And I should have said "advice" not "advise". Oops. :^)

bump

the sink is good.

you can make the island larger.

you can make the main counter larger.

Its hard to tell from your drawing... do you have a window in the kitchen? I prefer having the sink under a window.

No window but the dining room has windows on three walls.

@davidrol---do you mean the island deeper? It can't really go any longer without interfering with the door going out of the dining room to the porch.

How would I make the main counter longer? Walls as they are now cannot be moved. Do you mean take out one of the doors?

any reason why you could not extend the island into the dining room by 2 feet? you could then offset the sink a bit so that two people don't have to be back to back at sink and stove. The door to the mudroom in the kitchen does not make as much sense as the door just outside it (on the other side of the wall ovens (I think?)). If you remove it and put the fridge on that wall (turn it 90 from where it is, not sure if that's an improvement as you will have a dead corner. However, I don't like fridges opening into a wall.
capsian

Can you post a pic of the bigger version of the plan. I don't understan why you would put two doors a few feet apart into a mud room, it is a waste of usfull space in both rooms.

If I was going to leave one door I would actually prefer the door closest to the oven be removed because my pantry and laundry room are right outside the other door (the one by the fridge)

We originally had the two doors because we had a basement and the door by the ovens was closest to it and DH wanted easy access. However, now we aren't doing a basement so removing it might be an option.

HOWEVER: if the layout is left as is, could you suggest any additional island layouts or shapes (I'm not tied to the rectangle).

I will post the whole plan. I did that one time though and the discussion evolved into rearranging the whole plan rather than specifically commenting on my kitchen layout so I would appreciate comments just on the kitchen not the rest of the plan :^).

Also, there will be a 9 or 12" pantry cabinet between the fridge and wall.

I don't want to move the island down toward the dining room because of the door and it is now only 12 ft from the end of the island to the back wall of the dining room. THat would be great if I could!

could you orient the island the other way...turn 90 and go into the family room more. I see why you would not want to impeed further into the DR. A triangle shaped island might be interesting too...to give you two runs of island, one for the sink, one for prep and a long side for seating.

To make sure I'm reading your plan right...is the dotted section in the wall just below the "KITCHEN" label an opening to the hallway and pantry? and the dotted box is the fridge?
Caspian

Much as I hate having an oven not as close as possible to my cooking surface, I'd move the oven to the end towards the DR and move the cooktop towards the end where the oven is now in order to offset the sink and cooktop from each other. HAving them back to back will be a big problem, I think - and it's unnecessary.

I was going to suggest that you get rid of the doorway to the mudroom that leads directly to the kitchen aisle, but once you posted the whole drawing I can see that you decided to stick with the pantry-around-the corner design so you need it.

However, having that as your only pathway from mudroom to the inside will funnel all traffic into the cooking aisle which would be a very bad thing, IMO. So I'm with your DH on this: keep the two doors, and even try to figure out how to visually cue people to use the non-kitchen aisle one. Hissing cobras and trapdoors leading to cesspits should be temporarily installed so their habits get properly formed. After that you can open up the direct parhway to the pantry for the cook's convenience.

I don't recall whether you considered having the pantry-access path around the corner from the wall with the entry from the mudroom to house, i.e. where the ovens are now. A doorway there would be even more convenient for the cook to go to the pantry (and laundry) while slightly less convenient for those entering from the garage and headed into the main part of the house. Cobras and trapdoors might be avoided, in this case.(This presupposes you close the present pantry pathway, of course.)

HTH,

L.

@Caspian--yes you are reading it right. I have considered a triangle shaped island and am playing around with it on Google Sketchup.

@liriodendron. You made me laugh with the cobras and trapdoors. :^) I didn't understand where you meant for the door to go in your last paragraph.

Thank for all the comments everyone. They really help me think through my design!!

okpokesfan yes, the direction that is "deeper" or wider. (Not longer!) Larger in depth / width not length. Both of the counters.

having seen the whole house layout, I can add this: I would have a sink near the fridge. I would move the cooktop over to the end. This leaves a large expanse of of countertop in the middle of that counter. I would have a sink in the island, at the DR end. This leaves a large expanse of of countertop in the middle of the island. Overall, it gives you two sinks, each one in the right place. I would not have a double sink with each half sink being the same size as the other half sink.

