For your back black wall I prefer the idea of the Shaker panel (NOT the raised panel) -- I think both it's more subtle as well as makes more visual sense with the slab door on your island.

I also prefer the idea of the white and black cabinet doors being the same -- maybe it's just my mind's eye, but three colors, each with a different door just seems too busy to me. The simple Shaker panel will "fade into" your wall.

I agree about doing the lower cabinetry (near your fridge / freezer) white. At least, based on your renditions those areas (main white cab wall, fridge / freezer area) read as one.

Except ... what panels will your fridge and freezer have? If you're going with stainless, could you do stainless door on those lower cabs? Then that whole area tucked in there will be one whole (stainless appliances, stainless shelves and stainless doors). ???

Slab and shaker play well together, so I'd also suggest you go with shaker style for the white and black, and do some of those drawers in slab to flow well with your slab island.

rmkitchen said everything i thought. it will look great...
and what program did you use to do your mock up?

As I was thinking of my response...then I read Robin's and she said everything I was going to!

Have to agree with the above posters.

I'm afraid if you went with raised panels on the black cabinets it might end up looking like you bought all your cabinets on clearance, and had to take what was left!!! Keep the white and black the same style, and I also wonder about doing the drawers slab- (My top ones on my shaker style cabs on slab and the bottom two larger ones shaker)- in your case I wonder about doing all of them slab?

If it makes you feel any better, even though it's been a long process, you may end up finished before me anyways...:>) I'm excited for you!

OK...no raised panels. One decision down!

There aren't going to be too many drawers on the black cabinet run because of the sink and trash on the right side and the KD trying to mirror it on the left side, so I'm wondering if making the drawers slab there it will just break it up too much. Also, where the drawers are currently planned for the black cabs, they are pretty much blocked by the island. What if the black cabs were Shaker and the white wall cabs were slab?

The frig/freezer doors are going to be stainless. I could consider stainless doors on the lower cabs over there in the snack area.

Kateskourous - I didn't do the renderings. Rhome has generously given her time and has done them for me. I believe she uses BHG Chief Architect.

I have 3 colors cabs in my kitchen with 2 door styles. I went with the unfitted look whereas each piece looks like a piece of furniture.

My perimeter cabs are a medium dark brown in one style. My hutch area is dark, dark brown in the same style as the perimeter cabs. My island is cream with a different, but coordinating door style than the perimeter and hutch. All top drawers only on the perimeter are slab. I have the same granite on all surfaces and hardware to tie it all together.

Here's a pic--scroll over so you can see all together:

Malhgold, I love your final layout and am so happy for you to finally reach the GO stage. Keep us tuned in, please.

I completely agree with rmkitchen, and nearly swooned with her idea of going stainless with that bank of cabinets next to the fridge.

Mahlgold, I agree with everything rm said except for the stainless cabs -- that would be 4 cabinet colors, which is is just 1 too much for me. You can pull off 3 in 1 room, as lsandler has done, but 4 is too much patchwork IMO.

Slab will show off your nice grained oak nicely but I'd stay away from plain-white, plain-slab as being a little too boring. (If the white slab panels have some interest in them -- distressing, grain, or ??? -- ignore this comment.)

I'm probably already on record for being against slab on the white wall. (And it's not just because I'm not a slab fan, but because I believe the shadow lines created by the inset Shaker doors are essential to this idea/design)

I am also against the KD deciding for you to mirror the sink and trash cabinets if you want drawers. As you said, it will mostly be behind the island, and why would such exact symmetry be necessary, even if it did show? Even moreso, it all being black, and the fact that no matter what, all the top elements (which show most) will be drawers, makes it less obvious. I think it will be more interesting to have drawers and I'd go for function on this decision. You already have overall symmetry...Doors vs drawers, I think, is one step too far.

I guess I think that your KD has already shown a little shortage on flair and thinking at all outside the box when she said you had too many colors.

In your last thread, not counting the one about hoods, I thought Lascatx gave some great reasoning for going with inset Shaker on the white wall and full overlay Shaker in the black.

Its looking really wonderful! I would definitely go for function on
the island drawers vs doors. I'm curious, I missed it somewhere...
where did your pantry go?

"where did your pantry go?"

