First, have a chat with your husband about how you feel. He might not notice that they mistake you for the maid. Let him know that the maid just quit, and the guests aren't welcome until they shape up.

It's a matter of respect, and you aren't getting any from his kids, and he is allowing them to treat your house like a pig-sty and the resentment is building up.

They act like they are at a resort with room service and a maid! Well, resorts charge MONEY for that service.

Make it clear to them, in a family conference, that they are NOT guests at a hotel, and that they will be expected to act like responsible human beings .. clean up after themselves no less often than once a day, participate in household chores, etc.

I recommend getting rid of all the "toys", treats and other posh things like the MTV. Make it a bare-bones campsite for a while. The PlayStation can vanish to a friend's house, MTV can be cancelled, etc. There is no law that says you have to buy soda and junk food for them ... if they want it that bad, they can spend their own money on it.

And, hire a maid. Let them know "gee, kids, I'd like to take you to the movies, but I spent that money on a maid to clean up the mess you left the last time you were here."

kym61768,
This is a bunch of balony--You don't like your husband's children, but your real nice to them and want them to feel welcome. Huh? Well, they must feel welcome and are enjoying themselves.

My son-in-law wants his children to think of him as a wonderful daddy, so he provides his young children with loads of goodies. He doesn't remind them them to brush their teeth (and they don't). He won't make the children feel bad about the dentist bills he has to pay (and he won't ask their forgiveness because of all their cavities--gingivitis, etc.) Down the road, the children are adults with lousy teeth, and who knows what else is lousy--but daddy was wonderful. You know what? Daddy has a problem.

Brass tacks.... what are you saying?
Lazy garden....thanks for you input....I did talk to hubby the day I wrote this message and he is pretty good about everything. The thing is is that they just dont get it... He talked to them that night and told them that we both work and that they would be responsible for cleaning anything up that they messed up while we are at work.

Then heres what happened...I came home from work and they had let my daughters teacup pomeranium run freely all over the house....shes only 3 months old and we are still housebreaking her. So in the daytime I put her in the laundry room until we get home. Well anyway one of them let her out and I walk in the door ar 5:00 and she had pooped all over the house.... I mean literally. It was in every room. His daughter is sitting on the couch with five piles of poop in front of her. She had just got up at 4:00. She sleeps all day everyday. I went into the boys room and they were sitting there on the playstation as usual and there were 3 piles within reaching distance of them....The kitchen had 2 sinks of dirty dishes, the tables (all tables..kitchen,great room,bedrooms etc.) were covered with dirty plates,cups cereal bowls etc. Laundry everywhere,blankets pillow you name it. Needless to say I lost it....After their dad telling them just the night before....I cleaned all the poop up and refused to do anything else....when hubby gets home around six Im livid....He goes in the house and tells them to clean up...They dont so hubby cleans it all up. I had to leave and go to neighbors to get away so that I wouldnt blow. The thing is hubby agrees totally with me that they are being lazy, disrepectful of our home but he wont make them do anything. He tells them and thats the end of it. He says he feels bad because hes not with them much.
Then the next day (yesterday) I had to take the day off and have a carpet cleaner come to the house and I spent a vacation day cleaning my house. DH tells them to be ready when he gets home and he will take them to dinner and a movie. But they have to me ready because he gets home at 7:00 an Thursday nite. I remind the boys 2 to 3 times that day that they need to be ready and I also tell them to clean up the bedroom...They never moved. Daughter does nothing all day but sleep and watch tv. At 6:00 she showers and gets ready for dad but never lifted a finger to help while Im cleaning all around her and the boys. The 17 yr old Stinks....I couldnt go into the bedroom because when I did....I would gag. He hasnt showered sinc Mon.
When hubby gets home theyarent ready so he tells them we arent going anywhere.....he makes the boys shower and he was pretty harsh with them....the older ones gets out of shower and puts the same stinking shirt he had on since Sun. (when he showered mon. he put the same drtiy shirt on since Fri) hubby tells him to take it off and he does and puts it in laundry room...now laundry room smells so bad I had to put in wash right away... there is no reason for someone to be that lazy and nasty. this is the kicker.....he doesnt take them to eat or movie.........he does go get pizza and a movie for home....whats the point! he then tells them if they are ready tonight and there messes are cleaned up he will take them tonight! after eating pizza and I have cleaned for about 8 hrs all day I go to bed....I get back up after awhile and they are laying there with pizza boxes everywhere...they did put dishes on table and sink....for me to load in the dishwasher....so what did they learned? NOTHING!!!
Am I asking to much for them to put the dishes in the dishwasher instead of all over the counter and sink! I dont like leaving dirty dishes overnight. And I'll be damned if I go to any movie with them....but they wont be ready anyway....too lazy to take a shower!

