I would prepare yourself for her to probably get EOW. We were in the same situation a few years back (full custody, spotty visitaion, no phone calls, etc..) BM wanted EOW and we wanted once per month...even with all of the things that made the judges eyebrows raise, BM was still awarded EOW. Perhaps setting it up to where BM must call to confirm so many days in advance of her weekend or no visitation occurs would help. That is what we did and it really did help get a schedule down, we knew that if we hadn't heard anything by wed, that we were free to make our own plans and stick to it. Court is ALWAYS nerve wracking, you'll only feel better once it is over. In our case after BM was awarded EOW she stuck to the schedule for a few months, and then just stopped. Good luck!

"Perhaps setting it up to where BM must call to confirm so many days in advance of her weekend or no visitation occurs would help. "

This is a good idea. You can ask (and hope they say yes) the courts to set a specific time for BM to call and confirm the weekend. IE--if she doesn't call or email to confirm by NOON on FRIDAY, then she forfeits her weekend. At least then you guys aren't sitting around by the door at 7 pm on a Friday, not knowing when and if she'll show. Given her erratic visitation with her son, I would think the courts would see it in HIS best interest to give you this confirmation time. SS deserves to know if he's going to be with BM or not and shouldn't be left wondering EOW. That is not good for him mentally or emotionally.

I would prepare for the possibility of her getting EOW but cross your fingers she doesn't! I really don't know. Bear in mind that just because she GETS it does not mean she will use it. And remember, court things are often not won in one big war, but little battles at a time.

It took DH full years of court before he finally had residential custody and an order in place stating BM cannot consume alcohol while SS is with her or 4 hours prior. Hard to prove if she violates it, but it is GOLDEN to have it in writing--it is documentation of her alcohol problem.

Good luck! One step at a time.

Thanks fiveinall and lovehadley. That is one of the things that DH tried to do with the schedule that he made (have some kind of notice); he explained that now that SS is a bit older he is invited on sleepovers, camping trips, scouting trips, to parties, etc. and he has had to say no too many times already only to have her no-show. It is also one of the things that she is going to fight, apparently; she said as much to DH on the phone. She also has decided that if she cancels or no-shows, that she is then entitled to make up that time if and when she chooses; so there were no weekends that we knew for sure that we could schedule anything.

I just wish I didn't feel so helpless. I feel like we are living under siege all the time. I feel like she has voodoo dolls of us that she can just reach out and stick pins into at will.

This sounds like the type of issues a court-appointed mediator (or arbitrator) should be able to work through. The suggestion to have her call to confirm is so very reasonable that a mediator or arbitrator -- someone who had enough time to actually listen to both parties, view your written log of her past visits and no-shows (you have one, right?), and hear her "I want any time I want" compared to your "We need to be able to plan some activities" would surely rule in your favor.

As the others have said, I'd expect the court to order EOW (with make-up time 'as agreed' which means you don't actually have to agree) -- But I'd pin your hopes and efforts on the 'advance notice' clause, given her history of no-shows and the kids' ages.

Dad should be able to convince the courts that mom has to call within a certain time frame prior to picking SS up. But unfortunately you cannot force her to see SS every other week even if the court says so. many parents who have visitation rights do not exercise them properly. Good luck!

sweeby, yes, DH has the log of visits and when she called to say she was coming, cancellations and when (if) she called to cancel, phone calls, and pretty much all communications with her. We also will have the records from the school nurse (he was getting "tummyaches" on Thursdays and Fridays which would miraculously disappear if she called to cancel) and his counselor says that she does not feel that more visitation is in his best interests at this time and says she will provide us with a letter stating her opinion.

I just don't understand it; how can she go to court and say "I don't even see him the once per month that I can, and so I should get more time to not see him?!" That would be like if I went to my boss and said that I couldn't perform my current job and so could I have a promotion! (Come to think of it, I know people who appear to have done exactly that.)

finedreams, if he wasn't in such bad shape when he returned from visits I'd love to have even a couple of child-free weekends. We don't make plans for dates on weekends that she might have him, because it seems pretty poor to say "Sorry your mom didn't want to see you, well, have fun with the babysitter 'cause we're going out without you" - so the way things were we almost never went out without him at all (because if we did know she was canceling then of course we wanted to do something with him.)

