A 13 year old girl is perfectly capable of telling her mother if she wants to hang up. This should be between the girl and her mother. I would never consider telling my kids or their father that they could only talk to him for x amount of time. Do you always check up on her like this? What if she goes to the library and IM's her mother? Is that forbidden too?

Why isn't she calling her daughter on a land line, which would be free for the call recipient?

I think a good idea would be to set up a phrase or code saying that SD can say to let you know she is ready to get off the phone.
Like,"Ok nice talking to you mom,but I have homework to do"

Then,if BM keeps talking,you can then take the phone and say she had to go...but only if SD is comfortable with that idea.

Are the days ordered? If she talks for 40 minutes one day, can those minutes be used as two 20 minute calls? I have agree that she is old enough that she can say, I need to get homework done, or say she's busy if she doesn't want to talk. I know that mom's can make you feel guilty and she may not want to hurt mom's feelings, but she really needs to be the one to speak up if it bothers her. If you or DH say something, well, she already knows it bothers you and maybe she enjoys irritating you. It shouldn't bother you unless SD is coming to you and complaining. If the only way you know is the other kids telling you or checking the phone log, then I would just leave it alone. If mom is doing it because it has been such a big issue, then perhaps if you ignore it (or even encourage her to call more so she can see it doesn't bother you), then she may lose interest in doing it. It's kinda like Thurman's problem where the child disagrees or argues about menial things. They do it to get a reaction and when you send her an email, she knows it's worked. It's called diffusing.

and if the problem is really that SD doesn't want to talk that long, she should find a way to tell her mom because it's good for her to learn to communicate her needs to her mom. In this case, her need may be for some space.

SD has always been "afraid" of saying things to her BM for fear of "hurting" her feelings. BM says things such as "you don't love me", etc. When SD was young (about 6) BM would say things to her all the time about how if she didn't call her at specific times that it meant she didn't love her, etc. This is many, many years of conditioning from BM that SD will not say anything to her BM. In the past I have been in the room when SD was talking (such as on the phone in the kitchen) and could hear SD basically pleading to get off the phone (umm... I need to get ready for bed, I still have homework, I REALLY need to go now) and being that BM talks so LOUD I can actually hear her through the phone many times and she would get snippy and say, NO! I have the RIGHT to talk to you as long as I want to! You can go when I'm done!

Seriously, even though it sounds trivial, the phone call thing is a big issue because of the emotional harm I believe it causes my SD. Although, she likes to hear from her BM she hates talking to her on the phone. Almost every phone call is BM talking and SD keeping her mouth shut on the other end. You might hear SD say 1-2 sentences throughout the entire call.

Yes, we monitor the length of the calls because of the constant abuse from BM. More than anything it is because BM likes to take things to court and is always making claims that we have denied phone calls, etc. We have started to try to keep a log to show days, times, and length of calls. This again, is primarily for documentation purposes. So, obviously we would have logged the call anyway. I mentioned my other kids saying she was on the phone for a VERY long time... because frankly, they usually wouldn't even notice or care that she was on the phone, but this triggered the thought "okay, if they are noticing that she has been on the phone so long... how long IS a very long time?" I should mention that ALL of our children at home are teenage girls!

Yes, this is court ordered for 15 minutes twice a week. No, the days/times are not specified but there is a "verbal" agreement between DH and BM as to when those will be. But, heaven forbid if SD has an activity during that time!!!! Even though BM ALWAYS has her calls almost double what she is court ordered, she will make a HUGE issue if she misses a call and needs to call back at a different time.

The idea of monitoring the time on the calls is to give SD an "out" and get her out of the middle.

She is 13 years old. She is plenty old enough to deal with her mother by herself. She NEEDS to deal with her mother by herself.

Not all teenagers like to talk on the phone for a long time - everyone of my kids absolutely hated the telephone. Some of them still don't like talking on the phone as adults.

The child is not the one in the middle in this situation. You should not get in the middle of the relationship between the girl and her mom.

I dont think SM should even listen in on calls between dad and xwife. SM should talk to dad, and tell him to deal with it.

wimom27

As kids get older, most courts recognize that the needs change. They tend to begin to spend more time with friends and less time with parents. Even when there is an order for visitation, if the child refuses to go, the courts usually are less willing to force teenagers to go. It's different with small children, which parents have greater influence over. I wouldn't force her to accept the calls but I also wouldn't monitor the time or content. If she never learns to tell her mom anything, she will have this problem all her life. She may end up as an adult that has an overbearing mom that comes over or calls all the time and if it bothers her, she will always be miserable. It really is up to her to set the boundaries for her relationship with her mom. It may be hard and you may want to get her a counselor if she doesn't have one already, so she can have that support. The counselor may even be able to tell her mom, but coming from you or even your husband, isn't going to help, in my opinion.

