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melissastar

Uh-oh....tile 'designer' just threw a monkey wrench in my plans..

melissastar
13 years ago

So today I FINALLY got the renovation loan signed off and can start doing serious work in the kitchen AND I just got a sample of the Ann Sacks cappricio subway tile in yellow and I thought...hot diggity, this will work.

But no...the area's only Motawi tile dealer finally called back and we discussed my plan to use some Motawi decorated tiles as accents with another company's plain yellow subways and she says: It won't look right.

Her argument is that the Motawi tiles have such a unique, matte finish and arts-and-crafts feel that putting them with anything that has a glossy finish will look out of place. I had kinda LIKED the idea of a glossy field tile, because my row house kitchen doesn't get much light and I thought a highly reflective backsplash would help. Particularly since the counters will be soapstone, which isn't reflective. Now, mind you I'd love to use ALL Motawi...but gimme a break $100 plus a sf ??? Not, I fear, on my budget, in my lifetime.

The alternative she suggests is natural stone and if I want yellow, she says maybe Jerusalem gold.

Well, it's just SO different from the direction I'd been thinking of that I can't get my head around it. Any thoughts about this? Will a glossy subway (or a crackle finish subway?) look just wrong with the Motawi arts & crafts accent tiles? Will yellow stone subways look right with soapstone counters, golden oak and painted green cabinets? For those of you who know Circuspeanuts' kitchen the look I'd been going for is rather similar to hers....

Rats, rats, rats....I thought this was going too smoothly....

Comments (20)

  • jcoxmd
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Can you get samples of everything to try together?

  • melissastar
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, I've got samples of three different yellow ceramic tiles, including the Ann Sacks. And I already own the Motawi deco tiles (bought them months ago and was using them just hanging on a wall). I guess I'm gonna go looking for yellow natural stone. I'm a little depressed about starting the plan all over AND the idea of using a stone which will require sealing. Ceramic tile is just SO easy....

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  • kitchendetective
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How much of a style purist are you? I tend to be okay about mixing certain surfaces in ways in which others are not. I have to see the combinations in order to decide. There are differing levels of sheen and matte in tiles. Neither the colors nor the levels of sheen appear accurately on monitors, so seeing the samples in real life, together, will be very important.

  • kitchendetective
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How many square feet of the Motawi were you originally thinking of using?

  • rhome410
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Maybe what works for your vision just doesn't jive with the tile designer's idea of 'right.' Doesn't really mean your vision is wrong. Just because usually the matte Craftsman tiles were 'meant' to go with like tiles or more natural stone doesn't mean you can't do it differently. I got some awfully weird looks about the plans for my kitchen and all its various colors and materials...but it's my kitchen and it works just the way I wanted it to. Can you post some photos of your choices?

  • melissastar
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    and my house is far from purely arts and crafts. Built in 1907, it has definite A&C elements mixed in with Victorian stained glass and woodwork.

    But I also don't like it when thing just are out of sync with each other. I thought the gloss of the Pratt & Larson tile or the Ann Sacks tile seemed a nice contrast to the matte Motawi tile and didn't seem jarring, the way putting a glass tile with the A&C Motawi decos would be. But when a "professional" tells me it will, I guess I figure it's at least worth contemplating. It's too costly and too permanent a project not to weigh her opinion too. I don't want to be stubborn about my vision and wind up regretting it in a year!

  • rhome410
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ...If you love yellow glossy porcelain, I don't think Jerusalem Gold will be a substitute you'd want. Completely different look. I have seen glossy ceramic subways in Craftsman kitchens that looks wonderful. Circuspeanut's kitchen is a great example and inspiration. For myself, I think the crackle might be too much with the accents, but I still want to see what you're considering before ruling out anything.

  • eandhl
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just a thought as I didnt see the tiles together. The "professional" that said it wouldn't look right wants you to buy their tiles. Make your own decision - a picture on this site will help with more opinions.

