Switch and be happy with your new cabinetmaker.

"I break with thee, I break with thee, I break with thee ... and then throw dog-poopie on his shoes." (Steve Martin)

kick him to the curb- you'll regret it later if you don't. From what I've read in all of your other posts, it sounds like you are going to have a fabulous kitchen- which will most likely have a pretty nice pricetag, and your current guy says no soft close drawers?! That one thing would make me dump him.

Good luck!! Can't wait to see your kitchen :)

I had to do the break up thing in January, though mine was because my GC only uses his own guy, and I wanted the GC. It's hard, but be pleasant and warm, and don't let yourself be talked into anything, and you can do it.

YOU did the design. He said he can't give you what you want. You've paid him for his work so far, right? Did you sign a contract with him? Even if you do, since no major work has been done you can probably get out of it with minimal due. I do think he should keep the $500. (I paid my guy for his preliminary drawings even though we didn't have a contract or anything, and even though they were a really wrong, because it was work that was done on my behalf, and it was the right thing to do.)

My mother (wise woman) says, "Least said soonest mended." Just tell him you've decided you're not comfortable working with him and you want to cancel. You don't owe him an explanation. If he presses you, say something general about how he can't give you things you really want. (True: like soft close and coffered ceilings, even if the latter is because of budget.) Say you're going to reassess your plans and start over. And give it a couple of weeks to settle before you sign anything with the new guy. Go for it! Get what you want!

Geez, don't be so timid. Its your kitchen and its your money, you are the customer. When we bid our cabinets we got bids from 28-48. The bid for 48k didnt even include everything we wanted....This is a business transaction, not an interpersonal relationship. If he can't give you what you want, you need to go elsewhere. Don't be rude about it, just respectfully decline his proposal.

i cannot believe myself sometimes! i'm not a timid person AT ALL! of course he keeps the $500, i'm not worried about that at all.
reminds me of times before i was married and i had to break up with a boyfriend. or worse, when i was working and would have to bring in my staff for performance reviews! ughhhh... breaking up is hard to do.

and can someone please clarify: i've been under the impression soft close was not an option for inset doors. i've read it more than once on this site. have i misunderstood? thx!

Check the thread below...several people contest the statement that you cannot have soft-close w/inset (e.g., ErikaNH)...they have it!

I suspect it's a case of many cabinet makers either not knowing about the soft-close feature or not wanting to build to the specs and install them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: Full Overlay or Inset?

I have full extension Blum glides with soft-close on all my inset drawers. I chose to do exposed hinges on my doors, however, so I don't have soft-close on the doors. I could have had soft-close on the doors also if I had chosen European hinges.

I'm having the same problem. My guy drew up elevations of my design, and won't give me full overlay, or a 5 pc drawer front!
I'm going to give him $300 and send him on his way. (This is La, things are cheaper here). The first two times he came I wasn't sure what was out there. He left me hanging for a month and a half, and I educated myself in that time. I know exactly what I want. But, he's not willing to give me that.
My GC offered to call him and tell him that if he doesn't give me what I want he's going to lose the business, but I figured it's something I need to do.

Why can't you just add the soft close after the fact? I did in my kitchen. I would buy the drawer glides myself and save in the long run, he will charge more than they cost anyway.

Also, my cabinet maker has a machine that cuts all his wood for him. We design in the computer and the computer makes all the cuts from one or more boards. He will hand do the front trims. I would not pay top dollar unless this was the option for your order. BTW, he is GREEK!!

I will say though that custom wood cabinets give a different grain look especially if staining. It is important to discuss this beforehand. I had to have my guy spray in the clear coat some color/stain to even out the areas that did not "take" as much stain as others. Sometimes custom is not always the look you get!!

Break it off and fret not!

It's business. The cabinet company will always take care of its interests. You should take -- must take, for no-one else will -- care of yours.

I wish I had learned this earlier on, as I would have ditched the co. to which I'm now beholden -- not for the quality of their work, which I think quite good, or even for their price (though they're not cheap), but b/c it was much harder to work with them and get what I wanted than it should have been. (And, I'm not getting everything I want.)

