Hi, Nivea-- I'm an adult SD also, and have dealt with many of the same things you have, especially the flippant dismissal of the past and then making me the scapegoat for bringing up how it had an effect on me; feeling so outnumbered and minimized; the pain of feeling like Dad doesn't see it (but I think in all these cases somewhere deep down he does... whether he does anything about it or admits he sees it is something else...). The way your situation was worse than mine is the amount of chores you shouldered at such an early age, like a true Cinderella (I wasn't expected to do all those chores til this last summer when I stayed with my dad & his GF because he now has cancer; she gave me corrections on the way I changed *her* cats' litterbox and actually said to me: "you're here to take the workload off me"). And of course you had to deal with that day in day out and I only visited a few times a year. Not trying to compare, because pain is pain; my point is that I can relate. From my perspective of having gone through similar stuff, it does sound at this point like your Dad is still open to listening to you. (Mine has several times come close to "shooting the messenger" and kicking me out of his life, even recently, with cancer, and completely invalidating my pain.) I think it is worth trying to write a letter. Even if he never sees it, even if it is to work out how you will phrase things talking to him in person. If you're like me you have such a swirl of conflicting emotions (you're so hurt but you still need your dad; you're angry at him for being a bystander but you wonder if he felt "trapped", etc.) and fear that once you open your mouth a bunch of uncontrollable, nonsensical rage will come out. So definitely writing out your thoughts and feelings can't but help you clarify and get centered and strong. There is always a temptation in these situations to psychologically write the other parties off, erase them from your mind, etc. Believe me, I've been tempted, and I still struggle to make the regular calls to my dad that I feel I need to make because he needs them as a cancer patient. And the cancer has really caused me to realize that I can't just completely shut the door, no matter how much all this has hurt (the feeling of being so invalidated and GF forcing him to choose, and him choosing to keep me away to make her happy). Even though he has actually said: "I've already said my goodbyes to you", "I won't subject my wife [they just got married in October after 18 yrs, for insurance purposes or something] to your complaints..." Even with all this hurt and rejection, I can't completely shut the door, and I myself didn't know that until cancer came along and kind of forced the issue for me. This is, I guess, why I am so about families doing everything in their power to stay connected and try to reach understandings, and why my heart is going out so much to others in similar situations lately... I have basically found two things the most therapeutic in dealing with these things that have no easy answers and which you will likely never be able to fully escape: -Trying my best to continue the unconditional love a family should give, even if it is not given. I'm actually not religious at all, but this strikes me as something many religious folks might relate to... a form of forgiveness and invincible love. The way I see it, it's a can't-lose situation: giving love which hopefully helps my Dad, and also giving myself the peace of mind that at least *I* have tried my best to do the right thing, so that at least I know that I have found a way to learn unconditional love and support and that this particular family dynamic has not taken that away from me. -Helping others. Helping my dad with many things throughout this disease, trying to help other families at risk of rupturing, feeling like I can try to prevent others from the same problems, offering the perspective of my experience hopefully as "preventative"... No, we can't take on the responsibility of trying to "fix the world" (besides, that would be arrogant)... but things like making a vow to be the most loving supportive mom you can be to re-write the past and try to erase its negativity from the future... The best thing you can do for yourself and others is to continue what it sounds like you've been doing: refusing to let the past drag you and your child down, pouring the energy into building a rewarding life for yourself and your child and friends, etc. If you decide to share your letter with your dad (either it or sentiments from it in conversation), share your hurt honestly but be sure to at least give him a way he can try to atone or help you. He needs to feel like there is something he can do to make it right (even if its impossible for him to do so fully), he needs to feel like you can at least forgive him. Not that he should "get off easy" or feel like a half-a$$ flippant apology "covers it". Tell him all you need for him is to understand and not try to minimize your hurt, and that if he can truly do that, he has helped already to heal a lot of the damage. None of you can go back in time and give you back the full carefree childhood you should have had. But he also needs to know that the situation isn't damaged beyond repair if he's going to feel brave enough to give you the validation and acknowledgement you need.

