Don't know if you have read up on Aspergers syndrome at all and not sure if it applies in your situation but I thought of that immediately reading your post. My cousins son was diagnosed with this.

It really sees to be an odd collection of behaviors but what struck me in your post was the auditory symptoms along with this:

"He babbles a lot, much like how a baby or toddler babbles. Random, meaningless phonemes strung together... Last week, just out of curiousity, I popped my head into his room and asked "Hey, whatcha talking about, kiddo?" and his reply was "Huh? I wasn't making any noise."

It's a lot of the same sort of thing my cousins boy deals with and he is working with a therapist 3 days a week plus special education classes in school. He has made great strides the past few years like your A__ has.

Anyway, perhaps you will read up on it and some of it may strike a cord with you. I have not really done this type of nursing so don't know too much about it really.

I feel your S-son is so lucky to have you in his life, you've done wonderful things and helped him so much. You are a great role model and should be proud. Hope your DH realizes what a gem he has.

~Cat

A dear friend's little brother has Asperger's and I'm fairly familiar with it... I have know the brother since he was about 5 and spent a lot of time with him between when he was 6 and 9.
I know it can manifest in different ways, but A__ doesn't appear to act like my friend's brother does:
A__'s warm, understands his feelings, can maintain eye-contact, hold a conversation... That sort of thing.
But he does have trouble with interpersonal relations, empathy, and that side.
Some of his odd behaviors (like ticks) are getting better as his ADHD management improves and his maturity level does too. For my friend's brother, he hasn't shown improvement in those things as he ages - he is 17 now)
A__ also responds with a "downer" effect to Ritalin, which most kids without ADHD don't.

But many of the techniques I used when caring for my friend's brother as a little guy are things I use with A__ too and they are very effective for both those boys... But less effective with my nephew who doesn't have any behavioral or neurological disorders.

I think it is quite possible that A has an auditory processing disorder, but my understanding is that the only professionals qualified to diagnose APD are audiologists. It is not enough to depend on any "screening" provided by a school system. APD testing may include tests of figure/ground discrimination, auditory memory, and auditory closure.

My kids with APD have a lot of trouble understanding conversation when there is background noise, and they process instructions very slowly, sometimes missing things all together. Listening is a cognitive skill for them, so it is difficult or impossible to listen while doing anything else - including eating, getting dressed, or other simple tasks. Does A have trouble understanding conversation over the telephone? That is common in kids with APD, because sound carried over the telephone is missing certain frequencies.

I found this listserve very informative:
http://www.lsoft.com/SCRIPTS/WL.EXE?SL1=CAPD&H=LISTSERV.ICORS.ORG

It sure sounds like there's more going on, and CAPD would be the first place I'd look... Doesn't sound like the Aspergers kids I know either, but doessound like a young man I know diagnosed with ADHD and CAPD.

That said - and I know it's not what you want to hear - I don't think getting a diagnosis is the be-all and end-all. There's a strong tendency to equate 'diagnosis' with 'answer' -- and I've come to realize that just isn't so. (Or could it just be frustration that after 12 years of searching, I still don't think we have the right one?) Most of these diagnoses are subjective, and even if you get one, it's just a label. It might help with your school system -- if they accept the diagnosis, that is. Professional A might say "Yes, without a doubt, it's CAPD" -- then along comes Professional B who says "CAPD is the new Autism spectrum -- overdiagnosed, everybody has it, blah blah blah..."

Sorry - don't mean to be such a downer for you...

But I would definitely persue this angle because it sounds like you're on the right track. There's something going on with either his hearing, his auditory sensitivity, or his perception of sounds, and there may be things you can do about it.

Have you ever heard of 'sound field' systems? Over-simplified, the teacher wears a little microphone, and little speakers placed throughout the classroom amplify the teacher's voice over the background noises. Last I read about it, ALL of the kids benefitted, but those with auditory procesing issues especially. Wasn't even terribly expensive -- like $1,000 per classroom?

Thanks TOS and Sweeby.

TOS -
I'm not sure how A__ does with listening on the telephone - he only talks on the telephone - LOL. I had previously chalked it up to being a chatty kid and that he wasn't taking the time to listen to the call... But I have noticed that he can't relay a simple message like "Ask Mom what time we should pick you up tomorrow" - we have to ask to talk to Mom, which is probably better anyhow so he doesn't feel like a messenger.
It had never occurred to me that it was that he didn't hear the phone properly, or couldn't listen because he couldn't rely on the visual cues of the conversation.

Oh noes! That site appears to require a login! Darn.

After A__'s school nurse gets back to me about his last hearing exam, we might talk to his ADHD doctor about a special hearing test... But as I said, A__ already pines for normalcy and I'm worried he'd feel "broken" if he went for more tests. *sigh*

Sweeby -
I know that a diagnosis is not a solution... But knowing what the problem is can help a lot in the steps to take towards progress. Just like with his ADHD: knowing that he has it does nothing - knowing that he has it, so he/we can learn how to work with it does so much!

