Removing the cap, repairing the drywall and laying more tile? After you've already paid them 5K? I know plenty of tile setters who would do it for free given all of the other work you've had them do in this house. But, for someone nickle and diming you, maybe $50-$75 if the drywall damage was enough that they had to hot mud and wait a bit for that to set. It's more for the extra time than it is the actual tile setting.

Would you believe they quoted me $1160.00 to add the one row in this bath and in another bath where the tiles are not even laid yet, they quoted me $1260.

(No, that is NOT an extra 0. These people are CROOKS. I'll be sharing their name shortly for everyone to see if this is not immediately resolved!

I agree with GreenDesigns....when we were discussing tile with our builder, he had in the contract tile to 7' (i think) and we said we wanted to the ceiling, and he came back with "ok". Nothing about extra $. So, the effort is clearly nothing. And, while they do have to spend a little time correcting this, it's such a small effort, they are definitely nickel and diming you.

Given the size of this project they have with you, I wouldn't pay anything for that.

Looks to me it might be more than one row of extra tile. With the border tile it might be one row, with out it, you might have a thin cut row up there. This looks like 12" tile. What is the distance from the upper full row of main tile to the ceiling (with out the border)?
I really hope that without the border, you have 12" or little less, else this is yet another can of worms.
Pretty mural, tho.

Sounds like they went to the BofA school of tile laying.

holy cow beagles - that's CRAZY!!!

how much more do these guys have to do? Can you get rid of them?

Why was this not caught before the trim was all finish? Just wondering. Now I, would find out what their cost is for putting up the tile, and ask them to do it for half the cost. Because they are probably going to say that you, did not tell them to go way up to the ceiling. Some people you, have to tell them more than once to do what you, want. Or watch them like a hawk.

No, that is not reasonable IMO. I don't think the original $5000.00 was reasonable, let alone another $1160.00.

Sorry you are having so much trouble with them. These are the things that take the joy out of building.

I hate to say this beagles... but I think they are doing this because they feel they can. They see your home, the finishes you are installing, and know what they've charged you thus far. Just know that the end result of your home will be spectacular. Sorry for your frustration.

I agree with remodelfla, They see your money... There is no way with all the work they are doing in your house that they should charge you a nickle more for the job. Don't you have ALOT of tile left over from the job? That should have rung a bell in their heads. Good luck! Stay strong, by not being on site I would recommend that you write out expectations of each job and post in each room they are to do. Hope this is resolved with out issue..CJC

Your problem starts when he gave you a contract that said tile to 7'-0, and you told him you wanted it higher, and no one changed the contract. Should he have told you then and there how much more for the additional tile? Yes. Should you have asked if there would be a change in the cost? Absolutely.

You should ask him how much per hour is he charging for labor. Then you will know what the value of this would be.

Felix, our "contract" did not specify a height. They just gave us a cost per room. That was our first mistake, accepting that. This is why it is not easy to get rid of them although goodness knows I want to. As some of you may remember from the other thread, they already had to redo this bathroom once.

I agree with all the other comments as well.

Unless they agree to fix it on their dime (or at least, for substantially less than that ridiculous estimate), I'd just tell them that you'll get somebody else to fix it. Having another tiler come in will be less money and less frustration. It's possible that just the threat will help to resolve the situation and you won't actually have to hire another tile guy.

FWIW, my GC estimated $1000 for ALL the tilework in our recent bath remodel - floors, up to 8' in the tub/shower, and up to 5' on the walls - for about a 70 square foot floor area.

That's what it looks like we're going to do anenemity. Not happily since this should not be necessary but that's the resolution that seems to make the most sense.

And as your estimate once again confirms, we got ripped off. In a MAJOR way. Once these people are done with our house and OUT of our house, I'm going to post their name, along with the pictures of the bathrooms, the cost and a detailed description of the problems we have had, both here and on Angie's List, Yelp, and just about anywhere else that I can locate. At least my negative experience can be a cautionary tale and I can hopefully help to make sure no one is ripped off by them!!!

don't forget to file a complaint with your state registrar of contractors.

