Transition from aluminum to copper

11 years ago

Looking at buying a place with some aluminum wiring. Insurance shouldn't be a bother but I do see outlets have been replaced with Decora style, which aren't (I believe) AL rated. Assuming they've been done right, there will be a transition via pigtail to copper.

If not, I will be replacing them and doing them properly (vendor or predecessor PAINTED the outlets. Looks stupid.)

Just wondering - haven't seen info online to confirm this or not - can I use regular Marrettes (I prefer Cantwist) on the aluminum to copper transition, with the appropriate paste, or are there special connectors?

Also, can grounds be crimped? I'm assuming not, since the crimps I'm familiar with say copper only.

I should note, I'm in BC, Canada, so the rules are somewhat different, but the principles should be the same.

This post was edited by alan_s_thefirst on Mon, Apr 15, 13 at 1:47

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Comments (9)

alan_s_thefirst
Original Author
11 years ago
Looks like I need these:

No pretwisting? Really? Is that optional, or actually preferable?

Looks like they're pre-treated with antioxidant paste, which is handy.

Here is a link that might be useful: Twister Al/Cu
alan_s_thefirst
Original Author
11 years ago
Edit: Never mind, looks like I found my own answer. I am curious about the pre-twisting, though. I'd think it's a more reliable connection, but given the different expansion coefficients, I wonder it it's wise if it's a Cu/Al mix?
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Wow.. this whole thing sounds confusing... But the code is like the bible. Every Inspector has their on interpretation of the code book. The inspector of this county says its ok to do it this way and in the next county this inspector disapprove of it and want you to do it his way. Even though the code says you can do it this way but being that the inspector has the last say so.. He wants it done his way. Some states that I know of still uses the 2000 code book and some still uses the 2005 and some are now beginning to use 2008. Its all depends on that State's Head Electrical Inspector of which code book they are using. Now, I can explain why things are the way there are. Now. remember this, even though there is a 100A sub feed panel but it is only getting 50amps from main main panel because its on a 50a breaker. Head you used metal Ridget conduit leading to the sub feed panel back to the metal junction box in the crawl. You need not worry about needing the ground rod because the metal box is bound by the panel and the connector of the metal conduit bonds the junction box. In sub feed panel you would have to separate the ground and neutrals if it was done that way. # 6 aluminum is rated for 50 amps. #6 copper is rated for 55 amps now the amps varies depending on the temperature rating of your wire. Now, here are one reason why there should be 4 wires at a sub feed panel. The ground wire is use as an escape way for wasted energy to flow back to ground ( the earth) If ever notice that your lights are extremely bright an not normal or your power tool is running too fast, its because there is no ground. No where for the access energy to escape so it makes your tools and light bulbs run abnormal. The reason why you use the rubber tape is because over a period of time the joints generate heat, standard black tape will melt and you will have expose hots touching neutrals and grounds together causing a fire. So, the heavy duty rubber is tolerant to the high heat. Then you cover the rubber with standard electric tape to keep the rubber from coming undone. The bolt that you used sounds like a different type of split bolt. Same concept but design differently. I'm sure the the entire bolt was all metal. Ok you are right the aluminum wire is not touching the copper wire. If I'm right that zinc metal piece that separate the two metal is also a conductor. Over a period of time aluminum does corrode much faster than copper. Corroded aluminum makes a bad connection which also creates sparks and then fire. The gel is used to keep the aluminum cool and extend its life a little longer than normal. Older homes catch fire because of aluminum wireing that gets over heated and catch fire in the walls. Ok.. enough for now...
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there is absolutely a problem with aluminum wiring in smaller gauges for branch circuits like this, which is why it's no longer made and illegal to use. It's too soft and too difficult to get a good connection, which causes arcing and heating at termination points. In larger gauges it's fine because of the shear mass of it. Why do you think they only make aluminum wire is larger gauges? Take a single strand out of 4/0 wire and smash it down versus the entire thing. Is your life, or your families life worth the money you're going to save to try to cob together a fix? You'll never actually fix the issue unless it's replaced as you'll never be sure to get a secure and safe connection at the terminations. Pig tailing isn't a fail safe either. You can twist off the aluminum wire inside of those little special purple wire nuts. I've done it many times before I finally said I'll never take a job ever again that has aluminum wiring unless it's a total rewire This post was edited by hexus on Sun, Nov 24, 13 at 0:03
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glennsparky
11 years ago
Hi alan. Those wirenuts are still CSA rated, but they are not recommended by the Consumer Product Safety Commission. If you can possibly find AL or ALR rated devices, use paste and a torque screwdriver, that's the way to go. Use AlumiConns
http://kinginnovation.bmobilized.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kinginnovation.com%2Fproducts%2Falumiconn%2F
for the grounds.

The old AL alloy gets brittle too fast when bent or squeezed too hard. Squeezed not hard enough and you get arcing. That's why the torque screwdriver. And why pretwisting is problematic. You can't twist away with wild abandon like you can with copper. Go gentle. If you don't pretwist, the instructions still say, turn the wirenut until the wires twist two times.

This post was edited by glennsparky on Mon, Apr 15, 13 at 3:34
glennsparky
11 years ago
No crimping for you. There's only one listed crimping system. You have to take the manufacturer's training before they will RENT you the crimper. It's mucho dinero per month.
w0lley32
11 years ago
Hi! I am no expert, but I know that my parent's house original wiring is aluminum, and the house was built in 1971. All of the all-aluminum connections, the aluminum-copper connections and the connections with a fixture's wiring have worked flawlessly with the Marrette 63 and Marrette 65. I bought some of the Ideal purple twisters for the kitchen chandelier, and it took about 4 months before the connection failed to the point it melted the wire nut.
alan_s_thefirst
Original Author
11 years ago
Wow re the melting. Thanks for the tips. Ironic that I have a crimper now, but won't have copper to use it on.

Have you seen how much those torque screwdrivers cost? $200-$300 - wow.

This post was edited by alan_s_thefirst on Tue, Apr 16, 13 at 0:15
Ron Natalie
11 years ago
There are two ways to solve the cable connector. First, You can get an "Right Angle F Adapter" at Radio Snack that will probably fix you right up.

They also make replacement cable wall plates that recess (often tilting downward) the jack. These are popular to install behind flat panel TVs. Just google recessed cable wall plate.

Here is a link that might be useful: Right Angle F Adapter at Radio Snack
Ron Natalie
11 years ago
Ignore that last one it was for the other thread.
brickeyee
11 years ago
"Have you seen how much those torque screwdrivers cost? $200-$300 - wow."
Use a small 1/4 inch drive inch-pound wrench and the correct hex drive adapter and bits.

The smaller wenches are a lot less expensive, and the adapters have no affect on torque readings.

You can even use 1/4 inch drive extensions to make reaching easier (I usually keep about a 3 inch one on my wrench).

Transition from aluminum to copper

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Transition from aluminum to copper

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