You, luckily, can still get *exactly* what you want. Do it and enjoy the outcome!

I say be honest, and tell him that after speaking to another cabinetmaker you just can't ignore a $10,000 price difference and the fact that he is able to offer something you really want with the soft close drawers. I too am confused by why he wasn't able to offer those, I had the option of getting them on my drawers, and like Erika, I opted for exposed hinges on my doors so it wasn't an option on those.

But...before you switch, I would make sure you see some more of the other cabinetmakers work AND talk to others about how their installations went, etc. Price isn't always everything, and seeing someone's shop doesn't mean that they install well or that they are careful about not messing up your walls, floors, etc. I would just want to make sure that they have the whole package going that you want, and not just a better price on the same or similar product. Our cabinetmaker's bid was higher than one of the other ones in our area, but he also went the extra mile in the long run and gave me things that he didn't charge me for, made sure I was happy with everything, and was very careful while working in my space. We also had great lines of communication, which is worth money to me. If the new place has it all, I wouldn't hesitate to switch, you will be happier in the end.

Good luck!

Kat :)

Confirming what others have said - Just had beaded inset, soft close drawers installed this week.

I agree with lesmis - have a talk with your original cabinet maker and give him the opportunity to explain the price difference and why you're not getting everything you want. You've got nothing to lose and remember, cheaper isn't always better!

If this is the guy who did a few drawings and still couldn't get close to the design elements you specifically asked for, I wouldn't give him the chance to explain anything about the price difference. I would thank my lucky stars that not only did I FINALLY get someone to HEAR me, but that he does a nice job and for less, too. To me, with what you've already been through, the price difference is more like a bonus.

right rhome410. i talked to this guy for 45 minutes about the kitchen and less than two days later he'd drawn it EXACTLY as i spec'd. the new cabinet maker has been in business over 25 years and has an excellent reputation, plus my builder has used him on most of his custom builds. i will of course get references and contact them about their experience.

ok. i'll pay you to call my old cab guy and do the break up. how much do you want?

I'm not volunteering! I hate confrontation of any type, too, so don't blame you for the lack of enthusiasm for doing it. Is your hubby any good at such things? ;-) (mine's worse than me!)

I will loan you my secret break-up trick (unfortunately tried and true on a wallpaper guy, a finish carpenter, a tile installer, and a GC over the past few years....). I usually am the one that finds these people and develops the working relationships during the details of the project. Then, if it's not going well, I feel terrible about telling them It's Over b/c I LIKE them, even if I don't like their work. In comes DH. One of his main functions with these projects is to "release" the people who don't work out. He sure doesn't love doing it, but he loves me so he does it:)

I feel your pain - we had to break up with a design/build firm after signing an $18k design contract and spending months doing drawings and selections. They came in $100k over our budget, which was just ridiculous. It was very nerve-wracking to have the conversation, but I felt so empowered afterward. I kept it polite, told them we were not going to pay the balance we owed on the $18k, and we were certainly not going to have them build our addition, but that they could keep what we'd already paid them.

Then we found a local builder who did exactly what we wanted, and more, for the price we wanted - we got so much more than the design firm's outrageously expensive plan included. AND we got inset cabinets with soft-close doors! You can do it - good luck!

If there's one thing I know well, it breakups....

Maybe the only thing I know well....

> would you break up with him?

If you have to ask, isn't the answer to that question almost always "yes"?

$10K is a steep price difference; makes me wonder if there are quality or materials differences between the two contractors. There are standard estimating guides in wide use, and experienced contractors have a good idea about likely costs, times, and the inevitable unexpected items, backordered parts, etc. that often make the last 5% of the job take longer than the first 95%.

You need to do the brave thing here.

Call the gentleman and tell him that you're terribly sorry but your significant other came home last night and told you that you're bankrupt and unfortunately you'll have to put the whole renovation project on hold but if he is driving by your house for some reason and should happen to see activity and workmen he should not assume that you have hired someone else because it's actually, and this is so embarassing, but it's actually the people who installed your current kitchen and you weren't able to make your last payment so they are coming in and repossessing it one piece of wood at a time.

