My marriage wasnt perfect. But I would have stuck it out. It would have been really nice if X would have stuck it out just a few mor years until DD started college.

All of us choose to believe things that make our pasts easier to accept. I thought my ex had never cheated either, but thinking back on things, there were many times things just didn't add up, and he had most likely had many affairs. And, there are tons of desperate women all over.

As far as the OW responsiblity not to commit adultery, we can all hope people will do the right thing. However, ultimately your DH is the one who made a vow to you and bears the responsibility for the broken marriage. Please don't use the OW as the scapegoat....your ex's were grown men who should have made better choices. Plenty of men (particularly those who make good money) manage to say no and walk away. And if this woman was constantly propositioning him and harassing him, he had the obligation to protect himself and his family...get a restraining order because she sounds out of control. Plenty of men suffer depression and don't desert their families. This was your ex's CHOICE...it was bad, ugly and hurtful and you have every right to be angry, but place the anger squarely with who deserves it.

Plenty of men suffer depression and commit suicide, too. People make horrible decisions when suffering from depression.

They are BOTH responsible, and both equally culpable.

Is one of the SMs here the other woman? I don't follow how this got started???

And, yes, both are equally culpable, but he took vows under God to you - she did not. She's a sleazy, slimy, lower than low character who reminds me of the barmaid my friend's DH left her for - some sick spell she has cast over him - leaving a beautiful, sweet, wife and two awesome young children. Her history was one of hitting on married men as I said before - even causing her to lose her previous position at a different bar.

Still, who's the other woman here trying to gain respect? I guess, me? Cawfe? Wasn't she the babysitter, lol, her DH's X accused? My Dh's X told the kids they could have worked it out were it not for me - when it was her sleeping w/ the tennis coach for years. Yes, I was TOW, I guess since the divorce came through five days after our first date. I mean, in the final stages of a divorce, when minor details are being worked out, you can hardly consider them still married - and to be honest, he'd been referring to himself at work as divorced since the one year mark of his leaving their home. I wasn't sure when the paperwork was finalized, though there was no way they were reconciling. But, he'd been out of the house for 1 y 8 m and, call me old-fashioned, but no one could accuse me of sleeping w/ anyone before my marriage...unlike the X who was 5 m. pg when she took her vows, for the third time...

D

I think kkny was referring to her exH's OW, not to anyone here in particular.

I firmly believe that adultery is equally wrong for both partners.

I also believe it is wrong to date while still legally married, and to state that you are divorced when you are not.

I also think it is a mistake to date right after divorce. Waiting one year for each 5 years of marriage is probably an excellent idea.

It is a very good idea to SEE the divorce paperwork before marrying. A local governor's husband had neglected to divorce wife #1 (or maybe it was #2 - the governor was #4) before marrying the next one. Even though he had eventually divorced wife #1, the resulting scandal didn't do much for the governor's political career.

Oh big deal. Guiliani is the major candidate for the Republican nomination for president and he announced he was having an affair for a year, and wanted a divorce, at a press conference. So big deal, his kids dont speak to him and wont campaign for him.

His new wife has it all.

it means nothing.

What means nothing? Honor? Integrity?

Men have a right to move on. That Guiliana is a leading candidate shows that. He owes nothing to x and to children. He has a right to decide his own life.

We all have a right to move on, however we need to be mindful of respecting others in the process. I remember Dr. Phil's advice that marriage partners need to "work their way out" - meaning that as adults, we respectfully communicate with one another to dissolve a marriage in order to get "closure". Of course most of the time this doesn't happen.

I know I wouldn't have had such horribly bitter feelings towards my X if he had respectfully communicated with me before getting himself involved with a younger woman. But I've worked through my hurt and bitterness and moved on - which I deserve to do.

I think it all depends on the people involved and how they interact - same with stepfamilies. Of course this board is evidence that there are many hurts and wounds flying around but we can, at least, try to fill our present lives with as much graciousness and cooperation as possible in order to live more peaceful lives with those with whom we live today and, most importantly, for our own peace of mind.

