Hmmm, sounds like the Judge has got her number. Hope she doesn't just load all this onto SD's shoulders, she's a child and shouldn't have to hear all the dirty details, sigh..

Stay the course, think you and DH are handling things quite well and if you don't get an address/and able to do a drive-by and confirm thats where they are really going I wouldn't let SD go with her either.

This caught my attention, they are moving to a "larger" home but she's unemployed and strapped for $$ ?

Arrgh!
So she continues the same tricks, and you guys are left hanging AGAIN!
Poor SD!

What do you bet in three weeks she says "But I just moved and I don't know what happened to my papers" ???

DH must want to say "I don't just want an address, I want to see you use the key and I want a tour of the darn house to PROVE you live there!"

If the attourney says you can refuse visitation if you do not get an address than that is what I would do. DH should say "I will drop her off at your new home for visitation". If she refuses then he can tell her "attourney says I have the right to know where you live or deny visitation". Choose visitation or secrecy...

Her whole story sounds fishy to me.

Hmmm . . . wasn't the last "bigger house" she was getting the loft they are moving from now??

I agree, if your atty. thinks you can refuse visitation w/o an address of where BM will be taking SD then I would. I also think making the drive to drop her off and see the house for yourselves would be a good idea.

Isn't it amazing how people think they can just disregard 'the rules' and do what they want? She was ordered by a judge to do something, and because she doesn't want to she just stalls it out and makes excuses, as if he will just give up. Amazing.

Sorry it was so 'all for nothing.' I know it would be nice to have some closure.

It was interesting to listen to the cases before ours. There was a few mothers that weren't so subtle in telling the court that their children shouldn't have to go visit dad.... didn't like stepmom... says if the kids have to visit, they've already threatened to run.... Judge told her she should be discouraging them from running and sure, they may not be happy to see dad, but they need time to work on a relationship.

and Martha, the funny thing is... she CAN'T get the proof. It's all lies and she can't prove she's getting $250 when she's really getting $683. She can't prove she stopped working in April when we think she really stopped working in December (if she was even working). and if she files for unemployment, that will prove that she hasn't really worked at all in the last year. We have text messages and emails where she's claiming that she can't pick up SD on time because she's working late, working a double, etc. That was at the end of November. Then in December, SD went there for 10 days. She said mommy got 2 or 3 weeks off from her job at UPS so she can stay home with her. (DH asked who watched her while mommy was at work) To me, I think it's doubtful that she was still working for UPS because if she were, they don't give new employees time off like that during the busy holiday season... at least I wouldn't think so.

It will be nice when it's over but I know that SD will hear all about this and BM will blame us that she has to pay our attorney and that they lost their house because of us and everything will be our fault. I'm taking SD to the counselor in a few minutes and I'm planning on staying with her today so we can work on our relationship.

Thanks for all the support.

If bm does give you her address and you let sd go for the weekend your dh should tell her and text her reminding her that she is not allowed to talk about court issues with dd.
She will probably do it anyways, but at least you can say you reminded her it was inappropriate.

The counseling session went pretty well. We talked about SD giving me the cold shoulder and then getting mad at me when I don't want to do 'extra' things for her. She admits that when she complains to her mom that I won't do certain things with her, then her mom lets her do them just because I won't. She also admitted that her mom ignores her a lot when she's over there and she's having a lot of rivalry with her mom's BF's kids over her mom's attention. She also said that her mom's BF's kids really get upset that she calls their dad 'dad'. It just sounds like the train wreck DH and I saw coming when she told us she was moving away with this guy. It was good that SD feels comfortable enough to start talking about her feelings about her mom since she has been so protective and wouldn't admit anything her mom does bothers her. She's still shifting a lot of the blame on her mom's BF and his kids instead of her mom not paying attention to her though.

"She's still shifting a lot of the blame on her mom's BF and his kids instead of her mom not paying attention to her though."

