Lilleth,

It's hard to comment on the bid as pricing is dependent on so many factors (size of your kitchen, going rates in your area, etc.). Have you gotten any other bids? We found that by getting bids from other contractors that friends had used (we thought this was more reliable than following up on contractor's references, after all, they're not likely to pass along a poor referral), we were better able to assess the reasonableness of quotes.

I can't really comment on the costs, except to say that if I were you I would get at least two more bids. Even if they all come in nearly the same, you won't be wondering if you are getting fleeced.

I think the price is about what the expensive people would charge (although you can definitely get beautiful faucets and sink for much less than that price). I found that when I got a bid from the less-risk high-end folks it was around your bid, and when I got bids from "a guy who knows other guys and can mostly do the stuff himself" it was half to a third that price. Big difference.

If you know someone who does good work and who is one of those carpenter-guys-who-does-other-stuff, and you trust him, then definitely get a bid. I am using one of those situations now, and I'm thrilled (and much less poor!). Granted the bigger companies are less risk, but given the awful stories I hear about a lot of them I don't know if the risk is that much less.

The key is seeing the people's work, especially the carpenter. And the cool thing about the cheaper scenario is you have enough left over to hire an architect or KD, which sometimes they need to help guide them.

We got three bids for our major kitchen remodel (including removing the loadbearing wall between dining room and kitchen, adding a small powder room, refinishing the hardwood floors, some HVAC work to reroute vents, moving gas line to island, etc.). Our cabinets/countertops/appliances are not included in these bids. One was $12.5k, one was $19k, and one was $82.5k. Yes, 82.5k! Interestingly, the absurdly high bid was from someone who we could tell did not have the experience for a job this size. We liked the two others equally, so we went with the lower one and are pleased so far (wall is coming down and beam is going today!).
I would definitely get another bid or two to compare; it never hurts to shop around.

The cost of the materials seems to be in order except I think it's alittle high for the sinks and faucets. Plus you have to add the cost of installing these items and as you mentioned, the lighting. I still think the project manager fee's are outragous. I don't know why you cannot order the items yourelf and pay to have them installed. It's not a major makeover.

For certain projects I utilize a contractor who bills out at $75/hr and I know they pay the carpenter onsite around $27. so they are pulling $48/hr in fees without direct management . If they do direct administration THAT gets billed at $75 separately. This is plus materials which they also upcharge. So, they bill out $600 a day (per person). This is high in my market (metro Philadelphia)so I only use them for certain things. It would depend on how many people will be onsite, and how much management you get/need. And how many days, it would take---My impression is that this is high, so I would want to know what you are getting for it, specifically. (Although it is also hard seeing itemizations like email to client $28; moving truck $16.)

Yes-I think we are being asked to pay a lot of middleman cost.

In addition to the cabinet builder/craftsmen who bid a few years ago, we have a very good tile installer replacing a poorly built shower floor in our master bath. I know he could do the backsplash too.

We did pay to have a design done by the renovation contractor we are talking with. When meeting with his KD, I have found that I know about as much as she does, and more in many instances, about appliances and materials, largely due to reading this site for over half a decade. And she would send us off to the store of their choice to shop for sinks and such. If I am doing all that work, what am I paying them for? My weakness is with the measurements -and now that we have a CAD drawing of that, plus a ton of other information collected over the years, I'm not sure why we would pay someone all that money. I've really done most of the work already in my shopping and studying.

We also have another designer who worked with us on our previous project, and I know she can step in for a reasonable cost and work with us on materials and tweaking design if need be.

Seems a little high to me, but I would agree that it's hard to assess without knowing more particulars, including what constitutes "small."

You say the lighting fixtures are not included, but is all the electrical work? This can be quite high, as can the fixtures, depending on what you use.

One of the many things I have learned throughout my kitchen reno is to itemize as much as possible, down to the last fixture, the last detail -- type of paint, for example. Leave nothing unanswered, and where possible identify and specify all of the materials yourself, before getting the contractors' quotes. Then you can ask them to bid specifically on what you want.