Ok, obviously KKNY and theotherside are off the mark.

I know exactly what you are talking about -- and it is a power play by the mother. When my SS's mother moved away, she decided to call him whenever it was convenient for her -- usually when she was waiting for her train in the morning. Well, that was NOT convenient for him and so he told her that. Didn't matter -- she wanted to talk and was entitled to talk whenever she wanted. It got so ridiculous that she would continue to call and one time when I was helping him with last minute vocab studying, he told her "I'm studying for a test today -- I'll talk to you later" and hung up. Guess what, she called right back "hurt" that he wouldn't talk. He said "Mom, I can't talk, I have to go" etc. etc. So we finally had to make it clear to her that morning is NOT the time to call him and she needed to accept this for her child's benefit.

What she has created is a situation where he hates to take her calls. He doesn't respond to text messages, etc. because it usually revolves around her trying to manipulate him and he won't have it. Thank God!

So, your SD does need you and your husband to help her deal with this. You need to help her to be comfortable to push back on her mother.....she needs to understand that she (SD) also has rights in the relationship with her mother. I think you need to help the poor girl find her way to a place where she can try to have a relationship with her mother while maintaining her personal boundaries.

jerseystepmom,

Interesting, that even though imamommy actually said something similar to what I had said, I (and kkny) are supposedly wrong, but you had no comment about imamommy's post. These knee jerk reactions are not helpful.

TOS, believe me when I say that sadly not all 13 year olds can deal honestly with their moms. I agree, at that age they should be able to voice their feelings to, of all people, their mom. Unfortunately, there are some mothers who will scream and yell, make their kids feel incredibly guilty, even call names and fling insults when something is said that they don't like. Something as simple as "I need to go and do my homework" is suddenly turned into a guilt session because mommy isn't important enough, child doesn't care enough, mommy *never* sees child and mommy misses child, mommy feels so alone, etc. If the child has grown up experiencing this, they tend to learn what to do to *survive* - tell mom what she wants to hear. This includes not feeling able to tell mom they need to get off the phone to do homework.

It all comes back to parents who have never learned how to think of anyone before themselves. I believe they truly can't see how their child needing to do homework has nothing to do with the way child feels about them. All it means is THE CHILD NEEDS TO DO HOMEWORK and mom called at a busy time. A parent who understands this simple concept has a problem understanding how a child couldn't just get off the phone, I can can speak with years of experience when I say it is anything but simple to tell this type of person anything other than what they want to hear.

Just to be clear, I did not say "She's 13 and that's old enough to tell her mom" My suggestion is yes, that she should be encouraged to find a way to communicate how she feels with her mom. I believe that the dad should be able to tell the mom to stop calling but she obviously isn't listening and may be calling just to spite them BECAUSE he keeps telling her to stop. It may be a better idea to get a counselor or even an other third party that can talk to mom on behalf of the girl. While some 13 year olds may have no problem telling mom themselves, some never get up the nerve to tell mom, they just take it and eventually avoid that parent like justnotmartha said.

The only reason that I don't think it's a good idea for dad or step mom to intervene is because 1. Mom's already ignoring the previous requests. 2. Mom may only be doing it to irritate them. 3. Coming from dad, it's not being taken seriously as SD having a problem with it. If mom hears it from a counselor, teacher or trusted family friend, she may realize that it IS her daughter that has a problem with it, not just dad and step mom being nit picky.

If a 13 year old can't tell his or her mother that he needs or wants to hang up (and I think it is a rare teenager who is that desperate to do her homework - would she be that anxious to get off the phone if she were talking to a friend?), then the custodial parent should be concerned that he has been raising the child to be too compliant - maybe all that talk about "respecting your elders," for instance, or severe punishments such as grounding for perceived rudeness.

If the over long phone calls are really upsetting your step daughter. Then yes you should set the 15 minute limit. Of course step daughter is feeling guilty and does not want to hurt her moms feelings by just hanging up on her. The issue is what does your SD want.Talk with her and if she wishes to talk for just 15 minutes then you and hubby should enfource it..