He does, in fact, owe a great deal to his wife and his children. Commitment, honesty, faithfulness - to name a few.

James Dobson of Focus on the Family, among others, has stated that he will not vote for Giuliani, because of his infidelity and because of his position on abortion. There are a lot of people, both conservative and liberal, who have serious concerns about his ethics.

helenar, are you kidding me? I wonder if you would feel the same way if it was "your" mother or father that had simply "moved on" and had the attitude that they owned "you" nothing.
If your own mom or dad "moved on" and could care less what you thought of their new spouse, and this new spouse's treatment of you.

We have a funny way of changing how we see, or feel about something, depending which viewpoint we are viewing it from, and the people involved. We may see it from your point of view, if we were the "new" wife. You may have a very different opinion if your "dad" is marrying some woman you despise, who you are certain is marrying him for what she can get from your dad. Or your mom has chosen some guy who has never held a job, and now he is going to live off her retirement that she worked 40 years to earn. Life can be like a kaleidiscope, how you see things depends on your viewpoint, and where you are sitting.

Okay, back to topic.

You have been together 10 years.
Depending on your state, you are already common law spouses, and entitled to property rights.

When we lived in a common law state, you were not married unless you presented yourself as married, no matter how long you'd lived together. As long as you didn't tell people you were married, or file jointly, etc., you remained single.

This post has veered wildly off topic. It's about adult women and men dealing with their adult stepchildren. All this talk about the other woman, political causes, etc., is a side matter.

The dynamics involved in meshing a family that includes adult stepchildren are complicated. What end of rope was asking is what happened to the good feelings, how to put aside her own hurt and mistrust over the unraveling of a previously good relationship and how to talk to her stepdaughter.

Thank you, lilysuzanne40 for getting us back on-track! How easily we are led astray :)

The way I read it, endofrope was originally asking for advice from a conciliatory attitude - which is great.

There were some very good suggestions that came in for her. We can all learn from good constructive advice.

I have been reading Step Wars, which has been helpful.

I have also been reading Loving What Is, by Byron Katie,
which has really helped me to insulate myself from
unappreciation and disrespect, and it has made a huge difference in how my husband interacts with me.
I think it has helped more than any book I have every read.

Also, when I read these books, it stays on topic, and doesn't hurl hurtful comments at me. : )

TOS, do you have step-children?

SS...Can you tell me a bit more about Love What Is? It sounds like one I might want to get.

Hi, Lafevem

The idea behind the book is that often it is not
a traumatic event or a situation that causes pain...
it is our feelings about it, and the way we interpret it in our lives. This teaches that we need to understand that some people are just going to be hurtful or unappreciative because that is their nature, and that we aren't going to change it. And that we need to avoid taking things personally, and so on.
A traumatic event is just that...when my SD
failt to appreciate me, it is my interpretation of that which hurts so much, not the event itself.

And so on.

That's so simplistic, but I would really recommend reading it. It has really brought peace into my life.

I am going to look for it. Sounds great!

Hi SS -
Thanks for suggesting the Katie book for all of us. I would like to read it also. The Step Wars book was a god-send for me and I have finished it already - learning A LOT along the way. Of course, the practicing part is the hard part :)

I believe you are so right - it is our own interpretation of situations which causes us pain. But it also gives us a chance to look inside ourselves and try to understand where the pain originates from so we can begin to heal ourselves.

I just chatted with a GF of mine last week who is also a stepmom to two adult SKs. She was saying that the rejection she felt from these SKs brought up past childhood rejection feelings in her and she has learned to deal with her own feelings now. This enables her to see her SKs more objectively and can begin to put herself in their shoes instead of instinctively feeling her own rejection in a given situation. Kudos to her!

I've heard it said that when we react emotionally to something, it is usually because we have our own feelings which we need to examine in order to heal ourselves.

Thanks again for sharing the name of the book.
Blessings!