That's what I wanted to know. ;-) I can understand the desire for some counterspace by the refrig and freezer, but it moves them further from the kitchen and eliminates pantry space, which I think could be pretty important. I'm not sure I see any space for a crackers, an extra box or 2 of cereal, and any other extra or bulk items. It does solve the toaster oven dilemma, though.

Is this what it's supposed to look like?

Sort of...I think maybe the shelves need to move higher and there should be a 3rd one that lines up with the doorway? Or maybe they just need to move higher.

I'm thinking that some pantry items(cereals, crackers, snacks) will go in the lower cabs near the frig. Other cooking pantry items will go in the cabs in the inset wall. Had been considering putting dishes/glasses on the open shelves, although that may be annoying to walk there from the DW. I guess upper cabs by the frig would be more useful.

The only way I would keep dishes over in those shelves if it was a select few, and of a separate kind so that it was clear which ones go which place.

The bottom shelf is at standard upper cabinet height, so I don't think I'd move them up.

Better?

I hate style discussions.

I think you can do any style door that is pleasing to you on the black cabs. No matter what your choice, the edges will soften because of the lack of shadow lines. I agree that trying for mirror cabinet layout is perhaps excessive.

However, I don't like the current configuration of cabs in the short wall with the oven. Its too many lines and handles for me. Possibly that could be helped by changing the 3 doors on the center cabinet to a single door (pantry?) and the over the counter array into maybe lift doors with center pulls? I'm guessing you've seen an elevation with the short wall as slab doors and didn't care for it.

The third shelf over the 48" cab is SO HIGH, it will be difficult to clean. Can you try running the tile all the way up instead? Maybe it will better complete the area and maybe it creates a space for a picture or other art?

I'm probably already on record for being against slab on the white wall. (And it's not just because I'm not a slab fan, but because I believe the shadow lines created by the inset Shaker doors are essential to this idea/design)

I'm in total agreement. IMO, white slabs on that wall would be just too dull & uninteresting. From a practical POV, slab doors over in the (messy) business of the kitchen make sense because they're so easy to wipe down.

I guess upper cabs by the frig would be more useful.

That's what I think. And though I love the look of open shelves, aside from the dusting issues, IMO, a cab would just look better here.

Here was another thought, which moves the frig over on the short wall(tall cab on right) and gives me back the pantry.

I had been thinking about moving the advantium under the counter to the left of the range. I could then do 3 24" wide long doors on that short wall. Or, if I leave the advantium on the short wall, I could do starting from the right, 24" wide door for frig, 30" advantium(with 2 15" doors above and below) and then 24" wide long door. Although I tend to think this wall looks better with like size cabinets. Otherwise, it might become a mish mash.

I cannot WAIT to see this finished: What a cool kitchen this will be!

Count me in on the inset shaker for the white wall cabs.

I also like the different sizes of cab doors on that wall, as you illustrate above. Even if you move the advantium under the counter (I'm a little sorry I did that with mine, even though it was the best use of space, but ymmv) I would keep the mix. Just my humble opinion!

FWIW I also like the fridge a little closer to the door: I think the shelves open it up a bit but I'd rather have the fridge handy and more pantry space.

claybabe - why do you not like your advantium under the counter?

The frig will be that long white cab on the right of the short wall. I could then go back to this layout which puts a pantry and freezer together.

I like the step back soffits with the shelves for looks. I do somewhat wonder what a third one in place of the door casings would look like.

Bmore - a "third one in place of the door casings". A third what?

BTW...here was the inspiration photo that started all of this. Do you think that looks too busy?

Malhgold, I don't know if you ever posted the photo that inspired the short, white inset wall (and don't know if you really can), but it had small doors and looked great. Although I see the nice design balance in using the different sizes of doors, I remember that original wall, and I think the large door is too imposing for a look that's supposed to be very subtle and almost invisible. The collection of small, similarly sized doors gives an 'all-over' appearance, rather than busyness, I think...Kind of like when someone uses tiny tiles and it looks less busy than using 4x4s...Creates a texture, rather than separate units.

Bmore, I'm not sure what you meant last. Do you mean keep the framed in idea around the shelves, but also add a 3rd shelf? I added a 3rd at doorway height above, but took away the side framing, and, of course, the soffit, which wouldn't fit with the 3rd shelf. Do you want to see it with the 3rd shelf and no soffit, but the side framing? Sorry if I'm being dense.