Being on the phone for 40 minutes with a pal is a lot different than listening/talking to an adult .... You can't keep a teenagers attention for that long sitting in a room together never mind on the phone. Their minds are wondering sideways. If the child is not responding what could mom be possibly saying??? corn was on sale at the market... she saved $1.00 buying 2 cakes instead of one? probably nothing a kid is interested in. My SC's mom used to complain about her job to her kids how much she hated it... until the 10 yr old said well if you hate it so much why don't you just quit.

Give the kid a timer ... tell her to tell mom... daddy says I can only be on for 15 minutes when the buzzer goes off I have to get off I don't want to get punished and not be able to visit you this/next weekend. ... let him be the bad guy. Gives daughter an out and puts the blame on daddy.

Write it on a note card so she can repeat it easily... Hi mom... daddy gave me a timer says I can only be on the phone for 15 minutes after that I have to get off or it takes off time for our next phone call.

I know some people out there would be shocked to learn that parents manipulate their children... but it happens.

I see it with my SD who comes in from mom's crying how she won't see mom for 2 days.... well you didn't see daddy for two days did you cry for him...???? you should be running out of the car to see daddy after two days... amazingly she stopped crying ran over to dad and hugged him because she missed him... mommy was pulling ... I am going to miss you so much my house is going to be so lonely without you there... the dog misses you... all while mom is bawling... right along side the kid. But thats not manipulation ... thats a poor mom just trying to help her children adjust... oh wait its mom's depression so her children should feel her pain too. Oh no its gotta be that hubby paid the court system to give him custody.

Instead of mom saying ... I'll see you in a couple days be good at school.... they hear her poor me stories...

yep

TOS, it could be homework, dinner, a game, you name it. If SD implies anything is more important than a talk with mom all hell breaks lose.

It's everything to do with how she has been raised - to fear her mother's reactions. She has no problem telling her dad, me, grandparents or friends that she needs to get off the phone for whatever reason. Just as she fears rocking the boat with her mom in any situation, her call is the only one she can't hang up from.

Grounding for perceived rudeness???

"daddy says I can only be on for 15 minutes when the buzzer goes off I have to get off I don't want to get punished and not be able to visit you this/next weekend. ."

If she says that, you are likely to end up in court - and lose. It is not legal (and it is very, very, wrong) to punish a child by interfering with visitation.

Are you still going to be monitoring her calls when she is 18? Her relationship with her mother is HER relationship. Unless her mother is beating her up, you should stay out of it. She needs to deal with her mother in her own way. Claiming that she is incapable of standing up for herself is tantamount to saying she is incompetent, and is disrespectful of the girl.

I think ya'll sound like a bunch of control freaks. Big deal. She talked for forty minutes, one time. And you want to make an issue of that? By the time a child is thirteen, she should be able to talk as long as she wants, to her mother on the phone, or her father, if the father is non custodial. If the girl actually doesnt want to talk, then its about time , at 13, that she learned to set her own limits, and say, gotta go now. YES, some parents can guilt kids or pressure kids, but if a kid cant learn to stand up to a little pressure on the other end of the phone, how the heck do you expect them to ever resist pressure from their peers to do things that are unacceptable? Not being able to hang up a phone indicates a severe lack of self esteem imo, and there are deeper issues than mom wanting to talk a little too long.

DId it occur to you that just maybe the reason the call went on for forty minutes was because you and your husband werent there, so your step daughter didnt feel the disapproval coming from you and hubby for talking to mom? The girl just may be feeling caughtin the middle.

PIck and choose your issues wisely. I think half the problems with the biomoms that some of you write about are at least partly reciprocated by your own actions. Its very very hard for two women in particular, to just get along in this kind of situation.

I think the poster states SD does not want to have to talk for 40 minutes. And the court order states 15 minutes!

I also agree that under normal circumstances, a child of any age should be able to speak freely to his/her parent. But if the child doesn't wish to talk and is forced to talk under court order, then it really puts the child in a bad position. I also agree with Kathline, that if the child feels the CP is disapproving of the calls, that would be a reason for a child to say they don't want to talk. and here, we only have the information from one side. The information provided is that SD doesn't want to talk and her mom has conditioned her.