Can I do that desertsteph just on the basis of them being overpriced and difficult to work with?

They have, so far, redone all problems (although we're currently disputing over whether they will redo a listello that is installed incorrectly because the pattern did not line up). While their work is far from spectacular, I don't know if a complaint would work just on the basis of overcharging for adequate work? If it would, I will certainly make one.

You need to get the new charge in writing to help substantiate your claim. I'd call your local consumer affairs dept and inquire about filing a claim.

It seems like they are trying to recoup for the extra labor in correcting their other mistakes by blatantly overcharging you to fix yet another mess. That happened with our architect. He moaned that our project took so long, but it was not us that made him keep redoing the plans, but the town, because they were not drawn correctly for the codes. It took many revisions and additions to even get it accepted by the town.
We found more mistakes after the work started. He had to nerve to charge us for redrawing the plans when the beams in the ceiling over our bedroom side as drawn did not match the reality of our existing house. He had assumed the direction they went and never went into our stand up attic over to that section. He wanted an additional $1,500 to redraw and we paid half up front (under protest). After it was drawn, when he wanted the rest, my husband insisted on talking to him on the phone (dh was at work). The architect got off the phone and told me not worry about the rest. I am not sure what my husband said, but it worked! If we had paid a dime more, we'd be suing him too, but I am just so worn out from dealing with the lousy gc that this one will probably slide by.....

Are the details of the tile installation in writing? If not, I can see how things could get confusing...you know the whole "assuming" thing. If they are in writing, then you have your proof there and shouldn't have to pay a dime more.

"We thought the tiles were going to the ceiling in the tub, they thought they aren't...." - lots of writing about their thinking and your thinking.

Sometimes communication (including saying things more than once) works.
Sometimes communication (including saying things in blunt blasts) works.
Sometimes not.
Since I wasn't observing as the job got started, I cannot comment on this job.

The below outlines the full extent of the details we had originally on this installation (italics):

Jack and Jill Bathroom
Floor: 12x12 Catarina Coliseum Series laid straight
Tub Deck Face: 12x12 Catarina Coliseum cut to 6x6 with 2 6x6 decos installed but not furnish by XXX
Tub Surround: 12x12 Catarina Coliseum cut to 6x6 with glass mural installed but not furnished by XXX.
We have included Ditra Mat subfloor as well as Kerdi board in the tub surround. Tub deck face is to be drywall by others.
Total Cost: $5,000.00

They ended up not being able to cut the tiles to 6x6 so we got a TINY deduction for the cost of that. That was ALL we got by way of quote/ signed proposal.

Don't even get me started on the laundry room floors, which were about 100 square feet of $1.00/sq foot tile for $1900!!! See below:
Laundry Room Floors
Tile floors only. Pans are to be by others.
Mohawk Laredo II Camel 12x12 laid straight
Ditra Mat subfloor is included.
Total Cost: $1,900.00

We were VERY stupid to have agreed to these prices and to have accepted the quote this way. We did not know and everyone else we worked with was very honest and people kept telling me my choices were so expensive, so we just assumed this was fine. I've never tiled anything before, this is my first house and our first build and we trusted that we would not be cheated by someone our builder sent us to.

That's all water under the bridge and our own fault for being stupid. However, for these prices, this tile needs to be done RIGHT. And they should NOT be gouging us on the extra row of tiles.

I have the new quote in writing in an email as well:

The tile was figured up to this height and additional costs will
need to be approved before we take this tile any higher.... These
costs will also need to be approved before the work is performed. The
additional costs are as follows:

Guest Bath $1,260.00
Jack and Jill $1,160.00

They had to replace the "marble" tiles in this bathroom once. Now, there are another 4 they have to tear out because they put four tiles with the exact same pattern facing the exact same way right in a row.

