Hi Norcal -

Just my two cents, but I think the lack of discussion is because many of us are somewhat older and not fully comfortable with the culture of social networking sites. At least, I know I'm not. I've seen them - seen my teen son's certainly, and when he's left his site up on my computer, taken a look at the sites of his friends to see what they're up to (normal teenage stuff) --

But I certainly couldn't comment as to how 'insulting' it is to remove someone from your list of friends, or to limit their access to your page in some way -- Just no idea. I DO think it's generally wise to not hand weapons and ammunition to someone who has shown she might use it against you. Be cordial, polite, friendly even -- but don't hand her weapons.

Ashley - Don't totally discount the possibility that your BF may have hit his Ex, and that her comment may actually have some truth to it. I wouldn't take it as gospel certainly, but if he has anger issues, I'd keep my eyes open.

NORCALGIRL

This thread hasn't seemed to start much debate on this topic - perhaps I'm the only one dumb enough to get myself in this situation.

This really made me laugh because you are not alone in being dumb. As I said in my earlier response to this, I had a lot of thoughts on this subject but I don't have myspace nor Face Book accounts. So I didn't have the pleasure of receiving digs via the internet nor having things on display for all of her friends - at least I hope not! I just didn't elaborate because I thought that I would be deviating from you and your situation, and ending up talking about myself. If you were like me, you had benevolent intentions. I just think in most of these cases, especially with two women, it doesn't work.

When I met my BF, he and Ex had been apart for several years and she was pregnant by her off-again on-again BF. She also turned an inch into a mile. She got away with it too because if she didn't get her way, she usually took it out on everyone around her, especially their kids.

Since you asked, here are a few tidbits:

1-She bought some large items at Home Depot knowing that she has a compact car. She pays and then calls us from the parking lot because "she realized nothing would fit" and could we help her! She thought that we would be using her DH's SUV, but it was in the shop, so we used my truck. We arrived in the parking lot to find her with Mr On & Off, and a scowl on her face because we took to long. She never said thanks. I told BF - never again.

2-Fast forward one year later and she pulls the same stunt, but with a carpet. Only this time she called him and asked him to use my vehicle. He said yes! He left his cell phone with me by mistake and took mine. She called, I answered it and she demanded to know where he was. I said there must be traffic. She muttered that he'd better be there soon and hung up. I really called him on the carpet for that one (no pun intended).

3-Then there was a family function for one of their kids. I am cooking for her family, she brought chips and onion dip mix (big contribution!) over and I offered her an apron and she tells me in a snide manner "that's just too domestic for me", while I am wearing an apron. I thought to myself, "oh yea, that's right the only domestic thing you know how do is procreate". The 3 kids mentioned are not her only ones.

4-Then there's last summer: Her elderly parents who normally watch the kid of Mr. On & Off Again want to take a month long vacation. She called BF's mom and asked her to watch the kid for the month(no pay). She was furious when former MIL said "no", and then called us. She ended up getting the youngest DD to babysit. We ended up with the kid at our house everyday. This was another sore spot, but it only gets better. One day when she came to p/u the kid, she's complaining about how's she may lose her job. Jokingly, I said that I know of a handyman job on an estate that has a starting salary of $70k plus benefits. She wanted me to refer Mr. On & Off for the job. He's a loser with many other kids, never pays child support, has be in jail and I wasn't going to refer him, but to be "nice" I said I would pass on his resume even though I wouldn't. She sent over resume, called several times and grilled me about the job. I told her I forwarded the info and that it was out of my hands. She continued to call and eventually got angry with me because he didn't get the job.

5-She called a few months ago because Mr Off & On hurt his back. I am a PT and she wanted me to help him. I told her I only had one opening, I couldn't offer her a discount and that our facility is expensive. Could I refer her to someone else? She said, "no" that neither of them had the money to pay!!

Additionally, when she found out that I moved in w/BF, she suddenly bought new furniture and fixed up her place and told the kids that "they need to be more of a family". I bought a new car last year and a few months later she buys a car. I do something, she does the same thing.

