Wow Dotz, I knew you didn't like me, but you're not usually such a horrible b1tch about it.
And BTW, your math sucks. If I had A__ when I was 14 and I was now 25, he'd be eleven. In addition, I'm 26, and I'm about 8 months younger than his BM.

Yes, I'm PC. That's my personality - I'm typically a peacemaker and want everyone to be happy.
Yes, I'm idealistic. Why be a pessimist? Where does that get you?
Yes, I try to be a good SM. I can't be perfect, but I try to do my best. I want to have a good relationship with everyone.
Yes, I think BM and FDH and I are all in this together. We ARE all in this together because A__ is in all of our lives. Why on earth would I have an Us vs. Them mentality? What good would that do A__?

Wow Dotz, where did that come from? I hope you are just having a bad day as that seemed a little out of character. I don't think Ceph deserved that attack at all, and that an apology is in order.

We ARE all in this together because we are ALL raising the same child in most step family situations. To intentionally make it harder by being petty is pointless and stupid, and this goes for the steps and the bio's.

As I said in my original post (that KK I would like you to read again and tell me where I 'immaturely' said it's wrong from ex's to help each other out) parents working together after a split *for the benefit of their child* is the right thing to do. One parent abusing that for *their own benefit* is not okay, regardless of if the ex is in a new relationship or not. Could it not be possible that the ex, and not their new partner, might be upset if this is obviously the case?

Again, I don't know if too many men go running to their ex's for anything... so, I think it's less common to be a problem.

and then there are the exceptions... (I know, off topic, but...)

Here is a link that might be useful: man needs help from ex

kkny you still crack me up:)

Dotz you fell victim to kkny's deliberate barb saying that someone as young as your daughter is showing more maturity than you are in this situation. I see that ceph at her young age has shown more astuteness about stepfamily situations than I did. I also recognize that ceph is dealing with an entirely different set of circumstances.

Don't fall for kkny's deliberate barbs.

"Yes, I'm PC. That's my personality - I'm typically a peacemaker and want everyone to be happy.

Yes, I'm idealistic. Why be a pessimist? Where does that get you?

Yes, I try to be a good SM. I can't be perfect, but I try to do my best. I want to have a good relationship with everyone.

Why on earth would I have an Us vs. Them mentality? "

Ceph has just self described herself as the classical Saskatchewan Canadian. A majority of the people who are in SK hold the same values that Ceph does. They are the nicest people on the planet, impossible not to like, and in all the many places I have lived, SK is the place I most want to come home to. Its a province full of Cephs.

I feel homesick for people that are peacemakers, idealistic, and dont have an us against them mentality.
People in the south certainly arent that way.

Yes, you are all correct, wasnt just a bad day, it was a horrible day.. Ceph, yes deep apology, and its not that I dont like you...I am just so world weary....Yesterday was SSs 18th birthday...He met up with his dad and I, he knew he was going to give him money for his birthday..See, he needed the money because mom was going to throw him a BBQ for his birthday. BUT he had to buy the food with his birthday money....Because dad spends all his money on me...She doesnt have any..So, anyway, we left him on his birthday. Going off to the grocery, Not the end of the world, but it left me really sad...And I do have a lot of other stuff making me depressed at the moment, so Ceph again apologies.....I shouldnt be on the computer late at night when I m tired and down......

I am trying to think of any favor I could conceivably ask my exH for that would be exclusively for my own benefit, and not benefit the kids in any way, and I can't come up with one. Not that I am going to, but even if I were to ask him to go grocery shopping for me, build an addition on my home, buy me a new car, fix the computer - all of these things would benefit our children as well. If I got stranded, even without a child in the car, and asked him to pick me up, it would benefit the kids because I would get home sooner so they wouldn't have to be home alone. If I asked him to fix something that I would otherwise have to pay for, I have more money left with which to take care of the kids. Unless I asked him to pick up a novel or some portabella mushrooms for me, I can't think of too many favors that wouldn't benefit the children.

TOS,

He shot her down and never went back and told me IMMEDIATLY what she had tried to pull. I totally trust him. If he DID continue to go do favors for her it would only be because she needed time with HIM not because she really needed help. If he DID go to her house it would only fuel her sickness. Part of getting better for her means letting go of all the s*** she hangs on to. That means the divorce, her mommy issues, the fact she didn't have a relationship with daddy, exc.