Works like a charm for me - every time ! ;)

the 10K difference is not really such a big difference when you consider the size and amount of work going into this project. the materials/workmanship is comparable. the kitchen is 22x18 and includes a large hutch for the breakfast room. my highest bid was over 120K just for the cabinets.

i like your story sailormann, but it's a new build... i'm trying to think of some story that utilizes the bankrupt theme... good idea.
maybe, yes, the house is being sided and the stone is going up but there is no kitchen?

yeah, i think that's good...

as for dh doing the dirty work that's just not happening. i'm the one who does all of this. my attorney husband is not much of a shark at all ...except on paper. he pushes it around all day and has never been in a courtroom; well, just when he got called for jury duty.

Katekouros,

You feel guilty, because you are a kind person.
You do not have to lie or make excuses. That would be
weak. And of all your posts in the past you are not
a weak person. Be honest and fair. Let the guilt go, be
polite and say good bye.

I always say:
"Saying yes to someone else can mean that your saying No to
yourself. Make sure your Yes is not going to hurt you."

Saying Yes to him means no inset softclose for you.
It is perfectly okay to say goodbye and let him go.
If he get's mad, it is his anger not yours. You are not
responsible for his anger. (Sadness or bad feelings)

Anger or sadness is not appropriate in business.

Will he try to convince you stay with him?
Sure, In this economy he is a fool not to work with you.
Obviously he has done inset-soft close before. But perhaps
they are hard work, more money and added difficulty.
He wants to bang out this job and be done with it. His loss.
If he wanted the business he would do kitchen the way you
want it. His choice.

And now you have to say NO to him and YES to you.
Be kind to yourself and do not feel guilty about this.
And get your softclose, inset kitchen. :) And you can do
this with peace in your heart and continue to be the kind
person you are. No guilt.
You should only have guilt if you intentionally tried
to hurt him. You did not.

Let us know how it goes, GW is a great place to get
support in situations likes this. You can do it. Get
the kitchen you deserve.
~boxerpups

I agree with boxerpups - no reason to lie to him - tell him the truth - give him the chance to change his bid and then decide what's best for you.

Have you actually told the first carpenter that he has the job?
If so, yes it is certainly more awkward.

If not, then tell him all the quotes are in now and there are some areas of his work and estimate you really like, and there are some areas of the work and estimate you prefer from someone else. After all considerations you have decided to go with the other bid. Thank you very much for your time and consideration.

Done. :)

This is exactly how my own case went down. The one that lost out on the job was of course disappointed, but they deal with this sort of thing all the time. You win some, you lose some!

thank you everyone! boxerpups, you're right. i can do this although i'm not sure i'm as kind as you think! and no katienic, i haven't told the latest cabinet maker he has the job. my builder wanted me to meet him, told me he does beautiful work at reasonable cost. so GC set up the meeting and told him in fact, that i already have someone but still wanted me to meet him. i'm away with my family for the holiday weekend so i'll collect my thoughts and go over everything with dh as soon as we home. i'm interested to see the bids for the rest of the house as well: two long walls of bookshelves for our gallery, closets for all bedrooms, my dh's office, playroom built ins, mudroom lockers and a pantry, vanities for three baths and a make up room desk for a dressing room. i think i mentioned it's a new build so it's a large job for someone. obviously i need to get the best workmanship for reasonable cost. i know things are bad for a lot of businesses and this is a job that can keep someone afloat for a while. i think if so many weren't suffering with the economy it would be easier to let him go; i don't know. but yes, i know what has to be done. wish me luck. i'll let you know how it goes.
many thanks again!