I just previewed this message and I can't believe I am actually involved with another person to this degree. Again, if she was a co-worker of mine, I would do no more than say hello to this woman. I have made it clear to BF that I will do no more than be cordial with her and because their kids are now adults, she has no business calling us unless. So, I feel because of the fore mention reasons, that once you're divorced, you're divorced. Keep the lines clean. Sorry so lengthy.

"I wasn't going to refer him, but to be "nice" I said I would pass on his resume even though I wouldn't."

You didn't lie to be "nice" but to make it easier on yourself. There is no excuse for promising to do something you have no intention of doing.

As an aside - the last person I recall seeing in an apron was June Cleaver. I had no idea they even sold them anymore. I'd be shocked too if someone handed me one.

Hopefully your shock of being offered an apron to keep your nice clothes clean wouldn't leave you so blind that you would deliberately insult the person wearing one (right in front of you). And your right, I should have been honest with her because I really wanted to tell her that I didn't want to refer a thief to my friend because I didn't want to be guilty by association.

Gerina, Unless the stuff at home depot was something she needed for his kids, he should have said, sorry.. we're busy. Home Depot rents trucks and if not, there's always U haul.

When I was first with DH, his ex was always asking for favors that had nothing to do with their daughter and the more he did, the more she wanted. Eventually, I found out she just wants to push my buttons to see how far she can go before I say something. I don't own him so I don't say anything one way or the other (unless it affects me) but if I could go back, I'd probably suggest that it be nipped in the bud. When he was single, he did things for her and I didn't want to be the reason he stopped, but even he said that after we got together, she became much more demanding and I would be appalled if the ex, who is asking for a favor, called up to complain that it was taking too long or anything else. Wow, I'm shocked at what some have to put up with... it's hard to feel bad about SD's mom being a pain in the ass when I hear of worse BM's.

Oh yeah, my DH's mom gave SD an apron for her birthday... so she can help me in the kitchen. And my dad has three aprons hanging in his kitchen. (and he's NO June Cleaver!)

Never thought I'd be sitting at my computer laughing about APRONS, of all things. Wow, aren't tangents fun?

I would pick something up at Home Depot for my exH if it didn't fit in his vehicle. Although it is rude to call and complain that they aren't getting there fast enough, I see no reason why you shouldn't be willing to do favors for your ex-spouse. I do favors for my neighbors and my co-workers, and vice versa.

Although I don't think it matters whether the favor benefits the children, how could bringing something like a carpet from Home Depot not benefit them? - they get to enjoy the benefits of a new carpet, too. It is not like she asked him to bring a keg of beer to her house.

"When he was single, he did things for her and I didn't want to be the reason he stopped"

From what I have seen among acquaintances, the new wife (but rarely the new husband) is precisely why the doing of favors stops. I have divorced acquaintances who have lent their ex money to go to school, helped them find appropriate medical care, cleaned their apartment while they were hospitalized (not cleaned OUT their apartment), gone to the drugstore to get them a prescription, even helped them pick out glasses - but in none of these cases was there a new wife.

I collect aprons:)........Call me cynical, but Nothing good can come of trying to befriend EXS!!!!!Unless my DH is rushing an organ donation to his kids, there is no good reason I can think of to do favors for ex..How sweet, to clean their apartments and loan them money and get them their meds OMG!!!!Why did these caring, considerate people ever get a divorce if they care so much about each other??? I suspect any Ex thats asks for a favor to benefit her or the kids is trying to slam wife number two, see he does still care about US,Did BM think after the divorce DH was going to be around waiting in the wings to bail them out of any little situation they got them selves into???? One point of divorce is you no longer have a husband....Find someone else to do your favors....

Well, since BF can't afford a car after his divorce this is not an issue. But the day that BM tells me how to decorate *our* bathroom will be a very cold day in hell, indeed.

Norcal, stay FFFFAAARRR FAAAR away...Get your decorating tips from a magazine LOL

"I would pick something up at Home Depot for my exH if it didn't fit in his vehicle."

I can honestly believe this.. theotherside would bring a truck to help her ex. But, it's only speculation, but if SHE were at Home Depot and called HIM, she'd be renting a truck!!!