Jonathan isn't stupid. He avoids the situation so his name stays clean. She can't accuse him of anything because he is NEVER around her alone. He won't be in a room alone with her even in our home. She stays at the door in plain view. Keep in mind that this woman is not normal so it is a little more complicated with her than it would be for your normal Ex situation.

IMA,

You are correct. He made the decision to never help her again on his own.Either way, I think I am within my rights as his NEW and frankly improved wife to have issues with her for trying to f*** my now husband behind my back. I was the bigger woman and never confronted her with it.

She got the picture loud and clear when J told her she was not her problem anymore and not to ask him for any more favors. I didn't need to say a word.

I do not maintain a friendship with my exh. Our contact is the bare minimum. If I could be friends with him, then we would still be married. My partner has no contact with my exh and my partner no longer has contact with his exw since his children are over 18 now.

Quirk,

LMAO... That is too funny!!! I concede, there may be SOME men that NEED the ex to help them....

Why is it OK for future SMs to sleep with Dad while he is still married, but people denigrate if X does that too (not that I want to). Double standard. Only a few SMs here say not OK to sleep with married man.

Really, KK? I can't think of ANY off the top of my head who condone or advise sleeping with a married man. I certainly don't.

TOS, you are correct that many favors can, if you blur the lines enough, benefit the kids. There are also many of those things you likely don't need the assistance on and can complete on your own, or with the assistance of another person. If the ex is willing to help that is fine, but I don't feel that he needs to be the first you go to for a computer, an addition, car help and some groceries. It seems there are people out there better suited to helping in some circumstances. . . . unless you are just looking for a reason for contact.

I hope you are feeling better soon dotz. Things sure can get overwhelming sometimes and a person wishes they could be 26 again:P

Sure, favours are great between exes if there are clear boundaries in place. Otherwise, it's best to find someone else to be your handyman/delivery boy/shopper/advisor etc.

If there are ulterior motives then it's not right. Of course, many things can be interpreted to 'benefiting the children', but a lot of the time those lines are blurred and there are other reasons for wanting to keep that contact.

And please, so many ex wives love to push that button when it comes to a new woman on the scene, especially using the 'its for the kids' line. Women are territorial. Even if they don't necessarily want their ex back, they still want to mark their corner and show the 'new woman' that they were there first. Annoying the 'latest eye candy' is more than a bonus - it's the main reason.

And you know (and this is just me) I would rather show some spirit and independence and get my own life sorted rather than go running to my ex for everything. Urgh. It just seems so ... needy. Even though I have a really good relationship with him, and I know he would do anything for his kids - I'm not his wife any more, I am his childrens mother only. And I have my own great and perfectly capable husband to turn to.

Asking for an occasional favour is fine, for the kids or for you, from anyone - whether an ex or a colleague - but taking it further than that is just embarrassing.

Why would there be people out there better suited to helping - I am sure, given enough money, I could find someone to do any of those things for a price, but how would giving oodles of money to some contractor from Home Depot for something my exH could do help our children?

My ex husband used to give a mean back rub, but I don't have a moments hesitation in paying money to a massage therapist to do the same job now ;)

Backrubs...hillarious. My EX was awsome at woodworking but I daresay that Jonathan would be rightly pissed straight the hell off if I went to him to build the babies crib.

It wouldn't be appropriate and also it would be extremely unfair to Jonathan. Then again I have a TON of pride and would not go to any of my Ex's for anything so I guess I can't relate to anyone even wanting to, kids or no kids.

"Women are territorial. Even if they don't necessarily want their ex back, they still want to mark their corner and show the 'new woman' that they were there first."

And second (or third, or fourth) wives AREN'T territorial? I think that has an awful lot to do with why they don't want their current husbands helping out their exW's, no matter how much it benefits the children.

TOS:

Do you receive child support or spousal support? If so, that money is to benefit the child, so use it to hire a handyman or whatever you may need. Your ex doesn't owe it to you to be at your beckoned call for the rest of his life nor yours. Who are you going to call when your kids are 18? Make some friends and while your at it, get yourself some strange!

Current wives have a RIGHT to be territorial...hahaha. We are WITH the man. I didn't tell him not to help his EX he made that call but I will say I do claim certain rights to MY husband. He does the same with me. We belong to each other legally and emotionally. We have paperwork, rings, a baby on the way and great sex every night to prove it :)

" * Posted by theotherside (My Page) on
Sat, Jul 5, 08 at 20:15

"Women are territorial. Even if they don't necessarily want their ex back, they still want to mark their corner and show the 'new woman' that they were there first."

