Are you a masochist Thurman?
Someone who gets off on having other people whip him or slap him around?
Otherwise, I just can't understand why you keep coming back here with variations on the same complaint...

Your son wanted his big sister to drive him to a friend's house?
Evil Girl!

I don't think turman is for real, I think he/she just posts for a fun of it. I start doubting the whole story.

Hi folks~

I know these things sound petty, but my situation is only too real. I wish it would go away. My feeling of utter dread when SD is here, coupled with the joy I feel when she leaves. The dread of knowing, because she is single with no children, that she may come back here at any point and there's nothing short of leaving my wife that I can do about it.

Thurman

"I know these things sound petty, but my situation is only too real."

What's real is your perception of the situation.
Your dread is real.
Your resentment is real.
Your anger and unhappiness is real.
And I'm even willing to concede that your interpretation of 13-year-old SD's behavior and intentions may have been real.

But some time between 13 and what - 24?, SD grew up.
It's quite possible - likely even - that she was a nasty brat at 13, but a decent and responsible person now.
That's what happens with most teen girls.
If SD were still nasty and horrible, your wife wouldn't insist she were perfect (though she'd love her DD anyway), and your DS would complain about her big time!
And perhaps most tellingly, if she really were still nasty and horrible, you wouldn't have trouble finding examples of her horribleness that are convincing enough to persuade a bunch of fellow step parents that your step kid is a brat.

"I wish it would go away."

I have a really hard time believing that. Because grudges as deeply held as yours take a lot of nursing. You must get something out of hating SD... A martyr complex? Sympathy at work? Or are you just jealous of your wife's attention? Imagine SD jumps into a raging river, risking her own life to save a drowning child, then is hailed throughout the community as a hero. How would you really feel? (Be honest.) Genuinely happy and proud of her? Or angry that once again, this awful person is being celebrated.

If you really want these bad feelings to go away, it is entirely in your power to make it happen.
I'd recommend therapy.

That last question you asked is a great one. You are right, I would not be proud. I'd probably resent it or try to block out that it happened.

I've tried therapy, but have been unsatisfied with the counselors. My pastors have not had much experience with stepfamilies, and generally are not aware of the different issues that crop up. My counselors have not been very experienced either. I'll look into more experienced stepfamily counseling.

There is only one thing that you can control, your response!

I think he desires to be with his SD and knows she would reject him so he is rejecting her first .... typical high school Bull sh&^

We all come here to vent. That is what this site to me at times is...a place to vent. A place to say something just to get it out because you dont have anyone to say it to...or you'll hurt the one you want to say it to.even knowing if its wrong.
Yeah, thurman comes back to say the same things...so what...we all come here to say the same thing from a different angle. We come here to talk about our stepfamilies. the issues at hand..etc..etc..
THurman hates this adult woman. Period. No amount of counciling will help you thurman. You hate her and there is nothing wrong with that. You don't like her around your son...because you hate her..nothing wrong with it. As long as you keep your hate from your son and do not allow this hate to interfere with his relationship with his sister. He loves his sister even though you do not....Its your right to your feelings. But your son and your wife have their relationship with her and its theirs.
So tough it out. I understand that you loose concentration etc..et.c i've been in situation where i completely despise the person at hand. BUT i'm an adult.And so are you.
So , i dont mind you venting about how she gets on yoru nerves..etc..eetc...you're blowing steam..no problem. I'm not judging you. Come steam away, say whatever. I've accepted the fact you hate her and you need to let steam go.
But please dont stop her in having a relationship with your son ....so please dont vito a car ride. If she's nto drunk and she's fully capable of driving....then i think you will do more harm in saying no.
SMile and keep to your corner until she leaves. I'm sure she'll appreciate that too.

"I've tried therapy, but have been unsatisfied with the counselors."

Of course some counsellors are more skilled than others, but are you sure you don't just dislike their answers?

I managed to get my ex into one court-ordered family counselling session. Ex said she wasn't impressed with him. I thought he was quite competent, she just didn't like being under the microscope and being told perhaps she's wrong.

Thurman, I believe one can overcome 'dislikes' and I really don't believe in 'hating' anyone. It's all so childish.

Honestly, if you drop the barriers and accept (from a counsellor) you will get some 'lumps' (some hard truths you may not like) you will be so much better off and happier for it, trust me.

Actually, pjb, my D and I were dissatisfied with counselors who did not want to ask hard questions. We went through two, before we found one who, as I say, was results oriented. The counselor we liked would generally not say someone was wrong, but would say to your face, you are not being realistic.

I feel that the Pastors I've had (for one) only interpret things from the perspective of a biologically intact family. Or they use the example of Jesus and Joseph (who was Jesus' stepfather) as how such a family should be. Not only was Joseph Jesus' only earthly father, but try to find a stepchild that is like Jesus!

