{{gwi:1756603}}
{{gwi:1756605}}

Is that a petite island? I think a rollable cart might work better if you're going that small.

I don't think the range wall looks funny at all, but it might be too close to the table.

Yes, that is a small island only 24" x 48". Its actually designed with legs on it to look like furniture. Perhaps I will look into a rollable one and see how that changes things.

The designer had pushed the table over so we could get the side views. I will have a smaller 4 person round table that should be more centered.

Its hard to tell on the deisgn because we didn't draw in stools but the wall right under the dining table is a breakfast bar with stools that will be on the living room side. I will be drawing up the side ways views and posting them in a bit.

By my calculations you will only have 36" aisleways on either side of the island. Is that right. That's awfully narrow. It will be even less with the counter overhang which is typically 1 1/2".
Now I get the comment about the ears. I didn't understand it on your other post. I like this set up. Where did the microwave go?

I don't understand, in this layout, where one might actually prepare a meal.

The microwave is in a drawer cabinet on the refrigerator wall. My main concern is that I'm not sure how well will we like a drawer microwave.

Re the Island, I think that that I'm going to take fori's advice and look for cart style portable islands. Even moved over it still may crowd things. Only question I have on that is if I don't make it stationary, I won't be able have power run to it and I planned to use that spot for using my mixer etc. I would have put an outlet on it. If we moved it toward the refrigerator wall all the way so its even with the end of the dishwasher wall, its a little less encroaching on the stove wall. Thoughts?

I have some rough drawings of the placement of the cabinets on each wall (other than the stove which we have a nice drawing of) I scanned them in so you could see them too. I apologize for the amateur quality.

{{gwi:1756606}}
{{gwi:1756607}}

{{gwi:1756608}}

I will post this separate also but has anyone ever used manhattaninteriordesigns? They have the most beautiful scrolled copper farmhouse sink that I want for my sink. I am just leary of dealing with a company on the internet for such a big ticket item without knowing they are on the level. I'd feel better knowing someone hear has dealt with them successfully. Sink Link

marcolo, My plan for Prep area is the island and/or the 18" of counter on either side of the stove. The breakfast bar area in the dining room is really not meant to be functionally used during food preparation but more for entertaining and gathering.

Do you cook? Is function important to you, or are you focused on form?

definitely not enough counter space. and how will you use that little island for your mixer? you have it spec'd at 24x48. there's no room to set bowls and other necessities down and then work dough. i use several mixing bowls at a time plus ingredients and the mixer and tools.

everything seems so disjointed, not very well thought out. i don't mean to be unkind, but it costs a lot of money for a kitchen. you need to be certain above all, that it will function. is this your first plan?

Ummm....18" of prep space?

Don't take this wrong...but is this going to be a working kitchen or a show kitchen? Do you plan to prepare full meals in this kitchen?

We just need to know how to advise you. There are some people who create kitchens for show only and don't really cook...that's fine for them. Everyone is different and the kitchen should reflect how you plan to use it.

If this is intended to be a working kitchen, then I think you need to think about workflow in the kitchen as well as reasonable workspace.

I'll hold off on any more advice until we hear from you about how you plan to use your kitchen (show or working) and what is more important to you (form/looks or function).

Hi Buehl/Marcolo, Don't worry about insulting me. I have been reading what you have to say for years, while I've been dreaming of this kitchen. I want to hear your criticism. Because when I do this, I want it to be right for me, and an improvement for me in more ways that just decor.

Yes this is my first plan this go around. I did work with a designer at Lowes but she is putting in what I'm telling her. Yes, I cook some meals, but I am not definitely not cooking a lot in this kitchen. I bake cookies and/or cakes possibly three times a year, so yes, this is not so much a working kitchen for me. I am doing this change to doll up my kitchen, and I want everything to be the way I intend it from now until way after I retire. The house is the one I plan to stay in as long as I can. I built it and don't intend to sell it. As to whether or not someone else will be able to functionally cook in it I am not concerned about them or resale. I want one I can be happy in for what I do which is not alot of cooking. There are only 2 of us in the house, and perhaps a Thanksgiving dinner I cook for the family every other year. We usually entertain small (maybe couples), and sometimes I cook and sometimes not, thus the entertainment spot. I put that there to try to get folks more incorporated into my living room, than the kitchen. Alot of congregating happens in the kitchen now and aside from a few stools and a small table, its just not right for that.