They have to redo the bathroom with the stone impressions upstairs (remember that debacle) because they cut the tiles without figuring in the tile rug.

The listello on another tile mural has to be redone because the patterns don't line up (we're fighting them on this too).

In my opinion, they already tried to make up some of the cost of this once by inexplicably changing the cost on a granite fireplace from $750-$1500 (they claim they raised that price because they forgot to factor in the hearth on the floor. Mind you, these prices were for material we already bought because the fireplace is being made from slabs from the kitchen.)

Our response to that was to pull all of our granite business from them and go to another company who is charging us significantly less for more and better quality work. ($656 for the fireplace, for example) We wanted to pull our granite business from them anyway since we saw a seam that they did and it was horrible, so that worked out for the best.

Then, a week later, they emailed our builder and told him they did not want to do our granite because I was unfairly picking apart their work because I requested that my tiles be straight (?) Kind of a "You're fired... I quit" situation if I've ever seen one!

Your mural is pretty :)

davidro1 the point is not that I am blaming them for the tiles being incorrectly installed (in this case). The point is that they are trying to charge $1260 to install 13 tiles.

Our contractor quoted $1200.00 for installing 90 sq/ft of subway backsplash tile. (We're doing it ourselves, but thought I would throw it out for comparison).

Why is your builder out of the loop on this? If he recommended these people, he needs to be ensuring your satisfaction.

I would be raising cain with the builder. You had enough with your first few problems to fire the tile layer in my books. Now leagally, I don't know. It sure appears you are paying way over the top prices for mediocre work.

Who determined how much tile to order for the project? I read the contract as saying they bid to lay the amount of tile you provided.

Every time I see this I want to drive up there and kick someone in the b@lls with my #12 waffle stompers.

Too much caffeine, perhaps.

They are pricing it so high because A) they can or B) they don't want to do the work for you so they've given you a quote so high they know no one reasonable would bite or C) both....it's only worth it to them if you do pay exorbitantly.

There's a simple market solution...get someone else. Unless you live halfway to the moon or something?

And no. You have no legal complaint about them overpricing. Bad quality, yes. Not delivering what you contracted for, yes. Giving you a price that you wish hadn't accepted, no. You CAN ream them out on sites like Angies' List for being overpriced as well as being hard to communicate with, idiots and lousy human beings.

Beagles,

I'm afraid you're in a position to be left to hang to dry on this one.

Did you have that contract reviewed by your attorney before your signed? That's a pitiful contract. "Tub surround Catarina Coliseum cut to 6x6 with ... " ???? What is that? That is an open invitation for just this sort of thing ... tub surround to what height? To what extension? Were there graphics that you provided them to accompany the task? Or did you sign off on a graphic that they did? If you did neither, then yes, you're in the unfortunate position with little recourse, I'm afraid.

I'm not defending them - I don't especially like that tile layout - but this is a classic "potato/potahto" situation. You don't like their design but you never told them what design you do like and what you want them to do.

And unfortunately, I don't know if your argument that they are now being unreasonable to redo the layout that they costed to - that you never asked to see - to finish the job will hold up. The fact is that one only needs to be reasonable for self-interest i.e. at the start to get the job. At the end, there is no incentive for them to be reasonable and there is little legal or other option you have for expecting reasonableness of them now. The new estimates they come back to you with will be what they'll call a change order. And you know that change orders cost more than god.

You can not threaten them with a darn thing that they can be afraid of now - unless you can point to substandard work.
Not liking their design isn't sufficient.

Sadly, crooks like this exist. We had their cousins apparently work for us on the carpentry, plumbing as well as the tiling. The GC wasn't a crook but he was an idiot and his contractors (the above mentioned ) were crooks of the first water. Eventually, we paid them (essentially) to not finish the work, to please get the hell out and we had a very good capable and knowledgeable GC with skilled contractors come by and paid him to fiinish the job. We paid through the nose also - our tiling jobs weren't quite as much as yours I don't think but they were close and it was 6 years ago. Certainly not ballpark 1K-2K stuff.