Do you want to keep your cleanup sink on the island, or would you rather have your cleanup zone elsewhere, with a nice prep zone on the island?

Instead of having the door from mudroom into kitchen aisle where it is now, move it around the corner so it goes from where the ovens are now into the hall/walkway from pantry to laundry. Imagine if you could just walk through the ovens and end up standing in front of the door to the laundry, just around the corner from where the current door to kitchen from mudroom is.

if you moved that doorway to where I suggest you'd walk through directly into the little hallway at the pantry and have easy access to the landry room as well. And because it's not as visible on the pathway from the garage, chances are people would gravitate to the other doorway that your DH rightly wants to keep. Two problems solved at once.

You could move the ovens to the wall where the fridge is now. In which case I would move the cooktop closer and the position the DW on the other side of the sink, with dish storage on the eating-area end of the cooktop counter. MAybe ease the island a tad closer to the table are, too. I would put a high value on off-setting the cooktop and sink from one another unless you will always be the only using the kitchen and would work well in a cockpit-type setting

HTH,
L.

The fridge is the dotted box, yes?

Option 1: Scoot range toward fridge, put cleanup sink and DW in the freed up space. Put prep sink about 15" to 18" from the bottom of the island. If you do not want a prep sink, then make sure the DW is not between the range and cleanup sink - put it between cleanup sink and dining room. Actually, I would put the DW there regardless regardless. Cons - prep space is offset from the range. Pros: DW & dish storage v. close to dining room, but that may not matter if you don't eat there much and/or don't mind walking. Cons: zones are jumbled.

Option 2: Put ovens at top of range wall, then put cleanup sink & DW where ovens were. Have a drawer at the end of the island face the DW for dish storage. Put prep sink about 15" to 18" from the bottom of the island - this is absolutely necessary in this option. Cons - DW & dish storage is very far away from the dining room, but that may not matter if you don't eat there much and/or don't mind walking. Pros: all zones are very nicely separated, and someone getting a glass for a drink of water or something from the fridge can do so without walking into the cook's area.

Personally, I prefer Option 2. If you would like to see a similar layout to Option 2, check out segbrown's gorgeous kitchen. Link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: segbrown's gorgeous kitchen

Thanks everyone! I have drawn up numerous sketches of the different layouts. I will add these to my list. I love my current layout but don't know if I will be able to duplicate it. I want to get the layout right---I know I can change countertops/cabinets/flooring later but it's harder to change the plumbing and electrical.

@rhome I would rather NOT have my sink in the island. I would like to have a nice big prep area there. The run where the ovens are is only 6 ft so I'm not sure if I have room for a sink and dw there. I have thought about moving the range there (and moving the ovens to the run with the fridge, then putting a sink and dw in the middle of the two.)

@lirio--are you thinking the the ovens are the dotted box at the end of the run that currently houses the range? That is actually the fridge--so are you saying move it there?

Which I foolishly thought was the ovens.

I just think walking out into the mudroom hall and then turning right and going around the corner to access the pantry will be a bore.

But if you had a doorway/hole in the wall where the dotted box is then you'd save about half the steps to get to the pantry as well as make it more convenient to dart into the laundry room and shift the clothes over from washer to dryer, etc. It just seems like you've built yourself an unneccessary hike into very routine daily jobs. ('Course all that walking is good for your health, but I'd rather get my extra steps on a walk outside rather than traisping back and forth to fetch ingredients or attend to the wash.) This seems a much more major issue than anything else in your plan. Putting the doorway where I suggest would allow you to traverse the shorter diagonal to get to the same place.

You could possibly move the fridge to the place where the present doorway is (probably have to scootch it over a bit.) If that's the ovens on the other end of that run then the fridge and ovens could share the same plunk space. or even exchange places if you want people to have access to the fridge w/o coming into your work corridor. Few by-standing civilians will have any interest in visiting the wall ovens but often people want to grab a drink from the fridge. Swapping the oven for the newly- moved fridge would also get the ovens closer to the stove for when you have something that needs both types of heat (sear roasts, or any time you use the oven to keep food warm while completing other steps in a recipe which is something I do often.)
HTH

L.

How do you use your pantry? I would get rid of the doorway in the kitchen, that is a nice chunk of cabinet and counter space you could have. I keep large bulky things that dont get used everyday and food over stock in my pantry so I dont need to access it at each meal or even everyday. If you go every meal to your pantry I can see the extra steps could be a PIA.

