, with the same name. On an emotional one--I believe every person deserves their own name, to make what they want of it.

Mind you, when I was pregnant, my MIL was VERY distressed that I was emphatic about NOT naming my child after my husband if it was a boy--but that family feud never happened. I had a girl.

And yes, those brothers' all same names with the roman numerals are all very real & legal according to their official State of California Birth &, in some cases, Death Records.

We named our son Jr. and since his credit is not so good, wish we hadn't. Don't really know why we did it, as neither one of us really cared about a Jr. But this was in the 50's. Would not do it again.

I hate it. It's very confusing. I think everyone deserves to have their own name. One picked especially for them. Not a hand-me-down name.

Linda

our men's names.......
dh grandfather was william luther (went by luke)
gh's father was william luther jr.(went by bill)
dh was william george (went by george)
my 1st son is william luther (goes by bill)
his first son is william george (goes by george)............and
his 3rd son is william luther!

also, ds had a dog namen willie......

strange bunch we are!

2nd ds is more creative and unique as well as with his son.

My husband has a Junior, didn't want it..but "she" did that while he was at boot camp...
My husband has gone by his middle name since he started school and that's what he wanted to be called..however his family still calls him Bill(y)..His son is called Bil-Dee...no grandson yet..But I'd be very surprised if the name was kept going.
The only thing my boys have the same is their initials...names are all their own..
All of my husbands kids have the same middle initial as he does.
I do think my 3 will likely keep that going.

Being a junior can have strange repercussions. One day, DH walked into a store and liked some shoes they were selling. This was long ago, before most people had credit and debit cards. He had no way to pay, little cash on him, but remembered he had an unused personal check in his wallet. He showed ID, wrote out the check, done, brought the shoes home and wore them. Several months later, his fathger got a nasty note from a bill collector about passing a bad check. Why? Because DH had forgotten he had closed his checking account many months earier. And we had an unlisted pohone, whereas my FIL was in the phone book. Believe me, we paid that debt off very quickly! Also, DH worked for many years for a county government which requires all its residents to live within the county. After we married and bought a house in the next-door county, DH "hid" his move by continuing to get mail at his parents' address.

I don't have a problem with it, as long as there can be a decent nickname to tell the Sr & Jr apart. we gave our first born his own first name and his middle name is after his father. Our daughter gave her first born, a girl, her maiden name as her middle name. No confusion in our family about names. Just other things! LOL

Don't like it. DH was emphatic about not naming our kids after any family members so there wouldn't be someone fussing they got left out and someone else got in. lol

That's how we wound up with the the 3 K's, Kody, Kandra and Kyla. DH had DD already named Kari. Works for us.

I agree with Azzalea, everyone deserves their own name.

DH is a jr. When our first child was born, and we were filling out the birth cert. info, we forgot to put DH down as "jr." (The baby had his own name.) So we had to do a revision of the birth cert because I wouldn't want anyone to think my FIL fathered his own grandchild. You never know when someone like Alisande or other KT geneaology sleuths are going to come along and try to figure things out!!! LOL!

Anyway, now my son has a revised birth cert.

I think it's a lovely tradition. My Father-in-law, husband, and our son share the same name, which was FIL's mother's maiden name. There has never been an identity crisis among them. All six of our kids have family names honoring relatives. So far, our six gkids also have family names.

I don't understand making up names and spellings to be unique. I say this as a person whose first name is a nickname that was very trendy when my parents named me. I would love to have a real name AND a nickname!

"On a practical note,it's just too darned confusing to have 2 people in the same house, with the same name"
Yes it is! I think it's OK as long as they aren't called Juinor.
DH and DS both have the same first names but DS is not a Junior.We wanted him named after DH but didn't want to call him Darrell.We started calling him D.L.from the time he was born.L is for Lee Roy.He has 2 middle names because I wanted to name him Darrell Lee and my mom wanted us to name him after her only brother.His name was Dillard Leroy.I definitely didn't want to use the first name as a first or middle name so Lee Roy was what we went with.I wanted just the Lee and figured if he later wants to drop the Roy part he can.Everyone but some of his new acquaintances calls him D.L.His wife has always called him Darrell and it was pretty confusing when we first moved in with them.She has finally gotten into the habit of calling him by his initials,at least when we are all in the same room together!LOL My other son was named after my brother Charles and DH brother's middle name Errol.We call him Charlie.When he was little we called him Charlie Brown.
I had my oldest DD's first name picked forever.Just had to pick a middle name that went with Natasha.My other DD is named after both her grandmother,and like Donna's family most of the grand kids have one name that belongs to someone else in the family.It's kind of a tradition,but none are called by that name.