You have a 16, 14, 12, and 9 year old home alone all day long. What is happening is not unusual. I would guess that they have been left to their own devises for a long time. When kids are left alone or their parent(s) are so pre-occupied that the children are not being taught to be responcible, you can't expect much of anything but hanging-out kind of behavier.

If you don't feel comfortable about communicating your expectations to each kid on an idividual basis--being specific, EVERY DAY, and then checking everyone's chores when you get home, EVERY DAY, then I suggest that you grin and bear it.

You should not be sicking the kids' dad on them. If you have a complaint--take responcibility for it, and communicate with the kids.

If you want to be in your marriage for the long haul, then you are going to have to take many things into consideration. Running to the neighbor, complaining on a forum, those are not actions taken by someone that is serious about their predicament. You are pacifying yourself into thinking you are doing something--when you are not.

Brass tacks.... Actually just his kids are there. my son goes to his grandmothers everyday. Hubby chooses to leave them at home this week. They are here for a few weeks over the summer. I think like you they need something to do. I offered for them several times this week to go to my mothers with my son and swim with him and my neices and nephews. They declined. Im telling you they have no drive to do ANYTHING! Wont even get ready for dad to take them to movies. I did start this week saying a few things to each of them...example... please put your clothes in hamper,please put your dishes away.... they wont even acknowledge Im talking to them.... I even said goodmorning to the 17 yr old and he ignored me.....which happens often....so this morning I took it a little further and said.....Uh Craig I just spoke to you...he then replied with a grumble like it was killing him. I went home at lunch today just to check on them and took them Mcdonalds for a surprise....they had already began trashing things and I said to them all "you know guys your Dad and I expect things to be tidied up and you all ready when we get home to go to the movies....Well we'll see soon how that goes. I truley am trying they just will not speak hardly and act like not even there when I speak to them...not only when I tell them to do something but even if I ask if they want to play a game of yahtzee or go to a ball game they acted like I wasnt speaking. Hubby has to says "guys shes speaking to you. I just dont understand.... Im so frustrated

Oh, and brass tacks....my daughters were left alone at that age and even a girl friend with them and when I got home they never had those messes.....they usualy had vacuumed and straightened up a bit....We were just married in Sept. And they have been visiting every 3rd weekend since. They obviously have had no one teach them anything....possibly mother was the one leaving them alone often. My children were always supervised until 13 yr and then they would get off of bus for about 2 or 3 hours until i got home... never did I leave them all day during the summer break until they were about 15 and wanted to...even then it would only be for a day a week because they prefered to go to a friends or grandmothers to swim!

You are probably taking the kids behavier personal. I wouldn't do that. I'll refer back to what I said about how I think the kids have been left to their own devises for a long time. Their problem is more of a spiritual nature. I could be all wrong--but I think you are describing kids that don't think they're important or of any account.

They need to understand that you all are going through changes. They are now a part of another family--their dad's and his new wife's family.

See if you can get them at the table and talk about things--maybe let the kids set the agenda for what you all talk about. Get them talking and be a good listener. Ask them what they think about this or that. Ask them about what their favorite thing to do is--anything. It's about them having a reason to believe that you are truly interested in them. Don't let it turn into a kind of giving advise kind of talk. Let it be a sharing kind of talk.

Let them know that you wish you could be home when they are visiting. Perhaps you will be the only one that talks. That's ok. Don't talk about your history--they don't want to hear history.