Not wicked...that is a great observation. I never thought of it that way. It hurts to be rejected and not associate the pain of the rejection with the person. I have also tried to look at my SD's behavior from a more objective viewpoint as of late. I try to keep in mind the pain they have been through and the constant feelings they must have of trying to prove loyalty when they really do love their father. I try to not associate their behavior with them as I know most of it is fed by their BM's insecurity. We went out on another family outing on Saturday and BM continually was texting my oldest SD the whole time asking her what was going on, what we were doing, etc. She even called twice and my oldest SD had to go off and whisper in the phone leading us to believe she was being interrogated. This wasn't my SD calling mom, it was mom calling her everytime. I started thinking about the horrible position my SD is in. Trying to spend time with your dad, but keeping mom appeased at the same time. Trying to never act too happy at your dad's house because then you might tick off BM. It helps me to empathize when I think about their position.

It's true that kids can be put into terrible situations by emotionally immature familymembers. It's almost like the children are being emotionally blackmailed. It's very sad when adults "choose sides" and then rub negative feelings onto the children. The children can suffer in this position for years b/c if none of the adults back off, the scenario will continue forever - well into the SKs' adult years.

Good for you that you are seeing things from the SKs' vantage point and that you are refusing to let their actions hurt you - you know the true source - in this instance, the BM. Hang in there!

When my kids were younger and still visiting their father, they were not allowed to call home when there. They had to come up with a "good" reason and undergo interrogation. When they got cell phones, one in particular would stay awake late at night until my exH and his wife went to bed so they could call me.

They weren't even allowed to communicate with their siblings at home (they were not allowed to visit simultaneously). On one occasion the new wife impersonated the child who was at her house on IM, which the child at home saw through pretty quickly. Did she actually think it wouldn't be discovered?

I had forgotten that little episode until I started typing this post. Guess this thread is not helping me see the "good" in this woman.

Thank you for all the great advise. I just spent the long weekend with the whole family (DH, SK's, SGK's and my DD's). It was wonderful - we all had a great time.

I will definitely look for the book and read it. I also know that sometimes I do take things personally even tho that may not have been the intention. I have to believe in the SK's again but they also have to regain the trust back. Here's hoping we are going down the right track.

Hi E-O-R,
The trust issues are what takes the greatest amount of time. Hang in there - sounds like you're on a positive track :)
Blessings!

I just read my original post and realized I am still feeling the same. I think it is actually getting worse but I also know I am to blame for that as I have no trust for them as they probably don't for me. Two years of emotions is causing havoc - I am not sure if anything will change, maybe best to each go our separate ways to avoid anymore hurt to anyone.

I would be very interested to hear what the adult children of divorce have to say about this.

PS KKNY you still crack me up;)

Well frankly it was none of their business whether or not you & your DH signed a pre-nup. Why do kids today feel entitled to ANY inheritence when parents die. It's not like the KIDS worked for the money.

That is ridiculous and you & your DH's finances are none of their business-period. They should focus on working hard and providing for themselves in their adulthood.

Your came into this marriage with money and your DH was ready to declare bankruptcy. I wish you had signed a prenup to protect YOU, however again your & your DH's finances are between you & your DH, none of the kids business!!

Parents don't "owe" grown kids an inheritence. I certainly wouldn't be inclined to leave such ungrateful brats any of my money-Bio or Step.

And another thing, it's not our jobs as parents to leave our kids with a "fat" inheritence.

It's our jobs as parents to raise self-sufficient, responsible adults who are productive members of society and can tow their own weight.

I am happy my Mother & Stepfather are having a wonderful retirement with no worries about leaving any of us kids money. I want them to spend it now and enjoy life because they both worked hard to EARN what they have and THEY should spend it on themselves.

Isn't it nice to know some children love their parents because they are their parents, their family, their heart?

Not because they are just waiting for dear old Dad & Mom to drop dead and leave them a pile of cash.

I am not suggesting children wait for dear old Mom and DAd to drop dead. What I am suggesting, for the Nth time, is that unless Dad has a good prenup and will, it will be up to mom to decide. So, in all liklihood, moms kids will have a better chance. So unless your the one, Catlettuce, whose DAD has married a younger woman, yes you can be happy that your mom and stepdad are going along as they wish. I realize every one has their own situation, but there is a big difference between saying kids deserve a fat inheritance and saying dads kids should be treated fairly. What if SM inherits all, and then herself remarries? There are too many permutations to work out. My X did agree to a good prenup, etc., and I think it has gone a long way to calming a potentially more stormy relationship with DD.