Ima, this is how my Sd would behave as well. It wasn't that mom was choosing to go to the beach with her BF(now hub) on a visitation weekend, but that BF was 'making her mom go to the beach instead of being with her.' We would reply that mom is a big girl and no one 'makes' her do anything. As she has matured and faced similar situations with friends she understands more that it was mom's choice, not her step dad's force. There are still times she'll come home complaining about a fight step dad caused and we'll encourage her to look at the problem from all sides; 8 out of 10 times she realizes her mom played a large part in causing or perpetuating the fight. 2 out of 10 though her step dad was just being an a$$ - he's pretty good at it.

I'm glad SD is starting to voice how she really feels. That's a sign she is starting to think for herself and is seeing 'the light.' Expect it to be a sad time, but relieving just the same.

poor SD. this woman is nuts. does judge even know her older DD does not live with her and yet BM collects CS? still strange why she is selling her cars and furniture if they are moving just 5 miles away, how are they going to get there with no cars and what are they going to sleep on?

why is SD calling BM's BF "dad"? he is not even a stepdad, just a BF. I wonder if BM encourages it.

I find it ridicilous that BM can disregard what judge tells her to do. i would be petrified to lie about anything in court or not provide requested information.

It reminds me of SO's X who asked for spousal support and told the attorney that she sacrificied her career for raising a family for 28 years and taking care of her DH. When attorneys asked for a proof, she could not provide any because she always held well paid professional job since she was 21 and has a graduate degree in that specific career. No sacrifice. lol some people have no shame to lie to get money.

and I agree SD should not be going there unless Dh knows exact address and proof that Bm actually lives there.

What I even find more ridiculous is that she lied about her pay when she had the paystubs which clearly said more. I wonder if there is some mental issues there b/c that is just not normal.

giggle, she didn't turn in paystubs. She's a PATHOLOGICAL liar. She probably has no paystubs to turn in. She was sanctioned for not attaching proof of her income. She 'declared' on her I & E that she got $10 an hour and 'declared' verbally in court that she got $8.75. She can't keep her lies straight.

She'll probably be sanctioned again at the next hearing since she can't prove anything she says. Proof doesn't exist. We have proof of her spousal support from the court and the Judge told her to bring proof (copy of the court order) that it's not what we say it is, but what she says it is. It doesn't exist because we got it from her divorce case and it's the most recent document filed. (in 1997)

Ima, that's almost crazier. Seriously. She got fill it in herself.

according to what we have been reading here, BM never had a job. and if she had it, she left it herself because if she was laid off she would be on unemployment right now. i wonder what her BF finds in her. plenty of decent women cannot find a guy, but she keep finding men who support her.

What I can't believe is the judge just keeps giving her chance after chance to bring the stuff in. When will the judge say enough is enough?

Ashley, I think the Judge was sending her a pretty clear message by making her pay $500 to our attorney. If she doesn't pay it, then she can be found in contempt and that's a quasi criminal matter. She can be fined or put in jail for not complying. He told another couple ahead of theirs that he cannot make a valid order without valid information. I would guess that he might keep fining her until she admits she lied and accepts responsibility & consequences. I'm not sure if she even knows how to tell the truth... and that's what she's teaching her daughter.

Yesterday, I casually asked SD 'so, do you like the new house your mom is moving to?' and she looks at me with complete shock. "she's moving!?" 'I figured you knew your mom is moving.' She stood there looking puzzled a few minutes and I really believed I had let the cat out of the bag. I didn't know what to say because I didn't want to be the one to tell her and have her get upset. I didn't even know where to tell her if she asked. Well, a few minutes later, she says, "Ohhhhh yeeeah.... mom found this really big house that has three acres and it's really nice there." She started telling me all about it and how they've been looking at houses for weeks. She knew all about the moving sale and everything. She was keeping it secret because she didn't want us to know. Once she figured we knew, I guess she thought it was okay to tell all.

