Problems with Loewen Windows and Doors
plnj89
17 years ago
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lshiffri
3 years agoWindows on Washington Ltd
3 years agoRelated Discussions
loewen windows design flaw?
Comments (7)I also left this post over in the remodelling forum since it seemed to fit a thread over there as well as this one. I have been considering this post for a week or so and I wasnt sure if I ever wanted to actually post it. But now that I have seen posts from other folks who are concerned about purchasing Loewen because of seeing specific negative posts on this (and other) forums, I have decided to comment. As usual, it is probably too long. kavo United States  registered on November 18, 2006  birthday June 19. From kavo on November 18, 2006 at 1919 (in the Windows forum)  "A cautionary note...we are having a major problem with some of Loewen windows just installed on a new addition to our house. The service from Loewen has been terrible and their rep is unresponsive." From kavo on November 18, 2006 at 1922 (in the Windows forum)  "We are having a major problem with large french casement push out windows by Loewen. Just installed and do not operate properly -- the rep insists they are fine and is stonewalling us" Kavo has no additional posts on any THS forum pnwarchitect  United States  registered on November 19, 2006  birthday May 19 From pnwarchitect on November 19, 2006 at 2138 (in the Remodeling forum) "In particular I would stay away from the large casement windows. Loewen uses the same size framing on the larger windows as on the smaller ones, and it is inadequate to support a larger window properly. As a result the windows tend to warp when you close them, if you can close them at all. I had a project in which you had to go outside and press the top corner of two of the windows in to close them at all." From Adrian Justin on November 19, 2006 (not from a THS forum - but the link to this post is in a THS forum post)  "Âthe larger ones are defective. The primary reason for this is that Loewen does not increase the size of the frame in the larger windows, allowing them to warp signicantly when they are closed and therefore not lock correctly. Two of our windows actually require a person to stand outside and push on the window while another pulls to get it to seal correctly." From pnwarchitect on November 19, 2006 at 2303 (in the Windows forum)  "I'm not surprised. Loewen has been going downhill since it (over)expanded a few years ago. Sales have become more important than quality. I think that attitude will catch up with Loewen soon, I've heard many negative stories about Loewen from builders and other architects recently." From pnwarchitect on November 19, 2006 at 2310 (in the Windows forum)  "If you choose to go with wood, I would stay away from Loewen, their large windows are underdesigned and fragile." From pnwarchitect on November 19, 2006 at 2320 (in the Windows forum)  "Some manufacturers do not upsize the window frames for larger sizes and the windows do not function correctly due to warpage without constant adjustment. Loewen windows are notorious for this problem. Whatever you get, make sure that the larger windows have upsized frames." From pnwarchitect on November 19, 2006 at 2326 (in the Windows forum)  "Unfortunately for you, Loewen casements are a problem in larger sizes (small ones are ok). Also, Loewen windows are generally fragile, the douglas fir is a veneer and can come apart easily" pnwarchitect has no additional posts on any THS forum magnum pio  Canada  registered on December 5, 2006  birthday January 6 From magnum pio on December 5, 2006 at 2004 (in the Windows forum)  "I wouldn't waste any time with Loewen (speaking from experience!)" From magnum pio on December 26, 2006 at 2008 (in the Windows forum)  "I'd love to E-mail you some pictures of my Loewen windows (triple glazed units!) with frost/ice build-up on the inside of the glass! Do waste your money on Loewen!" magnum pio has no additional posts on any THS forum My point to all this? In the intelligence biz (my previous occupation before entering the glass and window industry) one looks for consistency and patterns when gathering data. People tend to be creatures of habit  they tend to be consistent in how they do certain activities. Note, for example, that the number/date of registration and the number/date of birthday is the same (once) and one number lower (twice) for these three folks and that for two of the "individuals" the date of registration was also the date of their only posts to THS. Note the similarity of pnwarchitect post and the Adrian Justin post on another website forum  and on the same dayÂnote the timeframe of posts from all three individuals. From all three "individuals"  the essence of their posts is to slam Loewen  nothing else. In addition, pnwarchitect made a number of factual errors and misstatements that have been addressed by others following his posts in the specific threads. Also note that in all three cases the "I live in" was the country US, US, CAN. Again, many people also list their country of origin  many donÂt. Again, there is nothing about any of these comments that cannot be applied to many others who have posted on THS and elsewhere  but within the framework of this particular discussion there are a good many consistencies that seem to add up. I will offer no conclusions since this is simply idle conjecture, but I would suggest some interesting possibilities. Again, while I have debated with myself whether to actually post this thing  and I really donÂt care one way or the other if folks decide on Loewen as their window company  it does bother me when I see other folks becoming hesitant about their potential window purchase based on information in posts that one might consider to be not quite as straightforward as it might be. And as a disclaimer, I certainly donÂt spend my days "analyzing" what other folks post - I really enjoy reading what other people write - but, I was once trained to recognize patterns and I have spent a good part of my life identifying and analyzing consistencies  and in this case the numerous consistencies pointed out a very distinct pattern that I could not help but notice  I suspect that others may have noticed these as wellÂ....See MoreLoewen vs. Kolbe vs. Marvin