They'll all just probably sit there. But that's ok. The important thing is that you reach out to them and don't give up. Don't take their lack of interest personal.

Even if they might not like the cituation--just take it your stride. Remember, you had your daughter for ten years before her brother was born. You probably spent much time with her and was able to teach her many good habits. There are lots of other things about your daughter and your son's relationship with you that you are not going to experience and can't expect to experience with your husband's kids.

As for the house--try to remember that what is clean to them most likely is not clean to you. OK, you know that already. Make sure that you communicate that it is important to you that everyone picks up after themselves--not just them. No one gets a pass. Don't be saying things like, 'this is my house...'

When you talk to them about something that you don't like, let them know how you feel, not about what you think of them. And for sure do not give them labels or call them names. Say something like, I feel like you don't like me when I find your trash laying around. If that is the way you feel, say it. What you say should be about how YOU feel, not what you think of them. Do you get it?

When you are about to say something hurtful--bite your tongue and think of something that helps you feel better. Don't scream. Be positive. Mean what you say. Follow-up on any direction you give.

When all is said and done, just remember that you want to feel good about yourself. Don't worry about if they react to you in positive way.. They most likely won't give you any positive feed-back.

This kind of get together would be a good idea for all the visits. Eventually kids look forward to them if they're kept positive.

Well, I'm seeing this in a totally different perspective--because I have one of those husbands suffering from good old "divorced parent guilt" too.

First off, your husband is the one who needs to address the children. Be there with him, back him up, whatever, but these things should come FROM HIM. This is NOT acceptable behavior and he is hurting his children by tolerating it. He is also hurting his marriage. I would flat out ask him why he's kicking everyone in the teeth. His lack of fortitude and leadership is putting his entire family in jeopardy. (Frankly, I couldn't live as you are.)

Secondly, I disagree with brass_tacks. It IS your house. You're the adult, they are children. YOU pay the bills. YOU make the rules. It's that simple. It's that simple for your husband, too.

Were these my kids, all video games, TVs, junk food, EVERYTHING would disappear from the building. There would be no car for any who drive. No telephone. Nothing, and they would be required to earn it all back and I wouldn't feel a bit bad about it. Of course, all the rules and everything should be made perfectly clear by their father, not you. Still, I'm just mean enough to do it myself if I had to.

I truly believe that your husband is the biggest problem here--his abdication of his parental duty. There would be no asking those chldren "what do you want to do" from me. There would be a lot of "this is what you're going to do." No movies, dinner, etc. He's NOT PARENTING HIS CHILDREN, and I would be horrendously bitter and angry with him over it. I truly do not know how long I could put up with it.

Kym61768
Reading about your situation brought back some very repressed memories of the same type of experiences with my stepsons. I despise cliches, but I truly feel your pain.

When we married (2nd for both), I had a 14 yo daughter, he had 5 and 10 yo sons. Within 3 yrs we had one more son and one more daughter. Needless to say, we both worked full time. Kids are expensive!

Life in the first couple of years was hell. My daughter was a princess and did not adapt well to the male invasion or the loss of our "Gilmore Girls" lifestyle. She was - to be charitable - difficult ... she loved my hsband, but hated the change in lifestyle. Thankfully, her acting out was ameteur and her girlfriends all loved the idea of babies and a big family and being part of the herd, so she/we survived.
The s-sons were a different matter. They were with us every other weekend, 6 weeks in the summer, and most school vacas. Although younger than your stepkids, we had many of the same problems. Lack of personal hygeine, walking away from their messes, plus throwing footballs, baseballs, etc in the house - often at breakables... intentional damage disguised as accidents (that came to an abrupt end when they mistook one of their father's prized posessions for mine). Much of our troubles were fueled by their mom - she gave them permission to call my daughter and myself D----- B--s... "because that's what they are!", they would chew their food at meals and spit it back on the plate... "It's a game we play at home - my mother says we can do it here if we want", they were not big fans of soap, shampoo or water - clean clothes were unheard of ( they would arrive with a bag of dirty clothes) and the younger one even arrived one time with an awful rash on his 'lower extremities' that the doctor said was strictly from filth! It was so bad that the younger one even went through a spell where he would not use toilet paper; he wiped whatever on the walls!!! I cried with relief many times as soon as they went out the door and headed for home.