Thanks for the support. Normally DH is so supportive of me but I just can't put this on him right now; he's already worried enough and I need to be there for him, not the other way around.

Mattie,

I have been in your situation and I'm sorry to say that the judge didn't read a single thing. I had the call logs and a detailed calendar of the all the no-shows. I even had affidavits from my caregiver and family friends attesting to the fact that my ex simply failed to call or show up. It didn't work. These days, the courts lean towards parental rights, not child welfare.

What's worse, in the two cases where I tried to oppose more access time, I got costs awarded against me for having the nerve to try to limit a bio-parent's access time.

My advice is to a consent order agreeing to the EOW - and try to include fiveinall's idea about the notice call. A consent order will enable you to avoid the nightmare of court (and it is even more awful than you expect) and you'll avoid the risk of a costs award.

On the upside, my husband's ex was a constant no-show for years - until the kids reached age 12 and could be left alone (while she went out to party). In all likelihood, the same thing will happen in your case.

Sorry, I skipped all the other responses so if I am missing any new information not in the OP, that's why. (I am a little too tired to read them all tonight)

First, take a deep breath & try to not worry. I've been there with the nightmares & stress...

She can ask the court for whatever she wants, does not mean she will get it. I have seen court orders where there is a specific penalty for a parent that does not show up for a scheduled visit.. ie. if she gets EOW on the order but only shows up when she WANTS and this causes disruption to the child's life, she may have to pay a dollar amount penalty or the court may revoke her visitation. The court isn't going to care too much how it disrupts YOUR life, but if the child is anticipating visits that never materialize, the court will consider that in it's orders. She should not be making promises to the child and not show up or disappear... and you have a good argument for that kind of order since her history has been to do just that.

Second, is there an order for her to pay child support? She may want him held in contempt for not adhering to a non existent order for EOW, but he can also ask her to be held in contempt if she hasn't paid her financial obligation for the child.... and if there is an existing visitation order that she does not stick to, she is in contempt. What contempt of court means is that a court has made an order and the party is not complying with the courts order... and if the court orders her to see her child or pay support and she does not, that is contempt... just as much as it is contempt if the court orders the father to allow her to visit and he does not. It goes both ways.

But, remember most of all that the court will tune out parents that just seem to be fighting with each other. That only makes the court upset to see the child stuck in the middle of bickering parents... but if the issues are all about the child, the court is more likely to consider it. ie. instead of being angry at mom for not showing up and always ruining your plans and launching an attack on mom for her bad behavior... it might be a better tactic to say "Johnny loves his mommy and looks forward to seeing her and when he has a visit planned, he gets very excited & waits for her, looking out the window and when she calls to cancel or doesn't show up, he is devastated, goes to his room to cry, etc."

It also makes a difference whether you have an attorney or not and if your attorney is trained well in family law. Also, the Judge hearing the case should be very familiar with family law... you would think they are but that's not true. When I went through my custody case with my oldest son, we were in a courtroom with criminal cases being heard and there wasn't the kind of family court there is today(In CA) Your attorney should know if the Judge hearing the case is well versed in family law.. and if not, they can ask for a peremptory challenge or ask for a different Judge. I've seen people get raked over the coals by a Judge that may be biased... and then there are fair Judges. (There was a Judge giving custody to fathers more often than mothers and it turned out, he used to be a Father's rights attorney before he was a Judge... safe to say he was biased as other Judges couldn't see why he changed custody in some cases... there was no evidence to support his decisions) You can also sit in court watching other cases to see how the Judge rules in general... it gives you an idea when you see a case similar to yours, what might happen. Of course, when it comes to court.. nobody knows for sure how it will turn out.