Today, BM was telling SD that they've already moved in and she can't wait to show her. She says her grandma is picking her up Sunday and bringing her over there. We'll see. The last time BM told us it was a six bedroom house her boyfriend owned and it turned out to be a no bedroom cottage with a loft that he rented. SD was promised her own room the last time and they even talked about painting it her favorite colors and then I had to deal with SD's disappointment when she found out there was no room or big house.

I really don't understand people who continue to lie after they've already been found out. What's the point? Poor SD! She probably doesn't know what to believe ever. Hopefully she'll learn the lesson that lying doesn't always get you what you want. Good luck with this and just keep being honest with your SD.

One of the hardest things that I'm having to deal with is watching BM lie to her daughter. It can be amusing to me to see her get tangled in her web of lies to the court and see how she tries to get herself out of it, but when she lies to her child(ren), it's heartbreaking.

When she moved away with her boyfriend, she told us and her daughter that she was moving to a six bedroom house. She promised her daughter her own room, made plans to decorate it together, etc. and when her daughter went there, she came back disappointed. Not only did she not get her own room to decorate, there were no rooms for anyone, except a walk in closet that was set up as a small room for BM's BF's daughter. Even after that disappointment, BM is now saying she's moving to this new house. I'm sure SD doesn't know the truth. She was telling my husband's parents that they are moving in with her mom's BF's parents but telling me and DH that they are moving into their own house (the address BM gave us). SD was telling my DH about the new room she's going to have and going on and on about what her mom is promising her. It's unbelievable to me that she can do this to her own daughter. It's one thing to say, 'we don't know what's going to happen' and another to make all these empty promises and break them.. wishing it were true means nothing to a kid.

Today is the hearing on child support. BM requested an afternoon hearing, so we go at 1:30pm (it's 8:30am now). That means DH misses another day of work. To be honest, I'm hoping the judge hangs her today.... We got our attorney's bill for over $2,000. We have to pay $300 an hour for the first hearing that she didn't show up at... she called it in. Then we were billed $1,175. for the last hearing, where she didn't have everything the Judge told her to have from the 'phoned in' hearing, so even though he sanctioned her $500, we still get stuck with the other $675. (and she hasn't paid anything on it yet either). Well, our attorney sent me an email to tell us that BM hasn't sent her anything and the Judge ordered her to send all the info to our attorney. So, we're not even sure if BM is going to show up today... she could find herself escorted to the County Jail on contempt charges. (and at the risk of sounding bitter, I hope they do!!!)

Oh yes, she lives near an area that was evacuated last week because of a fire. (she wasn't actually evacuated) but we kinda expect she will use the fire as an excuse why she didn't do anything... remember, she's had three weeks to get this stuff and the fire was three or four days last week where it probably was chaotic where she lives. (and she did move... her BF's exW says that her BF sold his boat to get enough money to move into the new house and he told BM that she NEEDS to get a job, he can't do this all himself. It sorta makes me feel sorry for the BF because he still believes she's going to get off her butt and help out.) They moved from the cottage with a loft, where he was paying $700 a month, to a 4 bedroom house that costs $1600 a month. She is supposedly going to get a job to help make up the difference in rent. Yeah right!!! (not to mention the other bills that will go up with a bigger house.. utilities)

Oh she didn't tell SD.... "You're father is going to put me in jail ... ask him if he will take you to visit me in jail" or "If I don't pay my support I am going to jail and its all daddy's fault"... on the phone with hubby while her children are crying in the car... "Are you going to bring them to visit me in jail... the kids crying louder".

Doesn't matter how much she has to pay as long as she has to pay something ... if it were the other way around they would (the courts) would be raking our husbands over the coals to get the child support ordered and enforced.

Good Luck!! to hubby and SD.

IT'S OVER!!!!

No more hearings... we got a final order!!!

BM did not show up. The court imputed the income that she declared on her Income & Expense Declaration (which is less than minimum wage) and the full amount of spousal support that DH proved she gets. The grand total she has to pay????

$216 a month.

