I understand you took advice from people whom you assumed knew what they were speaking about but too late is never a good time to research your choices as you are now finding out.

If the installer had used one of the newer tile leveling systems (Tuscan, Tornado, ProLeveling, etc) along with medium bedding mortar instead of thinset, there woiuld NOT have been an issue with lippage the pattern at all. This is precisely the situation that those systems were developed for. The grout issue could be an older batch, but most likely is the installers fault also for mixing it with too much water. 100% the installers fault, both for not keeping up with industry technology, and for not recommending a pattern that was more within his skill set without the technology. And yeah, it doesn't do much good to try to hitch the horse after he's fled the barnn.

Oh my gosh, I am very sorry this happened, how frustrating. I dont get the comments that you should have done your research better. If I had hired an engineer to build a building and it fell down, or ended up crooked, I dont think people would be saying I needed to be studying up on structural engineering!

Unfortunately, having read this forum for a bit, stuff like this seems very common (although I know people probably post what went wrong far more often than what went right). Rework is no fun for anyone, contractor or homeowner.

What have they offerred to do to fix it?

From mongoct in Baths:

"(2) Secondly, do I have remove the thinset between the tiles (where I put the spacers) before applying the grout - or just apply the grout over it?

If it has oozed up high in some places, then yes, scrape it out. What you don;t want is deep grout in some areas and a thin veneer of grout over thinset in other areas. That can lead to shadowing and blotchy grout color.

(3). Finally, is it ok to have some slight (about 1/10 of an inch) difference in height between adjoining tiles? I checked the floor level before the install and it was indeed level. Is there anything I can do during grouting to even it out.

Lippage does happen. In commercial installations, the general guideline is for maximum lippage to be no more than about 1/4th the width fo the grout joint. So if you had 1/4" grout joints, 1/16" inch of lippage is allowable. That guideline is for professional installations."

OOTM - Thanks. It is very frustrating. I did a lot of research on this remodel but I don't know everything and definitely don't think it is a fair expectation for the homeowner know everything. Right now the plan is to clean and revisit the floors since the grout should be dry. For some reason the KD thinks once they are clean they will look better. I have no idea why. She also said that once we get a table in the kitchen it will look better. But that would only be because it would hide any problems. Sigh. I am not sure what is going to happen.

Treb - Thanks for the info.

millworkman - I guess I should have googled "Will my tile job suck" before picking out or having the tile installed.

Green - Thanks for the info on the leveling systems. I ordered the grout when I placed the order for the tile so it should not be old grout. I am guessing it was mixed incorrectly.

It's a beautiful tile, and if installed correctly, will be beautiful in your home. Your installer owes you all new tile and a competent install. The new leveling systems and correct products are what is called for here. Most tile distributors offer installers classes in how to use the systems free of charge if he'd just take the time out to learn how to do the job correctly. If he's incapable of that, your GC needs to step up to the plate and make things right, and then take it up with the tile contractor himself to resolve the financials.

"but too late is never a good time to research your choices as you are now finding out."

These are ridiculous, responsibility dodging type statements. Laypeople are often unaware of the potential for problems and even if they are and try to educate themselves, they still can not learn everything about a trade before having work done! Funny how HO's get slapped for their lack of knowledge in home construction rather than the professionals who did the work.

It seems your contractors don't have a lot of experience. The light areas indicate too much water was used. This can wash the pigment out and/or leave effluoresence on the surface. Using a mild acid like vinegar with a soft brush (after curing) can remove it, going to a stronger product if not. Why they would jump to regrouting is odd. They just wiped some grout over top?

I see you have done the credit card test. They are even? I think a test like that is intended for an occasional tile, not lippage problems across the whole floor. That is a bigger problem that should have been discovered and addressed before even laying the tile.

They should have advised and researched the issues for how to handle those tiles, not just laid them. Those installation problems are within the parameters of the work of the trade. An experienced tile man would know better. And if not, contractors have the same access to resources on the internet as we do, and then some.

I imagine you paid a small fortune for this so expect a quality job. Check over at John Bridge tile forum to see what they say.

Good luck, hope they back their work.

