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jayh_gw

Odd circuit layout (2 breakers on the same conduit)

jayh
17 years ago

I don't know if I'm making sense here, but I wanted to switch a regular 3 prong outlet powering a sump pump and a microwave (they share the same 15amp breaker on a regular outlet in the basement). Granted my house is old, probably from the 1950s, some of the wiring looks old, some of it is newer Romex-style cables, but I found an oddity when replacing the outlet with a 15A GFCI. There are two hot wires (black and red) coming from my old Pushmatic breaker panel with a neutral and a ground (bare) cable. Both hots are sent in the same cable (but coming from opposite sides of the bus) but they share the same neutral and ground (more on this later). The Red (hot) is going to the non-GFCI outlet that I want to replace. The Black (hot) is simply connected to the Load side of the outlet via a wire nut. The neutral of the Load side is connected to the Load side of the outlet. Therefore, the Red Hot is truly just powering the sump pump and microwave which are connected to the outlet but the Black wire is powering anything "downstream" from that outlet. The bad part is the neutral is not wire nutted and then connected to the White side of the outlet so when I removed the outlet, I've now removed the neutral connection except that I fortunately saw the 2nd hot wire in the same conduit, traced that back to another breaker and turned that breaker off. I guess this is why it is recommended to not use the outlet screws for multiple connections on a non-GFCI, to use a wire nut and then connect that wire nut to the screw. If I did not see the second Hot Wire and removed the outlet, Whatever is powered on the second hot wire now has no other way for neutral/ground except for perhaps... me.

The second oddity I found was the load cable is an armored BX type conduit but only has 3 conductor and no ground. I.e. it has a black, red, and white cable. And it's not a Romex type cable but has a nylon/polyester like braid that is painted and the paint is all flaking off. The red cable is not used. Therefore, any lights, outlets upstairs is not grounded even though they have 3 prong outlets. I went upstairs and unscrewed some of the outlet panels on the known outlets on this breaker and sure enough, the ground screw is simply unused.

What I did was I split the two circuits into their own romex cabling, replace the non-GFCI with a GFCI outlet and ran a new 50ft Romex cable to the Load side of the original outlet, but I simply taped off the ground cable. I have marked the outlets that it is on (No equipment ground) and if I ever do decide to update the wiring, I can simply splice the cable into my Romex that I installed. I also cut the second Hot wire from the original conduit to close that off.

How common is it to run two hots in the same conduit off 2 distint breakers? Am I going to find other surprises in my wiring. I haven't traced out all the other breakers but have been generally marking circuits as I find them.

I have only lived here for 1 year and just started some electrical work, looking at replacing the panel sometime in the future.

Jay

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