And second (or third, or fourth) wives AREN'T territorial? I think that has an awful lot to do with why they don't want their current husbands helping out their exW's, no matter how much it benefits the children."

Barefootdiva didn't say 'first wives' are territorial. She said 'Women' and that would include second (or third, or fourth) as well, I assume.

And my exH and I share SIX kids, which is six more than he and his current wife share, and a quarter of a century of shared experience. Your husband does not "belong" to you, any more than I belong to my employer or vice versa. I don't recall the marriage vows including anything about not ever helping an ex-spouse.

gerina,

"while your at it, get yourself some strange!"

Huh? What the heck does that mean? Is that some new teenage slang that my kids haven't let me in on?

Yeah, I'd like to see you hire a handyman on what's left over from the seven dollars a day in child support I receive for each child.

Getting some strange means go get yourself laid!

Well, that was really classy.

BTW, it is "beck and call," not "beckoned call."

The definition of beckon is to summon, direct, or signal, so you would think that the term is Beckoned Call. The definition of beck is a nod or other gesture of summons-- at one's beck and call is subject to one's slightest wish. Therefore, by definition, it could be either.

He does belong to me...just ask him:) He'll tell you we belong to one another. It wouldn't matter if his ex would of had ten kids with him, he doesn't love her and he has no desire to hang out with her for favors or otherwise.

He'd rather be home with us. His wife and his children.

The following are excerpts from a traditional wedding ceremony. There are probably a million variations that brides & grooms use, but generally, the marriage vows are intended to clarify the union of a husband and wife and their commitment to one another... they become one. so, yes they do belong to each other. (although it's more of a willing act than one owning the other against their will)

Marriage is the union of husband and wife in heart, body and mind. It is intended for their mutual joy  and for the help and comfort given on another in prosperity and adversity. But more importantly  it is a means through which a stable and loving environment may be attained.

Marriage is an act of faith and a personal commitment as well as a moral and physical union between two people. Marriage has been described as the best and most important relationship that can exist between them. It is the construction of their love and trust into a single growing energy of spiritual life. It is amoral commitment that requires and deserves daily attention. Marriage should be a life long consecration of the ideal of loving kindness  backed with the will to make it last.

May this/these ring(s) be blessed as the symbol of this affectionate unity. These two lives are now joined in one unbroken circle. Wherever they go  may they always return to one another. May these two find in each other the love for which all men and women year. May they grow in understanding and in compassion. May the home which they establish together be such a place that many will find there a friend. May this/these ring(s) on her/their finger(s) symbolize the touch of the spirit of love in their hearts.

May you always share with each other the gifts of love  be one in heart and in mind  may you always create a home together that puts in your hearts  love  generosity and kindness.

DIVORCE is the ending of a marriage before the death of either spouse. Upon divorce, you are no longer joined as one. There is no longer an obligation to each other. It doesn't matter how many children you share or how long you were married. When it's over, it's over.

TOS: I have been trying to apologize to you since my "classy response went thru". I keep getting bounced out of thread. I am sorry to have been rude and offensive to you. I thought, typed it and hit preview. I changed it to a more polite definition, but as I have done many times before, I hit submit and not preview. Since my other message was in the box, off it went. I was truly mortified when I saw it! Again, I am truly sorry. And regarding this thread, I think we should agree to disagree. -Gerina

Women are territorail -- oh spare me. Dad wants to spend one weekned every 6 months with his child, well too bad if I need some help occassionally. And yes, I dont like his eye candy. Maybe if she hadnt slept with him while I was married to him I wouldnt dislike her.

kkny, has it ever occurred to you that the eye candy did you a favor? Why would you want to still be with a man that could do what he did? Why would you want to be with a man that could leave you with all the responsibility for your child and only see her once every six months? Okay, maybe you DON'T want to be with him, but why does all your hostility seem to be directed at her?

Personally, if I were married to a cheater for many years and didn't know what a scoundrel he is, I'd probably thank her for showing me so I can be free of him to find me someone that will love and cherish ME... and be faithful to ME. I'd dislike HIM, not her. She may be whatever you think she is, but HE is the one that vowed to you, not her. He slept with HER while he was married to YOU.

I am pregnant with my first child from Jonathan. If ten year from now he left me for a younger woman and all but abandoned our child I would shame myself for not seeing what a penis he was earlier and I wouldn't call him for help even if my very life depended on it.