I don't get something here ... the OP said that the tiles were warped. How is a leveling system going to make warped tiles flat? If the system is used on the corners to make them level, won't the tile just be higher in the center if they are bowed? A leveling system is not going to make bowed tiles flat ... if one corner edge rises, it's going to pull up the center edge as well.

so sorry for your troubles. it is very frustrating when we as homeowners take the advice of a professional with bad results! you could have done research ad nasuem on tile installations and still not caught the issues that are causing your problems. if it's any consolation, people like me read posts like yours to learn what to avoid so you undoubtably will save someone from these issues in the future!
good luck to you and hopefully you will get a solution you can live with:)

Isixpacku, I'm sorry you're going through this. I don't really understand why it's so common that contractors do substandard work. I mean, it's their JOB to do this stuff. I can't imagine the equivalent of installing a countertop without a level or tape measure in my profession but this seems all too common.

I have definitely read about cupping on large, long tiles like you selected. I believe it is difficult (maybe even impossible? not sure) to make perfectly flat large format rectangular tiles. I believe it is because they warp during the firing process. And I believe they do usually recommend a different installation than 50/50 brick to minimize it. I am very sorry that you're disappointed with the install. I did want to mention that I think your floors look gorgeous, even with the slight lippage. Obviously I can't speak for whether you should or shouldn't be satisfied, but without actually feeling it, I might be inclined to live with it in order to keep those lovely floors.

The installer lays the tile as the designer/general contractor/homeowner instructs. For all we know, he may have pointed out the issues concerning going against the manufacturers recommendations to the decision makers before the install. The tiles are not necessarily defective. That's the nature of the beast. Tile is not stone. It is not completely flat.

People want what they see in the design magazines and they are chock full of large format tiles laid in a 50/50 offset pattern. And they want skinny grout joints. And they mistakenly think that buying rectified tiles mean that they won't have lippage. Manufactures make those recommendations for a reason. If you choose to disregard those recommendations (and many do, myself included), you will likely find that there is a trade off. As long as you are not expecting perfection, the trade off may be satisfactory. As live-wire-oak pointed out, if there is warpage in the tile, the lippage can only be minimized, not eliminated.

Same thing happened in my kitchen with 20 x 20" tiles installed in running bond. I still don't know if it was the tile itself or the incompetent installers but some tiles had lippage problems and the grout was a number of different colors (I had them use epoxy grout). The lippage cannot be resolved. However, there is a possible solution to the multicolor grout problem. I bought a product called Aquamix Grout Colorant and redid the grout color with a tiny brush. It came out so beautifully that it looks like the grout is brand new - and all one color! And it was really FUN to do! It made a world of difference in what the floor looks like. It is definitely worth a try.

I just wanted to add that your floor is gorgeous!

My DH just had 12 x 24"'s installed in his bathroom and they are perfectly level. Not a hair of lippage so it can be done. But his tiles were not offset so maybe that makes a really big difference.

"She also said that once we get a table in the kitchen it will look better. But that would only be because it would hide any problem."

It might not hide the problem if the chairs get hung up on the lippage when you try to slide them out. Try it and see if it's a problem.

"For some reason the KD thinks once they are clean they will look better. I have no idea why."

I agree with you. Aren't they newly installed? You'd think they'd be pretty clean already. Maybe she's hoping that time passing will help you get used to it.

"Not a hair of lippage so it can be done. But his tiles were not offset so maybe that makes a really big difference."

It does make a difference.

Regarding the blotchy grout, I would let the grout dry thoroughly before considering coloring it with something. It may be that some areas are drying more quickly than others. I've heard that some people mist their grout with water periodically to help it dry uniformly, but I don't know of anyone personally who actually did it.

At the bottom of the page I linked there are recommended installs specifically for Lefka. Isn't "Lefla Install Scheme #1" the one you used?

Here is a link that might be useful: Lefka Install Schemes

jerzeegirl, your link links back to this page.

Let's try that again.

Here is a link that might be useful: Here's the link

Isixpacku, so sorry about your tile floor lippage and grout color issues. Please keep us updated on what the installers plan to do to make you happy.

Thank you everyone for this information since I will finally be installing my 17.5 X 17.5 rectified tiles and I want to do the 50/50 Running Bond pattern so I will have to decide what to do as I want a skinny grout line. Maybe I will have to install them diagonal or not do 50/50 despite being square and do them 30/70. I will show the installers the information above when the store that I am hiring to do the wood floors in the other rooms comes here to give me an estimate on the tile. I had been waiting to change the cabinets first but I have too much going on in my life and need to settle the insurance claim and feel I will just install under the appliances. I have extra tile to go under the cabinets when I am ready to remove the kitchen cabinets after I do many other home improvement projects. I wish I could do it all now but I keep having one crisis after another and need the claim settled.