All this to say that stop trying to expect reasonableness from them. I don't think you want them to finish your job. You want them gone. get another contractor.

WhiteRiverSooner, our builder is trying to help. He really is. These people are just so unreasonable that there really is no middle ground. I mean, even if they split the difference, it would be far too much. I still would highly recommend my builder to anyone, with the caveat and warning NOT to go near these tile people EVER. My builder has worked with them in the past and I gather there were no problems like this and my builder has been wonderful, as have all other subcontractors, many of whom have gone well beyond the call of duty and who produce beautiful work that they take pride in (you've all seen me go on and on about my wonderful cabinet maker).

My personal opinion is that the very first purchase we made from them before we had prices on anything else was two very costly granite slabs (2 bookmatched slabs of blue bahia) and dollar signs began to dance in their heads.

We are also working with a different person at the store than my builder has worked with before and he is just pretty darn terrible. Half the time when he would come out to see us, it appeared as if we had woken him from a nap. He is, however, the son of the tile store's owner. So, there's not very much recourse on that end.

The tile we were providing was the decos (the mural and the other little tiles on the front).

Thank you weedmeister. And LOL. And do you want the address? ;)

house_obsessed my issue is quality/price. If we had paid these prices and everything had been spectacular, we would not have complained. And we WILL be posting reviews. I'll be starting threads here in all relevant forums, and posting on every single review website I can possibly find. I'm just waiting for them to finish and leave and then the floodgates will open.

The market solution of finding someone else will work fine for this new row of tiles and that is what we are doing. But they need to do the other work they are contracted for in an acceptable manner. We CANNOT fire them because of the way this contract is written. I asked my builder about that this morning and it would be very, very difficult to get rid of these people and determine how much should reasonably be paid. Impossible. If I could fire them, they would have been gone a LONG time ago.

mindstorm, ready to laugh. I AM an attorney (non-practicing). We were very, very trusting BECAUSE we like our builder and because everyone else has been honest and because every single person we talked to spoke so highly of our builder, so we just assumed the subcontractors would also be good. We are now aware that is a faulty assumption.

Like I said, my problem is NOT that they won't add the extra row of tiles for free (although I believe they should). My problem is that charging us an extra $2400+ to do this tiny amount of work is NOT acceptable.

I AM an attorney (non-practicing). We were very, very trusting BECAUSE we like our builder and because everyone else has been honest and because every single person we talked to spoke so highly of our builder, so we just assumed the subcontractors would also be good.

I must confess it is very puzzling to read this from an attny. You more than anyone know that a contract isn't to protect against a bad contractor but to define the full set of parameters for your job and to define expectation - both for you and the contractor.
Ok, you know that already. I won't go on.

Like I said, my problem is NOT that they won't add the extra row of tiles for free (although I believe they should). My problem is that charging us an extra $2400+ to do this tiny amount of work is NOT acceptable.

Then you won't accept it and won't take their offer, will you? They can price what ever they want to, beagles; you need to start to get this. You want the job done more than they do, ergo they have you by the short hairs now - they can offer you whatever price they want to at this point because you are asking for a change of scope/task. (Small matter that you didn't know that this was the task you accept.). And they will be able to defend that argument in a court of law - I can present at least 3 good ways they can do that and I'm not a tiler, builder, contractor nor do I sell anything.

You have to accept that they hold the cards now unless you are prepared to kick 'em out. I would dust off your attorney skills, brush up on the legal lingo and put on your best lawyer face at the next meeting with them. If you haven't brought a contract lawyer into the picture so far, it's time to start showing them that that's because they are dealing with a lawyer and give them the impetus to get off your task before they land into hot water.

