That looks like the perfect place for one of those upper cabinets that rests on the counter. Maybe? (Replace the lower cabinet with one that matches the one next to it, and then add a shallower upper hutch type cabinet.)

I'm not a kitchen designer either, though. :-)

i agree with segbrown.. i would put a standard height lower and put a 12in or as you say maybe even 15 in depth upper on top of it..

part of the issue i think is that they block so much of the window from that angle..

or this might be nuts but you could put a little half wall up between the base cabinet and these two cabinets and then maybe paint them a different color and build some shelving off of them so while you might still use them to store kitchen stuff they might look more like they are just a nice cabinet/storage in the next room.. so visually the kitchen would end right next to that base cabinet.. and moving them over would free up the view of the window..

Thanks for that. I was hoping someone would say, "no, it's just new to you, it looks fine!" But it's also good to have confirmation.

I can't afford a new base cab, but I had a thought based on this idea and measured. Both pieces are the same height when you subtract the base molding (don't know what it's called? the indentation for the toe kick) on the bottom one. What do you think about building that molding piece for the upper, putting them side by side, and building a hutch on top of that?

Would it be possible to make the top one work right next
to it...covered with granite, maybe a place to perch on a stool?
You would still have all the storage and a usable counter top.
Best of luck!
vic

LOL! Vic and I had the same thought at the same time. So one vote there.

I'm not all that tall, so I don't know if I'd be able to use it as a work surface. Pity, because it'd be nice to have a butcher block area...

To me it's strange that it's hard to tell now where the kitchen ends and the dining room starts thru that opening. Looks like the tall cabinet is standing politely outside the kitchen...I think the dining room is gorgeous, and I'd transition the tall cabinet with an inexpensive solution: a 'box" on top plus molding treatments to make it all look like a built-in part of the wall and part of that formal area; transitioning into the kitchen. {{!gwi}}That's just my opinion.

nalcars picture helps a lot.. its not nearly as visually troublesome with the gap above that cabinet boxed in... if you did nothing else i think that would go a long way to resolving things.. id consider it fixed..

Not sure if I am understanding the layout correctly, but I think nalcar's solution looks like perfection (and simplicity to boot) and then some.
Nalcar- great job!!!
Beccamj - curious if you think it will work as well and if you like it? (looks fantastic to me, but then it's not my house)

What do you think about building that molding piece for the upper, putting them side by side, and building a hutch on top of that _____________________________________________________________________________

beccamj - I think that's a terrific idea. It would give you more storage, more counter space and make a nice transition between the DR/LR and kitchen.

I also like nalcar's solution if you aren't able to get the hutch thing together.

Wow, thanks nalcar and all! You guys are so creative. I wish I had discovered this place before I planned or I would never have had this issue.

OK, so first off, below is a shot of the DR as it was before the reno.

I do like your idea, although the pantry is out a good bit from the kitchen corner so it wouldn't look as smooth as your picture shows. Also, the cabs are s different white than the LR (it's more a slightly off white vs. a true cream). So this might accentuate that even more. I went on the theory that a. the kitchen is a different room and b. I really wanted that for my cabs and I knew if it didn't work it would be easier/more pleasing to me to repaint rather than change the color of the cabs. But this would certainly hasten that repainting decision, otherwise it would look strange.

So I'm going to speak to my contractor this morning about the side by side idea. I also thought, since the hutch might be yet another pricey option (I'm totally over-budget as it is), maybe a couple of shelves with solid sides built up about 8-12" deep. I could put my cookbooks or maybe decorative items there.

There's an outlet for the wall-through A/C where that second half would now be so that would have to be moved, unfortunately, and it was the electrical that really put me over in the first place but we'll see what can be done.

Thanks again!

Nalcar gotr it -- the cabinet doesn't look strange because it is tall, it looks odd because it is sitting outside the opposite wall and what appears to be defined as the kitchen. Instead of taking it shorter, make it taller. If your are in NYC, have the cabinet guy make another box or at least put a door on that box so you create a little extra storage for seasonal items. Don't waste the space!

WOW! Nalcar came up with the perfect fix....not real sure how you did that either. REALLY creative and awfully good with photoshot!

I see what you are saying. It doesn't define the space; the space is defined as that left entry wall. So, in essence, the pantry is now sitting outside in the DR.