I am saddened as I really wanted the 50/50 running bond pattern that looks good with my tiles from doing a dry lay down on my floor.

Thank you!

I am not sure there would be a problem with 18 x 18" in running bond. I have the 50-50 running bond pattern and I feel quite certain that if my regular tile guy did it, rather than my clownish kitchen contractors, my floor would have been perfect. Leveling the floor before starting has a lot to do with it as well as being careful to keep leveling as you install. Frankly, I am not buying the story the OP's tile guys gave about the tile not being flat in the middle. If you are buying expensive Italian tile, then the quality control should be pretty good and it should lay pretty flat. Get out one of your leftover pieces and lay it on a table. I am guessing that Happy Floors makes a pretty flat tile. It's more likely your floor was not levet and it's entirely up to the tile guy to level it out.

jerszeegirl, thank you for reminding me that I must make sure the installers level the floor before installing the tiles!

Once they lay the cement board (Hardibacker board IIRC), the floor is level, isn't it? Not sure what you mean by continuing to level it.

Lynn, my tile is 18 x 18" running bond and I think my grout line is 1/8". No lippage problem.

"Frankly, I am not buying the story the OP's tile guys gave about the tile not being flat in the middle. If you are buying expensive Italian tile, then the quality control should be pretty good and it should lay pretty flat. Get out one of your leftover pieces and lay it on a table."

Scroll up and you will see that the OP did exactly that.

Just make sure that they use medium bed mortar instead of thinset. It has more body so it's better able to provide the support that large format tile needs and it makes it easier to level. Any tile 16x16 or larger is classed as a large format tile.

The larger the tile, the more warpage it has. Long skinny tiles are worse than square tiles. It's not a defect. It's normal. And that's why large format has special install requirements, like the medium bed mortar and the 1/3 offset or leveling system use.

Once they lay the cement board (Hardibacker board IIRC), the floor is level, isn't it? Not sure what you mean by continuing to level it.

I live in Florida so everything here is on a slab. No matter how well a floor is leveled sometimes you have to adjust to make sure that the tile evens up with the one next to it.

Here's a picture of my DH's bathroom floor being installed. Those blue things are for leveling (and ergo preventing lippage and making sure the joints are the same size.).

I would be very mad if I bought expensive tile and found out that it was defective. I honestly think the OP should try to get her money back for the tile if it is that bad. It also makes me think twice about Happy Floors as I was very fond of their Koncept series and considering it for my bathroom - so I'm crossing that off the list.

Here is a link that might be useful: leveling system

This post was edited by jerzeegirl on Tue, Jun 24, 14 at 19:33

My tile has lippage I only notice if I really look for it.

I wonder if the grout color evened out? My first thought was perhaps it is an optical illusion where the same shade of gray looks different depending on what it is next to and shadows. It just seems unusual the color would vary so much in one mixed batch. See this link for an explanation of the "shades of grey illusion"

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/12/07/optical_illusion_shades_of_grey.html

Any tile product over 20" can expect to have varying degrees of warpage. You cant heat tile to the temperatures necessary and not have some bowing. That is the reason that virtually every manufacturer and distributor of these tiles highly recommend against doing a 50/50 brick joint with tiles of this size. Happy Floors goes as far as to put installation recomendations on every order that ships showing 50/50 not recommended. As far as the grout goes, the discoloration is more than likely an installer adding a little too much water here and there. This could have been taken care of if installers would take the time to "damp cure" the grout which is an old school practice that todays installers wont take the time to do.

Isixpacku, I am so sorry to hear about the problems with your new floor. I had a new tile floor installed in my kitchen about a year ago using the 12 x 24 inch tile in the 50/50 pattern like yours and my floor has very little lippage. In fact my floor installers did a fabulous job. I also have no problems with the grout being different colors. If I were you, and was that unhappy about my floor, I would have them rip it out and have other installers put in a new floor correctly.

Re: Aquamix Grout colorant. My installer used something called Antique White grout that actually is dark beige. I tried to live with it, didn't like it (ivory tile.) I ordered the grout colorant and spent a lot of time doing a big section. Finally bit the bullet and spent $1k to redo the grout. Day and night. It looks completely different with a good grouted installation compared to the grout colorant, which has a painty looking effect to it.

What did happen with the OP's tile Problem??

anyone know??

Psst this thread is almost 2 years old

Its always recommended to use a tile leveling system to minimize
lippage. Even if the installer is very professional nowadays many use a
tile system to prevent lippage. Many diy homeowners and contractors use
our ATR tile system