"How sweet, to clean their apartments and loan them money and get them their meds OMG!!!!Why did these caring, considerate people ever get a divorce if they care so much about each other??? I suspect any Ex thats asks for a favor to benefit her or the kids is trying to slam wife number two, see he does still care about US,"

Dotz, you hit the nail on the head.... My dad divorced mom 25 years ago. Well, 15-20 years later he has done her favors. He used his credit to buy her a truck. He's loaned her money (she currently owes him 3k) and he allows her to come to family gatherings if she behaves herself. She, after 25 years of divorce, still thinks that his acts of kindness are an indication that he still CARES for her. Well, he does care because she's the mother of his children, but he doesn't 'care' because he wants her back. Yet, she still asks her damn near middle age children, 'do you think he'd take me back?' HE IS STILL MARRIED TO HIS WIFE.... That doesn't phase my mom, she just makes comments of how come she hasn't died yet?

And regarding spouses asking each other for favors... I don't think ex husband's ask for favors as much from the ex wife. It's usually the ex wife that asks the ex husband. It's probably a guy thing, like not asking for directions. (except TOS's husband, which I'm sure she will say he'd ask for directions) But, I think guys are more likely willing to help out an ex if they are on good terms (meaning the ex wife is not a b*tch to him) or if he feels obligated because he has kids with her... I doubt it's because he still has feelings, though some may. But, when he gets a new GF or wife, he is now focused on HER needs and is less likely to want to spend his time doing things for his ex that she can do for herself. (especially if she is with someone new, as in OP's case... the ex had a man to 'take care of her'. If he didn't feel like a loser with his GF calling her ex to bail her out, he should have) Just because there is a new GF or wife, does not mean that the new GF/wife is not allowing him to do favors. It may be for some, but in my case, my husband wanted to get home to be with me. (and his ex was becoming more and more demanding and who wants to do anything for someone that is talking mean or yelling at you?)

Ima, I ve got no problem with SK asking for a favor, they re old enough to do so, I just find BM asking for ANYTHING unacceptable..Hmm you got me thinking, wonder if she asks SKs if Dad would take me back....As to Home Depot run...OK you left me and the kids, SURE I ll go pick up some plywood for you!!!!!! Can you say DOORMAT.......

"I'd be shocked too if someone handed me one. "

Every time I picture TOS I picture her wearing a monocle...

Just a side note :)

Sieryn, I picture Kathy Bates (Of Misery Movie) and LILITH BBBBBBRRRRRR

I CAN SEE IT!!

Once a man remarries, is he less willing to to do favors for his neighbors, his parents, his cousins, or his co-workers, because "when he gets a new GF or wife, he is now focused on HER needs and is less likely to want to spend his time doing things" for other people? Or is it just his ex-wife that he is less willing to do favors for?

My sweet Hubby has done so many favors for the neighbors. They're elderly / he's handy -- it's just the right thing to do. His son? His brother? His mother? Aunts? Sisters? My mother? - Sure! That's what nice people do. But his Ex? Nada. (And not my idea.)

I asked my Ex for help once -- DS had locked himself in the second floor bathroom with the window open, and it wasn't one of those doors you could open from the outside. I simply wasn't strong enough to carry the heavy metal ladder, and since it was for a crying two-year-old...

He asked me for help once, and I told him to shove it up his you-know-where! OK - He called at 2:00 a.m. whining about a fever and asked how to take his temperature. I just couldn't resist an opening like that one... ;-)

ROFL . . . don't have words . . .

"Sure! That's what nice people do. But his Ex? Nada."

Why? Why is it not the right thing to do when it is your ex?