I think I am going to have to give up on that definition idea, just as I had to with the floor (it was vinyl, I had the same hardwood as the rest of the apartment put in because I couldn't figure out a good stopping point. I would have preferred a different floor, honestly). Because there's something about that definition that isn't quite right either, although I can't put my finger on it. I think side-by-side still feels better to me somehow.

I was thinking along the same lines as nalcar in adding a soffit (which I know is generally a dirty word here on Garden Web :-) but extending the soffit across the opening of the kitchen. Here's a picture showing my idea:
{{!gwi}}

Another approach (probably more work and money) would be to remove the header on the door frame and take the door opening to the ceiling. Then the cab doesn't look so much like it's sitting in the doorway. You could even add another cab next to it after that, carrying the run into the dr/lr. I love Nalcar's use of trim!

Is this what you have in mind?
{{!gwi}}

Clay, that's a good idea too but that's the ceiling height in the kitchen so there would have to be some kind of wall there anyway.

Nalcar, thanks so much! That's pretty close and you even got close to the color granite I'm doing! (Maybe mine's a little bluer). You're totally awesome for doing that, I so appreciate it.

Question: Did you pick that height and not the complete width for aesthetic reasons? I don't know that there is any "right" one but I like what you chose.

I was just looking through and Ikea sells buffets that are just around that height and width, so I suppose leaving as is isn't unheard of, but I really like the setup you have there.

If you have any resale concerns fdown the road, while I can see some added function out of a hutch, what is pictured there looks like a mistake to me. It's chopped at the top, probably uncomfortably high for most folks below, and stuck inthe doorway to boot. It also doesn't match or tie in very well with all those bookshelves.

I thing any of the options goin up would be good. If you don't want to add a cabinet (more expense and some delay, true), box it in with dry wall but leave the kitchen side open for a little nook for display, cookbooks that aren't used that often, or just have a cabinet door put on it while the sides and backs are still drywall. I think that's a great way to turn something of a challenge into a plus.

I normally love hutches but have to say I prefer nalcar's tall cabinet idea a little better than the hutch idea that she was able to post for you - to me, the first doesn't make the kitchen look like it's extending into the dining room. Also like the idea of putting a door on it for storage.

A key thing to remember is that this is 5-6" out from that entryway. Any soffit is going to have to bridge that gap and I think that will look strange.

Second, this is for me; I'm not worried about resale at all. I plan to be here a long time (it's already been seven years) and in Manhattan, things tend to get snapped up and people seem to rip out lovely kitchens on a dime and do what they want with them anyway.

I like the hutch, but with it moved more into the dining room and with a half wall or full wall put back up. IMHO the cabinet ought to be either IN the dining room or IN the kitchen. You could even put an overhang on your counter (or half wall) just enough to slide a stool under. Might be a nice "perching" spot.

Going into the dining room for a some items with the size of your kitchen and with it being a direct shot doesn't seem like it would be all that inconvient. Is there any way you could return the cabinets?

It's not goint to look nearly as funny to wrap the wall or soffit -- as Nalcar did in either of those mack ups, than to have a chopped off hutch stuck in a doorway. It's jarring, really, especially in contrast with your built-ins.

You said you were hoping soeone would say it was okay -- well, nalcar has given you two wasy to dress it off and make it okay with very little cost (pratically scrap lumber and sheetrock). I've suggested making use of that additional space above for display or storage -- extremely valuable in small kitchens.

Even if resale is no issue (falling markets and all), do think about how you will feel about it after a while. Doing, undoing and redoing always costs a lot more.

Mom2lilenj, I could move the whole unit over, but not by much as you can see there is a wall-through A/C unit there (you can see it in the first picture) and that absolutely can't be moved. I'm not home but I would say it's about 6" away from where the endpoint would be of a side-by-side (30") cabinet. Also, the cab-unit fits the decor of the kitchen, not the DR/LR, so I don't know if it would work.

Lascatx, but what about the fact that it is 6" away and not in the corner? It can't look like her drawing. And as such, it's not in the doorway, the drawing is off in that respect.

Actually the "offset" you are worrying about only adds an opportunity for further articulation and richness for your design. I love the added dimension of the "column" thus created.{{!gwi}}

The purpose these images is to give inspiration, not to be a working drawing. You need to use your imagination to make it work exactly in your situation.