My husband was much like yours - the guilt was enormous, the fear of alienating and losing his kids was crippling. I was - like you - afraid to rock the boat, or come across as a witch and I didn't want to undermine my husband. Ultimately, after many terrible arguments, we came to the conclusion that we were not presenting a united front. We also came to realize that my daughter and I were really fringe issues. The core problem was their lack of respect for my husband and his condoning their disrespect and their behavior by catering to them. He also realized that the problem had become so significant that he was wwell on the path to destroying his relationship with them by virtue of his behavior. Kids instinctively smell fear and they know just how to leverage weakness. We had many family meetings where we invited their input but made clear that we set the rules. It took a long time (and a lot of tears) before there was any progress, but it happened. It is a marathon...it will take time - lots of time (and pain).

Vivian32 is on the right track - you have to take control - of the kids and their father. Even if he won't stand up for himself and demand respect, you are entitled to your own self-esteem and his and the kids' respect - you do not have to debase yourself because he chosses to. The house is yours - enforce rules... be clear with them that this is not their mother's home. Someone has to take the lead and you husband can/will not at this time. Remember to maintain YOUR dignity - no tantrums.

To Brass tacks - quoting you - "If you want to be in your marriage for the long haul, then you are going to have to take many things into consideration. Running to the neighbor, complaining on a forum, those are not actions taken by someone that is serious about their predicament. You are pacifying yourself into thinking you are doing something--when you are not." Hey Brass tacks - There is no training for this type of situation. Much of it is finding your way. Thank god for friends, neighbors, and forums - they do help maintain sanity. You can be serious about your predicament and terrified and unsure at the same time...Have a little empathy; Kym61768's situation stinks!!!

Kym61768 -- There is hope. We're 20 years into this marriage, we have survived. The kids are 33, 29, 24 and the babies are 18 and 17. I am not the boys' mother, but we have developed pretty decent adult-to-adult relationships. They come to me for advice and the older one asked me to do a reading at his wedding. We all consider ourselves to be family. The kids do not think in terms of step and half sibs - they are brothers and sisters and are insulted when someone outside corrects them on the actual status of their relationships. It was not easy and in all honesty, sometimes I wonder if I would have done it again if I knew how difficult and painful it would become.

Good luck - do not panic - Maintain your self respect AND your sense of humor!
HLAC

Kym61768

I do not see your husband as the other posters. I see a man that wants his family life to be non-confrontational--he may have his methods thought out. So I would give him every benefit of doubt. I sure wouldn't complain about him to my friends, co-workers, or anyone else. That will affect your attitude toward him--believe it or not--it's true.

I also disagree with Vivian about your husband being the one to communicate with his kids rather than you. I believe that if I have a gripe with someone, I will take responsibility for myself and address the person I have a gripe with. Are you offended if you find out that your mother criticized you to someone else and had someone else tell you what she could have told you to your face? There is no difference. I'm sure there will be many that will disagree. Of course, there have been and will be many topics that your husband would be the more appropriate one to talk to his kids about. You should never, ever talk about the children's mother--or reference the life the kids have in their own home. You shouldn't be saying things like, 'this is not your home' or 'you're not at home'. Those are hurtful things to say. If you say those kind of things, I could understand why the kids don't give a hoot for you. If you don't treat your husband's kids with respect--then you don't respect your husband. And you then would not gain respect either.

Although you are sharing your home with your husband and his children, it is unkind to remind someone that the place their in, is not theirs. Very often a person will sell their home when they get married and purchase a home that each can claim as their own. Of course, there are all kinds of reasons that this doesn't/wouldn't be desireable for everyone. Sometimes a person identifies themself with their home and surroundings and they can be very possessive about many things. It's not comfortable for the person(s) coming into their home. I'm not saying this is what you are like--I don't know you. But if it is you, then that is just one more thing you need to take into consideration.