Oh yeah, and he was awarded another $500. in attorney's fees. So, it cost him $2,400.00 ($1,400.00 if she pays the $1,000.00 to our attorney) to get an order for $216. It is hardly worth it, but at least my husband no longer has an order saying he has to pay her. It made him really nervous when she got mad at him and told him "well, you haven't been paying me the support that was ordered" and he had that hanging over his head.

Gee, I teased him that he should call her up and leave a message on her phone, much like the one she left him the day after the court issued it's order for him to pay her. She called and told him that he was in arrears and contempt because the order said effective August 1st (but they didn't even go to court until August 7th) and the court didn't issue it's ruling until August 20th...

I'm just glad it's over.

WTG SD and Hubby ... now to get her to pay!!!

Congratulations!

Well, at least you can enjoy the court's ruling, since I doubt you'll see any of her money...

FINALLY! I'm so glad to hear that's over. I guess you have to look at it as an expensive price tag for piece of mind, but in the long run it will be worth it. At least you don't have to worry about what she might try to do.

I can't believe she didn't show up. Actually, I can . . . and that's sad.

Sleep well tonight!

I doubt it is over. She won't pay. Hope you can force her. what a mess.

The ray of light in this is that she gets her spousal support through her divorce attorney. It's automatically taken from her husband's paycheck and goes to the attorney, who then sends it to her. Our attorney says that if she doesn't pay, it can be taken from her spousal support by writ. DH is going to take the final order over to DCSS and let them collect... they can intercept her tax refunds, unemployment, disability and when she works, they can access those records. They can also suspend her driver's license.

It's never really over... but at least there are no pending court hearings. We aren't going to lose sleep if she doesn't pay, we just got tired of her making threats to my husband. She used to threaten to take his daughter, so he filed for an order. Then she threatened that he was going to lose and not get to see his daughter and have to pay her a lot of support. Then, $13,000 in attorney's fees and five months later, he got an order that says when he has his daughter (50/50). Then when she got her order for support, she called him immediately to threaten contempt charges because he didn't pull out his checkbook THAT DAY and pay her. (She was NOT happy with the amount because the custody was 50/50) Then she moves away and gives him full custody three weeks later and doesn't think she has to pay anything. In fact, she tried to intimidate him again because he wasn't paying her the support for the 50/50 arrangement because he had full physical custody. So, another $2,400.00 in attorney's fees later... she has to give him a measly $216 but it is worth it if she can no longer 'threaten' him. She is still threatening to take him back to court to get full custody but he isn't worried about it since he has an order (that she signed) and she has no legal leg to stand on. She can no longer threaten to make him pay back the last nine months of support because at the last court hearing, she agreed that he shouldn't have to pay it and today the court made the final ruling. She isn't likely to file to go back to court for a while since she would have to explain herself. If she files for custody, she's going to have to explain to the Judge... why she moved three weeks after the trial.... why she left both her daughters for a guy she only knew a week or two... why she hasn't paid any support... why she is late to or cancels visits.... why she thinks it's best for her daughter, to uproot her again to move her away from her dad where she has been for a year with no problems, where she has made friends, where her counselor is, where she is settled and stable, to go live in a house where they just moved to, that they may not be able to afford and may have to move again, where there's a lot of rivalry with her BF's kids.

Just because mom wants it to happen. or Just because mom doesn't want to pay support. or Just because SD has no rules there and has more fun there... well, those aren't the kind of reasons a court wants to hear.

Good News!!

"Just because mom wants it to happen. or Just because mom doesn't want to pay support. or Just because SD has no rules there and has more fun there... well, those aren't the kind of reasons a court wants to hear."

Definitely - I remember DH's attorney telling him its not enough that she can prove her circumstances are better; she has to prove that you have failed/created a poor environment before they will move the child/ren. So since she probably won't pay you support and isn't likely to have an epiphany on her choices I'd say you're pretty secure. Enjoy the threat free life!

What a relief this must be for you! It's got to be nice to actually knock the monkey off your back!

I wish my FDH would see the peace-of-mind as worth it. Maybe I should copy your post and send it to him. LOL!