Finedreams, I agree that at some point, as adults the children do see things for what they are and if they can move on and accept the parents for who they are and that is what I did. I chose to not have a close relationship with my mom because of the behaviors she chose. Regardless of whether she has mental illness or she's just too wrapped up in her own life or pain to see or care how it affects her children, isn't my concern anymore. She's had 25 years to get counseling, or whatever help there might be. Several of us have offered to pay for whatever help she needs. She refused. She therefore chooses to do these things and doesn't care who it hurts. I'm not here to debate why she does what she does. I'm not here to blame her and vent out my anger at her, I'm well past that and have accepted who she is and that she will probably never change. The reason I share these things, is there are some parents out there, that are currently saying to their children, things my mother said to me. There are currently some parents that have the same bitter and angry attitude that my mom has. There are parents that 'justify' the things they do or say to their children, that place the children in the middle or make them choose, that think they are doing what's in their child's best interests. They think the child has a right to hear bad things about the other parent if they are true. And I'm saying that just because a child doesn't stand up and tell you that what you are saying to them or the things you are doing to them or just because they go along with you, it doesn't mean they are not being torn apart inside and hurting from the things being done. They will grow up and in time, they will decide who they are going to have a closer relationship with. They may choose the parent that poison's them against the other parent. They may choose the other parent. It all depends on the child. But, I'm just telling parents that have minor children now, that what you do today, may come back to bite you in the ass in ten or twenty years. Because children should NEVER have to choose. They should never have to decide and if they do choose one over the other, then it is going to be the child that loses. My mom put me in a position to choose and she has never let up. If she had never made me feel I have to choose, I'd probably have a good relationship with both of my parents. Now, I'm the one that doesn't have a good relationship with my mom. My kids don't have a good relationship with their grandmother. Those of you that are putting your kids in the middle or having them choose, it doesn't matter to me if you think they have the right to know the real reason for the divorce, even if it makes their dad look bad because the deserve to know the 'truth'. or if they 'decided on their own' to not see their dad or you want to blame TOW, SM,GF or anyone else. I don't care. You don't have to convince anyone of anything, least of all me. Who care's??? I certainly don't. I feel for the children that go through it because I know how hard it was for me. The end result will reveal the truth anyways. The children that are living in your situation today and will someday grow up and decide if you did the right thing or if they blame you for it, that will be the 'truth'. (and two children from the same situation may draw different conclusions, like I said, it's really up to each child,individually.) This is just a forum of a bunch of strangers. None of us will likely be here (talking on a forum) when your kids are grown and in their 30's. You will have to live with the end result or your actions of what you do today. You can deny or justify all you want now, but you will live with the results for the rest of your life. All I am giving is my perspective as a child of divorce. My mom was bitter and angry about being divorced. She has never gotten over it and while she has tried to poison her children's relationships to our dad, it has backfired and poisoned our relationship with her. That's just my story. I'm not saying all children of divorce feel the same way. Every kid is different. But, don't kid yourself if you think your kid is going to feel what you want them to feel. You can't control that. My story is not unique. I don't know if I'd say it is 'common', but it certainly is not uncommon for the wife to become bitter when the husband divorces her. I don't even think it's uncommon for a wife to become bitter, even when she divorces him. If she thought he would beg her to come back and he doesn't, but moves on and marries someone else, she might resent that too. I'm sure guys get bitter too, I had a lot of first dates with that type. No second dates. But, since this forum is mostly women, I relate it more to women than men.