OK, so I stand corrected that the inspiration wall has all small doors! Isn't it funny what we remember? Anyway, I still think it doesn't look busy and still think the large door is too much for the look. :-)

I like the step back soffits with the shelves for looks. I do somewhat wonder what a third one in place of the door casings would look like.

I think what Bmore meant was to have another stepped down soffit over the door.

Sounds cool--I'm wondering what it would look like, too!

Anyone like the cabinet with the soffit better than the shelves?

Free hand crappy, but meant this for the doorway with drywall and no door casings - but maybe not quite so pronounced...
{{!gwi}}

Yup - I think its busy. For me, it has something to do with the lack of relationship between the "regular" rectangles, the random huge stone wall pattern, the other stone wall pattern and the hood. I love the hood, the windows the cabinet placement, the set dressings and the ceiling. I don't like the walls and the huge box shapes in the oven run.

But hers doesn't have the stone or other things going on...Do you still think her wall is too busy? Here it is without the big door.

I don't have anything to add to the discussion (I think it looks like it's going to be a lovely kitchen) but I just have to say that I love that Mell Lawrence-designed inspiration kitchen. I don't think I've seen that particular kitchen but I've seen a number of houses Mell's designed and always loved the kitchens (he's an Austin architect). I have probably 3 of his kitchens in my inspiration file. He often uses multiple finishes and it always looks good.

Bmore - is it that the doors don't relate to anything else?

I don't think the 'big door' would get built as pictured at the top of the thread. A Shaker door that tall would have to have a couple of additional rails across it to minimize warping. That said, I like the 'smaller door' look.

And, I don't like the soffit over the cabinet. Thinking that a flat furniture top might look good. Or cabinet to the ceiling. But, you might want to go with the shelves initially since they should cost quite a bit less than a cabinet. Then, if you change your mind, you could add a cabinet later.

Cilantro - the big door in the rendering would be the frig door, so that wouldn't need extra reinforcement, but if I did do a series of long "pantry" doors, they most likely would need reinforcement, as you said. They could be cut in half horizontally, but then the door would be very wide at 24". So, this might not work at all. Maybe it would just look a lot better without that oven in there.

I wouldn't mind the cabinet to the ceiling, but thought it might look odd as there aren't any other cabs like that in the kitchen. Thoughts?

Anyone think the short white wall would look better if there weren't any cabs on the bottom? More like the inspiration pic. Or would that just look like I forgot something on that wall, or ran out of money. LOL!!!

any last thoughts? going to see KD today. Thanks!

(I like the bottom row)

The main issue with having my advantium below the counter is that I can't see well into the back and it's more difficult to clean. I have to squat in front of it. Of course, I also put it under the baking center counter which is a few inches lower than normal (maybe four? I can't recall for sure just now), so maybe normal counter height would be much better. In order to clean the top and back I have to be pretty much lying on the floor. It would just be more convenient at the height you have it.

That said, I didn't want to give up counter space or tear into a wall to put it up higher, so it is what it is, and I just use it and know that I'm going to stay flexible for more years because of it!

I also say keep the bottom row. I think you'll need it and I certainly don't think it looks bad.

Wish I'd been here sooner --

I'm going to shock you and agree with rhome again -- I don't think the white wall is too busy with that cabinet style. I like it, and I would like it to the ceiling as well. I think doing something different on that wall would make sense since they are inset and already different. I figured you wanted to keep the line from the top of the window, and that also makes sense. But my first thought on that wall was why not go to the ceiling (did I never say that?).

The one thing I would like better would be a different style of hardward on the white cabs. I would like knobs rather than pulls. My preference, and it does reduce the number of lines.

I also agree that you should worry about having drawers on one side -- in fact, I would fight for the drawers. Really. Don't let the KD talk you out of them, especially for something behind the island. The cooktop side of my island has a bank of drawers, a trash pullout and a sink base. No symmetry, but it's balanced, it functions as I need it to and I think it looks great.

I would make the black either the same or similar to the white -- maybe an added detail -- beaded edge or something if you like it. I think your slabs are different enough that the balck and white should be more similar.

And I like the open shelves by the fridge. They make perfect sense there, dn I think they'd be a good place for galsses, stems, coffee cups, cereal bowls -- maybe lunch or snack plates.