I don't understand what sort of contract precludes you from refusing their generous $2400+ new offer to install the remaining tiles. I doubt that your GC is really as kindly as you think he is that he can't have any leverage with the tile store to get the quality of installation OR that the tile store can treat his job in so cavalier a manner. Either your expectations of quality (speaking to your references that the installation has been substandard elsewhere) are out of the "market norm" or the GC/builder is not doing nearly as much as he ought.

How come you didn't go over things like tile layout with your GC? We had a designer as well as a GC and everything down to material selections, tile layout etc. were defined well before any contractor ever entered into the picture. We still had things go wrong because 3 of the trades were dodgy and the GC a dud, but at least we could point very clearly to the expectation - it was there in black and white down to where the tile cuts would be made or how the small glass mosaic bands would run and where those cuts would be.

I am afraid that you're not getting the right level of interface to these clowns. As a homeowner without advanced degrees in tiling, you don't have the skill to know what to ask or how it should be done but then again, it isn't the job of the tiler to give you what you want when you don't know to ask for it. Someone needs to be in the picture to tell you what to ask for - usually that is a designer or the builder. Otherwise you'll get the "market norm" which is what your shower tile job is looking like.

We had a picture attached, but it was a photoshop drawing that I made and they interpreted the drawing differently than we did. We had probably 50 meetings with these people and discussed everything EXCEPT it never occurred to me to ask whether the tiles would go to the ceiling or not because I have never seen it any other way.

We're not accepting their offer, no. We made very clear we are not getting anything else done by these people, and we aren't. We are finding someone else to finish the tiling of these two showers. I had just wanted to make sure that I was not being unreasonable in getting angry about this new proposed cost before I made a big fuss and refused. Our builder is finding us someone else and he is stuck in the middle of this and I wanted to be sure that these prices for the extra row of tile were not reasonable before I set up a situation where he now has to deal with getting someone else. He has to meet with these old tile people to figure out a way for them to lay the tiles on the back of the tub in the other bathroom (which have a designed pattern) and then have someone else come in to do a single row of tiles, so that the pattern on the back of the tub is not messed up. It is not going to be easy for him to deal with this and if the prices these people had given were reasonable, I wouldn't have had a right to insist on it. That was why I started this thread- to ask if the prices were reasonable. Then, it sort of veered off topic into a general complaint.

All I want now is for them to do the rest of the stuff correctly. Our builder is making them fix the problems with the pattern not lining up, although they do not want to, and he also made them correct other things, so he is representing our interests as much as he can.

I'm sorry but I have to agree with Mindstorm on this. Attorney-practicing or not should know notto make assumptions and to be very specific in your contracts as to what the job is and what is expected. This "he said-she said" business doesn't hold water. If you wanted the tile to go to the ceiling it should have been in writing.
You're complaining about being overcharged for the job and I really can't express much sympathy on that. You accepted their bid! Did you get any recommendations or view some of their prior projects? It appears that they completed the job to a typical height. If you're not there to supervise and make certain they understand your special requests, I don't think you have much to complain about. Their time and labor is worth as much to them as you consider your time to be! It's going to take time for them to remove those tiles and the tiles, as well as the backer board may very well be damaged in the process. Why should they do this for free, when nothing was specifically stated in the contract to prove that it is actually there mistake vs the whim of the homeowner just wanting a change?

My opinion is when you spend many thousands of dollars with someone, they should try to make sure you are happy. If there is a miscommunication, at a minimum, they should behave in a reasonable manner. While I think it would be NICE to do it for free since we are not happy and since we spent so much with this company, I would be willing to pay a REASONABLE cost and I admitted to fault on this error. I am NOT blaming them for not knowing the tiles were to go to the ceiling. I AM angry because it is NOT reasonable to charge $2400 to lay 2 rows of tile and because this now creates a major hassle because they will not be reasonable about costs on the extra row of tile.

The reason I am complaining about the price is because of the quality. We would not be complaining if they had done everything right. They have not. When you charge premium prices, you should do premium quality work. If they had done that, everything would be fine (this bathroom quality is fine- this time, they already laid it twice. But there are other problems.)