My husband's father was born in Germany, and, of course, had a German first name. When he came to the USA, he started using an "American" first name, but no middle name (he did not have a middle name in Germany). When he became a US citizen, he officially changed his first name to the American name he'd been using. When my husband, the first-born, came along, he was given the same American first name as his father, but Hubs was also given a middle name. So, my husband is NOT a "junior" because he has a middle name and his father didn't.

My heritage is Italian. The custom in Italy is this:
-- The first male is named after his paternal grandfather
-- The second male is named after his maternal grandfather
-- The first female is named after her paternal grandmother
-- The second female is named after her maternal grandmother

Hence, no juniors. It honors the family heritage, but still keeps the individuals as individuals.

My husband was named John Junior, but no one was aware of it. I found it out after he died when I saw his birth certificate. I think his dad's name was picked as his because it was list directly below the infants name. No one caught it, not the navy, his employer nor his parents. Unbelievable.

Jae, Welcome to my world. My oldest brother is not named after our father but someone my father knew from childhood. My younger brother was named Jr., but not my fathers full name and Jr. He was given my fathers' middle name with Jr tacked on. All three of us were given names we hated while growing up. I've always believed that the first really important job of all parents is to choose a name the child won't hate and Jr. is tops on the list of bad choices.

My ex-husband had the same first name as his father, and his sister had the same first name as their mother. Can you say "narcissism"? I was very confusing.

I like it when names are used to honor someone, like a grandparent, aunt, uncle, etc., but I am not a fan of children being named after a parent. But I am even less a fan of all the kids being given names beginning with the same letter (all Js or Cs seems the most common).

The naming convention that Lindsey describes is also used by Greeks. Another custom I am not a fan of. Does one family really need 5 grandchildren named Nicholas or George? If a couple have 3 boys each first boy of those will have the first name? All those cousins with the name names, craziness.

My Mother's Family is named after Aunts, Uncles, other cousins and Grands. LOL!
I'm Gayle Marie
then there is:
Anna Gayle
Sandra Gayle
Gayle Lynn
And I'm Gayle Marie after Grandmother Agnes Marie. LOL!
Several of my Female Cuz' have named kids after their Maiden Names.
My Nephew has his Mother's Maiden Name for a Middle name.
I think it's an honor.
My Cuz Mary was named after my Mother's Sister who died at 16.

I am also not a fan of it, it gets confusing and often you end up with nicknames like "Big John" and "Little John". Friends of our family had this and "Little John" is now in his 50's but still called by this name.

My friends son is a junior, but since birth they always called him by his middle name. On the first day of kindergarten the teacher was taking attendance and kept asking if John Doe was there, he did not answer--finally he said that is my father, is he supposed to be here too?

I'm rather glad that my family didn't carry on family names as my paternal grandfather was Adoniram Bostwick _____! Now,what kid wanted to be saddled with that name.

My Father's middle name was from family several generations back,as was his siblings. My oldest brother didn't seem to have a family connection, next brother's middle name was from our Mother's Dad. Oldest sister had our Mom's mother's middle name as her middle name. Brother next in line has our Dad's first name as his middle name, and my middle name is same as my mother's middle name.
Now, when youngest sister came along Dad asked Mom to give her his 'wealthy' sister's middle name as her middle name. He figured that might make points with his sister.:)
She put down what he told her and found out later that wasn't his sister's middle name after all.:(
Seems like all, but oldest and youngest, in our family got some family name, mostly as middle names.

My dad, brother, and grandpa all had the same first name and last names, but different middle names. That got confusing. Back before direct deposit, my brother's money was put in my dad's account by mistake.

My kid's names are all picked from people on the family tree. We never knew most of the people, but it's nice to have the link.

Gee . . . this is something I never gave much thought to, even though my son is a Jr. My DH was a Jr., and wanted our son to be the same. That was okay with me, although I would have preferred to give our son my dad's name as his middle name. But since my DH wanted to go the Jr. route, and since I had named the previous baby (Gillian Campbell), I was fine with it.