Oh Lord Forgive me for my cruelty........BUT TOS ARE YOU CLINICALLY INSANE!!!!!!!SURELY. at some point you know in your own heart, you need to seperate.....You cant even get close enough to your X to do nice things for your X, but you re willing, if he wants you to, which apparently he doesnt........ Sincerely, I dont want to be mean, but OMG I beg you, reevaluate your life

Personally, if I wanted to do favors for my ex, he would probably not be my ex. There were two times that I've ever asked my ex for help. The first time, I had a reaction to something and I think one of my kids called him and he came over with his inhaler. The other time was about a year later when my computer stopped working. He is a computer geek and I asked if I could drop it off so he can take a look at it. He had just gotten married and told me 'sorry, take it to a shop.'. I didn't think anything of it. I got it fixed somewhere else and spent the $200 that it would have saved me to have him fix it. So, yeah I might have been peeved at spending the money, but if I didn't know him, I'd have had to take it to a shop anyways to deal with it. He doesn't OWE it to me to help me. There's nothing wrong with doing favors if you want, but it shouldn't be expected.

"Sieryn, I picture Kathy Bates (Of Misery Movie) and LILITH BBBBBBRRRRRR"

I picture the sour assistant secretary from the department I did my undergrad in. She could disagree with ANYTHING.

I have BM's email address because FDH asked me to send her some photos... I have seen her Facebook page, and I don't know if she has seen mine or not.
I doubt either of us would have any reason to be "friends" on FB, so I doubt we would ever be...
But we get along well enough now that I wouldn't be opposed to it, but nor would I be thrilled about it.

I wear an apron anytime I cook (and I'm twenty-six for crying out loud!)
I think they're a sensible way to cook with ease while protecting your clothes.
I have several aprons (two "everyday" aprons and a "company" apron or two) and I love them. I even get compliments on how smart I am for wearing an apron to cook.
But half the time I forget I'm wearing it and eat with it on... I have even left the house to meet up with friends and still had it on - LOL!

I wrote:
"Sure! That's what nice people do. But his Ex? Nada."

TOS responded:
Why? Why is it not the right thing to do when it is your ex?

Me again:
Well, TOS, when she left him, she ran up $25,000 in credit card debt the weekend before. Bought everything she anticipated the kids would need for the next three years. Bought new tires for her parent's car, bought new electronics, even some new furniture. DH was already working two jobs as it was to keep their heads above water. Within two months, she moved BF#1 into their house. DH was NOT HAPPY about any of it, and I suspect he had some words for her. In the divorce, she kept the house, the new car and the kids -- he got the debt.

Let's just say she had enough sense not to ask him for any favors.

TOS, This is why I was so mean to you last night...Topic BOILS my blood Sweeby has a reason not to do favors, here are a few of mine.....Divorced my DH because he wouldnt BEAT UP a neighbor she was in a squabble with...Just looked up court docket TWENTY SIX of them since he met me...Before me ZERO...DH paying CS , never having missed a payment , Called his boss for garnishment to embarrass him and make him look like a deadbeat...Tried to get CS into YEAR 5 by trying to talk son into dragging a 4 year degree into 5, so she could collect an extra year of CS(he was 23 when it finally stopped..Doesnt allow SS s to wear any clothing I buy them...Sent some back after 3 years(not returnable now, told SS to tell me he didnt like them...Calls SS 3 times here in a 4 hour period(to get in my house??)Tried and succeeded in to getting one SS to hate me(taking all dads money, how does she know?)Tries to get our income tax info(thinks we have more than we do, IF we do, she wants it)Butts into in law business(had NO relationship with them til I came along)Forcing SS to get into college that his school conselor said is the totally wrong school, he doesnt go to this school, no CS for her)Bringing a jobless homeless man into the house with monor children.....Will not work herself..Blames Dad for all they dont have...Asks kid to see if dads working OT, or if we have anything new, and how much it cost...Is that enough? I couldnt go on, but I m sure everyone is bored by now......