KKNY, I understand your distinction. A good counsellor can make those finer distinctions, which gets further than an absolute. The guy we saw was good in that regard, and put things as gently as he could, but my ex was just not used to hearing it.

Thurman, whilst some pastors make excellent counsellors, not all do. Personally I'd prefer a secular approach, but that's just me. Plus, I'd rather someone with more training, again, not all pastors have it.

My own personal opinion is that you wouldn't likely benefit from a "try to be a good Christian and love one another" type of counselor. You already know that's the 'Christian' thing to do, and if you could do that, you'd have done that long ago.

There's something blocking you from being able to do that. Some reason. And my guess would be that it's not a 'nice pretty' little reason like you could talk comfortably to your pastor about. Not necessarily anything horrible, but probably something you'd not be proud about. And unless you can get down into the mud (figuratively speaking), I don't imagine you're likely to uncover what it is.

For a woman, my first guess would be 'Get Out of My Nest syndrome' -- the un- or semi-conscious thought that if only this little interloper did not exist, I'd have the perfect little family. Push this mis-fit baby out of the nest. I guess it's probably just as plausible for a man to feel that way as for a woman -- but I guess I'm just used to hearing it from women. Could that be it, do you think?

Or if not that, then something else. If you can discover it, you might be able to cure it.

There's probably a mix of things that is hard to overcome after 20 years. No doubt that part of it is that I see my family as my wife, son and myself and do resent my SD when she is here. There's also a strong part which is about feeling disrespected, of not having my wife's backing, of being afraid of my own anger and fearful of "blowing up" so I begin to avoid, and a host of other things.

There's probably a part from my childhood, where I learned to be non-confrontational and "keep the peace" (a common trait in a family with one unstable and addictive parent), and instead of dealing upfront and honestly, I began to keep things inside until they fester.

I'm not sure there is a solution except that I have to change. She is not going away and will always be a part of my wife and son's lives. And they do love her very much. And short of disappearing every time she shows up...I'm going to have to deal more effectively with this.

I think your problem is you married the wrong woman. If you couldn't walk into the relationship realizing your family consisted on your wife, your step daughter and yourself, you should not have married her. It's not fair to her, your step daughter or your son together - her brother - and none of them deserve this.

Shame on you.

I agree with JNM that your family consists of your wife, son and stepdaughter. your problems are coming from not realizing (earlier before you married) that SD will be your family. honestly i am surprised your wife tolerates all this. it would bbe very hard on me if anyone would dislike DD so intenselly or didn't want her to be around.

Something tells me that even if she were like Jesus, you would still find something about her to criticize.

Some good thoughts in your last post Thurman --

Now if you were to take these thoughts to a counselor and work them all the way through --
that would be the best gift you could ever give your wife,
and would surely improve your marriage and your own happiness in turn.

I'll cross my fingers for you --

I was thinking the same thing raek ... gave all that bread to those hungry people left crumbs all over the place ... and didn't even ask if I wanted any.

Helped that man see again ... now they are making fun of my straw roof together.

Showed those people how to fish now I have scales all over my table.

"The dread of knowing, because she is single with no children, that she may come back here at any point and there's nothing short of leaving my wife that I can do about it."

so leave.

"gave all that bread to those hungry people left crumbs all over the place ... and didn't even ask if I wanted any"

snork!

Thurman,

That's the most positive thing I've heard you say ! (the last part) "I'm going to have to deal more effectively with this."

That's definitely a good start. Start counting the positives, but it appears you've realised your perception of her is the big issue. That you can change, and once you let go of that negativity, she will suddenly appear (or actually will) improve. We reflect the 'energy' for want of a better word, we get from a person, so if you can turn that to positive, you'll get positive back.

Also want to emphasize that some of the issues in our home are not just about my feelings about my SD but also have to do with my wife. That is, my wife is so overprotective and doting on her daughter, and believes she is perfect. So she does not want to hear anything negative about her. She just shuts down. Any stepparent knows that you can't fight these battles with a stepchild if the bioparent is going to be completely on the side of the stepchild. My SD holds all the power. This just didn't happen last year...but has been a recurring theme for nearly 20 years.