My DH has been gone five years now, and my son's "Jr." status should have disappeared with his father's death. But he still puts the Jr. after his name.

I don't remember any confusion. My son's natural nickname differentiated the two easily. Considerable confusion resulted from the fact that we gave our first daughter a variation on my name. I don't think of the two names as the same, but apparently a lot of people do.

My DH and his first wife gave her name to their first daughter. That remains confusing in conversation even today, more than 50 years later.

I've always believed that the first really important job of all parents is to choose a name the child won't hate and Jr. is tops on the list of bad choices.

Wow--I just read over all the posts, and I must say I never realized this was such a controversial issue. I want to add that none of my children have disliked their names.

When it comes to names, the only thing I felt halfway strongly about is that they should be spelled correctly. One of my friends named her son Trever, and I'm sure he will have to spell it his entire life.

>> When it comes to names, the only thing I felt halfway strongly about is that they should be spelled correctly.

Boy, I'm with you on that, alisande. There are some pretty "creative" spellings out there. Poor kids.

On a bit different note, my name wasn't very common when I was growing up. I like it and it's not rare, but only knew one other girl with it while growing up. I remember that all of those little things that you could buy with your name on them ... shoelaces, zipper pulls, etc. were something I wished I could have but couldn't as they never could be found with my name.

Oh well, I survived! :-)

Suzieque

"My ex-husband had the same first name as his father, and his sister had the same first name as their mother. Can you say "narcissism"?"

We have cousins on my mom's side (Fred and Marilyn) who named their son and daughter Fred and Marilyn. Most in our family always thought it was a bit strange, but they weren't Italian or Eastern European. They married in. My mom's side followed the Italian Catholic tradition (like lindsey) and my dad's family followed the Eastern European Jewish tradition from the Ashkenazic regions, and we don't name anyone after a living family member. It's believed that it would rob a person of his/her full life if another family member were to have the same name. It's interesting that Sephardic Jews don't share this belief.

I'm a firm believer that each person's name defines who they are, and having a unique name produces a unique person. Hence, I believe in everyone having their "own" name.

The naming pattern that's been claimed here as Italian and Greek is also a Scots pattern. It is both a help and a hindrance in genealogy. Sometimes you can rule out a 'possible' son or daughter because their name doesn't fit the pattern, but there are dozens of cousins in the maze. Parents also sometimes 're-used' the name of a deceased child when the next same-gender baby arrived.

One of my French Protestant families gave every son the middle name of Frederick. THAT was helpful in tracing them through 16th century records in Montbeliard.

My DH has his father's first name but a different middle name -- same initial. Our DS has his own first name and DH's middle name. DGS has his own first name and his father's and grandfather's middle name.

My parents debated so long over what to name me that the OB registered my birth as "Baby Girl (Surname)". So, because my parents had to *amend* the certificate, I have what almost all adoptees have, a birth certificate where the doctor's name is typed in (not a signature).

BTW the name they eventually did give me was hated by both sides of the family! (But the "Sue" goes back, uninterrupted to the many Susans, Susannes, etc. in graves all along the Swiss/French border -- and in the USA.)

named him with the exact first & middle name as his predeceased brother (first-born), who died a month before his first birthday. My husband was born the following year. Except for legal documents, he's always gone by his middle name.

The odd thing is that even currently, my husband doesn't have a birth certificate with the State of California. Don't know what happened there except maybe some long-ago employee saw the first-born's & somehow thought my husband's info was just a duplicate & it was never registered. All the info would have been almost identical, including same doctor, same hospital. He does still have his very fancy hospital birth certificate though, complete with little footprints.

I've suggested that he get a "delayed birth certificate", but he's never done it

KFCA37--

Please insist that your husband get an official birth certificate with the raised seal ASAP. The lovely hospital one won't count for much if you need a legal birth certificate. And if something happens to your husband and you're left having to sort things out, you do NOT want the additional headache of having to track down a legal bc for him. As a matter of fact, if he won't do it--you can go and get a copy. Just go to the dept. of records in the town/city where he was born, they can tell you what documentation you'll need. I'm surprised it hasn't been an issue for you before now. I'm on the other side of the country, and the ONLY documents that are accepted around here, for pretty much everything, are the government issued ones, NOT the hospital certificates, nor church-issued wedding certificates, etc.