I've had classes with something like that system and I LOVED it. Even in a small classroom, a mic on the prof makes it so much easier to hear and follow over others students rattling papers and shuffling in their seats.
A classmate of mine in undergrad had a hearing disability and had a small mic that transmitted to a small hearing aid. The mic was handed to the prof at the start of each lecture, she just had to remember to get it back at the end. If A__ was older, I'd think that was a GREAT idea for him, but at his age, with the cruelness of kids, I think it wouldn't be as good as it could.

Of course, the other thing is that for the first time, FDH is dismissive of something strange I've noticed with A__. When I said that I thought something was up with his hearing/listening, FDH said "Bah, boys don't listen" and was pretty much done with the conversation...
Which makes me think one of two things
1) I'm over-reacting or problematizing something that is pretty normal - which I have been known to do from time to time
or 2) FDH doesn't want something else to be "wrong" with A__ too - he already sometimes seems bummed about A__'s ADHD and that he "can't just be normal" (said after particularly rough day, when we were brainstorming how to make the next day better)
*sigh*
FDH is usually very supportive of both me and A__ and forward-thinking, so this is unusual for him. I will bring it up again soon, after a little more research.

Oh - one more thing I thought of at A__'s soccer practice - if he is not looking directly at the speaker, he hasn't got a freaking clue what they are saying.
For example - coach was doing a drill where they were all running around and then he would shout an instruction that they had to follow. If A__ was facing coach when the instruction was given, he stopped and immediately went into the command. If he was facing away, he would stop, but then look around at what everyone else was doing to copy it. He was facing coach about 3 times and away about 5, so it was certainly a pattern.

But if A__ has another "forgetting the word" episode please let him know others have the same issue and in the grand scheme of things it's pretty normal. My language skills are generally very good, but from time to time I have aphasic episodes where I can see the article in question in my mind's eye, but I'll be darned if I can think of the name. I end up making hand gestures describing the shape and will say something like, "you know, sits on a table, you turn it on and it lights up- yes, that's it, a lamp!" My husband still teases me about "bug antlers" :-) (couldn't remember "antennae"). I've always been like this as far as I can remember and I'm neary 50 now.

ceph, i have no time to respond in detail, my lunch is over in 10 minutes, but I have a student with auditory processing disorder. What you described sounds exactly like J.

APD is very hard to diagnose, it took his mom many years dragging her son from district to district and doctors to finally diagnose him properly in 8th grade. It is a struggle. If that's what he has, it is going to take energy to diagnose him properly.

Yes diagnosis is not a solution but it will give some clue what to do with him and why he is the way he is.

My ss has some (not all but some) of these tendencies.. Some of them have changed or evolved over the years but are still there in some form

He often doesn't know where a sound is coming from (I had put this to that he had ear infections as a kid and has tubes, but then I found out tubes shouldn't do that)
*** Not one that he has has problems with

He often doesn't realize someone is speaking - he says he just hears a sound, but doesn't realize it's talking. I had thought he was just hyper-focused on something else, but he's getting WAY better about hyper-focus and it's still happening.
***ditto but I am guessing not as bad... I will be talking to SS and unless I have grabbed his attention and make sure he makes eye contact with me ... it's like it was all just a buzzing in the backround.

He forgets the meaning of everyday words frequently. Poor little guy cried the other day because he was so frustrated that he couldn't remember the word "armpit" :(
***had some difficulty with this when he was younger... sometimes still has this issue. It's like a little roadblock just popped into his head. I know he had used the word before and I know he knows what it means but it just isnt there and he will get himself frustrated. I usually just use it in several sentences and he'll catch on.

His speech therapy is going very well, but our big struggle is that he doesn't hear the difference between phonemes.
*** not a big problem with him right now... mostly I am sick of the 'ghetto talk' (or at least that is what I call it)

He babbles a lot, much like how a baby or toddler babbles. Random, meaningless phonemes strung together... Last week, just out of curiousity, I popped my head into his room and asked "Hey, whatcha talking about, kiddo?" and his reply was "Huh? I wasn't making any noise."
*** he did used to do this and it would confuse me because I would have no clue what he is talking about. Usually telling him to calm it down and sometimes take a break would solve it. It was like he was so excited about what was going on or what he was doing he just didnt take the time to form full words. Now he (quite frequently) will be moving his mouth. No sound will come out but he is definately 'talking'. I asked him the other day if he realized that he was doing that and he said 'doing what?'
I have no clue how to fix that... right now I am taking a no harm no foul approach to this one. We have so many other things to work on.

