I think your sd has some hard lessons to learn ahead of her and she better get use to the fact that once you make a decision ...you LIVE WITH IT!
From what i see by her mom's reaction, is that she wont take her cr*p either.
On your end, you better sit your dh down and tell him about the conversation you had with bm and her response and then remind him that sd is not to move back in. It will be a hard lesson to learn but she must clean her act up , get a job and get off the drugs! If bm does kick her out, i think all of you must have a team plan. This does not include her moving back into your house...this will enable her..and also not moving back into bm's. Another solution has to be made and she cannot be 'given' any more slack from either side. The drug problem has to be nipped in the butt and it will be tough.
Stand your ground and remind your dh about the agreement you guys have between you. Maybe get togehter with bm to form a plan b as well.

Some more background please -- is she just off during the summer -- will she be going to college in the fall?

kkny - SD quit her job 5 months ago. We have always had the rule in our house, you want to drive, you pay for your gas and insurance. For the first 2 months off work she begged and borrowed to come up with the money (because she didn't want to stop driving). BM stepped in about 3 months ago and took over her car insurance, her phone bill and has been giving her gas money "to look for a job". Now, S.D. is living off of the money she got for graduation (which wasn't a whole lot). DH and I stopped "lending" her money because we didn't want to support her drug habit.

SD claims she's starting college in the fall. She graduated with a 2.4 GPA, so no scholarships. SD hasn't registered for college yet because she hasn't had the money for the application fee ($40), so the whole college thing is up in the air at the moment. The college she's talking about attending is a local branch, so I assume she's planning on living at either BM's or our house. BM wants her to work and help support herself, too.

Organic - I agree, DH, BM and I need to have a plan. I'll talk to him tonight about BM's response on Saturday. Good thinking!

Uh...no way would should be using my house as a truck stop after her partying. She for sure wouldn't be draggin' strangers over at 3 in the morning when I had to work, ANd the kid is involved wiith drugs?! Uh, sorry but it's tuff love time.

You are not Motel 8 sweetie. If the kid was doing right and wanted to visit it would be one thing but if she's just washing the cigarrette smoke and puke out of her partied out hair and scrubbing her girly parts down after hookin' around because she's too high on pills to drive back to BM's(sorry to be blunt but I know the type)than my damn door would be locked.

Daddy is going to have to get tuff with girlie girl for her own god. Mom sounds harsh but maybe mom is the smart one. Maybe mom is tired of dealing. Maybe you guys should take some notes.

2.4 GPA??? I don't see in school in this kids future.

"SD claims she's starting college in the fall. She graduated with a 2.4 GPA, so no scholarships. SD hasn't registered for college yet because she hasn't had the money for the application fee ($40), so the whole college thing is up in the air at the moment."

Sorry Poppingrays, but unless YOU sign her up, I wouldn't count on it. Come on! Not going to college because she can't find the $40 to register? Some life plan...

On the crash pad stuff -- For my son (who is NOT on drugs and is responsible and college-bound), I'd say notify by 10:00, home by midnight, no guests and QUIET!

What about bm and dad paying the application fee for her and also helping her fill out the financial aid forms?

Then if she decides not to go it is on her....and the "I didn't have $40" excuse is out the window!!

BM needs to stop giving her any $ and stop paying for extras like a cell phone. If sd has no ambition she needs to realize the things she will no longer be able to have.

As for the drugs situation I would think bm being a drug counselor would have some ideas to help....maybe a treatment program or something??? Even Narcotics Anonymous meetings? Something!!!

2.4 is enouhg to attend community college. You are wrong about it doodle. Of course Yale is not her future but there are plenty of community type of colleges. More so some local state universities in urban setting could take students wiht low GPA, they start them wiht prep programs, put them on probations etc

on topic of coming to sleep at the middle of the night or taking showers. SO's DD20 shows up late at night no warnings as well. She rents her own apartment (wiht roommates) yet shows up at dads in the middle of the night without warnings.

More so when she visits her mom who lives few minutes from dad, she drives to dad's house to take a shower (mom's bathroom is filthy), drives to dads to do laundry (mom's laundry room is filthy), drives to dad to eat (mom has no decent food), comes to dad to load her car wiht food and house products (used to also load it up wiht my possessions LOL finally stopped). If she would be my daughter I would tell her if you are staying wiht me then stay wiht me but if you are staying with the other parent then do your laundry, eat, and take showers there.

SO doesn't like that she is using his house as a restaurant or a landromat but of course says nothing.

Wonder what meeting her in the hallway with a baseball bat and a loud scream would do to her 2:00 am surprise visits?