You and your husband and your kids ARE a family and have been for a long time. You're a real family, with your own history. Your family's legitimacy doesn't depend on the attitude or the involvement of your stepchildren. They are grown adults and have their own lives. If they choose to be a POSITIVE part of your family, that's great. If not, then it's time to build new memories without them. Ultimately, it's their loss because it doesn't sound like the BM is very stable.

"I would be very interested to hear what the adult children of divorce have to say about this."

I agree with lilysuzanne.

In this case, I think it is convienent to blame just biomom though. She is half the problem, end of rope's husband is the other half.

Affairs, cheating, divorce, bringing in a new SO all while the kids are suffering and grieving a divorce.

Many people just say the kids will get over it, they will move on, they will accept in time.

That's not always the case. These things manifest themselves and everyone is different. Sounds like this SD has been holding on to anger and has been manipulated (not a good combo) for a very long time.

I feel for end of rope, I think she honestly tried to connect with her and is honestly hurt, but the SD has probably been more hurt and let down by her parents all these years.

Another thing I've noticed is that most bio parents do not like to acknowledge their part in the hurts of their child. It is very easy to point out biomoms flaws and I have no doubt that she has them, but not state what DH did or could've done better. Or even just acknowledge that he may not have handled things in the best interest of his children.

What about the 60K + a year you earned? You are only getting 25% of the estate that you obviously earned and contributed far more than that.

Were it not for your earnings your DH's business may well have folded. I don't understand why his children would receive more than you & yours combined?

I hope if you are really set on leaving such inheritances you should seek the counsel of an attorney/estate planner. Your so worried about protecting these adult kids but you are not taking protecting your assets that YOU earned.

What happens if God forbid you and or your DH are incompacitated, your kids are not around and your fate is in their hands literally? Will you end up in some crappy smelly nursing home when there is enough money to keep you in a nice private pay facility? Make sure you set up a seperate end of life care acocunt with someone you both trust to be guardian..you might be surprised how often things like this can happen.

A. Nope my Dad did not marry a younger woman-He is dead.

But my Step Dad is 4 years younger than my Mom- Does that count?

B. OP made 60K yearly and supported her nearly bankrupt DH til he got his business back in the black. So why would she accept 1/4 of an estate when she contributed far more.

C. OP's & her DH's finances are NONE of Bios or Step childrens business-PERIOD!

D. I agree OP should have signed a prenup protecting HER!

~Cat

My husband's hard work and sweat has made his business successful. Yes, I did earn 60K a year but did not financially help the business. I stayed back and did the wifely duties: let his son live with me, laundry, cooking etc.
His kids work for the company (making damn good money and abusing him everyday) and were concerned that it is theirs. In haste, I said "give them the f**n company if that is what they are so worried about"; hence, where the 25% for each of his kids and 25% for my kids (my name is not in there at all).
I agree that our finances are NONE of anyone elses business.
We have purchased some properties together however, these are either in his or the company name. I have not said anything about that as I thought this would make his kids happy - not so and now I am starting to think it will never be enough for them and I am utimately getting screwed.
For Richer or Poorer???????????????????
I am actually consulting a lawyer for estate planning to protect myself.
If I had a chance to redo - would I - NOT A CHANCE!!!!!!!!

"Why do kids today feel entitled to ANY inheritence when parents die. It's not like the KIDS worked for the money."...I don't think this is just an issue with today's kids, it's just that now there are so many family dynamics that were not present in the past. I, for one, don't care if I don't get any inheritence from my parents, I do care that the family heirlooms are passed to either me or my brother, not step-brother, because those are things that are generational to my family, not his.