I have a few questions for the adult stepchildren regarding a situation we're having. I'm sorry this is so long but I wanted to give you as much info as possible. My DH is the most gentle & considerate man I've ever met and is deeply wounded that this situation has only worsened since we've married. Maybe you can help us. Please bear with me.... My SD is estranged from DH after continually lying to him throughout her life and not following through with behavioral promises she made. DH says she was always a pathological liar and is a manipulator and he cannot trust her. She manipulates by "crying, lying & playing victim" to gain sympathy. I have personally witnessed her throwing a 3-year old's tantrum at the age of 21 - throwing herself on the floor and faking loud boo-hoos upon slamming her bedroom door when she was told there would be consequences to her latest lie. Her younger brother continually falls for this - DH used to when she was younger. He would end up comforting her when she would start to whimper & cry. He felt sorry for her at the time b/c she was young. DH made several counseling appointments for her when she was living with him. She would go once or twice and then stop. She went on depression meds a few different times and then would stop. When she was unpset with DH, she would hang up on him, one time telling him "F...Y.., Dad!" She never apologized for any of the hang-ups nor for cursing at her father. He has been at wits' end trying to get her to help herself but she refuses to do so - it seems she would rather manipulate to get her way rather than take any responsibility for her emotional health. This is not an adolescent child or a young teenage girl - this is a married woman with a child. Her husband has become her protector and when she "cries, lies & plays victim" he comes to her rescue to defend her. She even went so far as to lie to him early in their marriage, telling him that she had attempted suicide when she was young. DH had to be the one to tell her hubby that this event never happened. Her hubby was appalled and asked DH "Why didn't you tell me this before I married her?" DH's response was: "I'm really sorry....I guess I was hoping she wouldn't do this to you". Over the past several months, she has begun to systematically destroy SS's relationship with his father. It appears she is succeeding b/c SS has begun acting cold & rude towards DH. SS lives on his own in another town and DH only speaks with him every few weeks. Recently, SS has made comments in SD's favor trying to get DH to feel sorry for her, hoping to excuse her behavior. DH calmly replied that she needs to get herself some professional help. No one need suffer with depression indefinitely anymore. There is help for those who want it. SD continually shut DH out whenever he tried to find out what problems she was dealing with. We know there are no drugs or alcohol involved - this has been a life-long pattern with her. To add to the mix, DH says that SD was always jealous of SS's close relationship with him and we're wondering if she has used a guilt tactic over the years (to her advantage) whereby causing SS to feel guilty that he & DH have a good relationship. This may be why he so readily feels sorry for her - out of guilt. He is not particularly close with her since they've both moved on into their own lives. Her mother was a workaholic who did not partner with DH in disciplining SD about her continual lies - DH says she was not present when he would talk to SD about the lying and when the mother was informed, she did not think it was that big of a problem. The mother had an affair when the children were in their late teens and the marriage dissolved. I met DH two years after the divorce. The mother married her lover four months before we married and then began to show up at places where DH & I were (coincidentally?). She also did this when DH went out on his first date with another woman before me - SD had told her where the couple were going to be. She came by their table and flaunted her lover, acting surprised that DH was there. QUESTIONS: 1) Would it be beneficial for DH to broach the subject of his estrangement with SS23? 2) If so, what would be a good way in which to broach this subject? 3) If SS says he doesn't want to "get involved", should DH tell him he suspects that it's too late for that by the way he is treating DH and ask that SS give DH a chance to explain his truth about the situation? 4) Or, should DH leave SS23 alone and trust that he will mature one day and realize that his sister is not trustworthy and manipulates people for her own benefit? Thank you so much for advice!!

Well the girl got pregnant and has a kid...can not change that now. Most 20 year olds can't support themselves, let alone a child! So you do need a plan! Not sure what state you live in, but most states have things in place to help young moms improve their lives. I got pregnant at 18, while I was in my first year of college. After my son was born I applied for financial aid for school (having a child no longer makes you a dependant and your eligible for tons of grant $). I got a full-ride for community college and lots paid for university. I got daycare assistance so my son attended daycare while I worked full-time and went to school full-time, and I only paid a bit for childcare. I lived at home with my dad during college and while he helped me with my son, he made it clear that he was not a live-in babysitter. After graduating college I got an apartment and began working full-time. A year later I bought my first house. If my dad had thrown me out on the street I would probably be living paycheck to paycheck and having a pretty rough life. Maybe you and your wife can get her to enroll in college and work while putting her child is in daycare. She will not be around much to cause trouble at home (and when she is around she will have homework and want to spend time with her child). Then and she will be working to build a good future for her and her child. One where she will not be trying to move home and borrow money from you and your wife constantly. I bet your wife would be more apt to listen to you if you had a plan like helping her daughter get an education and then moving out instead of telling her you want her daughter out asap and no plans to help her.