how can changing a 20 year old outdoor light timer be this compex

11 years ago

You likely saw my prior post on the cfl bulb that fried either my outdoor light fixture and / or the 20

+ year old timer that controlled it in the garage.

I decided to replace the timer with a switch today and then see if the light fiture would work or not. I know the timer was fried because the red light was off.

My hopes were to remove the timer and find a black wire, a white wire and a copper ground wire. I did not!

I found the timer had only two black wires coming off it. The left black wire was connected to a single BLACK wire in the outlet box. The right black wire was connected to a pair of black wires in the outlet box. It does not seam the white wires (in the back of the box) come into play. There was also a copper ground wire in the outlet box...connected to NOTHING.

FYI...I have a similar time for my front door that appears to be wired in a similar way.

I brought my Dad and his meter over. We can't figure the thing out. We did determine that the pair of black wires in the outlet box (that had been connected to the timer's right black wire) seam to effect my kitchen light...ie if we untwist them, then my kitchen light goes off!

We tried a few things but never saw 110 v at the light fixture. (We thought the fixture might be fried so he put the meter right on the wires that feed the outside fixture)

We tried connecting the pair of wires to one brass screw on the new switch and the single wire to the other brass screw...we connected the copper ground...nothing ever gets power to the wires where the light is....

Any ideas...other than calling an electrician...which I will do Monday.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (9)

andrelaplume2
Original Author
11 years ago
Dad said to mention that he only ever go 50 volts with his meter in the outlet box. The only time he got 110 volts was when he touched the two paired black wires to the copper ground. He fears there may be a short or loose screw in some outlet smewhere that feeds the outdoor fixture.

We can try a new fixture tommorow but failing that or ideas from this forum... it hink I will need an electrician.
weedmeister
11 years ago
Sounds like a switch loop. That is, the device only switches the hot (black) side. The two blacks are the hot supply passing through the box.

The fixture should have both a black and white. The white should be tied in the back to the other whites.
Related Discussions
Fig growers: calling out the old-timers!
Q
Comments (3)
Hi Johnnieb, Old-timer ... I don't know ... let's just say that I have been playing with figs since I was a kid :^). Your title shows DC ... I am just 10 miles to the north in Olney. I have been growing figs here for better than 21 years. My oldest and first tree, A brown turkey (labeled Texas everbearing), has always died back to the ground if not covered. For much of its life I managed it that way ... it would send up new shoots from the ground and I would get fruit on these shoots in the fall. Acually as a test this year I did not cover this tree. It was covered for the last three years and has a fairly large trunk for the area ... I am seeing if the age will allow it to make it through now. In my area a normal winter will have outdoor temps get down to single digits. My thermometer has recorded this year's low at 7deg F so far. It is for this reason that most of my orchard are in large containers and they winter in the garage. In the spring I move them to the garden and bury the pots. To manage the trees I keep them well pruned and small. This way I can fit many more trees (& thus different types) and they are manageable. I have ~7 trees in-ground; they are each wrapped and packed with leaves for the winter. My experience has been that the older a tree is the better it will make the winter (experience for covered tree's so far.) In a number of cases I have lost first year, in-ground trees even if they are covered and well packed. High teens into the 20's have not caused major dieback. Green tips from late fall growth are always lost (together with their brebas for the outdoor trees.) While I get temps into the teens in the garage I usually do well with setting breba crops. My feel is that the single digits together with the winds that put a hurting on the outdoor trees in the winter. The garage temps, while low, are very controlled without large swings in temps. -Steve
...See More
How to change can lights?
Q
Comments (20)
Here is a 3 3/4" recessed fixture designed specifically for a modular Compact Fluorescent pin base lamp with the ballast built into the housing rather than the lamp itself. It is rated at twice the life of an integrated-ballast spiral CFL. The beam spread is wide and it cannot be aimed like halogen incandescent fixtures but Lightolier also makes a wall washer model that has a small side wall reflector positioned to throw light laterally to light a wall. They also make one with different types of glass lenses to hide the lamp and allow them to be used in wet locations. Lightolier also makes a 5" and 6" diameter dedicated CFL fixtures that take larger wattage lamps (the additional beam spread is unnecessary in a residence) and some models position the lamp horizontally which is the most efficient position for a fluorescent lamp. A 5" wide downlight is offered with cross-blade fins that effectively reduce the visibility of the lamp. The biggest design issue with CFL's is commonly misunderstood. When outdoor light or light from an incandescent lamp is reduced, the color becomes warmer (lower color temperature) so we naturally expect that to happen when we dim a residential light fixture. However, the color temperature of a fluorescent lamp remains constant as it is dimmed so we usually think the color of the light becomes more bluish and unpleasant. The higher the color temperature (up to 5000K) of the CFL, the closer it is to daylight but the creepier it looks to us when dimmed. This is a lighting designer's nightmare. All we can do is hope that incandescent technology can catch up before tungsten-halogen lamps no longer meet the government energy conservation standards which is currently scheduled to happen in 10 years. Here is a link that might be useful: CFL downlight
...See More
Old timer Roll Call- Please read
Q
Comments (138)
Wow I feel older now.. I guess I am. My preferences say it was Feb. 2004 but I know I too signed up a few times before then and remember when we had to pay as well. I remember starting out reading about roses, and stumbled onto the home forums. From there it was a marathon reading session because we were *thinking* about a bathroom remodel. I remember wanting to adopt Bill Vincent when we actually did it, he was awesome. After that I tackled the second bathroom. There was the deck and backyard remodel, and of course the pet's forum, which I always check in on. More recently it was the huge kitchen-gutting and remodel. A most recent of all was my den, which I haven't even posted any pics of yet. Next will be the master bedroom -- am saving the best for last. My fondest memory was the outpouring of sympathy when Rusty and Mocha both passed away last year. I'm not so sure I'm fond of the MCM trend, but I sure have noticed it. I have graduated from British Colonial to Art Deco however - at least somewhat. I've also noticed the trend shift from chocolate/blue to grey/yellow lately. But I can't give up my chocolate love :)
...See More
Need help saving 20 year old citrus trees in Jacksonville.
Q
Comments (4)
Sounds like an urban nightmare. What can you do?? First I would look for 2 or 3 trees of the variety you like best, 3 year old trees; and plant them in a part of the garden where you are in control. In a couple of years the new trees will begin to produce; and when they are big enough, you can let go of the older trees. Second, I would definitely prune back any limbs touching the new fence; after that you can reduce the height and let in more light at the same time using a method called "drop crotch pruning"... you can google that and easily learn how to do it. Personally, for oranges and grapefruits of that size, I would not lower the height by more than maybe 5-7 feet. You can repeat the procedure in subsequent years, if you wish more change. Next, give your trees a big shot of a good citrus fertilizer applied at the drip line/fence line and watered in deeply. Lastly, being in Florida, I would treat your trees with imidacloprid foliar application and/or soil drench 3 times per year; ask your local nurseryman or home supply store for the best product to use. Imidacloprid is a systemic insecticide that is also topically active; but enters the plant tissues, killing any insect that sucks on or chews the leaves, without killing the beneficials. Unfortunately, it will not affect your seemingly obnoxious or uncaring neighbor.
...See More
bus_driver
11 years ago
Was the timer powered by the house power or by a spring-wind mechanism?
andrelaplume2
Original Author
11 years ago
not sure...there was a little light indicating it was 'on' though
andrelaplume2
Original Author
11 years ago
weedmiester...original (now dead) timer had only two black wires...no white....left side to single blk in bos, right side to double blk in box...
toxcrusadr
11 years ago
It should work like this:

It appears that this box is upstream of your kitchen light.

Black and white come into the box from wherever the power is coming from. Black (hot) should be connected to another black wire that goes to the kitchen light. Black then goes to the timer, out the other side, and to the outside fixture. From there it comes back as white.

White (neutral) coming in from the supply does not need to go through the timer. It should be connected in to two other white wires, one coming from the outside fixture, and one to the kitchen light.

If you disconnect all the black wires from each other, make sure they are not touching anything, and turn the power on, you should be able to see 120V between one black wire (the incoming power) and either the ground wire or the white wire. If not, there is definitely a problem somewhere.

The bare ground wires should all be connected together. There should be 3, one for each cable coming into the box.
andrelaplume2
Original Author
11 years ago
THANKS ALL. Here is what just worked. I completely removed the old fixture. Note there was a lot of corrosion present on the blk and white wires in the old fixture. Not we hooked up (temporarily) a $5 fixture from HD...bought for testing. Next we connected the single black wire to the top scrrew of the switch and the blk pair to the bottom screw. (I am not sure what Dad did with the single ground int he box hwa just 'hanging' there....maybe connected it to the green screw on the switch. After some checks with his meter, we turned the power on and presto...it works! So now I am going to look into rewiring my old fixture. If that fails I also bought a new motion fixture to install. Hopefully I am in the home stretch....of course it just started to rain....

So let me get this straight...DO NOT USE CFLS OUTSIDE with timers, ....motion lights etc etc unlessmarked acceptable..but LEDS are ok to use... the motion fixture does mention cfls or leds...
andrelaplume2
Original Author
11 years ago
I got my old fixture apart and found the replacement socket at hd and put it back toegther. I am hoping the dusk to dawn thing works out...now only the rain would let up...thanks again.
brickeyee
11 years ago
"but LEDS are ok to use."

I would be vary careful of LED fixtures also.

They commonly use an AC-DC power supply to create the low voltage DC for the LEDs and not all the power supply designs are compatible with the distorted waveform.

A big clue is if the item is suitable for dimming using a 'conventional' (TRIAC incandescent) dimmer).

The light manufacturer is the source of information, not a light or motion sensor manufacturer, unless they are claiming a contact closure and NOT a solid state switch.

how can changing a 20 year old outdoor light timer be this compex

Comments (9)

andrelaplume2
Original Author

weedmeister

Related Discussions

bus_driver

andrelaplume2
Original Author

andrelaplume2
Original Author

toxcrusadr

andrelaplume2
Original Author

andrelaplume2
Original Author

brickeyee

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

how can changing a 20 year old outdoor light timer be this compex

Comments (9)

andrelaplume2Original Author

weedmeister

Related Discussions

bus_driver

andrelaplume2Original Author

andrelaplume2Original Author

toxcrusadr

andrelaplume2Original Author

andrelaplume2Original Author

brickeyee

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

andrelaplume2
Original Author

andrelaplume2
Original Author

andrelaplume2
Original Author

andrelaplume2
Original Author

andrelaplume2
Original Author