Just kidding... sort of

FD, you are absolutely correct. Where I live, there is a range of after HS programs. A community college can point her toward better grades or a vocational program. She needs to go and take an aptitude test. I certainly dont condone drugs or excessive drinking, but I wouldnt write off a teen for that. I think there is room for compromise. On days when I have to work the next day, and DD doesnt have school or work (she has days off in between) she knows she has to come in VERY QUIETLY. If she is not going to be in by prearranged time, she leaves a message on my email -- I can check, but it wont wake me.

sweeby - hallway, baseball bat.... LMAO! I love it!

mom2mom - between senior pictures, school fees, graduation fees, unnecessary doctor's visits, drug evaluation fees, trip fees, paying to fix her car, sundries, clothes, etc., etc. SD has bled us dry this year. I don't think it's too much to ask for her to get off her duff and cough up $40. She said she was going to use some of her graduation money for that... I guess we'll see if that happens. BM is paying SD's bills right now, so I don't blame BM for not giving her the money for it, either! It's just another excuse SD's using to not take responsibility for something.

doodle - BM hasn't had to deal much with her, other than paying her bills for 3 months. SD's only been at her Mom's house for 3 weeks, now. I think maybe BM has a much lower tolerance for the B.S. this girl dishes out than my DH does (must be the 'daddy's little girl' thing). I agree, she's not using our home as a truck stop.

I believe SD could get into college, it's just a matter of her REALLY wanting it. I put myself through college, it's not impossible! I just don't see her really wanting to put in the effort to make it happen... She's just out having 'fun' and that's all she cares about for now.

kkny - yes, SD has problems, but we have no intention of writing her off. There does need to come a point for her to own up to her decisions and choices. She has to stop be enabled, then it should start to sink in (hopefully!). As far as coming in late, there is no way for her to come in quietly. My dogs start barking the minute anyone pulls in the driveway and won't settle down until she's actually in the house ( and DH sleeps through it!)

Wonder what meeting her in the hallway with a baseball bat and a loud scream would do to her 2:00 am surprise visits?

too funny sweeby

I don't know what to say -- I think telling a 18YO she has to be in by 10 is basically telling her no room at the inn. I understand you need to sleep -- so do I.

Poppin,

Here's a possible solution for the crash pad. DH gives her some firm rules regarding his and your home. Your requests are not unreasonable - call first, be home by 10:00 and if she visits, it's a visit. Put a chain lock on your door(s) and secure them when you go to bed. I think it will only take one time of trying to get into the house at 1:00 am, and finding it impossible to get it inside to make her call next time. She may wake you as she tries to get in, but then you can wake her dad and let him firmly deal with it.

The school stuff - whoever said for DH and BM to pay for her application and then help w/financial aid - great idea.

I know you CAN get in with a 2.4 average. I'm saying she won't. School obviously isn't on this kids priority list with grades like that.

She is using school to buy her piss off time. She has no intentions of enrolling any where. She is too busy hitting the clubs.

Put the foot down. Just say no to being Motel 8 for a Paris Hilton wannabe...that's all I'm saying. If she wants to stop in to say hi during normal hours GREAT! I would not be the hold over between the bar and home though. No way.

"I don't know what to say -- I think telling a 18YO she has to be in by 10 is basically telling her no room at the inn."

Yes, but keep in mind, this is a girl who is floundering. She's not working, not in school, has no firm plans to enroll in college, and she does drugs!

I think setting a firm boundary of 10 pm is fine. If she were a responsible 18 year old, like your daughter seems to be, then I would say of course she has EARNED the right to stay out late. But that's not the case here.

10 pm is not unreasonable in this situation.

Apparently she wants to go to college, but needs financial help. I would have been more encouraging with applications. But it seeems no matter what, SM cant accomodate anything after 10 PM

If the girl is so strapped that she can't afford a 40 buck app for community college....how is she affording drugs,booze and hanging out in bars?

She doesn't need financial help....she needs a reality check.

"If the girl is so strapped that she can't afford a 40 buck app for community college....how is she affording drugs,booze and hanging out in bars?"

I tend to agree.

What do you think is the best way to GET her on track?

- By shelling out $40 bucks and helping her sign up for some classes at the local college (even if she won't take it seriously)?

- Or by telling her to be in by 10:00 or not at all (which won't happen) and that she has to pay for her own college (which also won't happen)?

I'm certainly of the opinion that enabling a grown child/young adult to behave irresponsibly is not a good thing, and that at some point, you have to put your foot down and cut them off. But 18 seems pretty young to do that.

"If the girl is so strapped that she can't afford a 40 buck app for community college....how is she affording drugs,booze and hanging out in bars?"

I agree too.

I do understand this is a big transition for SD. I don't want to make her feel that she's not welcome, but I also don't want her using our home as her "crash pad" because she doesn't feel like driving back to BM's after seeing her boyfriend (he lives a lot closer to us).

You probably can't have this both ways. If she is only allowed to "visit" and not stop by to shower, sleep, or raid the fridge, or other home-type, crash-pad activities, when she feels like it, she will probably not feel welcome. There probably is not a "fine line down the middle" that you can walk.