Junior is only used with exact names. If the middle name is different then legally it is not a junior. The designation II is used for when there is not an immediate direct lineage to the namesake. For instance when naming a newborn after an uncle or grandfather. Again, to be a II the whole name must match including middle. There can be two cousins in a family and one is a junior and the other is a II.

Naming a child after a parent can cause a huge amount of hassle. My brother, father and grandfather all had the same first name and all lived in the same house at the very same time. Phone callers always got the third degree to try to figure out who they really wanted. Mail was always mis-sorted going to the wrong recipient. Someone showing up at the door always had to be grilled as to figure out which 'John Smith' they wanted. After my brother died bill collectors hassled my dad. (My brother did not go into debt until after he died BTW.) Same when my grandfather died.

My mother said she had been against naming my brother after my dad for all those very reasons but lost the vote.

My dad hated that his family had always called him "Junior" and my mother felt it was disrespectful to call a grown man "Junior" like he was some dumb kid or living in the shadow of his all powerful father. My brother thought it was cool having a lineage of three oldest sons with the same name but he died when he was a teen and did not experience the hassle it would have had he had to carry it onto adulthood. When my grandfather died there was a question if since there was no longer a "John Smith Sr." if my father could/should now use the designation but that could add to the problem of misdirected mail since my GF always used the Sr. designation and still got mail and phone calls for a decade after his death.

I would say.......Don't give a kid the same name as the parent.

his 82nd birthday in May and he's gone through life in California without a B/C, including secondary school, college, applying for a driver's license & SS# (both in the 1940ties) & marriage license, was employed by several different companies,was on numerous health insurance plans & is currently on Kaiser, traveled to Canada, Mexico & the Virgin Islands, (tho never applied for a passport), and has collected SS since age 65.

I'm not sure at this point what's left.

BTW, I worked for a (mostly) probate & trusts attorney for many years & I can recall no instance that a birth certificate was ever needed to wrap things up.

Some people I know really threw a monkey wrench at their son. Dad is Wallace Myron _______ and son is Wallace Mikkael ______. They refused to have the "junior" stigma and called son "Mike". More on that later. OK... so once he hits teen years they get the confusion with official stuff since Wallace M. ________ would come in and who's it for, plus phone calls. The ironic part is both had some debt issues and both tried ducking their own stuff only to get double whammied with the stuff from the other!

To me, it's bad enough when people give their kids odd names or odd spellings but if they at least call them by their name, I can respect it. I don't understand why people name their kids something and immediately start calling them by their middle name. Seems to me that you must not like the name much if you refuse to use it. Why not give the middle name as the first name in that case? Seems stupid to me.

As to the original question, I don't like using junior. Few people drop the junior appropriately and it carries on till death do they part and seldom bail out with irreconcilable differences. That said it's not a major thing with me. There's far worse things to do to a kid's name like not seeing what the initials spell and some names probably were respectable names at one time but now aren't. I'd much prefer to be named Adoph than to be named Percy or Etheldred.

At least some of the flowerchild names are starting to dilute out. In the 60s the Harolds and Sallys got high and named their kids "Bambi" "Sky" "Tulip" and the like. Then (perhaps from second hand smoke??) they had kids named Summer, Winter, Autumn, Fall, Spring, Thunder, Lightning, etc... Then Farrah started the double last name thing and John Lennon had to go one better. When the check came through my store with names something like John L. Henderson-Anderson and Julie T. Anderson-Henderson, I had to ask one of the others here whether they knew if the protocol would be to name the kid Devon J. Henderson-Anderson-Anderson-Henderson or Devon J. Anderson-Henderson-Henderson-Anderson?

I guess with enough money it IS 'till irreconcilable differences do you part with a name too!

I don't remember who suggested it but I'm inclined to agree with giving a kid a number at birth and when they turn 18 they choose their own name. Can't blame anyone but themselves then can they?

about that narcissism thing...
anybody notice that Desi & Lucy named their children Desi & Lucie?

I've known a few juniors, & none of them liked it a whole bunch but they kept a good attitude because they didn't want their dads to think they didn't want his name.

Does anyone remember the 2 tests for appropriate names?