I've enjoyed whatching your plans come together nad look forward to seeing it take shape. :-)

Thanks for chiming in Lascatx!

So I've made some decisions. I moved the advantium under the counter 24" to the left of the range.

Frig wall is below. Frig will be stainless and cabinets will be white inset.

Freezer/Pantry wall is as follows: I got the pantry cab back and still have my snack counter. Freezer will be stainless and pantry cab will be white inset cabs to match the inset wall. The pantry/freezer will also be inset in drywall like the frig wall.

Went with wide rail shaker on the range wall, regular shaker on inset wall(wide rail would have left virtually no space in between rails) and slab on island. Anyone thinking the 2 different size shaker doors are a problem or it will look like a mistake? I figured the framing around the inset would add to the width of the rail to make it appear "wider" like the black shaker door. Also wound up with slabs on the black cabs again because the wide rail was too wide. Does that seem ok?

Better (for me)!

Works for me.

What would you think of glass shelves?

I love the wide shaker & I'm so glad you got your pantry back!
Its going to be awesome! Looks like you are getting pretty much
everything you wanted...great!

Congratulations! I am so excited for you.

I think the different width of stiles will neither look odd nor really even be noticeable -- they're going to be different colors so that's what the eye will see: black and white, literally!

Now that you've made all these decisions I can see why you're thinking about what material the open shelves might be, but I'd like to urge you to wait. I think once your cabinets are in you'll realize what material will look the best and make the most sense for what you'll be keeping there.

Congratulations!

Thanks! I'm pretty excited. Meant to say in my post above that the smaller drawers on black cabs will be slab because the wider rail wouldn't work. Anyone think this will look like a mish mash?

Black cabs-wide rail on doors, slab on narrow drawers
White cabs - regular shaker door and drawers
Oak cabs-slab doors/drawers

Had thought about glass shelves as well. Just don't have glass anywhere else in the kitchen. Thought stainless or wood might work better.

Since lascatx seems to be shocked when we do agree lately, I'm thinking stainless shelves. ;-D

Rhome, you're reading me wrong. I was kidding! And we're still in basic agreement -- while I was asking about glass to throw out another possibility, I was thinking glsss (perhaps with stainless brackets or supports) or stainless. Wood doesn't seem right for the mix of elements.

I think the slab drawers on the black might be a nice bridge between the slab oak and the white. You may have found an accidental tie-in. :-)

Love it: I agree that the slab top drawers will be a tie-in, not a distraction. Probably also good that your advantium is closer to the range hood (it can generate a fair amount of, ahem, smoke). I like dividing the fridge and freezer and burying the freezer in a drywalled area. Nice nice nice.

When do you start?!

I was remembering some frosted glass doors -- over by the fridge? Have those gone? Even without them I think glass shelves are good if you want to call less atttention to them. Stainless would have more visual impact.

I do like separating the fridge and freezer, but I might like the pantry closer to the kitchen than the freezer now that I'm thinking how often I'm in each. It's not a big difference either way.

Now I'm obsessing over the minutaie. Would it make a difference visually if I changed the cabs over in the snack area(lower cabs and pantry doors) to the wide rail full overlay vs. the inset? So, the wall would be inset but all other doors for black and white cabs would be wide rail shaker.

Thanks!

"Now I'm obsessing over the minutaie."

Now?! :-D

I guess I never asked, and can't tell from the drawing, if the pantry is white or the old plan of stainless around glass. I guess from what's said (and you may have told me before) that it's white. I think the inset is a good choice, so that it goes with the other white cabs.

I was teasing, too, Lascatx, although glass shelves, unless they can be different than I'm thinking (1/4" thick and rattly), don't feel right to me and I like stainless to tie with the freezer or white wood shelves. Like I said, though, you may have a whole different image in mind concerning the glass.

I changed the pantry back to white. I started thinking that if I did the pantry doors with glass trimmed in stainless that another style/finish of door might just be pushing it too much even though it really wouldn't be seen unless you were walking into the Great Room. However, there is more white right now than I had planned/wanted. I just don't see any way around it.

Lascatx - I'm going to think about swapping the freezer and pantry. Might be more beneficial to have the pantry next to the counter.