He can repeat your words back verbatim, but has no clue what they mean when questioned on it.
For example "Put on your shoes, A__" and he looks right at you while you say it, but then he walks away... When we ask "What did I just tell you?" he can say "Put on your shoes, A__"... but when we ask what he should do with that instruction he is puzzled and has to think about it before he cheerfully exclaims "I should put on my shoes!!" and promptly does it. So I don't think it's just attitude or not listening.
***Big Big problem with SS right now. I ask what did I say... he repeats it... I ask what does that mean or what should you do... he is clueless. I mostly just make a point of asking more questions... like so what should you do... what do you think would be the next step... that way I can be sure he understood what I said in the first place. I keep telling him listening is active that means he needs to think about what is being said. Hearing is inactive ... thats just hearing words bee bop around in your head. I want you to listen to what I am saying... so I want you to think about it and repeat it in your own words (big deal) usually if he can word it in his own words he has got it. If not we know to take a step back and try again.

He often doesn't know if the TV is loud or quiet. He'll be STRAINING to hear it, or covering his ears because it's blaring, but when asked "Why not turn it up/down?" he says he doesn't notice it was quiet/loud. I would chalk it up to lazy or just being a kid, but he will get up to change the lighting or get a blanket and so on. It seems like he has a physical reaction to the volume, but he doesn't have any clue how to affect change to it. Does that even makes sense?
***this could be a bigger problem ... but it could be nothing .. I have had similar situation with all of my kids not just ss with adhd... it's like it just doesnt click that oh yeah that would fix the problem. I guess it would really depend on how often it happens.

Sometimes when listening to a simple instruction, he cannot carry out the task - like folding a towel "Now bring the bottom up to the top" - and he says "I was listening, but I didn't get it"
He genuinely appears to be listening - he is watching, is being quiet, has attentive body language, and so on, but he just doesn't hear it.

***another big one with SS... sometimes it is like I am speaking a foreign language to him and sometimes I do find myself getting frustrated with thinking "How in the hell do I say put the lid on the tupperware container a different way..." I dont really know what the key is here ... I do know I just keep trying to think of different ways to phrase things... and often time I physically put the lid of the container while I am saying it and then he says "Oh! I thought..." and then I take it off and say here you go. I feel like it defeated the purpose of asking him do it for me in the first place but I would rather get him to understand directions than get upset over having to put the 'lid on the container' myself

I honestly dont know anything about auditory processing disorder so I dont know the answer there. But, my ss with adhd has some of these problems/concerns. It is mostly just a day to day thing for us. We know what it takes to get certain things across... ie eye contact or he isnt listening and we make sure other know this. Since he is getting older I am more and more pointing out things like SS, you know you will forget these things if you dont write them down, so you need to write them down... and ss you know you are not listening if you arent making eye contact so make eye contact... take the initiative. My theory is that we are not always going to be able to tell teachers and coaches what his deal is. He needs to realize it and take control of it in order to benefit his life in the long run.

Thanks everyone!!!
Your help with this is great.

I found out why FDH was dismissive/resistant when I first brought this up with him - he feels like there's nothing we can do about it.
He said something last night about A__ not listening, and I took that opportunity to bring my concerns up again by saying "I think it's that he can't listen" and going through the examples I shared with you ladies. He said that he has noticed some of the things, but had chalked then up to being a kid or ADHD as well (he tunes out lots of A__'s chirping and oddities... which bothers me, but that's another post - LOL)
This time he listened to what I had noticed and why I am concerned this is not just being a kid or ADHD. He has agreed to keep an eye on some of A__'s listening behaviors. Then we'll talk more as we watch and as we try different things, and may suggest a hearing assessment to BM.
But he expressed "yeah, but we couldn't DO anything about it, even if we figure it out" and I had to provide encouragement on how much A__ has grown in the last year... I reminded him that ADHD is a medical disorder resulting in a behavioral disorder, just like APD or a hearing disability could be, and A__ has come a long way in managing that, so this would be just another hurdle... And that made ME feel better and less bogged down by all the extra challenges A__ has.
Phew!

ceph,

You do have to join the CAPD list to access the archives. I have been on the list for several years - it is not terribly active, but I have always received speedy responses to any questions I asked, and Dr. Jay Lucker is one of the most well-known authorities in the field.

My daughter does not "hear" what someone is saying unless she is completely focused on them, such as in a lecture situation. I noticed in Kindergarten that she would look to see what her classmates were doing, and do the same thing. If someone told her to do "a" and a bunch of kids were doing "b" she would invariably go off and do "b." Even now, if we are getting ready to go somewhere and I say, "Go get your jacket off the lawn chair," and I start walking to the car, she will walk to the car instead. She is very attune to visual clues rather than auditory.

She doesn't have to take many notes yet, but one of my older kids with APD absolutely can not take notes and listen at the same time.