"Another thing I've noticed is that most bio parents do not like to acknowledge their part in the hurts of their child. It is very easy to point out biomoms flaws and I have no doubt that she has them, but not state what DH did or could've done better. Or even just acknowledge that he may not have handled things in the best interest of his children."...I think this statement is so true. I had a hard time for a long time getting along with my SM because she is a difficult person to be around and because she always had the need to dictate where we went and what we did and how long we stayed when I was visiting my dad, along with other things. It wasn't until my DAD acknowledged her behaviour to me and validated my feelings that I was able to let go of all of that hurt and anger and to try to move on from all of that. I have a better relationship with both of them now, because it's easier for me to let her behavior slide when I know that HE notices it too.

All of that said...It sounds to me that end-of-rope has tried very hard to please her SKs and they really are just being spoiled, entitled brats. I'm just wondering, did you ever do what lily suggested and sit down with SD and talk to her about how you are feeling? Are all the Step kids acting this way, or is it just SD?

"If I had a chance to redo - would I - NOT A CHANCE!!!!!!!! "

I hear ya, me too.

I?ll try to make this short:
My parents divorced when I was eight, 32 years ago, and I have 5 siblings (our ages ranged from 2 to 13 years old).
This following is how I felt at different stages in my life:
1. Abandoned and unwanted.
2. Lose of dad, relatives, friends, and feelings of betrayal.
3. A. Anger, due to my BM filling my head with lies, it is all your father?s fault. If he loved yall than why did he leave. He has moved on with his new life and he doesn?t include yall.
B. Responsibility for my BM, always told that we were the only ones that loved her and had to defend her from our BF.
4. Defensive towards BF and blames new wife.
5. BM starts inheritance. All he has is going to go to his new wife and kids.
6. Maturity - It took me getting out on my own and realizing that my BM was and is not telling the truth about my BF. This is the hardest realization for any child. Also, it took my BF to sit me down and tell me his side.

I was the worst at pall-parroting my BM?s anger. Now, I live with regrets of how I acted.
But, my advice to you is:
It is easy for kids or adults kids to manipulate divorced parents because they feel guilty. But, this only adds to the problems. The BF needs to be a parent not a friend.
He needs to explain his side of the divorce to his adult children. They do not realize that their parents have feelings or could be hurt by what they do, so tell them.

Everyone needs to stop tip toeing around the adult children and act like adults themselves.
As far as the inheritance, it is NONE of their business.
When they mention it, calmly state: "Do I tell you what to do with your money, so why do you think you have the right to ask or tell us?" or "It is all going to charity, so you don?t have to worry about it and frankly it is none of your business." Keep saying things like this until they get it.

As far as your relationship with your SD, it won?t improve until you make her responsible for her actions. Her behavior is a result of her BM?s misery and she knows it will be accepted by both of you. Call her out each time she behaves inappropriately. "I can?t believe someone as smart as you would act in such a RUDE or DISRECTFUL manner." Or "How would you feel if I treated you this way." Find away to turn the situation around on her because she doesn?t think she is doing anything wrong. When she brings up her BM, just agree with her. Plan a family outing and don?t invite her. Make sure you address this trip with her the next time you see her. "You know I would have loved for yall to have gone with us but I knew if we invited you, you would have felt uncomfortable or just said no because of your issue with accepting all of us as your family. Maybe, we?ll do it some day.

Ironically, I?m in the exact same situation with my husband and his 4 children. But, I?m better prepared than most especially since I?ve been on both sides. I?m like you I don?t trust 2 of his children and would prefer never to see them again. They are now living with us and I?m not going to let them make my life HELL. Tried the nice road first and didn?t work. Now, I call them out each time they misbehave and it works. This has more of an impact if others are around when I do it. Make them responsible for their actions.

This is not insecurity!! You are fighting a battle with not only the SK?s but with the X and your husband.

Bad SD - thank you so much for this post! You have given me so much hope!

My SD's situation is almost identical to what you describe. She parrots everything BM says and does. Treats DH like he's a deadbeat dad. Ignores his calls, texts and voicemails. DH's adult son does the same thing. We sent a package for Christmas. Never acknowledged receipt of the package, even when asked in a text and e-mail, but yet the check was cashed.