  • melissastar
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've posted pics to my Flickr account. I think the link below will get you there. The plain yellow tiles are the three I have samples of. The darkest is probably the closest in finish and color to the Motawi, but I don't really like it. The subway one is the Ann Sacks, the other square one is Pratt and Larson. There are also photos in the Baltimore row house series of graph paper charting of how I envision the backsplash with the Dard Hunter accents. And an alternative geometric b acksplash I was contemplating. There's a pic too of the William MOrris wallpaper in the dining room which will be open to the kitchen.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Motawi tiles- Dard Hunter series

  • rhome410
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The darker/middle one looks best to me, too, but if you don't like it, you don't want a whole kitchen of it. And I think the photo is misleading for the subway, because it looks really light in the photo with the Motawi's, but in the picture of just the yellow tiles, it seems to have more depth of color. I trust you on your choice here. Will they have a color variation like Circuspeanut's?

    I really, really like the pattern with the square accents and the mix of square and rectangular tiles...The one entitled "Current plan for backsplash..." I am worried, however about the behind the range plan, as the accents seem plopped in, since the edges don't meet with the edges of the field tiles, and look as thought they didn't fit right. Sorry...You weren't asking about that...So please ignore me if you'd like!

    Anyway, overall, I'm still liking your mix of tiles. Just because someone is a "pro," and paid, doesn't mean they know and can envision everything. Does this person have a portfolio with work you love and respect? Do they have particular training? Do you know if they were just hired last week and barely know what they're doing? Pros come in all sorts, with different backgrounds and training...And won't be living in your house! ;-)

  • Nancy in Mich
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like your idea just fine, the original vision with soapstone, glazed ceramic and your special Motawi tiles. I like all three of the yellow tiles you have, mixed all together. It seems to me that your vision matters most, not the vision of the person whom you hired to assist you. The KD is there for technical help, in my mind. The kitchen is your canvas!

  • zazutoo
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that some subway stations use glossy brick tiles and matte accents. I like the idea of doing that a lot, with the caveat that the color has to be just right. Whether matched or accented, if the colors mesh, the look would be smashing.

    I think you are wise to value the opinion of the expert but that expert is also a sales person, so his/her opinion might not be pure.

    Suz

  • kitchendetective
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What kind of schedule constraints do you have for your backsplash? I ask because some tile vendors (including Motawi) have over runs and seconds sales at regular intervals. If you have time and patience, you could put together a collected blend of field tiles that would work with your feature tiles. I would also check out salvage companies. What size area do you need to cover with field tiles?

  • kitchendetective
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Have you ever contacted this company? They may have more cost effective suggestions. Or another opinion.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Mission tile

  • melissastar
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks again, all. Well, I just spent the last two hours at yet another tile store (open late on Friday night...imagine!) and came away convinced that the tile designer person is full of finoopywater. The Motawi tiles just do NOT look right with natural stone, no matter how muted. They fight. So with your encouragement and the conviction of my own eyes, I'm sticking with ceramic tiles.

    Now to answer some questions/suggestions:
    Yes, the darkest, middle yellow tile "matches" best. The other two are lighter, but in much the same tones as the oak color in the dard hunter tiles. So, they coordinate more than match. And they aren't AS light in comparison to the other as they look in the photo, in part because that darker center tile is matte finish, while the other two reflected the camera flash.

    On the question of whether what I'm contemplating would have the same variation as Circuspeanut's kitchen (and yes Circuspeanut, I could see my Motawi tiles in your kitchen....) it depends on which I choose. The one I like best now is the Ann Sacks subway (the bottom, rectangular tile in the pictures. It is handpainted and has an A&C feel and I'm comfortable that the color is good. It's $12 a sf plus about $150 for shipping. Apparently you can only buy them at AS stores and they are few and far between????

    But there is Florida tile in a color called Mellow Gold that is VERY, VERY close to the AS. It's about half the price, but is clearly more regular in size and color across the tile. And it is a V3 rating for variation from tile to tile and I've only been able to see one tile at a time, so I expect there will be more variation, more like Circuspeanut's kitchen. CP...what IS the tile you used?