dotz, I've seen so many cases like your husbands. I actually got to see firsthand, the case of a woman I served. The older child is in his 20's and he's been paying spousal support for about 10 years and the youngest child is 17. He was trying to get his spousal support stopped as well as the child support for the older child. It just happened that they were in the same court hearing that DH had for his CS hearing with BM and their case was before DH's. This ex husband has been paying spousal support and the ex wife has 're-trained' THREE times and is now just enrolled in a new training course to be a nurse. When I was trying to serve her, she was living one week in her home (when the kids were there) and the other week at her boyfriend's house. She doesn't work of course, because she has children and she's always in training. Her Boyfriend is a former District Attorney (elected DA, not a deputy DA) and lives in a very upscale gated property. She drives a BMW convertible (very nice car). She managed to get the court to reset her hearing for three months out so, guess ex husband will have to pay spousal support those three months. She hasn't worked since they divorced so this poor guy has been fully supporting her for well over 10 years and she's going to suck every penny out of him that she can. Sooooo many of those cases!!!! I can't imagine any of those ex's wanting to do ANYTHING extra for their ex.

I would question whether there really are "so many of those cases." I don't know of any, personally. As a SAHM with six kids, including a disabled toddler, I still "won" half the debt and only half the house, and my exH got the new(er) vehicle and all the stock options. And I got no spousal support and no more child support than I would have received for three kids.

In the vast majority of cases where the exH leaves his family for a younger/richer model, there should be absolutely no reason for him not to do favors for his exWife, because that is what "nice" people (or even people who are jerks but not completely evil) do.

BTW, students who attend private colleges take, on average, 5.3 years to finish. Students at public colleges take even longer.

http://www.elearners.com/guide-to-online-education/online-education-providers.asp

If this makes any difference TOS, Ex got the whole house, not half...Altho I may look like a model, or newer model, I m actually OLDER than EX...But we are not talking about $$$$....No one wants to do favors because this woman is dogging us (me)..We have minded our own business, followed the letter of the law, and still its not enough...Why do we have to suffer, or be punished, harrassed....She did not want my DH , apparently, until someone else did...

Well TOS, you can question whether there really are that many cases but I work in a fairly small community and I get many jobs where ex husbands are trying to get spousal support stopped after many years. Many of these are not long term marriages. I'd completely understand that, but when the support last longer than the marriage, then I don't think that's right. Just like my husband's ex that has been getting support for almost 12 years and she was only married to her husband one year when that amount was ordered. (but that's a whole new topic) I also get jobs to serve the ex husband when the ex wife is trying to increase the support for various reasons. Most of the time, it's not really what I would think is a good reason. The court may think otherwise, but going back to school is not always a good idea... especially when you already have a decent career. Imagine what would happen if the payor father wanted to have his support reduced so he can quit his job and go back to school... the court would likely tell him that he can't, he has kids to support. The court should tell the ex wife the same thing...

and the ex husband that I was referring to in my last post, his ex wife had gone through training to be a flight attendant.. then decided she didn't want to work the hours of a flight attendant because it meant not being home with her kids for days at a time. (shouldn't she have thought about that BEFORE he paid to have her trained in that?) Then she went through a real estate course to be an agent and finished the course, decided she didn't want to do that. Now, she is in nursing school. She obviously has employable skills and should be working, at least part time. Of course, she told the court that she needs to focus ALL her time on school and her kids. Meanwhile, ex husband is paying for her house, car, and everything else. If he's her only means of income, he's paying for EVERYTHING. (Not to mention he surely has his own living expenses, including rent/mortgage, etc.) I find that unfair and I have seen many cases. How can you argue just because you have never seen it personally? I have.

And it sucks if your ex husband stuck you with half the debt, took the newer vehicle (he should have thought of his kids and their need for a more reliable car) and doesn't provide sufficient support. When you tell everyone these,IMO, horrible things he's done, then you say you'd gladly do him favors and say "I would pick something up at Home Depot for my exH if it didn't fit in his vehicle."... well, you certainly lose a lot of credibility and the things you say are not taken very seriously, no matter what website you quote to back it up.

1) He took exactly what the court awarded him, and what is typical in my state. Yes, he should have offered to take all the debt and given me the house, and/or offered spousal support, but I think it is a little unrealistic to expect him to do that when the court is telling him that much less is fine.

2) I do not believe that I lose credibility because I am willing to be nice to my exH. If I were not willing to do him any favors because he got too much in the divorce, that would be vindictive.