You care that when you come home from work, you do not find a mess. We all can understand that. That's easy. But I would contend that the relationship that develops between you, your children, your husband, and his children is what should be your priority.

These children may not be too impressed with their dad's new life--maybe they've had lots of disappointments. Take into account that they are home alone--and that is unfortunate for them. They are hanging-out at your house, and that's about it. Were you ever in their situation? I have not, but when I was a kid, I did have a visit with a cousin for a few weeks. What I did while visiting was not like what I would have done at home. I was not expected to do any chore, and my cousin was given a pass on some of his chores--just because he was entertaining me. There is no one entertaining your husband's children, so they are relaxing and enjoying themselves as much as they can--given the circumstances.

You said the kids come to visit every three weeks. You are talking about weekends I presume. Do you plan your weekends so that you all are not just going your own way on those visits?

I still contend that children need to know where they 'fit in'. They need to know what part they play in this new family. No doubt the two oldest children have concerns about their future. They are not talking about it--that doesn't mean plenty doesn't go through their minds. If you are bragging on your daughter or your son--you can expect resentment. Shopping sprees and pedicures? Right.

Brass tacks... seems to me you have made alot of speculations, I am 40 yrs old so I do know something about raising children. I did raise twin daughters that are extremely responsible. Maybe thats why I expect such things from my son and his children. My son can be a slob at times too. He just doent take it nearly as far.

As a matter of fact....my daughters and I all had peidcures together Monday. They were home for the weekend and we hung out togeter over the holiday. We also had my sons birthday party on Saturday. We all swam and had a barbeque. I did ask his children to attend. His daughter did go with us for a pedicure and she also came to the party. His sons would not come with us. Again they chose to stay home all weekend alone (DH was at party too). I even called them after a few hours to ask if they had changed their mind and if we could come get them to come swim with us. And they wouldnt ....saying that they were watching a movie. When we got home they were playing playstation as usual there was a huge mess.

I would never say things about this being "my home" I realize that is no way to make his children feel apart of the family.

hlac and vivian.....thank you for giving me some motivation to not get frustrated and give up....after this week I have had a few doubts....Hlac...your story has been inspirational....please tell me that that the hygeine part got better...that is the thing thats drives us ALL crazy. Even DH.

Friday when we got home as usual the boys had not gotten ready ...same clothes from the day before....no shower...When we got into the car we all about died....The older son STUNK. My hubby said "what stinks" and his daughter said "its Craig...he always stinks. Hubby was so mad. He told him when we got home he was to take a shower immediately.. well when we got into the car to go home and everyone holding their breath he goes on to say...."Im too tired to shower tonight. I'm going to take it in the morning" I was livid...and hubby says Ok. The whole bedromm stunk!!!! My DH was saying how embarrassing it was to take him to a restaurant and an movie with him smelling like that but then lets him slide. I left early Sat morning to prepare for Landon's party and DH says that when he got up the next morning he still wouldnt shower. He said he told him 3 times and he ignored him...He said after that he said ok Craig we need to talk....he took him into our bedroom alone and said he told him that it was unacceptable to not shower and asked him if he wanted to be the "stinky" kid in school. He said he told him there was no way he washed the day before and sit in an air conditioned house all day and still stunk even if he showered the day before. He told him to get into the shower and use shampoo and soap. He then gave him deodorant and told him he should be using it after every shower. He said he told hime that he loved him and just wanted the best for him. Im soooo glad I wasnt there for that. he said that Craig was really mad at him and still tried to get out of showering until he just really had to make him... I cant understand a almost 17 yr old not wanting to shower...and never wanting to go anywhere. We practically begged him to go with us over the weekend to the mall, party, fireworks etc. Yesterday DH took all the kids canoeing with his buddy and his kids. He chose not to go and stay home with me. I told him I would be cleaning and doing laundry all day and it would be more fun to get out with the others but he wanted to stay home. He played the PS2 for 6 hours until they returned and Dad made him turn it off and come to the table with us for dinner.

I just dont know what to do........His youngest son (12) wont participate if Craig is visiting....if Craig doesnt come Jacob(the 12yr old) will do anything with us...Although he is still quiet and wont talk.