I say this as someone who basically was your SD at her age. Well, I did have a part time job. But I was not heading to college, no idea what I wanted to do with my life, and went out partying a LOT. Up until graduation I lived half time with each parent. Once I was eighteen and out of high school, I basically decided I didn't need a curfew, so I stopped following one. My dad took basically the tactic you're proposing; told me I couldn't live there anymore unless I agreed to quit the partying and have an early curfew; first time I came home late, I would be locked out. My mom let me stay with her, paid a low-end of market value rent, I didn't have a curfew, didn't stop partying, but also didn't bring it into her home. In retrospect, which was objectively better for me? I honestly don't know. If my mom had given me the same rules as my dad, I wouldn't have stayed; I'd have found my own place. I might have "grown up" a little faster if I'd been living on my own, or I might have just been that one kid that has their own place so everyone else comes to party there, which would probably have wound up sending me into a lot more trouble than what I got into coming home to mom most nights.

But I will say my relationship with my dad was strained for quite a long time. In my teenage mind, I was working, being a productive member of society, not out robbing banks or anything, and just because I wasn't going to college and liked to go to parties, neither of which seemed like horrible things to me at the time, I was --the way i saw it then-- being rejected by my parent. It did hurt me and I did resent it for years.

Now, I'm not telling you that what you're suggesting is wrong I think that's a personal, family- and situation- specific choice. I'm just saying if you do it, be prepared for some emotional fall-out.

quirk - I have all confidence that SD is not a menace to society. DH and I have told her that she is welcome to move back in, BUT she has to be working. We don't expect her to work full-time, just enough to pay her personal bills and buy her own clothes and sundries. We don't expect rent or for her to buy food. She is doing everything in her power to avoid doing the right thing and get a job. Believe me, I liked to party when I was her age, too, but I worked and I followed the rules of the home I lived in... it's not a hard thing to do!

SD had plans to move in with BM since the beginning of her senior year, this wasn't a "spur of the moment" decision for her. She tried moving in with BM last Feb., but it was just too hard for her to commute to her high school and she didn't want to start a new school half way through her senior year, so she came back home to finish. SD has had every opportunity to get things right, she just continues to tread down the wrong path. I pray that BM can help SD straighten out, DH and I are not the ONLY parents here! We've given and given and given to this child. It has to even out sometime!

I should have also offered this bit of advice. If you do implement a "no crash pad" policy, I would make sure you and DH go extra-far out of your way to invite her over frequently and specifically. Not just "stop by whenever you want" because the no-crash-pad policy is sort of emphasizing that this is not her home anymore, and sending the opposite message. Which I understand is sort of the point, but if she is a visitor, vs a household member, treat her as any other visitor and invite her to come visit. Make sense? Although of course she isn't exactly like any other visitor, whom you might reasonably expect to reciprocate invitations, since she's living at her mom's and, well, presumably that would just be awkward.

Maybe you are already doing this, I didn't notice if you mentioned it, or if it's even been long enough since she moved to have established any pattern.

I should have also offered this bit of advice. If you do implement a "no crash pad" policy, I would make sure you and DH go extra-far out of your way to invite her over frequently and specifically. Not just "stop by whenever you want" because the no-crash-pad policy is sort of emphasizing that this is not her home anymore, and sending the opposite message. Which I understand is sort of the point, but if she is a visitor, vs a household member, treat her as any other visitor and invite her to come visit. Make sense? Although of course she isn't exactly like any other visitor, whom you might reasonably expect to reciprocate invitations, since she's living at her mom's and, well, presumably that would just be awkward.

Maybe you are already doing this, I didn't notice if you mentioned it, or if it's even been long enough since she moved to have established any pattern.

What I meant to do was say we crossed posts, and i didn't see your last one when I wrote mine. I do understand your position (I'm not 18 any more after all). I'm certainly not anti-rules for 18 year olds. But I do think that going out of your way to point out that your house is no longer her home is likely to make her feel unwelcome or a little bit rejected, so be thoughtful about how far you go or how you go about it.

quirk, you're absolutely right. We should extend invitations rather than tell her to "just stop by". It has only been a short time since SD has moved out, so no patterns have really been established. We just thought it would be a good idea to set some ground rules early on since SD was showing a propensity to make a habit of strolling in our home in the middle of the night.

We don't want to keep her away by any means, she must understand that her choices affect people other than herself. I also feel that she needs to give living with her BM some time, and not just cut and run from there if BM's rules are "too much" for her. SD's been wanting to establish a relationship with her Mom for a long time, unfortunately, it's taken BM this long to reciprocate. This whole thing is really hard because of the drugs being in the mix. SD wants to live like a rock star, but doesn't have the means to do it! She needs to decide what is more important.