    Rhome, you are right about the plan for behind the range...I'm not satisfied with it either. The problem is that the larger Dard Hunter tiles are 4X8, which just won't line up with a 3X6 subway tile. It my mind now, I'm thinking of not grouping the three together behind the range, but sprinkling them along with the 4X4 decos in the backsplash. (One reason...got feedback yesterday on the a post on a shelf /niche behind the range, which made me realize that I couldn't put everything back there...a focal point of tiles, bottles and a pot-filler and expect it to look like anything but junk!) In any case, whether grouped behind the range or sprinkled throughout , I think they'll look better with a 1" border tile around them, as I show on the plan with the 4X4 tiles.
    Of course that won't make them easier to work into a pattern of 3X6 subways...I'll have a 10"X 6" piece to work with. So...back to the drawing board.

    As for how much tile I need...well a fair amount. BEfore I came up with the idea of using oak beadboard for the backsplash in the butlers panty/scullery off the main kitchen, I thought I'd need 60 sf. Now it's down to about 45 sf.
    And if I frame each of the Motawi tiles (now contemplating the 6 I've got, plus 3 more small ones) with Motawi 1X4's and a 1X 1 in each corner, I'm talking 42 1X4s and 36 1X1s...paying $2.60 EXTRA for each side I need glazed because the Motawi tiles are much thicker than any of the subways I'm contemplating. Guess I'm playing with graph paper again tonight!

  • Circus Peanut
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, I think you are just out of luck and you must send me those tiles, immediately, and start over fresh. ;-)

    I used 6x6 ceramic tile from New England Art Tile - cut them into subways myself. There is an exceedingly similar if not the same handpainted tile from Solistone - linked below.
    {{gwi:1846539}}

    Also check out the field tiles in various promising yellows in gloss and matte from Mission West Tile.

    Have you considered using 4x4 instead of a subway shape? It might actually be more period correct, and perhaps help resolve some of your layout issues. Peter LaBau's The New Bungalow Kitchen has some stellar 4x4 backsplashes...

    Here is a link that might be useful: Solistone Mission Tile

  • nancyaustin
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Melissa, although I really like your tile selections, what attracts me most---and is off topic---is your exquisite William Morris wallpaper! Gorgeous! Where did you find it? I don't have an A & C house but I've always loved William Morris wallpaper and yours especially! Your rowhouse will be beautiful, I'm sure. Nancy

  • live_wire_oak
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I really hate it when designers throw around the "because I'm a designer" to claim top of the mountain infallable status. They can never be wrong, or course, or have a conflict of interest because the stuff they want you to get is stuff they get a commission on rather than the cheaper stuff you can buy elsewhere. They don't have to live in your kitchen! You do!

    Now, having said that, there's been times in my career when I really really wanted to grab someone and shake them about a big mistake they were making (like using black and red commercial carpet in a bathroom with black fixtures), and I do try to say, "have you considered XX reasons why this doesn't work as well for your vision as the CDE brand?". BUt, in the end, that black and red commercial carpet made my client happy, and I didn't have to live with it (thank goodness! LOL!)

    So, get what you like. What works for you in your house. As long as it's not taxicab screaming yellow, it will work with your vision just fine.

    And, to present another alternative. You can do what a friend of mine did. SHe didn't like any of the tiles she could find for her backsplash. None were the right color. SO, she found some plain white ones that she liked the shape of and painted them herself. SHe used Pebeo Vitrea paint, which is meant to paint glass and be permanant. It had to be thinned with their thinner to get the "right" color, and I'm not sure how long it took her to do the project and I'm not sure how it holds up to years of cleaning, but she did the bake it to set it bit and it held up to scrubbing with a sponge and Mr. Clean. Fuchia pink tile in a black and pink kitchen is a very personal statement in a kitchen but it worked for her.

  • melissastar
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nancy: Thanks for the encouragement. I can't take credit for the wallpaper, it was here when I bought the house in Dec. At least, I can take credit though for the sense not to take it down! I need another roll to accommodate the renovations and found it is available online at the link below. This particular pattern is called Fruit

    Here is a link that might be useful: William Morris wallpaper