We see nothing that makes them want to be a part of this family and ZERO effort for them to try to fit in with us. His daughters does try some but mostly when she thinks some money is being spent on her.

I am just about ready to give up and let DH deal with getting them to participate. My children have had alot of changes too and certainly have been through just as much with a divorce and then the death of their father....and they are willing to try...
Also this weekend....Craig never once shared the PS2 and knocked the hell out of my son that is 52 pounds and he is 200 pounds easy....that was really hard for me not to say anything but I didnt and let DH handle it!

kym61768
Just finished reading your latest and the phone rang - the 24 YO SS is stopping over after work to take a shower before he goes to his sweetheart's soccer game. Ironic!!

Yes the hygeine situation does get better. I think ultimately they stop being so angry when they recognize that they are hurting themselves as much as (maybe even more than) anyone else and expending a great deal of energy doing so. With a little luck, they start to become more objective - sometimes a little embarrassed - and they ease into the routine. Everyone showers and wears clean clothes - ultimately they do, too. I found that the more the merrier helped, - we encoureged each of the older kids to brig friends along and we kept busy - have you ever done a county fair with two strollers and 8 other kids between 7ish and 16ish? The herd/peer thing takes theminto a world of thir own where their behavior reflects on and impacts them - it's not about the parent/step parent.

Stick with it - I'm thinking of you!
HLAC

kym
It is not unusual for a 16/17 year old not to want to take a shower, or go places with his family.

Also consider that the odor of perspiration does not always wash out of clothes. His cloths could be ruined. The cloths will smell clean after laundering, but the odor will be noticed after the shirt is put back on.

Vivian and hlac are exactly right, and any family counselor will tell you that discipline must be left up to the biological parent when families are blending. It's tough, but your husband has to straighten this out.

The refusal to take a shower is another form of aggression, because it expresses a contempt for the feelings of others. I've lived through what you're experiencing, and the only thing that helped was telling the stepkids and my husband that if I got home after work and the house/kitchen was a mess, I wouldn't be making dinner that night and would immediately leave and go treat myself to a nice meal at a restaurant somewhere, then come home and pursue an activity of my own, leaving the house untouched. You need to construct safe places for yourself, while your husband learns to take responsibility for dealing with the kids' behavior. There is no other way.

Can you all go to family counselling? It can help.

But Brass tacks.....the shirt wasnt even laundered. He took it off all smelly and put it right back on when he got out of the shower. After DH made him put a clean shirt on I put it in the wash and he wore it Sunday and no smell because it was clean and he was made to take a shower.

Newbie.... thanks for your input too.... was wondering if not showering is a form of aggression toward me or his Dad.Why doesnt he shower at his mothers too? She has the same problem with him...I dont know how she stands it!

HLAC....Im so glad to hear that your ss called to come by and shower...it makes me feel better to know there is some hope. Yes, Ive done the 2 stroller thing too. Remember I had twins. I remember so many times taking mine & my sisters kids to Opryland....whew that was sooo hard. Helps me remember that even now with all the chalenges of teens raising littles ones is pretty tough too. I dont think I would make it if they were all little when DH and I married!!!!!
Thanks to everyone for your input!!! I will say that I am looking at Craig not showering a little different now....I just seen him as lazy lazy lazy. Now I think you guys are right about some of his behavior. There probably is more to it than being lazy...I think when they return for the next visit I will be able to handle it better. I do still think he is lazy but that will change in time I hope! Its just so hard to not get mad when your riding for three hours in the car and you cant breathe becuase he smells so bad!

kym, your SS is probably mad at all the adults in the scenario, including his biological mom. He may also be clinically depressed, and depression can be a form of anger turned inward. Inattention to hygiene is a classic sign of depression, especially in as extreme a form as you describe.

kym,
When there is an agreement between step-parents that only the biological parent will criticize, or discipline, etc., their children, it is an agreement to divide the family. That is called devisive--creating discord or dissension.

If your stepson doesn't want to shower, and the family doesn't want to be with him or around him because he smells, then the family can leave the boy home alone--like the boy wants. Let him have his control of this. When he is reminded that he won't go with the family because of how he smells--maybe--just maybe he'll decide to take a shower. Let the boy have some control over himself.