Yes, I know we were wrong not to get a detailed contract. As I said, we spent a very long time with these people and we were trusting of them. That was a mistake. We're moving on from the mistake.

Again, the only reason I am upset is because of the ridiculous charge for a very small change when we have already been charged so much!

Good luck, I'm sure you'll find a way to beat them into submission. beaglesdoitbetter you seem able to defend your point of view. Metaphorically beat them, not physically. It's worth the money saved. With some working class types you first have to change personality a bit before they incline themselves to your view. So far, they have been the ones dictating terms and conditions, psychologically. Grind them down.

Based on what was written, they, as professionals, should have known to get more info and to double check at time of installation. There was plenty of tile left over, and that could have been a clue once they were nearing completion.
As a layperson, you are not expected to know what a tiler needs to know before starting a project. I know that customers often tell us what they want or picture, but it is my job to ask what they have not offered and get a clearer picture in my mind of what they want. The professional should know what they need to know to do their job. I would imagine that this is a question that should come up every time they do a shower. Both heights are valid and they should know that and offer a choice to every customer/client, even if only to save themselves from having this become a hassle half the time and causing hard feelings. It seems almost willful that they did not bother to find out in advance or even the day of the installation.
They are trying to upcharge you unfairly and that is unethical and obvious. It is clear they are trying to get away with either doing less or they want a ridiculous amount to complete the job.
Hold firm and let them know you will pursue this in court. Even if you lose, it will cost them time and money to get it dismissed and they will want to avoid that. Time spent in court is time they could be gouging the next homeowner instead. Let them know you are angry on principle and will gladly spend your time to defend what is right. If you can make your eyes look a little crazy, all the better. If they think you are like a pit bull who won't let go, they may cry uncle and finish the job for the original price. Being reasonable has not worked. Try to come across as it will be a bigger hassle to disappoint you than to shut you up by complying.

Just so you know, a general cost to lay tile around here (basic pattern, non-stone) is around 6.00 a square foot . . . we are in the South. Stone is more because it is more difficult to lay (at least that is what they tell me). Your laundry tile would have cost 600.00 here to lay. Did your price include the tile?

Yes, but the tile was $1/ sq. foot cheap stuff. It's not stone.

Dianalo that's what I am hoping. I just sent over an email making clear that a contract that is vague is to be construed against the drafter (them). Since the contract simply specifies "tub surround" and since they had made a comment to me in an email I went back and found that a full wall of tile was more aesthetically pleasing, a reasonable expectation would be that the tile would cover the full wall.

We'll see what happens. I am going to make sure every darn tile they do lay is PERFECT though and if it is not, I will insist they redo until we are satisfied!!

For what it's worth, we are in one of the costlier markets and my general contractor husband also agreed that the original price was over the top AND regardless of the original price that he would have just done the extra rows you requested at no extra charge.

Thanks EcoBuzz. I appreciate hearing that I am not crazy to think this new cost is not reasonable.

I'm dusting off my old legal speak and am going to at least try to get them to do the other bathroom that isn't laid yet.

And I am composing my reviews in my head to post once the crooks are out of my house. The DAY they are out of our house. The one upside is I just read a study that said 4/5 customers report changing their mind about a product or a service based on negative online reviews. Since this company has no online reviews so far, my dearest hope is that a scathing review will have a major impact and no one else will be cheated by them or subject to such treatment.

I also have the consultation that while they might have ripped us off, it's only money and we have things that are much more valuable- our honesty and integrity- while they are sorely lacking in both.

I know you already know this but as a lawyer myself I would advise you to be careful what you write and stick to the facts with no inflammatory language. Writing something defamatory about someones job or profession is libel per se in most jurisdictions. All they will have to prove is damages. Yes truth is a defense but you will have to prove it. You will likely be able to prove that you were charged well over market rate,grout lines were uneven, etc. but it will be harder to prove they lied, were dishonest, they cheated you, etc. Those sort of inflammatory personal attacks may get you sued and having made a living for a time defending fraud suits theses sorts of allegations are extremely hard to prove . . .