No, it's not unrealistic to expect him to do more than the court is telling him to. My dad paid my mom spousal support that wasn't court ordered. He made sure our rent was paid every month until I moved out. He made sure she had a good running car and anytime I needed anything, all I had to do was call him and he'd take care of it. So, in my opinion, a loving father would offer more if it benefits their children.

and no, I don't think it's vindictive to refuse to do favors for someone that has done things that, not only made YOUR life harder, but has made your children's life harder. Doing favors for someone should be give and take and when one side is always taking but never giving, that isn't fair.

anytime I needed anything, all I had to do was call him and he'd take care of it.

Then how come you had to work while your children were babies/toddlers, instead of attending college full-time so you could quickly make a better life for all of you?

If your father paid non-required spousal support, I think that was quite unusual. I have yet to meet anyone IRL whose ex-spouse paid their rent or mortgage if it was not required.

This is not about fairness. Doing favors is not about give and take, except in the sense of Clay Walker's song, "Chain of Love."

Oh look, it's gone off topic ... wahoo.

I wouldn't be BM's friend on FB, and I'm sure she wouldn't want to be mine. Having said that, she has on-and-off tried to play the 'lets be friends' game but my clothes started getting ruined from all the times she stabbed me in the back so I had to put a nice but firm stop to that.

norcalgirl, I think you handled it just right :)

BF (now ex, but I'm still here for some reason..this place is kind of addictive) would always do things for his ex. At first it was things around the house that would impact SD, like fixing a leaky toilet or sealing up window frames because mice were getting in, but as time went on it became more. He was hanging pictures on the walls, putting up curtains, helping her paint, etc. Every time he went to get his daughter he had "chores" to do. I even helped out a few times.

It didn't bother me much in the beginning because we were both on good terms with his ex, and honestly, we never experienced most of the "drama" I read about on here. But eventually it seemed like she was calling him every day for something. Usually something very minor that the average person could handle in a few minutes, but she started to be dependent on him for everything.

Eventually things weren't getting done at our own house because he was tired from working at her house, or he left his drill there, etc. And on top of it all she had an on again-off again boyfriend that was practically living with her. Her BF would be hanging around doing nothing while my BF was doing repairs on her place.

BF (now ex) would always complain about her asking for these things but wouldn't say no. But if I pointed out that her requests were getting out of hand it would start a fight. One time she had a handle come off her kitchen drawer. So she called him and woke us up early on a Saturday morning asking him to fix it. All she needed to do was put the screw back in and tighten it. Our only day alone together as a couple (they have joint custody, his daughter stayed with us 2-4 nights a week and all day every Sunday) was interrupted because a 35 year old woman didn't know how to use a screwdriver or just didn't want to.

There has to be a way to have some reasonable balance with this stuff.

From Sweeby - "He asked me for help once, and I told him to shove it up his you-know-where! OK - He called at 2:00 a.m. whining about a fever and asked how to take his temperature. I just couldn't resist an opening like that one... ;-)"

ROFLMAO! How on earth did I miss that one? Too freakin funny! I JUST started breathing again from laughing so hard!

Ima, every published statistic I have ever seen has women with less money than men after divorce. I don't know how many of the opposite cases you have seen, but they arent the norm. Supporting an extra home costs money. Many Xs are willing to help especiaally if their children live their even part of the time.

PPPHHHHHHHHHHHTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!! I just spit my tea out! I'm not sure what circles KKNY and TOS run in, but I'm not sure they live in the real world. My X wants nothing to do with helping our son outside of his court-ordered obligation. He actually told me once when I asked him to help with school clothes that I needed to ask my "sugar daddy boyfriend". I didn't get a dam dime or a stitch of clothing for a year! His mom felt bad for me once and slipped me a $20. I was supporting a child on $12/hr. with no help. Then, when he did start paying his CS, he paid $316 a month from 8/2003 to 8/2007. Four friggin years I had to live off that! Sure, he started helping with sports costs. He paid half of them which the court figured out to be about $90 a year. Yeah, a lot of moms don't get anything and I should be thankful for what I get. But I'm not kissing his feet for $316/month. I'm not kissing his feet for $535/month. Oh, and did I mention that he vandalized the car we owned and left me with the bill? He was being real "helpful" when he offered to pay for the repairs to the car if he could have it. Yep! Left me with no transportation. I had to borrow someone else's car for a year! Oh, and did I tell you that he left me with the loan payment on the lift kit he bought for his truck that he sold to pay his divorce lawyer? And that loan also included the new appliances that he sold to get a tattoo. Oh, yeah, and it also included the grass sod we put down in our front yard of the home we bought together that we had to sell because he couldn't afford it and refused to help me pay for. Sure, I could've gone on and on and on and MAYBE gotten more help. To what end? Him helping me out so I can pay off an attorney? Didn't seem worth it.