As for the dad not following through with what he says--he needs to find out why he does that. Individual counseling and family counseling would be a help. Usually, when there are problems that cannot be resolved in amicable ways, individual or family counseling might help; if the parties are willing to spend the money on counseling for a year or more.

"If your stepson doesn't want to shower, and the family doesn't want to be with him or around him because he smells, then the family can leave the boy home alone--like the boy wants. Let him have his control of this. When he is reminded that he won't go with the family because of how he smells--maybe--just maybe he'll decide to take a shower. Let the boy have some control over himself."

I don't think so. This is classic passive/aggressive behavior and the parents have EVERY right to control their child's (and yes, even at 17 he's still a child) behavior. No one who ignores basic personal hygiene would be welcome in my home. As long as I pay the bills, I make the rules. Families are not democracies. Parents need to take charge and be parents. Perhaps the boy is suffering from depression, but that is entirely separate from this BEHAVIORAL problem that impacts the orignial poster's enjoyment of HER OWN HOME. It's passive/aggressive and should NOT be tolerated.

As long as the biological parent makes clear that all adult decisions are made by both parents, in private, and that the stepparent is always consulted on those decisions, including discipline, it's being made abundantly clear to the children that the parents are united, not divided. But--and again, I'm quoting family therapists--the face of the person meteing out discipline needs to be the biological parent. If a stepparent assumes this role too early in the blending of a family, the conscious or unconscious hostility many stepkids already feel will be inflamed. Allowing the biological parent to be the overt disciplinarian isn't giving away the stepparent's power, it's a strategic move, and it works. A stepparent can still express his or her desires regarding the behavior of the stepkids, and expect those desires to be obeyed, but if they aren't, the kids need to know the discipline is sure to come from the biological parent. A stepkid's frequent, and natural, response to a stepparent handing out discipline is, "Oh yeah? Who do you think you are?"

When a child thinks he or she can play two parents against each other, that's when you have a divided family.

vivian,
You have judged that Craig is engaged in passive/agressive behavier. You might be right, you might be wrong. This is not just about showers. This is about two teenagers that are not very interested in pleasing their dad or his wife. They clean up after themselves as if they were not taught to do so. I find it hard to believe that these two teenagers haven't been told over and over again to clean up after themselves. But nobody has spent the time to SHOW them exactly what is expected and then followed through with paying attention to how they perform.

If a parent is spending the time to show and be specific about what they wanted, and then follow up EVERY TIME to see how the direction was being followed, and then any logical consequence would always follow--If that is done day in and day out and the behavier from the kids remain willfully uncooperative--I would find out why. Discussions would commence on a serious scale. If communicating in some serious fashion did not help the kids see the parent's seriousness, then some very logical consequences would follow. The consequences would be communicated in advance. Let the kids take control--that control is accepting the logical consequences of their behavier.

I seriously contend that these teenagers have not been taught that what they do is important. I see them as unmotivated because they are not looking forward to anything.

Why the dad does not follow through with what he says is a serious issue. He may have his method thought out and I would give him the benefit of the doubt--but he needs to share the reason he doesn't follow through with his directives with his wife. I still contend that the dad and step mom need to rethink about sharing the responcibility of communicating with the children.

Brass Tacks, yes, I agree that the parents need to find out why these children act this way. Something is seriously amiss. I find it hard to believe that at 17 the peer pressure alone isn't enough to make a kid take a shower!

Still though, basic personal hygiene should be expected. You can get to the bottom of the problem later, but right now, you better clean up. I don't see anything wrong with insisting on that. It's not just a personal thing--it affects the entire family. Then again, I'm very sensitive to that stuff and I guarantee that it would make me gag. No need for that.