I am definitely going to be careful what I saw, athensmom, thanks. The only reason I am referring to them as dishonest is because I have clear proof they were dishonest. For instance, I have a written proposal in which it was stated that they were to cut tile in half for the Jack & Jill bath for $500.00. When they subsequently were unable to do so and could not cut the tiles in half, they only deducted $300 instead of $500. It is blatant dishonesty.

Why are you doing your builder's job here? You shouldn't be communicating with the tile people directly at all, other than for design approval. That's what you have a GC for! You should be lighting a fire under him to get rid of them. He should have already kicked them to the curb. They can't do the job they were hired to do, and it's up to him to find you a replacement. So, why isn't he behaving like a GC should and acting as their boss?

sounds like they are quoting it high as in their minds they "took a hit" when they had to re-do the bathroom the first time so they are trying to recover some lost costs i am guessing. not excusing their behaviour, just guessing this may be what is going on.

have lived through a nightmare of a custom cabinet job with an incompetent vendor i can sympathise. my suggestion is to do all communication in writing if you are not already, keep it simple and choose your battles. the relationship is over, you are just trying to do a mop up salvage job at this point so no one gets killed before remodel is over. if you still have them doing a fair amount of work, stop all activity until you can review specs now that you know what you know and update if necessary. both parties need to sign.

this approach worked for me. it was stressful as hell but it got me through. my cabinets are in, they look good and worth all the hassle.

good luck!

So sorry you are going through this hassle beagles. My contractor ripped out my tile around the garden window for free b/c he was not happy with it (3/4" off) and his name was on this job, not because it was in a contract. It's really a darn shame that we have to think in legal terms instead of personal integrity. If you had more of the latter you would not need to rely on the first.

My husband, who is a GC, read your post. after I, did. He, for sure said if it was a misunderstanding you, should side with your customer. Would for sure not charge for redoing it. Just good business practice. Also your GC, should have been on top of everything going on with this job. Hope you, get some satisfaction, and in joy your, new bathroom after all of this. Good Luck!

live_oak, my builder has a meeting with them set up on Monday. When I received this ridiculous email from them on Friday, I emailed my builder and let him know I am not dealing with this tile person any more other than to approve designs. So, we'll see what resolution my builder works out. I am very much hoping that our builder does take care of this for us and stand up for us in a way that would be expected. I have NO problems with our builder as of now and as long as our builder represents our interests fairly here, I will continue to think very highly of him.

babushka_cat they have to fix the foyer, finish the master bath, do the guest bath, do the dog shower and do the kitchen backsplash. We are not having them do our granite any more and I am very thankful for that! They know everything must be approved in writing going forward.

celtinNE that's how everyone else has been on this build. Our wonderful, wonderful cabinet maker especially corrects anything that doesn't look right without having to be prompted to do so. He also charged way less than these tile people and when there have been a few tiny little problems with the way something looked, he always emailed me to bring the problem to my attention and offered a solution in the very same email. Other than these tile people who in my opinion are incompetent and dishonest, this build has been completely stress free.

Thanks shar-az.

What LWO said ...

Really, Ms Beagles -- you are already in such a high-end bracket, it's bizarre to hear of these troubles. With all due respect, you are simply paying too much to be this aggravated. Me, I know I'm not paying top dollar: you are. Your GC's job should be to see to it that for all this $$$ you contend with no/minimal aggravation.

As surely you must know, that figure you're paying for this tiling job is stratospheric. You know it, they know it. Your GC should know it and while you're never going to hire them again, he might. He's the one the relationship matters with and I'm guessing you pay your GC similarly munificently.

While it's tough, I think you should be setting your laser-sites on this GC. Insist he mop this up. Insist he advocate for you: this piddly little couple layers of extra tile should definitely be one of those costs of doing business these guys should suck up. This is their job and your GC should know it even if, somehow, they don't.