I'm surprised you didn't leave a long time ago thurman. Knowing that your wife would take her over you.
Its funny. But my husband and i were discussing power and relationships just last night because my sd was caught in a down right lie. A big one and in fact her own mother didn't know, found out during the lie because she got ont hephone with my husband and my husband was asking her wtf is going on? and she didn't know...they both figured out that their daugther was playing tag team. Oh boy. did her mother let her have it last night and her father let her have it.
What i found sad is the main gutt feeling about my sd was completely confirmed last night. That i cannot trust her and that i was right to disengage from her a few years back and to make a stand with my hubby how i felt about her and where my future involving decisions about her stands.
What i was proud of last night, was my husband standing up for himself and for our marriage.
Thurman, if your wife never stood up for you, why did you stay?
For me, i would never have stayed in a marriage if power lay in a childs hands. My dh andi discussed in detail that we agree that power will never lie in his daughters hands. Not even an inch..not a thread. Because its now in the open. She lied. And her own mother was shocked last night and pretty peeved.
come ot think of it, i wouldn't be surprised if sd was the cause of problems for her marriage. My sd admitted to me once, i asked why do they fight, her answere' they fight alot because of me, because of what i do and say. Then why do you do what you do? sd' i dont know, but i dont liek him and i dont' care'
So what do you do with that? i feel sorry for bm having to deal with that attitude...but she's a tough woman. im sure she handles it.
I told my dh, what if the situation was reversed and your daughter didn't like me?, he said its her tough, i'm married with you and she will grow up as well and marry someone as well. That's life.
But that is reality thurman. Your wife doesn't stand by your side. Why did you stay?

Thurman, I would just like to suggest that even if your wife is overprotective -- it might be in response to her perception of your picking on SD. I think a lot of this started because you resent any time your wife spends with or on SD. I'ld also suggest that your SD being a doctor, not being dependent on her mom or you financially, being liked by your son and/or other of your own family members, your SD appears better than 99% of kids of people on this board (or in IRL).

But in any event, we live in the current. You need to sit down, with someone to help you, or without and figure out what is reasonable, especially if SD comes to live near you. I don't think a lunch once a week for mom to see SD is out of line.

Organic, I see this differently, Thurman's wife does stand by him, but she also wants to see her own daughter and be part of her life. The SD has not done anything wrong. What do you think she has done that is wrong? Do you just assume a stepchild is always a lier, always wrong? And apparently Thurman's son wants to be part of SD's life. Organic, the only way Thurman will be happy is if SD never visits. Are you suggesting that Thurman's wife should never see her own Daughter? If you go back and read Thurman's threads as to what SD has done to irritate him it is things like not picking up newspaper he dropped.

organic I agree with kkny. SD never did anything that really is horrible or requires his wife to choose between him or her daughter. he resents SD spending time with this wife so should she not see her daughter to please him?

he resents that SD drives their son, should mom insist that SD is not driving their son? he resents that SD reached over butter at the table, should her mother throw a fit that grown woman reached over butter? those are never serious things like lying. in fact it is never anything that people normally notice.

so in what sense should his wife choose him over his daughter? like stop seeing her? she already visits very infrequently. so what else should wife do? I honestly see it that thurman makes it very difficult on his son and his wife, should they estrange from her as to please thurman?

thurman resents SD's very existance, what do you think should wife do? divorce her daughter?

The one I keep coming back to, the one I worry about, is the wife.

She's living with a man who wants to isolate her from her own daughter, & when that daughter gets her own home & has her own medical practice & isn't around to 1) take the heat & 2) monitor her mother's welfare, thurman will be jealous & resentful of something/somebody else & he'll be browbeating his wife just like he's doing right now.

My guess, is she'll hang in there till the son (don't know if he is both Thurmans and current wife, or current wife is SM) goes to college.

My guess also is SD recognized that Thurman is controlling and trying to isolate her mom, and is keeping an eye on situaiton.

he is thurman's and his wife's son and gets along with SD great, thurman doesn't like that his son loves his sister and that it is mutual. how bizzare. what seems weird to me is that she only visits once in awhile for a short time and how could it bother anyone?

Thurman, have you tried sitting down with your stepdaughter and telling her that you realize the two of you don't have the best relationship and you would like a fresh start? Maybe if you tell her that you would like to have a good relationship with her for her mother and brother's sake, she will be receptive and meet you half way. Of course, you really have to mean it!! Since she is going to be around for the rest of your life, your only other choices are to continue resenting her, or to leave your wife. So I believe having a heart-to-heart as two adults, with respect and willingness to listen to what the other has to say, would go a long way toward improving relations.

but, petra, he *doesn't* want to start fresh.
He *doesn't* want to have a good relationship with her.
He *wouldn't* "mean it".

He wants her away from her mother so he can control/dominate/browbeat/abuse her mother.

As someone said earlier, if this daughter weren't in the picture, he'd resent his own son.

or church.

or the meter reader.

or the television.

& he'd froth & foam at the mouth & be "hurt" (a common strategy) & keep his wife upset & off balance & have her walking on eggshells & feeling guilty & defensive over her son, or church, or the meter reader, or the television.