Everyone....thank you so much for all your input! After reading your posts, you guys have made me look at things a little differently. I was just mad....soooo mad before. The shower thing drives me crazy and I refuse to live in our home with that kind of laziness. However, I did think for a fleeting moment last week while Craig was visiting that he might be depressed. I was associating it with him having no desire to do anything. Literally not leaving the house for 2 weeks with the one exception of going to the movies with us on Friday nite.
Newbieroselover made me make the connection with the depression and the hygeine also. I have read many times that depression makes one not care about hygeine. I guess I didnt realize that it could be that serious. And never would I have thought a child could be that depressed. Its really sad. I mentioned to my husband that he may be depressed. He loves his kids and I think he has so much guilt about not living in the home with his children that he tries pushing things to the back of his mind. I am going to mention this again over the weekend and recommend that we take him to a therapist. My children have seen an excellent family therapist since their dad passed away. At first I felt that she was wasting our time but eventually I did see where there was so much good from taking my kids.
I know theses kids have been through so much with their mother....she left hubby for another woman!!!!She left for 2.5 yrs without any contact with her family or children!!!! From what all the family says...even her family...this was a complete surprise and never any indication that she would be a lesbian. The children are with her...DH tried getting the kids but judge says that she does not put them in any danger and isnt neglectful....was wondering if you let your children go without showers and Im sure others notice.....isnt that neglectful? I remember once a mother was found neglectful for not taking a child to the dentist/doctor. What do you guys think? Again thanks to all who have made me realize this is probably not just a big case of laziness!!!!! At least regarding the hygeine part.

Kym -
I agree that Craig sounds clinically depressed ... the lack of hygiene, the zoning out with the video games, lack of interest in other activities. It's common in teenagers.

The ex's being a lesbian shouldn't be a problem, as long as the two have a good relationship ... the 2.5 year abandonment certainly was a rude thing to do to your kids, and might be part of the cause of the behavior problems.

"hubby cleans it all up" Point out to him that he is teaching them, by his example, that it's OK to trash their surroundings and wait for the other person to do the cleanup work ... it's a VERY bad lesson, because it will get them fired from most jobs and make them really unpopular as a room-mate or spouse.

"He says he feels bad because hes not with them much." And they are taking advantage of it. Point out that he has to live with you ALL the time and his reluctance to enforce some reasonable rules is really pissing you off. His role is a PARENT, not best chum and housemaid!

"DH tells them to be ready when he gets home and he will take them to dinner and a movie." ... when my parents told us to be ready at X:00 o'clock for something, they left at X:01 and if we were ready, we went. If we weren't ready, we didn't go. They did no nagging, reminding or waiting for us to get ready - their feelings were that if we really wanted to go to the movies, we'd be clean, dressed, and sitting on the couch at X:00

If clothing stinks like garbage ... it's garbage. Just toss it in the trash. I tossed a couple of reeking t-shirts that my SO's sons had left to ferment in a corner of a room. They were totally offended because they were supposedly favorite special priceless shirts, but I told them that anything that stank like a dead animal would be treated like one. If it's a priceless treasure, it should be cared for. I haven't had to throw out too many "dead" things lately.

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I agree with Vivian ... they would be living under convent-like conditions until they learned some better habits.
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The core problem was their lack of respect for my husband and his condoning their disrespect and their behavior by catering to them Yes ... the dad has to be in charge, and present

Kym,
Has anyone mentioned that Craig could be addicted to the games he plays? What about Craig during the school year?

Brass tacks............I know that Nikki(his sister) told me that at home they limit him and Jacob to a few hours. From what I gather thats school days....I know that on the weekends he isnt with us he goes to a uncle(mothers brother) and thats all they do ALL day on the weekends. He seems to like to go where ever he is allowed to play for hours...even days on end...The last 2 days he was with us DH made him turn it off in the evening. He also told him that when they came for the next visit that there would alos be some time limits set for the boys. We just dont want them on the PS2 all day everyday. We would like to see some effort on their part. I think hes depressed and possible addicted to games. He needs to participate with the family. Next visit dad has a camping trip planned and he isnt going to give him the option of not going. What do you think?

Kym,
Sure hope that turns out for you all. The dad has to be kept encouraged to follow through. Hope you can stay forward thinking and firm at the same time. It takes so much mental and physical energy to maintain standards. We all know that it is work--progress is slow--takes patience. Best to you.