I would rather eat a razor blades than appear that desperate. I can do anything I want with out the help of any man. I will never need anyone's help that badly to paint myself in that light. Furthermore, If he OFFERED help I'd tell him to go "ahem" himself. What's wrong with you ladies. Why would you WANT to maintain connections with these men. EEW.

Because he is still my DDs father. And I cant change that. So I do want to facillitate contact between them, and seeing as I am the only one willing to make a home for DD, yes I dont have a problem with asking him for misc. help. Dads GF chased him for years. She couldnt wait for DD to go to college.

colleen,

When you copied the text of your post from http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070814143230AANaKzc&show=7, you left out "but in the dictionary, it has "beck and call". Hardly an authoritative source, but if you are going to copy it, at least you could copy all the relevant parts.

gerina,

Apology accepted. I agree that this thread is going around and around, and I doubt there can ever be agreement on this issue.

Jonathan would still be our child's father too but I'd still take the razor blades if he ever did to me what your husband did to you.

I picture you as a very well put together,smart and self sufficient. I just don't get it.

Here's one for you. First my stepdaughter has a very big misunderstanding of who is who in the family. She still believes that her mother is part of my husband's family and that I am an intruder. She is always fond of telling me that I need to learn my place and she is the one who is going to teach me. Over there by the outhouse, that is your place. Remember this girl is 28 not a little kid.

So, anyway we had planned for a very long time to go visit my husband's family. I informed everyone as I always do (maybe I should stop), SD tells her mom we are going to be going there, although she swears solemnly that our lives are private and she never shares our private information with her mother. She lies.

We spent some great time playing games and such and a card arrives from my husband's ex to the man of the household where we are staying. Z opens the card and it is filled with little hand drawn hearts with "I love you Z" written inside of them. Z said wow this is the first anything I have received from her...isn't that nice. My husband is mortified of this deliberate intrusion into our long awaited visit which it most certainly was. Also remember his EX is 52 years old, not a little kid, so I found the drawing of little hearts frankly weird. But, very cleverly she had managed to become part of our visit, and my husband was visibly upset for the rest of the day. They divorced 16 years ago and we have been married for 14.

So, what do you do about a person like this who preaches sugar while practicing poison? Myself, I would have let everyone know how deceitful she is, but it is up to my husband to do that and he is too shy. He thinks people will just know. I said silence gives consent and unless you let your family know you want no part of your ex how are they to know the depth of your distrust of her?

But what is happening is his ex is driving him out of his own family using their daughter as an assistant. He is so embarassed and disgusted with her antics he is ready to say goodbye to his family. EX has done and continues to do the most obscene things. I truly have no idea where she is coming from.

So how do I deal with this situation? We can leave if that is what has to happen, but I don't really believe that is what he wants in the long term. Why should he be driven out of his own family by a controlling, manipulative ex?

The obvious thing to think is that he really doesn't want her gone, but I guarantee you he does.

Don't allow your husband to cut ties with his own family because of his ex. The easiest way to deal with it is to say to his family, "Gosh, I'm really sorry. That's just so embarrassing. I'm afraid she just can't let go. Wow, this is so sad".

Because it IS embarrassing - not for YOU, but for her. How sad to be behaving that way at 52. You don't need to tell his family what she is like. If she behaves like this, they will see it for themselves. If you or your DH open your mouths about what she is really like, she will use that to poison people against you, make you look bad, and rightly point out how vindictive you are being, even if you are just being completely honest. This is how people like your DH's ex work, so you need to either find a way to work AROUND it and hold your head up high and let people figure it out for themselves, or give in to the trap, run her down, and let her use it to turn them against you.

Sometimes you have to be a little clever ;)

"Z said wow this is the first anything I have received from her...isn't that nice."

If Z thinks it is nice, then telling him it is embarrassing or sad amounts to insulting him. If he thinks it was nice, then it was.

Colleen, Your story is my story,with the written and cell phone intrusions into the home, right up to the ages of the kid and X.......And thank you for your kind words...Have been brought to my knees this week, just overwhelming..You dont know how much a few kind words meant.....

Dotz, you have extended a heartfelt apology, and what I find odd is that it hasn't been acknowledged.

TOS, good for you! You go to the front of the class:) For a seemingly intelligent person, you show precious little true understanding.

Thank you Diva, good advice!

"Z said wow this is the first anything I have received from her...isn't that nice."