They are the Screen Door Test & the Supreme Court Test.

you want to name your child Desdemona Sunshine Jones?

Test that name by saying, out loud,
"Desdemona Sunshine Jones, you come right back in this house & go out again *& close that screen door properly*!"

Then you say, out loud,
"Mr President, Members of Congress, Esteemed Ladies & Gentlemen, may I present the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, The Honorable Desdemona Sunshine Jones."

forgot to say that you need to think about monogrammed shirts, too.

My mother's initials were EGG & my father's were RAG.

Even if they'd been able to afford monogrammed shirts, they probably wouldn't have bought them!

"Desdemona Sunshine Jones, you come right back in this house & go out again *& close that screen door properly*!"

In my neighborhood that would not be unusual nor raise an eyebrow.

"I don't understand why people name their kids something and immediately start calling them by their middle name."

There are cultural differences with that one. Just like the way adjectives are put after a noun instead of before a noun like with English.

I love reading death notices where the deceased and all of his relatives are listed by their proper names AND their nicknames. It runs in families. Often nobody is known by anything other than "Stuffy", "Sonny", "Babe", "Butch", "Ace", "Sis", etc. It's probably the first time most of their adult friends realize they have formal names.

I've always been called "Sue", my middle name. As a Senior I've had to learn to listen for my legal first name in so many places. I've had to instruct recovery room personnel that I won't respond if they don't call me "Sue" as I come out of anesthesia.

My DH has TWO 'identities': His birth name and his adoptive name.

My Oldest brother was a JR,but he didn't go by it,everyone called him Van,short for Vivan.I have 3 boys and none are jr's.However my GD named her son after his dad,who most of us have a hard time tolerating(the dad),but that's another story.Anyhow we call the baby R.J.

Now my sister had a dd she named Kathleen,same as my name,so we've always been known among family as Big Kathi(me) and Little Kathi.
Kathi

DH is a Jr. and his oldest son is III (not my son - before my time). How he wishes they all had different names. My DH is a prince among men, LOL, but because he has the same name as his father and his son, it has caused him no end of misunderstandings, one which actually landed him in jail (again, before my time). His father had a warrant out for his arrest (unpaid tickets, I believe) and DH was picked up instead. Of course, he was released when the error was discovered, but not before he was in a jail cell.

And we occasionally receive notices that DH has been denied a credit card or loan, when none was applied for. Turned out to be his son's applications.

My kids like their names. Me not as much. In the maternal side of my family all the women were named Sarah Jane for five generations(first born daughters) but my mother broke tradition and I would rather have been named Sarah than what she chose. But my husbands mother really screwed up. She named him after both grandfathers which is fine. BUT they started calling him his middle name, a rather sissified version of it. So when someone calls him Charles, he never looks although that's officially his name. He always did the initial and then the rest of his name. Very confusing. I named my son a great name which has a good nickname too.

I have a friend that since kindergaten we have always called "twoee" never knew why - just what everyone called him. It wasn't until graduation day that I heard why - he was Jack Anthony II ( the second ).

Being Jr or II is an honor is many families - someone will find a nickname for him and among his family that is what he will be called.

Poor guy who is a III -- you know what the other boys will call him!

Here, they'd call him Trey!

In 'Chicaga' it's more like 'da terd'. It's *perfect* Little Boy humor.

A friend of mine is a III - his family nickname is Trip for triple I's.

My son is a JR. and it doesn't bother him because he likes his first name. Now if we had named him Alphonse or Lesley or some other less common name he might have objected.

MY GS is a junior.

Even without the name junior....I don't know anyone that likes their name. :0) My mom...Ittie. What kind of name is that? My sister is Katheryn.....she legally changed her name from Katherine.....huh? Need I say more? :0)

Nicole - I don't get it- she only changed the spelling? It's still pronounced the same? I'm curious why she went to all the trouble.
ps - I'm a Catherine too.

I love the traditions that surround naming a child. Weighing this name against that, which relatives had what name and did you even LIKE that relative. I think it keeps us connected with our past. My brother is a JR, named after our father. And my sister was named after our material grandmother. But me? My sister got to name me and there are absolutely no ties to anyone.

DH was named for an uncle who died in a war ... but he wasn't designated as a II. He named his first son JR. Then HE passed it on to HIS first son, who is III. I call him Trey, but everyone else called him Ricky.