I keep telling DH he has to talk to his kids. He has to explain his side of the story. But he is too afraid of ticking them off. I've also told him he needs to tell SD how rude it is to ignore people, but he doesn't want to be like that when he gets so little time to talk to her as it is.

Thanks for the recent update Bad SD. Things are probably getting worse here. I do not speak to "his" kids at all, I have caught hubby lieing and doing other stuff behind my back.
I realize that this will never change - and am know looking at what is best for my children and I.

OP, How are you now?
~Cat

Things are about the same here - I do not speak to the middle SD; the older SD came for breakfast a couple of weeks ago and it was very tense; SS and I now speak and he seems to understand my point of view.
DH has redone his will - will not bring it home to show me so I am not sure what is in it now. DH still has not put my name on the properties that we purchased together.
Still cannot say anything negative about the SK as they are perfect in Daddy's eyes.
I am still in limbo -

Hi End of Rope, Would like to know what is your relationship with your DH now, how long ago did he do his will and not allow you to see it? I think I d be so angry at him and cant imagine getting past this issue until its resolved..Are you two able to talk civilly? For something as important to your future as his(and your own ) will, I cant imagine day to day life with him with this looming in the backround...I think I personally would be giving ultimatums , wills are something a married couple does together....Thanks

Hey dotz - I found a copy of his will 2 years ago - confronted him about some of the things that were in it (like MY kids going to his parents if we both die); he advised me about 6 months ago that his will is now final and changes have been made. NO - I have not seen it. Our relationship is civil - yes, I am angry and hurt; I cannot get past why he cannot discuss it and it is seriously effecting how I feel about being here and in this marriage. I have thought about the ultimatums, but trust is a big think - he could agree to something and then change it a month later without telling me. I also believe a will should be done together; I have nothing to hide.

Unless your DH (and I don't mean "Dear") has legal rights over YOUR children (has he adopted them?) he has no say in their disposition in the event of your death, surely?
I strongly suspect you have been written out of the will altogether, that's why he won't discuss it. It doesn't sound like your relationship is a happy one; frankly in your shoes I would be out of there so fast I would leave a sonic boom in my wake. In a divorce at least you would have more chance of getting what you are fairly entitled to in terms of property settlement.

End, I wonder if you did both go make wills together, if your attorney could tip you off if he changed it again behind your back, wonder if it would be legal for atty to do so? To inform you, I mean? Geez, giving HIS parents your kids? I m assuming they are your kids together? Without sharing that decision???? I would also wonder if thats legal? My brother had me on his will as guardians of his kids if anything happened to him (he was a widower) and I had to go in and sign I would do this, did his parents do that???? I think I d approach him again with what you need to be satisfied with will terms, or evaluate the whole marriage..Sad situation for you, for sure...

The kids are mine from my first marriage - and no he did not adopt them. He has been an excellent step-father to them BUT that does not give him the right to say where they go in case our MY death.
I do not ask about the will - why? because i will probably just be told lies and is it really worth it?
It is a very sad situation, as I love him dearly but am really wondering if it is all worth it. Yes, I am evaluating the whole marriage.

End, I re read all your posts, you were thinking how unfair it was in 07, 08, 10 and 11....Long time, its probably time to bring it to the foreground with him...Its possible to have a good marriage and not see SKs that are not on board with your relationship( I have 2, one I see, One I dont and havent for almost 4 years..) I suspect a big part of the problems with SK I dont see, he is worried about dads money WAY too much..I love DH too, but if he hid stuff from me, I think its a dealbreaker, it IS hard when you love him and dont want it to be all about the money, but wheres his worry and concern about YOUR future...Good luck

Kids are not entitled to anything! Husbands first priority should always be his wife. This is what each states' inheritance laws say and what the bible also says.

No don't suck it up, it will keep building until it makes you a person you won't even like, that's what you turn into, I know I am there! You hubby should respect your feelings at all times! People told me the same thing don't let them in your circle, that is easier said then done, when my hubby let's it go on, yes some times he would step up, but not enough! It's been hard from the beginning because of their mother is still hanging on to what we are doing after 20 years. Giving in to their BS doesn't teach them anything especially not to respect!