Maybe Z was just saying that to be nice to my husband because he doesn't know the true nature of their relationship.

Motive is the key here. What possible motive could she have to send at that particular time? If her motives are pure and she was really only being thoughtful she could have sent the following week when we weren't visiting.

Colleen, I'd appreciate if you'd mind your own beeswax.
No, I hadn't accepted Dotz's apology yet. It took me a day to decide I was ready to accept it, but I'd like any busybodies to note that I stayed out of this thread until I made my decision.

Dotz,
I do accept your apology. I stand by that you're not my biggest fan (which is perfectly fine) because there have been other instances where you have indicated that you aren't, but I realize that you are not generally a mean person and that you were not feeling quite yourself when you launched your assault. We can't all agree all the time, and every situation is different, so I accept your apology for that your differing viewpoint came out in such a cranky way.
Hope the rest of your weekend improved!!
Ceph

Hmm, my sentiment of wanting you to mind your own beeswax, remains, but I'm sorry I phrased it that way. I should have phrased it "Colleen, Dotz's apology and my acceptance of it is between Dotz and I. I would appreciate if others left it that way... continue to rest of post"
Please consider my post edited? I usually prefer to use more diplomatic language and I apologize for that I didn't.

Apology accepted ceph.

I remember when i started to date my husband his ex would call for him to drive almost 2 hours to shovel the snow off the roof or fix something in the house. And her demands and calls became more frequent when she learned i was in the pic. After we married and especially after our son was born the calls stopped but the poison fed to her children got worse.
"daddy doen't love you anymore because of the baby, the baby is more important to him now' :Load of cr*p!!! Thats another ramble i wont get into because it gets me angry.

I think it depends on how the divorce happened between the two adults. I know its rare for two exes to be friends buti do have a friend who is friends with his ex. It took almost 8 years for it to happen but now both families go out with all the kids. I'm glad for them but they are lucky and rare situation.
Most divorces are ugly, painful and both adults do not act like adults.
So the favor thing to me is just another excuse to hang on and it is not healthy. You are not moving on. I think if they became friends years later with hard feelings set aside iwth clear minds then maybe there would be a chance.

I was always friendly wiht my ex.

I rarely aksed X to do anything what did not directly concerned our child but he did things that he considered imprtant, such installed 2nd door, or helped wiht my garndparents' funeral etc. I am not the kind of person to ask for much but when X offered somehting i graciously accepted. i would help him wiht the same. When you share children then it is normal to help each other. But certainly not running stupid errands for each other.

this is nothing to do with moving on. when you have kids and eventually grandkids you cannot avoid having communication with each other, it is not good for children when parents hate each other.

there is a difference between being friends and being friendly. I do not per se consider X a friend because i would not be going places and doing stuff with X, it would be stupid. But i am friendly.

Just a reminder ... TOS is a SECOND wife !!!!

So let's just say, like in my case, the Ex tried to jump on the man when he went over to help which resulted in him running out of the apartment screaming. Would it be considered normal for him (or me) NOT to want to go over and help her anymore or are we still being childish and selfish?

Would you want your husband/boyfriend helping a women who was going to try to sling her nasty at him every time he stepped foot in her house?

I have to say that personally I would never call up my ex to help me with anything. I called him one time that I was in a jam and DS was not with me so it was more of something to do with me. He did not help me when I truly felt that I had no one to call at the time or else I would not have called him to begin with. I ended up finding help some other way out of my jam in the end and I will never ask another thing of him to help me out personally again. At the time I was desperate (hence the phone call to him)and I would not have cared if he had brought SM (TOW)with him if that is what he needed to do but he made lame excuses instead so I will never turn to him again. Now it is more of a pride thing. But I have truly only asked one time in eleven years that did not involve just needing help with DS that has usually involved more time for him anyway and I truly thought that once would not have been too much. I also know that SM is/was a very jealous, controlling woman through the years especially when it comes to ex talking to me and I do not know how much of that had influenced the situation. I do not know if now that they are split and he is single that things would be different but I will never find out because I will never ask him again--again, the pride thing. Besides, I am dating a man that is more capable than ex ever was at handling most anything that I would ever need anyway. But even if that were not the case, I would still never call him again. I do not believe that we will ever be true friends. I used to think that we all could be friends but I have come to realize that it is not possible, not in our situation anyway. We did try for a time but things always ended badly. We get along and maintain contact for DS but that is all that it will ever be and I believe that we both realize that and do not try to make more out of it.