Growing up, my mom was similar. She had "the look" and if you dared talk to her how she perceived as being rude, all hell broke loose. I have also seen mothers use tremendous guilt to control their children, so it does happen. Just spend an afternoon in Wal Mart (or any busy store) and listen to the parents and the way some of them talk to their children. It's horrifying sometimes.

and allowing a child to say "I can only talk for 15 minutes or I am going to be grounded" is giving a child an out and letting dad take the blame for being the bad guy. It doesn't mean she WILL be grounded. Is it encouraging her to lie? Maybe. But if it has to be the lesser of two evils, a white lie or hanging up on her mom, I'd choose the white lie. She's already tried telling the woman and she obviously doesn't care.

If it were my situation, I wouldn't make an issue out of it at all. Of course, I have the opposite problem, my SD's mom doesn't call her or take her calls. But, unless the SD is coming to the CP and upset that she has to do this, I would leave it alone. and if she did come to me, I would do what is in my previous post, have her talk to her counselor and maybe get the counselor to talk to her mom if she can't do it herself.

When my children were visiting their father, he discouraged them from calling me, and when they asked to call home, he would ask them why they needed to call. It had nothing to do with the cost of the call, and I don't think they ever talked for more than a few minutes. When the one child who continued to be allowed to visit got a cell phone, she would call me at 11 or 12 at night, after her father and his wife had gone to bed. Often she seemed reluctant to hang up - and of course I am happy to talk to my kids for as long as they wish. I think that Kathline is quite possibly right - the girl talked to her mom for a long time specifically because her father and stepmother were not around to act disapproving.

I would be heart broken if I would have to limit my time on the phone with my daughter. If SD does not want to talk, she should be able to decide herself. Why can't mom talk for 40 minutes?

It is NOT the first time she has talked for 40 minutes. EVERY phone call is over 15 minutes, most are 30 or more. Most of the time SD takes the phone in her room and shuts the door. We do not say anything to her about how long she is on the phone unless it is getting really long and/or she has somewhere to go. Sometimes she will talk in my office and I have to come in and out. Many times I have seen SD rolling her eyes.... counting specks on the wall, etc. while obviously BM is going on and on and on about HER life and SD is subjected to just sit and listen. SD has tried over and over to tell BM she doesn't like talking on the phone (even to her friends for that matter). She has tried tell BM that she needs to do other things, etc. None of it works! BM is very self-centered and it is always about her. She has a very difficult time doing anything that is a benefit for SD (which is exactly why the courts gave my DH full legal/physical custody of his DD).

Thanks to everyone for their opinions, suggestions, etc.

wimom, I think you are a very caring person toward your stepkid, and I think you only want the best for her.

BUt try to think about how I , and probably other people read your story.

Your daughter is thirteen. She is at the age where she is faced with pressure every day, from all kinds of sources.

Her mom has , in your words, been pressuring her . Her mom has two phone calls a week, and I think it is probably a testimony to how difficult things must be between the two households, that the calls are court ordered. In most houses , kids of divorce at 13 can freely talk to either parent, as long as they want, as often as they want.

Now, the situation. You were out. Daughter was on phone with her mother, for twice the usual time. When you came home, your other children ratted her out and told you. She didnt. That says to me she wasnt particulary bothered about it at the time.

The first thing your husband did was fly to the computer and complain to the ex.

NOw, what I read from this is ( please dont be offended)

a) your husband, and maybe you, are as easy to annoy as th emom is

b) your daughter feels caught in the middle because she either is too weak to set any boundaries ( which is dangerous as a teenager), OR , she feels very strongly that you disapprove of her talking to her mother, and she feels compelled to either hide it from you, or act indifferent in front of you because she senses your disapproval. In my opinion, she really does feel caught between a rock and a hard place.

You arent doing yoru stepdaughter any favours to be flying to her supposed defence at her age. You are perpetuating the problem with mom, and not allowing your stepchild to grow by letting her handle it herself.

She will never learn to have the self confidence to handle a tough situation if you dont let her.

I really think its time for you and your husband to stop the war...there will be no fight if one side just doesnt play. Let the mom be an idiot if she wants to , but you and your husband dont have to fall into it as well. Your daughter is the one who is suffering here, because she loves BOTH her parents, and she doesnt want to displease either of them. You will probably find that your stepdaughter will , after floundering a bit, learn to handle this all on her own. Let her grow, and do the thing that is appropriate for her age. She isnt a baby. Trust her enough to let her figure it out on her own. Hands off the phone communication, thats between your daughter and her mother. BUt make sure you dont show your disapproval in an attempt to influence the stepkid. THats just as bad as what her mom does by pressuring her...its still pressure, albeit a different kind.

Good luck