BTW, while you've conceded it might have been hard for the tilers to somehow know you intended for the tile to go to the ceiling, it's not actually that esoteric an expectation. There's cause for understanding how the misunderstanding could have occurred. Yet there was also several opportunities for them to have figured it out: excessive overage, just plain asking, etc. For example, that's just the first fundamental bottom-line question my tiler asked of our bathroom: are the tiles going to the ceiling? I do think I had the temerity to think, inside, 'of course they are, what are they going to do, stop midway...?' -- but I didn't say anything. I've since come to understand there are a bazillion and one such decisions to be made when tiling and they really aren't all as obvious as that. They seem so to me but there are so many tastes under the sun ... it can't be an easy job tiling under such conditions. I'm sure you and I both aren't the only ones who imagine our expectations are just obvious.

BUT... this cuts both ways. Because these presumptions are ubiquitous I am quite certain every single tiler encounters these issues every single day. It is, therefore, an integral part of their job to straighten this stuff all out. It just doesn't work to all innocently say later on: "...I didn't know, she didn't write it all down". He should have asked.

But where this should all be being dealt with is at the GC-sub level. The tiler should be whining to the GC "but she didn't say..." and the GC should be shaking his finger at the tiler saying "next time, ask.... deal with it...." or something.

While I know this is traumatic and irritating, I think it is utterly commonplace. All that's not commonplace is the tile-guys' presumption that you'll just take care of it all.

question - that sounds like an awfully lot more to do when you are having problem with a vendor. can you cut your losses and move to another vendor? ex: have them finish what they need to finish or fix, but end contract early and not have them do the guest bath, the dog shower and kitchen backsplash? not sure what your payment arrangement is and what you still owe them but if financially feasible i would try that based on my experience with train wreck of a cabinet maker. we settled our grievances and i had someone else rebuild the doors he screwed up and had the GC install the cabs.

I agree w/ you aliris19 and I have told our GC that I'm having no further contact w/ these tile people other than to approve design. He is meeting w/ them on Monday.

babushka_cat it is complicated. They've already got the materials ordered, including a custom designed mural. They already laid the guest bath once and have to redo it, plus have ordered the materials. What do we pay them for the failed tile laying efforts? Nothing? What about the materials, how could we get an honest breakdown of material cost? I asked my GC about firing them and he thinks it could end up in court if we try and cost much more. We did get them off of the granite though, because of all these problems so we were at least able to do that.

We have been fighting with them since before a single tile was laid because they wanted me to come and lay out the tile instead of them doing the tile based on drawings I made.

They are arguing I approved the tile part way up because of one email with a drawing that had tiny little dimensions on the side that was done to show where the mural was going. I didn't look at the tiny little dimensions, no one ever pointed them out, they were different from what we had looked at before and I believed I was approving the placement of the mural ONLY. They determined from that that I approved the dimensions. That's why I am not arguing so much on this white bathroom, because technically they can point to that emailed drawing. However, for the other bath, the one they wanted $1260 for, the contract I have said the deco is supposed to be placed 6' above the tub, which would place the deco higher than the tile that was laid and that they are arguing they should have to lay. HOW can their contract specify a deco is going 6' above a tub and then they argue they are laying tile only to 5 3/8? That would put the deco ABOVE the tile line. They also commented to me in a different email that they think tile covering the whole wall is more aesthetically pleasing, so I never would have assumed they would do anything other than what THEY indicated was more aesthetically pleasing. However because I did receive that drawing w/ the tiny dimensions, I said I'd be willing to pay a REASONABLE cost for this bathroom to take the tile up higher. The other bath should be done for free based on the contracted 6' above the tub deck height.

We'll see what happens at the meeting on Monday.

I read about half. I'll read the rest later, but you should really expect to pay from $5 to $10 per sq ft for installation depending on difficulty. The exception is for kitchen backspashes that can cost much, much more.