Good luck with the break up. I always get so worked up about this sort of thing. I try to devise all sorts of stories in my head to explain. DH always says just tell the truth ---in my 10 years of marriage I have converted to his way --- I won't admit it to him, but the outcome is always better. My sister, (and me previously) would both make all sorts of crazy excuses. Problem is, then you worry about the story catching up with you. If you just tell the guy, "Thanks so much for your bid and your time. I was really impressed with your work. You make beautiful cabinets. But, one thing I really wanted was the soft close drawers with my inset cabinets. I heard about a cabinet maker that makes this combo, so I had him do a bid as well. I expected it to not be competitive, but it was actually significantly lower. In this economy we need to make wise financial choices, and in this case I'd save some money and get the soft close that I really had my heart set on, so I feel like it is the right choice for us. Thanks again for all of your help.

Of course, he may argue it with you, but in the end, you have the proof to back you up --- you want the glides, and the price IS better. No brainer. I am about to have to do this with builders --- we have 4 courting us right now, they all are bending over backwards to be helpful. Unfortunately, we can only use 1. I live in a small town and will see one of them all the time. Can you believe he is my lowest choice, but I am such a wimp that I have considered picking him so I don't have to avoid him! Luckily, one really great builder in the area has just given us a bid that is almost 100k less --- I don't know how he does it because he does everything the nice way, doesn't cut corners. All of the most beautiful homes by our property were built by him. I am so thrilled to have just gotten his bid because now I'll be able to tell the other 3 the price was so much better, we just couldn't ignore it --- we need to save money where possible. It is not just a choice of our favorite (though I really liked this builder the most as well). Anyway, I am dreading the "talk" too, so I understand, but I am definitely going to just tell them, I am getting everything I want with this guy, and the price is MUCH lower. My architect told me he suspects all of the other builders will try to drop prices to entice me. If that happens, I have a bit more negotiating power with this guy too (though I HATE negotiating). GOOD LUCK TO YOU --- just tell him the truth and move on --- you'll spend more time fretting about it, and once you do it, it won't be a big deal. Just seems like a big deal now. Rachel

Great words Rachel (mythreesons)
truly inspiring.

And good luck Kateskouros, You can do this! Yes,
you are kind.
Let us all know how it went.
We all support you on GW.
boxerpups

This is all so odd. I don't think that I do want soft close with my inset drawers and apparently I'm going to get them anyway because...that's what the cabinet maker wants to install. I'm not sure what the rationale is. The soft close are made in the US and the regular ones are made in Germany. They cost $1.00 more or they cost $1.00 less ... or something ... but none of these reasons add up! Why can't I just decide? Why do I stand up for myself on one issue and get creamed on another one!

And why is he telling me that exposed hinges are going to cost lots of money because they require mortising when on a different thread a GWebber pointed out that Amerock makes a fully adjustable exposed hinge that doesn't require mortising?

Grrr.

So....it's Wednesday....any action yet?

fern4, my inset cabinets also have exposed hinges that are non-mortised and adjustable. Stick to your guns and insist on getting what you want.

Well...I don't know. He just told me that he used the non-mortised exposed ones once and that they did not perform well and he strongly recommended against using them. It's hard to know when to push and when to accept the judgment of people who do this day in and day out.

Fern, I meant to say in the other post about this that my cabinet guy wasn't thrilled that I was using exposed hinges, but he was very honest in saying that they were a huge pain in the neck for him. He said that with hidden hinges it's a piece of cake to adjust the doors and with the exposed hinges he had to shim them in order to adjust them. He was absolutely fine with using them and has used them a lot, but he did mention that they were a pain for him. On inset doors it's really important to get the clearances even on each side so they look nice when you stand back and look at them. There isn't any room for fudging the way they hang and he said that with hidden hinges the adjustment process is MUCH easier. That may be why he is pushing you towards hidden hinges. Just a thought. Places like Crown Point and cabinet people who make lots of inset doors are used to the exacting detail that comes along with doing these kinds of doors, that's why you pay extra for inset doors and drawers because they do require precision and with exposed hinges that adjustment process is apparently even a little more work if you have to shim them, which some of ours are. You can't see the shims but our guys did have to fiddle with them (just a few doors) to get them all to line up and hang just right.

Erika did any of your doors need a little shimming?

Kat :)