Comments (26)From an 2010 thread on warranty here is some excellent input from @xoldtimecarpenter and jives with the biz law course that I audited years ago on contract law. If there is forum member with legal background it'd be nice to get their opinion on this. After my prior post I read about "stress cracks" caused by thermal differences and realize these can happen fairly easily especially on larger windows and so a warranty that is skimpy here as Kolbe seems to be is not positive. His/her post also made me laugh: "Window warranties aggravate me about as much as faucet warranties, which are only slightly less annoying than setting my hair on fire with kerosene and putting it out with a brick. I don't know of a single window manufacturer that really stands behind its product. Almost all claim to have life-time warranties, but if you read the warranty, they actually promise very little. At most they will, eventually, send you a replacement part, but actually getting the window fixed is up to you. Not to be impolite, but this is crap. The window fogged up because it was not manufactured properly. There is no other explanation for fogging of an unbroken window. The homeowner did nothing to cause the problem. It is entirely on the manufacturer, who, if he was actually standing behind his product would also pay for the labor to install the window. I am not at all impressed with the fact that a window company makes a video showing the homeowner how to install replacement glass. Why should the homeowner have to install it? He didn't cause the problem. If we install windows for a customer, and they have manufacturing problems, we take care of the problem. We deal with the manufacturer, we install the replacement parts. And we keep track of our time and costs and bill the manufacture for them. If they have not paid in 90 days, we sue. Most people are not ware that the manufacturer's written warranty is not the only warranty a homeowner has. By law the manufacturer warrants the windows to be merchantable, workmanlike, and fit for the purpose for which intended. If the manufacturer violates these warranties by, for example, providing a dual-glazed window with seals that leak so the window fogs up (not merchantable, not workmanlike), he has to pay for the parts AND the labor to install the parts. That is the law, and has been the law for over 100 years. Manufacturers' warranties are not written for the purpose of protecting the customer, they are written to avoid, as much as possible, their duties under these common law warranties. The effort is only effective if the customer lets the manufacturer get away with it. We never do, and we never lose. My suggestion for homeowner is not to deal with warranty issues themselves. Get the company who installed the windows to deal with it. You may have to pay them to take care of manufacturing problems (but not installation problems -- that's on them). That way you avoid the finger-pointing that is common in window warranty claims. The manufacture says its an installation problem, the installer says its a manufacturing problem and no one does anything. Take pictures, get invoices, keep close track of your costs. Add them up and bill the manufacture. The company will probably deny their liability since labor is not covered by their written warranty. Don't spend any time trying to explain your rights under common law warranty -- just sue in small claims court. The judge will provide all the explanations necessary. At $15-45 to file a small claim, it is one of the best judicial bargains around. Keep in mind also that most window companies are members of the Better Business Bureau and as members have to submit to binding arbitration if your ask for it. Ask for it. Let the BBB collect for you. Stop taking crap from manufacturers over warranty issues. Regards,"...See MoreMarvin Infinity vs. Loewen--patio/sliding French door
Comments (8)sandyponder, thanks for the details. That is a good deal, to be *sure*! I went to the local Sierra Pacific rep on Wednesday; he took all the specs and told me he'd e-mail me with a quote for pretty much what you got except brown on the outside. He has never written me back. Maybe time to call him. Where do you find auctions that have those kinds of things??? Do you go to them often? People find the most amazing things at auctions. I can tell you that reclaimed probably old-growth DF flooring goes for *quite reasonable* prices out here...no more than any other wood, and less than some...we're in the PNW, though. Now that you've told me the price, I'm going to bug the SP guy...maybe he thought I wasn't serious or was just blowing me since we're just buying one door? I don't know...but that's at least $1K less than other similar doors. Hard to resist. If I can just get him to offer it to me LOL...See MoreChoices, choices: Loewen, Marvin, Screens and Cladding
Comments (2)Looks like you and your GC have a couple of items to work out. While the aluminum clad window is in no way shape or form a bullet proof material, it is considerable more shielded and less prone to deteriorate as compared to bare wood. Wood windows require considerably more maintenance and upkeep. No comparison. A properly clad window will live much longer is only maintained slightly. If you need wood to the interior, have you considered a fiberglass window? Same construction look to the exterior, available with wood on the inside, and usually a bit cheaper. I would stay with the factory version of the roll away screen and I think your reasoning on the push out casements is completely correct....See Moremillworkman
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