Hi rabbit12,

Your post got me interested because a friend just bought a house with Loewen windows. When we visited his place, the windows look quite nice. We installed Aluminum-clad stained Marvins 3 years ago so the beautiful Loewen stained wood caught our eyes. He does not have any large Casement, only standard smallish windows. They operate fine.

My suggestion would be to actually specify a "large" window and then go to a Loewen shop to ask for frame specifications. Then go to a close competitor like Marvin and ask for same. Then you can compare the two to see if Loewen has addressed the frame problem. If you are lucky and able to actually see a large Loewen in display, you can even measure the unit :-). This way, you get first-hand information rather than relying on second-hand info.

If you like wood and unsure about Loewen, a good alternative is Marvin. Another brand to check out is Andersen.

Pnwarchitects comments seem like there is something else going on. I have seen his comments before, several times, seems like he has it out for Loewen. He must have had some type of problem that the local dealer did not fix to his satisfaction. Or there is some dispute that has not been solved. You can easily get cross section details of the casements (and other products) from Loewen and Marvin and compare their actual thickness. Ask for the tech guide from both dealers. I know Loewen will go to a butt hinge system (like a door hinge) for an oversized casement, which will support the sash in several different locations, where as in standard size casements, the same Truth (brand name) casement hinges are used, just like Marvin. Loewen does use two different size Truth hinge systems, depending on the size. Sagging sash almost always has to do with install...needs to be adjusted, has to be dead on square and plumb...cann't have Johnny, hung over from the night before, framer installing your windows. The one thing with Loewen is that they are beautifull and great quality, but you cann't have a yahoo installing them weather it be new construction or remodel. What type of windows are you going for? Let me know if you have specific product questions...

I also left this post over in the remodelling forum since it seemed to fit a thread over there as well as this one.

I have been considering this post for a week or so and I wasnt sure if I ever wanted to actually post it. But now that I have seen posts from other folks who are concerned about purchasing Loewen because of seeing specific negative posts on this (and other) forums, I have decided to comment. As usual, it is probably too long.

kavo United States  registered on November 18, 2006  birthday June 19.

From kavo on November 18, 2006 at 1919 (in the Windows forum) Â

"A cautionary note...we are having a major problem with some of Loewen windows just installed on a new addition to our house. The service from Loewen has been terrible and their rep is unresponsive."

From kavo on November 18, 2006 at 1922 (in the Windows forum) Â

"We are having a major problem with large french casement push out windows by Loewen. Just installed and do not operate properly -- the rep insists they are fine and is stonewalling us"

Kavo has no additional posts on any THS forum

pnwarchitect  United States  registered on November 19, 2006  birthday May 19

From pnwarchitect on November 19, 2006 at 2138 (in the Remodeling forum)Â

"In particular I would stay away from the large casement windows. Loewen uses the same size framing on the larger windows as on the smaller ones, and it is inadequate to support a larger window properly. As a result the windows tend to warp when you close them, if you can close them at all. I had a project in which you had to go outside and press the top corner of two of the windows in to close them at all."

From Adrian Justin on November 19, 2006 (not from a THS forum - but the link to this post is in a THS forum post) Â
"Âthe larger ones are defective. The primary reason for this is that Loewen does not increase the size of the frame in the larger windows, allowing them to warp signicantly when they are closed and therefore not lock correctly. Two of our windows actually require a person to stand outside and push on the window while another pulls to get it to seal correctly."

From pnwarchitect on November 19, 2006 at 2303 (in the Windows forum) Â

"I'm not surprised. Loewen has been going downhill since it (over)expanded a few years ago. Sales have become more important than quality. I think that attitude will catch up with Loewen soon, I've heard many negative stories about Loewen from builders and other architects recently."

From pnwarchitect on November 19, 2006 at 2310 (in the Windows forum) Â

"If you choose to go with wood, I would stay away from Loewen, their large windows are underdesigned and fragile."

From pnwarchitect on November 19, 2006 at 2320 (in the Windows forum) Â

"Some manufacturers do not upsize the window frames for larger sizes and the windows do not function correctly due to warpage without constant adjustment. Loewen windows are notorious for this problem. Whatever you get, make sure that the larger windows have upsized frames."

From pnwarchitect on November 19, 2006 at 2326 (in the Windows forum) Â

"Unfortunately for you, Loewen casements are a problem in larger sizes (small ones are ok). Also, Loewen windows are generally fragile, the douglas fir is a veneer and can come apart easily"

pnwarchitect has no additional posts on any THS forum

magnum pio  Canada  registered on December 5, 2006  birthday January 6

From magnum pio on December 5, 2006 at 2004 (in the Windows forum) Â

"I wouldn't waste any time with Loewen (speaking from experience!)"

From magnum pio on December 26, 2006 at 2008 (in the Windows forum) Â

"I'd love to E-mail you some pictures of my Loewen windows (triple glazed units!) with frost/ice build-up on the inside of the glass!
Do waste your money on Loewen!"

magnum pio has no additional posts on any THS forum

My point to all this?