One of the quotes I got was twice the price of two others. There is loads of variation out there. Most people say to get three bids. I say get at least that many -- four or even five is better.

That seems a little high to me, if there's no structural work being done but there are so many other factors. Does that include all of the plumbing and electrical? Are you ripping out walls and re-drywalling them to do plumbing and electrical work? All of that needs to be taken into account.

I'd be getting more bids for sure. I got 3 bids, all relatively close which made me more confident that it was indeed the 'going rate', so I went with the contractor I was most comfortable with.

I need to read the sample contract in more detail, but yes, that is supposed to include plumbing and electrical. We are not ripping out any walls. The plumbing will be connecting the sinks and faucets. The electrical will be installing 2 new light fixtures (replacing 2 old ones) and installing under cabinet lighting.

The floors are new and don't need refinishing.

I have found that a lot of contractors have a sort of understood low number of 30K for jobs. I had the same people (who I have used before and who are terrific-- I'm not bashing them) give me a 30K bid two wildly different jobs (one much more extensive than the other). When I had them itemize for the not-extensive job I saw lots of "padding" and I realized that will all the layers they have (the company, then the project manager, then all his guys) that they don't really want to show up for less than that.

Since my kitchen reno was also not extensive, and I also knew more than most anyone I talked to, I just went with the two guys and no one else. They hired some people they knew to do drywall and painting. If, through references or experience, you know people like that, use them. Your tile guy might work-- I bet he has a friend who is a great carpenter who needs work and another guy who does great lighting who would love to help, etc. These days, paying exorbitant prices isn't necessary.

Not knowing what labor is in your area, I agree with the other posters that it doesn't sound like you need a full fledged kitchen contractor. A good layout plan with a KD (free in many places if you order their cabinets), you can probably find a carpenter or handyman who can do the sink/faucet hookups and the light replacements. Sounds like the only new wiring you need is the under cabinet stuff and you can get an electrician for that. Probably a week for cabinet installation tops two people, add another day for demo.A good handyman can probably do all of the above and patch drywall/pain also, possibly for half of the labor that your contractor wants. Good luck!

Thanks. You all are the best. What bothers me most about the contract is the concept of allowances. There is a 25% markup if we go over on any allowances. I don't need that-I'm going to do the shopping myself anyway. I genuinely appreciate all the advice!

I just wanted to add that alot of contractors go to places like Lowe's and Home Depot and have them do the design and then present it to their clients as their own.
I hired a couple of guys to do the drywall and install the cabinets. I hired a Licensed Electrician off of Craigslist who was very nice, inexpensive and reliable. I had my regular plumber move the gas line and will probably have my handyman connect everything. Right now, I'm looking for a good granite person. I will interview about 4-5 and should find a good one.

My husband builds custom homes and does some renovations here and there. He would even tell you to get more then 1 bid. Three is about the average.

Just remember to make sure that ALL of the bids you get include the same items (same light fixtures, same cabinets, etc).

My hubby tell me that $40,000 - $50,000 was the AVERAGE kitchen renovation, in our area anyway. That included nice cabinets, granite counters, light fixtures and high end appliances.

we do a cost plus contract on all of remodels, plus a flat fee for my contractors and suppliers (vendor discounts) and time to manage material delivery, trade schedule, clean up, inspections, permits, drawings, etc. example. last job we broke down each stage, total costs were 27k. my fee is 8k flat, so if the homeowner goes over budget, we DO NOT charge more for our fee, only the difference in price of the labor or materials involved. this eliminates any questions on whether we are trying to "SELL" more expensive products. the home went over budget 3k because they chose higher end fixtures, both plumbing ang electrical, and very expensive tile for their backsplash. Since all receipts and invoices are seen by the homeowner, it is completely transparent, and they are more comfortable. Thats how we do our business. 8k is not based on a percentage, but how much time it takes to start and finish the job. clock starts at drafting and permitting and stops at completion of any punch lists. we are in Houston and it seems the best way for me to do business and the homeowners are happy as well.

Keo