If you started dating him before he was divorced, then you were dating a married man. That is not merely "not a good time to start seeing each other;" it is infidelity.

The father is lucky his children will see him at all. My older children want nothing to do with their father. One of them has not spoken to him in close to 9 years.

The father's relationship with the children is paramount. I admire the fact that he insists on maintaining that relationship in the face of resistance from you.

If you continue to give your boyfriend a hard time about spending time with his children without you, you will either doom your relationship or doom his relationship with his children (and it sounds like in your case it will be the former). Then what will you have won?

Thanks for your opinion. I don't think I was partiuclarly clear about the reason I mentioned how soon after their separation (which I had nothing to do with) we started dating. Their marriage had been terrible for years -- the actual separation and divorce was more likely spurred on by the death of his mother, but I suppose you can't say for sure. She told the children, however, that was the reason. When they were younger, they believed this. As they have gotten older and gained more perspective and looked back on the terrible relationship prior to the separation, they both know this is not true.

I also don't want a win/lose contest. Nor do I want to be with him everytime he sees his children (or anywhere near everytime). I simply would like the option to occasionally be invited and I really hate how this young man's attitude ruins the holidays (for me than just me). I would just like him to give me the opportunity. If he hates me after he knows me, then so be it. It's not like he is a little boy anymore -- and neither his father nor myself forced him to be in presence at all for 3-4 years.

Thanks.

Hi Kathleen -
My heart goes out to you whether right or wrong - it truly hurts to be excluded when you'd like to be a part of something.

It is a known fact that marriage depends totally on the two persons involved and how they set up their union. In some marriages the two people see eye-to-eye and stand together philosophically regarding their commitment, etc. - some don't. The detriment happens when the two people are not on the same page and one of the persons is unhappy with this arrangement. It sounds like where you and DH might be in regards to his children.

He may feel no unction to expect his children to treat you with courtesy and civility and they will probably not do that on their own. Nor does it sound like he is willing to apologize to them regarding the past when you two got together.

Children do not have to automatically forgive & forget the past and hurt feelings do not turn usually around without some sort of communication to initiate closure. Then again, there are certain types of personalities that are not willing to communicate and may never change their feelings.

In light of what you've written, you may be correct in moving on with your life where you can obtain emotional peace and acceptance - in yourself and by others. We all deserve a life like that.

Please keep us updated as to your path. God bless.

This may sound very strange Kathleen, but some stepmothers would love to have an arrangement similar to yours! Dad sees his kids regularly and you're not troubled by them... But since you're not --

Let's assume BioMom said horrible things about you and that there's utterly no truth to her vile lies.
And, let's assume that the now-adult stepkids believed those lies and blame you for breaking up their parents' "happy marriage" and destroying their "perfect" childhoods.
Furthermore, let's assume that since Dad has begun seeing you, their distorted views have allowed them to see nothing but what they expected to see.

So now it's time for Dad to take a stand -- either he's committed to you, or he isn't. And if he's committed to you, it's time for him to set the record straight with his kids about what kind of person you are (decent and kind), what role you had in the breakup of the marriage (none), how he feels about you (in love and committed), what his plans are for a future with you (long term), and what kind of behavior he will accept towards you from his children (polite and open-minded).

From that point on, I would urge you not to 'insert yourself' often or directly into the relationship, but rather to be there in the background until his kids have gotten used to you. Be there at the family holidays, but talk to the group next to the kids, not to them directly at first. Let them see you being pleasant to others, and see that other family members appear to like you. Keep it short, pleasant, civil, non-confrontational and impersonal. Give them no reason to dislike you until they're ready to find out for themselves who you really are.

Sweeby -
FANTASTIC advice to Kathleen!!! A lot of wisdom in your words. Thank you for sharing - this is exactly where me & my DH are after 6 years and wondering if this ordeal will ever be over :(

Even my 15 daughter realizes that infedility is an issue. And as to all these men who talk about "seperation" and "trouble marriage" and "my wife doesnt understand me" etc, etc. -- the children (if they were above toddlerhood) know the truth. The may not have recognized it at the time, but later they will put togethor 2 and 2 and realize that they saw daddy's new girl friend when mom and dad were living togethor. I havent told my DD that her dad was having an affair. She figured it out on her own.

Now -- as to her ever accepting TOW - - maybe it could happen. But I doubt it.

My exH maintains to this day that he did not have an affair - even though, among many other things, a) he moved into the OW's house the day he moved out of ours, b) our counselor told me he had admitted the affair to her, c) about a month after he moved out, before he had filed for divorce, he brought one of our kids to her house and while there showed the child the bed that he and the OW shared.

I don't think most adult children would buy the gf had nothing to do with the marriage ending story.

Even if the new gf hadn't met the guy before the separation, her existence would make reconciliation less likely, and you are either married or you're not. It is still infidelity. Infidelity, whether physical or emotional, is wrong.

Regardless of how this relationship began, you've been in it for 8 years, he's still a "boyfriend", & he goes on vacation with the 2 kids & excludes you.

He's treating you badly;
the kids don't have the power without his cooperation & agreement.

You've put up with being treated like you have the plague for years out of your life, it hasn't gotten better, there's no reason for any of them to make it better, if anything it'll get worse.

Take back your life while you still have time to enjoy it;
cut bait & move on.

Right on, Sylvia.

Kathleen, cut your losses and move on.

What are you gaining from this relatioship?
He has not committed to you. And this arrangement
sucks. Get out, and find someone who will treat you
right.

Kathleen,

I agree with Sylvia and Southern. It doesn't sound like a good situation to me at all.

You are concerned about his adult children and how they treat you, but your unhappiness with the situation doesn't seem to phase your bf. If it did, he would do something to improve it. But he's not doing it and he is a big part of the problem.
I think the thing that you need to remember, and hopefully this will help you, is to remind yourself that he is not your husband and his adult children are not your stepchildren. In short, you are a free woman.

After eight years, you can cut bait and walk away from this situation. It is never easy. I've done it and I know. But peace and happiness will prevail.

Keep us posted and best of luck, Kathleen,

June

Kathleen.

I know how you feel and how you think your bf must be so ignorant not to see your point and how hurt your are by his attitude and his son's attitude.

My DH's children once invited their father for an outing and not a word was said of me joining them. I was hurt! Really hurt! I had never done that to them. I always made sur if their father went out with one, i would go with the other. Otherwise, we always did things all together.

When the stepdaughter got older, she invited her father to go to a movie with her. Dear Husband saw nothing wrong with being invited alone. I thought, when she'll come and get her father, she will realize by my behaviour that i am hurt.
IWell, to make a long story short, they finally never went out. However, the whole situation did bother me alot so i know how you feel towards your bf and his son.

Today, if it had to happen again, i wouldn't care. I understand that DH's children might want to be alone with their father and that it has nothing to do with me. It's not with the children that i need to maintain a relationship, it's with hubby. So, although i know how upset you are with bf right now, perhaps it would be a good idea not to pack so quickly. Put yourself in his situation. It seems like divorced father's live with an indescribable amount of ''guiltiness towards their children'' and because they will do anything in the world not to rock the boat with them, they will act like your bf is acting now.

You have been with this man for eight years. You have invested a lot of time in this relationship. Do you really, really, want to give all this energy you have devoted to this relationship, because your bf's son is ignorant towards you? Let him be! Ignore him. Disengage. Be good to yourself. Don't let him ruin your life.

Keep posting.