You can do a hutch if you like; I think you should have what appeals to you even if others don't agree with that idea. I was hoping that showing it to you might prove to you that it is not preferable... Obviously most people don't prefer it, but You know what will work best in your space and will live with it. Good luck whichever you choose to do! BTW, I am a GUY, not a "She"!!! ( and I am a designer)

LOL, I don't know why, I thought you were a guy and then someone said "she" and I thought, "whoops!"

You know, I realize all the times I've read here when people say they feel sick what they mean. I literally feel sick. I can't find a solution I like and I am out of money. I'm glad I'm going away this weekend and can hopefully be distracted.

Anyway, I totally appreciate your drawings and wonder if you would do me one more, just for comparison: the side by side *without* the hutch, just granite on top. Thanks so much!

I definitely prefer the taller closed-in single pantry cabinet. The 'bar height' counter + hutch looks like a mistake, and out of place.

LOL For some readon I thought nalcar was a guy until someone said "she." Don't know why.

I think what you are asking about is that the pantry is partially inside that line with the doorway and opposite wall and partially outside of it. Like nalcar said, you have to be looking right at the real thing to work out the details, but you may find that the wall creates itself without a problem. That space on the inside might create a display opportunity or a spot to hang something. You may find that the angled transom above the doorway seems better to you. You might find that bringing the doorway down to the line where the lower trim runs makes it feel right. Invest a buck (or two in NYC) in a couple of sheets of poster board (I've even been known to use a sheet taped up to give me a feel form something I am considering or show it to DH who can't picture anything). Cut them, paint them, tape them up and look at them a while.

Just looking at pictures, I'd probably favor angling that transom and having additional storage. Looking at the drop down of the kitchen ceiling, I think you'd get best use of that space to just get another cabinet or door for that upper part. It looks like your place is old enough to have some "character" and charm and that you can make your solution work with that instead of fighting it.

Consider yourself fortunate to have a weekend to think on it. That's a very good thing to do. Play with it and look for a way to turn a challenge (a minus) to a plus. Make the quirks work for you.

I really like the tall cabinet that Nalcar just did -- it looks purposeful. The cabinet like it is now (to me) looks like a mistake -- oops we mismeasured and the cabinet doesn't fit in the kitchen. Because although you opened up the area to some degree it is not "open" because the door serves to define the space between the two rooms and I don't feel like the kitchen can flow into the dining room without being jarring. I am a huge hutch person but the hutch doesn't look like it works here.

I totally understand that "sick feeling" no fun.

I have to go, I'm off to the country, as it were, but I thank you all so much.

I don't know why, I am just not feeling the pantry going to the ceiling. Maybe because I can see the room in my mind and think it would not fit with the rest. I am beginning to wonder if I should just lose the whole thing, stick it in my bedroom (perfect size for sweaters!) and end with that last base cab...

Anyway, thanks again, I will return when I can!

I know you said you're leaving, but in case I catch you could you put together a sketch of your kitchen/dining, either scaled with graph paper or labeled with dimensions?

If you're not liking how the cabinets are fitting and have another place for them, then moving them to where it is more suited may be the way to go. And then you could purchase something that fits better and gives you the storage you need.

Here is what you asked for. I'm not sure it enhances your classic spaces and architecture as would other solutions, so I'm not so excited about a remodel ending up with just this. However, this may give you a starting point to come to some conclusion.

Good luck ! {{!gwi}}

How about if you can somehow echo the angled wall on the one side of the bookcases in the dining room? Kind of like what bob did with the soffit, but going further with a full wall. I'm not sure if it would give you enough room to place the cabinet, but it might look like it was an original part of the architecture if done well.

Hi again and thanks so much, Nalcar, for those drawings.

I know it goes against prevailing opinion here, but I have thought about it and really like the ending in a side-by-side unit the best. It's the most aesthetically pleasing to my eye and, although it goes further into the DR than I would have wished, it does actually serve a purpose for me as my DR table is small due to the space and this would be a great buffet just near it. As it is, when I have company, I tend to stick beverages and serving dishes that won't fit on the nearby LR coffee table. This would gracefully solve that issue. I even wonder if it's feasible to do a hinged top so that I could get even more space when needed.