The stove wall is where I wanted most of my looks because it is open to the living room(thus viewable from there and my front door), but maybe the arch over the stove is enough. I'm not hugely fond of the stove wall as its designed right now...maybe I need to drop the columns and make the wall cabinet wider. Then I'd get the full 27" of working space which would improve on what I have now. I still have the arch over the stove and I'm going to do a tile mural behind the stove. So yes, its all a bit superficial, but I still thought by adding the island, that would make an improvement over what I have now, which sometimes I will agree depending on what I'm doing can result in a bit of a

Right now I have a nearly identical set up on the fridge and the dishwasher walls. The difference being that the sink is a corner one, there is a wall separating the kitchen and dining areas and on that wall is an 18" cabinet, my flat top stove and another 18" cabinet. I don't have an island but I do have a little round table that I have used as prep, but usually only if I bake cookies or something, and then I agree my kitchen can look a bit disjointed with cookie sheets on all counter space available. Otherwise, I sometimes prepare on the stove or put my mixer on the 18 area next to the stove. I do sometimes use the long run by the dishwasher for veggie prep. Sometimes we use the cabinet to the left of the fridge to make sandwiches etc.

But again, I am not cooking all the time, and yes, this kitchen will be primarily for show. But I definitely want it to be at least as functional as what I have now, and if possible an improvement.

I am considering several changes to the plan above now: #1 - think about a portable island and if I keep it, it needs to slide over closer to the refrigerator wall, #2 - change the plan so the stove wall has no columns but instead has larger wall cabinets on either side of the stove. I do like the spice columns though, so perhaps put 2 built in 3" spice columns on either side of the stove that look like trim ie fluted with rosettes, and the cabinets will become 24" wides,and finally #3 - I am going to change the pantry wall to 2 24"s and eliminate the 9" one. There will instead be a 3" trim piece there, flutes with rosettes.

You might explore an alternative that has the kitchen in the left side of the room, where your dining table/breakfast bar now sits, and using the right side of the room for dining and entertaining. I am not sure where the wide passage at the top right of the drawing leads to (exterior? another room?), but if it looks out on something pretty, that wouldn't be a bad spot for dining.

The current plan is really non-functional. There is not enough counter on either side of the range to prep, the mantle will further cramp those counters, neither sink nor food are anywhere close by, and a cook will want that space for landing area anyway. The counter by the sink looks largely devoted to dishwashing and dish storage, with no room for prep supplies, and by the way, water will splash on the floor by the sink. The pantry wall seems oversized if one isn't planning to cook much - perhaps it would be better used as a bar, serving sideboard, and glass-front display for china and stemware. The island is too small for prep, food will tend to spill over the edge, it is really just sized to be a landing space/serving spot.

I do understand you are primarily looking for a ''show kitchen'', which is a valid choice and honestly stated. But form does reflect function, to some degree, and a non-functional kitchen will be disadvantaged in the ''looks'' department, at least for those guests who do cook. And you did say that you wanted some degree of functional improvement.

I do think it would be worth getting the overall layout sorted, before planning the flutes and rosettes and other decorative elements.

I don't know kitchen code--I don't suppose you could put an outlet in the floor like they do in dry areas?

I hear ya about the cookie sheets! But that's why you have a table nearby. People have to eat at the bar when you're baking cookies. They won't mind if you feed them cookies.

(By the way, the amateurish drawings are way better than the detailed ones, for me anyway. Don't be embarrassed. They are fine. )

What is in the lower right corner, between the sink and fridge walls?

OK. I was good. I let othesr say it first. That kitchen layout is not "less than ideal." It's a functional train wreck. It is a room with cabinets and appliances in it. But it is not a kitchen. I don't even think it will look that good--it will look like the room spun around in a centrifuge until all the cabinetry flew off to the perimeter.