In the intelligence biz (my previous occupation before entering the glass and window industry) one looks for consistency and patterns when gathering data. People tend to be creatures of habit  they tend to be consistent in how they do certain activities.

Note, for example, that the number/date of registration and the number/date of birthday is the same (once) and one number lower (twice) for these three folks and that for two of the "individuals" the date of registration was also the date of their only posts to THS.

Note the similarity of pnwarchitect post and the Adrian Justin post on another website forum  and on the same dayÂnote the timeframe of posts from all three individuals.

From all three "individuals"  the essence of their posts is to slam Loewen  nothing else. In addition, pnwarchitect made a number of factual errors and misstatements that have been addressed by others following his posts in the specific threads.

Also note that in all three cases the "I live in" was the country US, US, CAN. Again, many people also list their country of origin  many donÂt.

Again, there is nothing about any of these comments that cannot be applied to many others who have posted on THS and elsewhere  but within the framework of this particular discussion there are a good many consistencies that seem to add up.

I will offer no conclusions since this is simply idle conjecture, but I would suggest some interesting possibilities.

Again, while I have debated with myself whether to actually post this thing  and I really donÂt care one way or the other if folks decide on Loewen as their window company  it does bother me when I see other folks becoming hesitant about their potential window purchase based on information in posts that one might consider to be not quite as straightforward as it might be.

And as a disclaimer, I certainly donÂt spend my days "analyzing" what other folks post - I really enjoy reading what other people write - but, I was once trained to recognize patterns and I have spent a good part of my life identifying and analyzing consistencies  and in this case the numerous consistencies pointed out a very distinct pattern that I could not help but notice  I suspect that others may have noticed these as wellÂ.

I just visited my friend over the weekend and I must still say that his Loewen sure looks nice. I even mentioned this thread to him and we went around operating his windows all over :) and there were no problems. He was guessing that the windows may have been installed five years ago, he is not sure. I also looked at the frames and they looked no smaller or worse than that of our Marvin's at home. Again, it has beatiful grain and stained a beautiful golden oak by the previous owner.

I did ask him if I can take pictures and post and he said no, for privacy reasons. If we had known of Loewen before we bought our Marvin three years ago, we would have given Loewen a gooooood looooong look.

Hi Rabbit12,
Here are some helpful suggestions from my own personel experiences:
1.Ask for references from your window distributor for past customers. Ask for local addresses, call each reference and ask to could come by to see the windows in person. (Happy customer would be proud to indorse their purchases. If your local distributor says he doesn't have any local customers ask why. Ask what his turn around time to returning your calls (24 hours or a week..a week can easily turning a couple weeks)
2.Ask about their technical support. Who is their technical support person, what are their qualifications and where are they located? (And yes, Does the technical person even know how to install a window? Is he located in town or miles away - this can cause delays in getting service in a reasonable timeframe)
3.What is their turn around for support? Is it within a couple weeks or a couple months? Get this in writing. Some window companies offer up to a year of technical support.
4.Do they offer support in installing their windows with your contactor? Or recommend an experienced window contractor. Ask for a list of recommended contractors. If there isn't a list, ask why.
5.Before writing the deposit check which is 50% of the contract, ask your distributor to put the delivery date on the contract..if he says he'll call you with info..insist on waiting until he has it printed on your contract. If you have any custom windows which can mean added lead times, get this delivery date in writing too. You could be waiting a couple of more months than expected...because this date can keep changing.
6. Please note that if you do experience a problem with your windows, window companies will blame the problem on the installation and the contractor will blame the problem as a factory defect.
7. Also, its a good idea once your receive your windows that you first inspect the load list to insure that all your window did arrive. (the distributor will expect the remaining balance upon delivery and this is your only recourse if there is a screw up) Inspect each window with your contractor to insure that they arrive intact. Insist that the window distributor be available upon the delivery and inspection or you simply will not pay the balance. This is called CUSTOMER SERVICE and his responsiblity.

What I have learned from my experience, good customer service/technical support and a good product go hand in hand.

By the way, I tried to follow the above suggestions but the times I trusted the word of my distributor rather than getting it in writing...were the very things that caused the most problems. I am disappointed.

Good Luck to you!

A late post here for the record.

I have large Marvin double hung windows and large Loewen Access windows in my New York townhouse. It may well have been the installation, but the Marvins have caused some trouble. The Loewen's get raves from visitors, including architects, devlopers and contractors. I am gradually replacing the Marvins with more Lowen's.

I live next to a major transportation artery. Tranquility glazing has worked extremely well for isolating us from the sound.

I was going to order some windows in mahogany this time, and my contractor told me to save the upcharge. He can stain the douglas fir to any color I want.

I am doing a super high end renovation. If I could find any windows better than Loewen, I would buy them. I am even buying Lowen's with no glass to have another shop put eglass in. Marvin's or Andersen's would save me a lot of money in this, but I just trust Loewen quality.

Frank

Hi Frank,

Just idle curiousity, and if you don't mind my asking, but what troubles are you seeing with the Marvin's and why are you having someone other than Loewen install the glass package?

I am actually very surprised that Loewen would agree to that.

Thanks