I think the thing that stumps me the most is where my tile backsplash would stop in this set-up, as I'm not sure I want it coming all the way out into the DR, which would be necessary if I were to continue the line from the window....

It's great that you found a solution that works for you. I really liked the tall built in one nalcar drew but can see why this one works better for you. It looks good and having a landing there will be quite useful in such a small space.

You don't have to do a backsplash. I lived without one for over a year and it was no problem. There was a post a while ago that showed just a row of 4" painted tiles running along the wall right above the counter with painted wall above it and it looked really nice. I can't remember if the whole wall behind the sink and range were tiled or not. There are some examples of 4" granite backspashes in the finished kitchens blog. The downside is that the kitchen and dining room have to painted the same color, but I think that would look better than trying to run a full backsplash over the cabinet that's in both rooms.

Here is a link that might be useful: FKB

I did actually go through that last night! It was when I couldn't find anything that remotely resembled my situation, a cabinet run trailing off into another room with a window and no definite endpoint (like a wall cab or door), that I decided to ask here. (OK, I got up to S before my eyes began to burn, but that's most of them!)

I've already picked out my tiles, I really love them so don't want to go the paint route for the whole kitchen. That's an interesting idea to just do a couple of rows, and then it would hit the end of that cab. I could do that from where that last wall cab is until the "buffet" cab. Or from the window, not sure. There is a 2-inch distance between.

Something to consider...separate the "extra" cabinet from the other kitchen cabinets by building a narrow half-wall b/w them. It think it should be a few inches higher than either cabinet + countertop. The half wall then becomes your natural stopping point. Make the wall as narrow as possible, but not so narrow that it isn't obvious.

I don't have PhotoShop or other sw to use to see how it would look....maybe someone else here could? Nalcar? Bob_cville?

The trouble is, not seen in the drawing but in my original photos, there is a wall-through A/C unit just to the right which can't be moved. I pretty much have to stop where I have.

I'd treat it as an unrelated piece of furniture that 'just happens' to sit in that corner of the dining. Who's going to know it's used to store kitchen stuff unless you tell them, and more importantly, who's going to care?

I'd actually bring the left side of the door arch back into play to separate the problem cab from the kitchen, then paint the cab or replace it's doors so it becomes 'just furniture', instead of a built in cab.

This would keep you from having to make it taller-- you could even keep books, a lamp, plants up there...

You could even put feet on it to look more like furniture...

You know what I wish? That I could have just a small hutch, just to take it up to the height of the window.

This isn't really it, obviously, but along these lines without the speakers.

Of course, that might look awful - I don't want to solve one problem by creating another.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pottery Barn hutch

OK, I can offer only this one more solution to try to give your beautiful apartment a designed solution. Even though we dont know your exact room dimensions I think you could split up the cabinets, throw a top on them and use minimal mouldings and a mirror from Target to bring this room home.
(And distract away from the wall A/C)

{{!gwi}}

IMHO Thx good luck!

Nalcar, you're so kind to do all this. And wow, that's really dramatic! The moldings are not so much to my taste, but the split up cabs with the top across is an interesting thought. On the right, though, the wall begins to curve just after the A/C and so I think it would take a lot of work to put a flat cabinet there. I can already hear what my contractor is going to say about that one. I have a really strange apartment with very odd lines so I've been hearing a lot of that!

Also, that puts the Shaker door cab very close to the built-ins which have a door in a different style. You can see them in my pic in the post on 10/31 at 8:12. What do you think?

I'd also have to consider the cost of the extra granite at this point.

Oh, and the usual distraction from the wall A/C is a chair in front of it and a framed picture on top. Well, no chair during the summer. :D

I second buehl's half wall idea. I think it would look less like the kitchen is encroaching on the dining room and more like a separate dining buffet-like cabinet.

And WOW nalcar! Having a wider buffet would be even better if you could get it work. Maybe show these ideas to your contractor and get his opinion on what is feasible.

Alas, the contractor says the long buffet is a no go. He also pointed out that it would take two feet out of my already teeny DR. It's looking right now like it is just going to be the side-by-side and really, I am satisfied with that.

The question for me now is how to make a tile backsplash work. That is, where to end it.

bump