I second, and was about to suggest, johnliu's idea of moving the whole kitchen to the left of the room. You could certainly still keep the entertainment bar. I am also wondering if dispensing with the run on the bottom of the kitchen could enable you to have a grander, more functional and nicer-looking island.

M-girl, would it be possible to post a rough plan of the rest of the house? It would be helpful to know to whence the various passages from the kitchen lead. You have a promising space, and I think it can be both showy and functional.

LOL! Johnliu & Marcolo beat me to it! I was going to suggest something similar!

Depending on where the doors on the "bottom" lead, I was going to suggest possibly consolidating the doors in the middle and moving the "kitchen" to the left and the table area to the right. It would provide you with more contiguous wall space to make it a bit more functional while keeping the "look".

However, it all depends on: Where do the two doorways on the bottom lead? The same room? Connected rooms? Separate rooms?
How high off the floor are the windows on the "top left"?
Is it important the LR counter seating be where it is, or could it be moved to the right? (Assuming the two doorways can be consolidated or moved.)

Just looked at the pics again and it looks like the window is 24" off the floor. Can the window be raised?

The workspaces seem small and disjointed to me. I am not a designer or expert, so I may be way off base with suggestions.

As buehl asked, can you raise the window? If so, that would probably give you some better connected wall space to work with.

If you cannot raise the window, What if you were to flip-flop the location of the eating table? Put a run down the currently blank wall behind the table including your range (with the feature mantle-style hood you want). Use the elbow (which I think you're saying is open to the living room) for the sink or maybe a prep sink. And the current top range area for the fridge. Then the wall across from the range could be used either for a main cleanup sink or pantry and other landing space. This would allow your beautiful range area to still be a focus, but keep your prep/cooking area more together.

I look forward to seeing what the actual experts suggest.

I'm attaching a link to my house plan. my house is that Augusta plan reversed. So in my new plan, the bar is open to the living room.

How much work space do I need? My kitchen isn't the smallest kitchen, and even if I had the pantries as counter instead, I would still have only added 48" of counter there when I originally built my house. And after making meals here, I can't imagine having to sit and prep my meals anywhere that far away from the stove? If I take out the columns from the stove and replace the smaller cabinet with a larger 30" x 27 cabinet, I get full use of the 27" on either side of the stove so 54" total counter there vs 36" in the plan so I'm gaining 18" of space. Plus I'm adding another 48" of counter with the island (rolling or not).

My dining room space is smaller than my kitchen space so I don't see how I'd gain anything there? Especially considering that I'd be paying to move all the water, and electric in there. I was trying to enhance things without paying for all the items in the kitchen from being moved. For the most part, I enjoy my kitchen layout and am where things are.

I was also hoping not to have to change the structure of the house (windows or doors) but I'd would like and would rather make the kitchen sliding glass doors a single french door and work with adding counter/cabinet to the stove wall which would go from 8" to 11 ft. I am worried however with matching my siding although I suppose that they can without trouble My house is 12 years old. I am on a wooded lot so I really do like having the large window in the dining room. I don't have another window on the other wall in the dining room so I want to keep that huge window. But if we do something with the sliding glass doors, that gives me almost 36" inches?

What do you guys think of that idea? I think that may make things a bit more workable. I am excited to hear what you think.

Here is a link that might be useful: My House Plan

All right! Midnightgirl, get ready for some great ideas to start pouring in.

You certainly do have space for an attractive kitchen that can perform all the functions you want and do them well within the same budget. You just need to take your space in hand and tell it what it's going to do for you, not vice versa. Have fun!

MidnightGirl, Your space is disjointed and it will look so as well as function as such. In that relatively vast area, it seems to many here that you can get a visually as well as functionally viable kitchen in there.

That said, I don't think you need to flip rooms to get what you want. If you move your sink base in closer to the stove area (effectively combine sink-island and island-island a la Bosche's kitchen from the FKB you may have what you need. Your kitchen space looks like it could import vast elements of Bosche's to get the visual as well as technical impact you need.

Unf. Bosche's photo repository is gone but the few pics there may give you some guidance. Also, if you go to the link to her house at the architect's page you get a full-room view by scrolling through the pics. That might put the few pics on the FKB into some perspective.