So don't tell me "Many Xs are willing to help especially if their children live their even part of the time".

Long time before my SIL met my brother she started dating this one guy and after only few casual dates (no signs of romance yet at all) he decided to introduce her to his mother. It seemed like OK thing just to come over to his place when mom is there. Besides mom, there happened to be grandma and aunt as well and they said they have a little something for his new girlfriend (she was not a girlfiend yet).

They gave her a little packet and when she oppened it was an apron. And then mom when to the kitchen to put together welcome dinner and suggested SIl joins her since now she has an apron. SIl was naive and young so she followed his mom to the kitchen and tried to be helpful. They said put the apron on, she did. then she saw how all of them stood in the kitchen door and watched her. it was beyond creepy. She figured that's what they do. Check on every new girl if she can cook and clean so they give her an apron right away. This guy was much older and never married. No wonder...every girl ran away after "apron" performance.

Creepy! I can imagine how that would have run off just about anyone...
But it's funny how families have these little 'tests' they put the prospective spouses through.

My great-grandfather was a surgeon, and he would invite his daughters' suitors over for family dinner, then ask the young men to carve the roast. (This was during WWI, when meat was scarce.) Of course, the entire large family watched the nervous young man... Thankfully, my grandmother was the youngest daughter, because my beloved grandfather was all thumbs!

In my own family, we had the 'orange chair test'. The orange chair in question was actually a MCM classic (not as ugly as it sounds) that rotated and tilted backwards. But the chair didn't look like it tilted backwards, so of course, the second the young man started to relax whoops! back he goes! (The chair was very well weighted, so it would never tip.) Anyway, the 'test' was to see if he was able to laugh at himself and how quickly he could regain his composure. And also to see if he sat in the orange chair again on the next visit.

Thanks for the memories...

kkny, it's only logical that the one that makes more money during the marriage, will continue to make more money after the marriage ends. If a woman chooses to depend on a man to support her, that's her choice. She can't expect to walk away from a marriage better off financially than her ex if she doesn't prepare herself for it.

My sister is going through a divorce after 22 years of marriage. She took a few college courses early in the marriage but has no degree. She has never worked much outside the home. Of course when all is said and done, she will struggle and her ex that has worked the last 25 years will bounce back financially, even if he has to pay her spousal support. Her kids are teenagers and in a few years, the child support will end and maybe she will still be lucky enough to continue to get spousal support. But, she's 42 with no education and no work history. All I can say to the ladies out there DON'T DEPEND ON ANYONE TO TAKE CARE OF OR PROVIDE FOR YOU.

In my case, my husband has worked in his job 21 years and I have been in business for less than 5, but we make about the same, sometimes I bring in more. If we were to go our separate ways, I would be in a much better financial position because he came with a ton of debt (racked up by a couple of his ex's) and I have very little separate debt. He makes enough that if we eliminated the debt, I wouldn't have to work at all and we'd be comfortable. But, I don't ever want to feel dependent on anyone. That's my choice.

Ima, as I have told you I did have a graduate degree and professional certification contemperaneously with marriage. However, I did work part time for many years, while X traveled etc for work. This did cut down on my career. Like many others. That is why spousal maintencance and child support exist. My advice -- dont get involved with a man with children and not expect him to provide financial and even other support.

You know IMA what they are going to say right!!!

Soemthing like this....