I think I would turn that island into a great big square, extending it into the great room. That should give you 2 or so feet more on each side for working room, not including your eating area.
If you close up the opening:
I would move the ovens to be in line with the cooktop at the dining room side(move cooktop down if needed)
If you really hate the sink in the island then move it and dishwasher to be on the fridge wall side.

My high quality rendering, ha ha.
The x next to the fridge is the dishwasher, I would move the cooktop down towards the corner but it was easier to leave, with my lack of drawing skills.

mgmsrk---We have thought of doing that and I actually really like that setup but I'm afraid if I don't put a door close to the pantry/laundry area (and the garage door as well) I will regret it--especially when bringing in groceries and doing laundry. (it's actually more for the laundry than the pantry) Removing it would make the layout easier but I'm 99% sure that doorway will be staying in some form or fashion.

@lirio--I will play around with that on Google Sketchup (that has been a wonderful tool in visualizing spaces!)

I would still do the big square island, even with the sink it will still give you lots of space all around to prep.
Im worried that with the ovens opening into a door way someone may walk into the doors or you taking things out. I would move the ovens to the DR side and push the cooktop down a bit. Also as suggested above off set the cooktop from the sink so they are not across from each other.

I have my sink in a island and it is across from my cooktop separated by a 50 inch (from counter to counter) aisle. It is not problematic at all. There is plenty of room for two individuals to be in that space. I store my dishes in drawers in the cooktop run. It takes just a turn and half a step to empty the dishwasher. If the dishwasher door is open there is more than enough room to walk past it if someone doesn't want to go around the island. If you make you island deeper, you would get the prep space you need and could keep the layout shown in your first post. Just wanted to let you know the a sink can work in an island. I'm glad I put mine where it is.

There is something off about the layout and I can't quite put my finger on it. Part of it is insufficient wall space. Part of it is the kitchen looks crammed into a corner with DR and FR encroaching on the space.

This may be fixed by a significantly larger and differently shaped island that expands the kitchen more, which will help with sink in the island concerns.

But that will only partly help. Some how, and I'm sure you won't like it, but I want to add more wall between the kitchen and DR. I always want a corner in my kitchen for a susan and this one doesn't have one. And yet this space has a very large laundry and pantry...which may be what you want, but if it were my space, I think the utilization of space is out of balance. I'm not a fan of long hallways. If the traffic is going to flow through the kitchen anyway (not sure how often that far door will get used) can you expand the kitchen into the hallway? Move the doorway to the kitchen into the laundry room and gain a full wall of kitchen along that bottom wall?

I'm not sure...I can't quite get my head around it...but somehow something feels out of kilter to me, and I'm just not sure what....traffic, space utilization, I dunno. I wish I could be of more help....

OK...If you don't yearn to have your cleanup in the island, I urge you to figure out something else! It has so many downsides, that you have to be convinced of some value, or I'm afraid you'll do a whole new kitchen and hate that about it. There are use conflicts, and those dirty dishes front and center and on display...plus in your way when you want to prep. In other words, for those who have it and like it, and really want things set up that way, great. If it's really what you DON'T want, then no.

If you have to work with the cabinet run lengths you have, I see 2 options, both that leave the island free to add a prep sink and have great prep space.

1) you could put both the sink and stove on the back wall, moving the fridge to the oven wall.

Or, IMO, better...

2) Put the oven and fridge at the ends of the stove wall, and the cleanup area where the ovens are. It's not the optimum size, but I'd prefer it to back-to-back main zones. Zelmar and Malhgold both have single basin cleanup sinks near their dishwashers an dish storage that are smaller than their prep sinks. (Malhgold has a 30" prep and a 24" cleanup) That might work for you in this case.

The current layout puts the lesser used utility areas on the outside walls. That space should be for the more used rooms to have access to natural light. Put the kitchen where the too small porch is located so it can have a couple of windows, then combine the pantry and laundry room into one large multi function space with only one doorway to the pantry/laundry/mudroom area.

It's the same with the master suite area and the closet at the corner where you have the opportunity for two windows. House corners are not closet and laundry spaces. They are light and bright kitchens or bedroom areas. Leave the darker interior rooms for the closets and utility areas.

There is a lot of wasted opportunity and wasted space in the whole home's layout, not just the kitchen.