old fuse box as subpanel

15 years ago

Several years ago my father in law put in an old Cutler Hammer fuse box to use as a subpanel in my house. I did not know anything about electrical so I figured he knew what he was doing because he has wired alot of things. Anyway after reading several of these forums I think I may have a problem even thought nothing has happened all these years. In the main panel,he used 3- 6 gauge wires and wired the 2 hots directly into the screws at the top where the service comes into the panel and ran 1 to the ground. Into the sub he ran the 2 into the top screws and 1 for a ground at the top which feeds a 60 amp fuse which runs the subpanel. I currently have 4 circuits on the sub which have never given me any trouble. Do I need a 4th wire for a ground on both the main and subpanel or is what I have ok. Again, have not had any problems with this arrangement. Thanks

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Comments (7)

davidandkasie
15 years ago
you need more than just a ground wire. you need to remove the wires from teh service feed lugs, you need to install a breaker for the sub at the main, you need to have the neutral and ground busses separate in teh sub. your 3 #6 wires are 100% unprotected at the moment.

and you may as well go spend 40.00 and replace the fuse panel with a small breaker panel. if you catch one in teh clearance aisle at lowes/HD, you can get them for practically nothing with 4-5 breakers already in it.
pjb999
15 years ago
Question - are these smaller sub panels capable of delivering 240 as well as 120, or will I need to go to a larger panel when I set myself up? I want to put a subpanel in my garage/workshop to feed the shop with 120/240 plus a number of extra things I want to set up like some outside lighting, also I'd like a couple of 240 outlets in my family room adjacent to my shop to power some of the stuff I brought over from Australia.
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The last guy couldn't figure it out either, that's why there's a subpanel - he left the old service in place because he was confused to heck. Find the smallest-value fuses you can. Replace all of them with that. 12.5A isn't a normal common value anymore, so I'm going to bet that one is the oldest. You should probably try to find more 12.5's and use them in all of the spaces. The problem you're going to find with your incremental replacement is that all of those circuits are going to tie into each other in ways that make no sense to you. A 'hot' wire is going to go up in the wall in one room but the neutral to the same circuit is going to be going the opposite direction in a totally different room. You're going to run a new circuit to one room and when you're pretty sure you're done with all of the k&t wire that goes to the old circuit you're very sure you followed, you're going to unhook that wire and three things you thought were completely unrelated are going to stop working. Been there. Done that. I enjoy the challenge, because this is a bit of a hobby to me - and the history of it is as interesting to me as the work, but if you're a "normal" person with a real life... I feel for you.
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Hello, i just moved into an apartment with fuse panel. Our power contuousl was going out everytime we’d Plug something in. I replaced both cartridge fuses and both those screw in fuses. It still didnt work. Now when i wasnt here, the landlord came in, and when we got home our electric was magically on. Now i went to plug a lamp in to a power strip with only the internet plugged in. Nothing else in any outlet , and the power went off and about 20-30 mins later it turned on by itself. Now we haven’t used any outlets since that in fear of not having electricity. But today i needed to set my living room up. I need to set the Tv up so all i did was UNplug the internet box from the power strip, and now i dont have electricity all over again. Please help
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As others have pointed out, the best fix is a rewiring job. You should definitely report the situation to the landlord. If he/she does nothing, there are a few things you can try. In many older houses, people kept adding on to one circuit. This was particularly true in the case of knob & tube wiring. In many cases, the add-ons were for items of low power consumption items such as lamps, electric clocks, radios, etc., and posed little or no overload threat. Then along came microwaves, washing machines, countertop appliances, etc., which did pose an overload problem. To get to the point, you MIGHT have one or two circuits that are overloaded, and sone circuits that are not. Perhaps one of those screw-in fuses is for a single receptacle for a window air conditioner. Since you wouldn't be using an A/C at the same time, perhaps you could plug in the heater there. As pharkus wrote, immediately replace the top 4 screw-in fuses with 15A fuses. The circuits MAY be good for 20A, but the wiring size would have to be verified. It is highly likely there is NO WAY there should be 30A fuses in the top 4. Once you replace all the fuses, including the 60A mains, remove the 15A fuses, one at a time, and see which lights and receptacles are not working. Keep a record of what is on each fuse. Maybe then you can determine if there is an underutilized circuit on which to use the heater. At any rate, you are probably pushing the limits of this 60 amp service, especially with an electric water heater and another electric 240-volt appliance (if there is one. That is what the other cartridge fuse holder is for, possibly an electric range or dryer.) Monitor closely. If the landlord does not address the situation, and you get the burning smell again, call the fire department. Seriously.
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azlighting
15 years ago
Houses are wired for 120/240V - single phase. Installing a piece of equipment from Australia may not be a good idea if you don't know if it is compatible. You need to make sure the voltage and phase will work with your existing electrical system.
davidandkasie
15 years ago
yes smaller subs are fine for 120/240.

i agree about the australian stuff, double check to make sure it will work on american power before you hook it up.
pjb999
15 years ago
The few things I'd be using that aren't universal anyway are mostly marked 50/60 hz, when I moved from Canada to NZ then Australia back in the 70's we had some issues with a couple of electric motors, but most were fine. I realise there's technically no 'neutral' in NA 240, but I'm pretty sure it would be fine. My Dad brought a Sears 240v Radial arm saw from Canada back to NZ, he said when it was new the onboard breaker tripped a bit (maybe back in the 70s it was rated 220v?) but when it got a bit older it was fine.

As for phase, I'm not sure what you mean. It's all single phase, just like here in Canada.

My plan would be to either use a 240v plug like we have here, or I could add an Australian one (I kept a few outlets) which I suppose technically might not be kosher since it won't have the CSA rating but they are, nevertheless, rated 250v or higher.

It is an different system there, they generally don't use junction boxes there (unless they're surface mount, or there's an inline join) because, for one, outside walls didn't used to be insulated, also, instead of wire nuts, they use an insulated brass joiner with a grubscrew. I kind of liked that system, harder to mess up and perhaps a little more reliable, but slower to fit I suppose.
bus_driver
15 years ago
The existing subpanel might have met code at time of installation. It would have 50 years ago. Is it inherently unsafe? No. Does it meet today's code? No. If you want the latest and safest, rewire to today's code.
douglasm
Original Author
15 years ago
Whats your opinions on either installing a new subpanel correctly as stated above, or having a whole new service panel installed that will meet my needs and I won't need a sub. Given a price of $800-900 for a new 100 AMP panel with 30 circuits and new grounding rods. Never thought about asking the price for a new subpanel with 6 circuits. Any thought?

old fuse box as subpanel

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davidandkasie

pjb999

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old fuse box as subpanel

Comments (7)

davidandkasie

pjb999

Related Discussions

azlighting

davidandkasie

pjb999

bus_driver

douglasmOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

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douglasm
Original Author