My ex husband and I made a decision together so that I gave up my career to stay home or atleast be available for when the children needed me that years later he even though we are now divorced he still owes me blah blah blah

Maybe someone should start a "Spousal Support" thread?

KK - REASONABLE financial support and obligations are one thing. Unreasonable demands such as "I don't want to work so I'll just file for more spousal support" are ridiculous. Paying spousal support for 10 years on a 3 year marriage is stupid. I have a friend who's husband left her after 20 years of marriage to be with his bosses daughter. My friend got 7 years of spousal support and only 3 of those were after their youngest was 18. So you you tell me how that's fair? But she doesn't complain.

It doesn't matter if it's your first, second or fifth marriage, you have to look out for yourself because nobody else is. A second wife should not depend on a guy anymore than a first wife should. I agree that it's fair to be compensated when you put your career on hold to have children and take care of the family, but it's not fair to think you will walk away from the marriage with a better financial position than the person that is the higher wage earner. It's not fair but life's not fair. If it were, men would be giving birth, not us.

Your advice KKNY to not get involved with a man with children and not expect him to provide financial and other support is good advice. I wouldn't date a guy that didn't see or support his children. I also wouldn't date a guy that talked bad about his ex. But, the flip side to that argument is that when you get divorced, you have to accept that when he gets remarried, he legally obligates himself to his spouse and possibly more children. His obligation to his first family don't go away and they shouldn't suffer because he remarries, but if he is able to support the new family by increasing his income, then it doesn't impact his first family. The problem is that when the ex wife sees his income go up (or the added income of his new spouse), then she wants her share to go up too. If his income goes up and he doesn't have more mouths to feed, then maybe it would be fair to give more to the first family. MAYBE. It also depends on the ex wife's financial situation. I agree with Ashley that an ex wife can't sit on her duff demanding increases because he's working his butt off to make more. She's not married to him, she needs to do for herself... how pathetic is that?

My husband's ex has gotten spousal support for 12 years on a marriage that lasted only one year. (Well, she hasn't finalized the divorce, probably because the court may stop her spousal support) She will continue to get it until he takes her back to court to stop it. My guess is that he is afraid they will increase his child support and reduce the spousal support (which is tax deductible for him) and so he lets it go.

Almost no one gets spousal support in my state when there are children, unless one of the ex-spouses is really rich. It makes no difference how long you have been married.

Ashley, I don't see what's so bad about $316 a month when you only have ONE child. I did get somewhat more than twice that, but I have six times as many children.

Really? Where do you live that $316 a month pays for daycare?

But........you know what, TOS? I'm not going to engage in this with you. It's ridiculous and I'm not going to stoop to that level.

"Ashley, I don't see what's so bad about $316 a month when you only have ONE child. I did get somewhat more than twice that, but I have six times as many children."

Not that it deserves a response, but it's ignorant to make a comment like that when you don't know the cost of living where Ashley lives or the income level of her or her ex, time share or all the other factors in calculating child support. In some places, $316 might be a lot (if the cost of living is low enough) and in other places, it's not a drop in the bucket to what it costs to support ONE child. Who the hell are you to JUDGE?

If you don't like the laws in your state, then maybe your time would be better spent, lobbying for change so that ALL your kids would get support, not just the first three. (and it doesn't even matter because it's irrelevant since you don't have SIX minor children) Complaining or whining about it here isn't going to change any laws or make a difference in your situation.

Ima, TOS has told us in the past that she lives in a high COLA. And she helps her children with college, which I find commendable. I think helping children with college can be more expenseive that smaller children. And I thought we could all voice our opinions here.

Isn't the idea that support of the child be split 50/50? If so, where in the US can you raise a child on $732/month? Especially small children who need to be in daycare? I live in a medium COLA. But, like I said, I'm not going to engage in this. I have already stated my financial situation I was left with after the divorce. Not to mention the bills I already had. I don't need to re-state these things.

Ima, you live in a high COLA (in KKNY's words) and have a young SD. How much a month does it take to raise her?

Or better yet, how about I start a new thread instead of getting this one more off-topic.