Good luck.

stepmomofthree: That's discouraging. Unfortunately I don't think any agreement will be reached; she won't compromise on anything, ever. The only way she will agree is if she gets exactly what she wants- EOW, most of the summer, and with no notification times, early returns at whim, and make-up times at her convenience. When I first met DH I used to think he was exaggerating because I couldn't believe anyone would really behave in such a way - how naive I was back then.

imamommy: There's no child support at present (since SS17 lives with her). However, she has violated the order for several things, one of them being the fact that she hasn't kept the court updated on where she lives. This is amusing because when DH went to file his rebuttal, he was informed that her notification as to the time and date of the hearing she requested had been returned due to lack of correct address so we don't know if she'll even be there!

The judge is the same one that DH has been in front of twice before (it's in a rural area) and he is a family court judge. DH says that the judge was not impressed with BM the last two times so he is feeling optimistic. We had to scramble for an attorney because the previous one and a few others were not available on such short notice, but the one we got was one of the ones recommended by DH's previous attorney and does family law.

Thanks for the advice about focusing on SS. While logically a stressed out and unhappy Dad and SM shouldn't be best for SS either, I know that the court expects us to just deal with it. We're focusing on how bad it is for him when he does go up there; he's pretty much ignored except when she informs him that DH is a liar, I'm a *$, and he's a spoiled brat. If she were just some flighty scatterbrained airhead but treated him decently it would be annoying but tolerable. I'm anxious to get the letter from his counselor but that won't be until Monday. We're trying to avoid him having to be directly involved in any court proceedings at his age although it probably will end up coming to that at some point in the future, unfortunately. What a mess. I honestly don't think she's all there mentally; she really doesn't seem to understand at all what she's doing to her son by this - all DH hears about is her right to "have" him.

"I just don't understand it; how can she go to court and say "I don't even see him the once per month that I can, and so I should get more time to not see him?!"

I know it sounds crazy but it does happen that way sometimes. We had everything documented too and once per month still didn't fly, I think so little time is seen as not conducive to a close parent/child relationship, and the judge hopes that the non cust parent will follow through, at least that's the impression I got when we went. When is court?

I guess maybe they figure if she's offered enough opportunities to see him she might actually show up for some of them. DH has spent the past six years trying to promote a parent/child relationship (offering suggestions for inexpensive things that he likes to do, what his favorite games are, etc.) and up until this January, he was allowing her to see him pretty much at her convenience and it still wasn't changing anything. It would be nice if there could be some kind of "OK, you've stuck with visitations for six months so now you can have more" thing.

Court is soon. I don't want to say exactly because we still don't know if she's bothered to change the address with court so last we knew she hadn't been notified of it. :) (I realize I'm paranoid thinking anyone could stumble across the date on the entire internet but you never know!) I will update what happens.

DH rented comedies last night and after SS went to bed we had a "No worrying about court or BM" night, which really helped a lot.

I'll be praying for you all. As your SS gets older, he really is going to need a set schedule, and not have the burden of wondering if she is going to show or call or can he make plans etc... it's not fair to him. Just remember, if she does get EOW her history has shown that she isn't going to stick to seeing him, it will fizzle i'm sure.And I would be shocked if you didn't get a confirmation clause awarded in there with the history you all have. Unfortunatly some people want things because "it's my right" with no intention of following through. I hope court is pretty soon, so you all can move on, it really is paralyzing to have to go to court and lay it all out. This will pass though, I promise, I made it through and so will you!
My philosophy on here has been to not post anything I wouldn't directly say to BM'S face, it helps me think a bit before i type lol so I get you there! Good luck!!!

I'm so disheartened right now. We went to court and the judge really seemed like he just couldn't be bothered. The whole thing took about 15 minutes; he basically said he was sending it off to mediation so we'll be right back where DH started six years ago. We had a letter from SS's counselor stating that she felt SS really needed stability and consistency (and recommending the once a month visitation); judge apparently totally ignored that and decided that temporarily he'd just split the difference at once every three weeks, starting this Friday.

SS was invited to a birthday party of one of his best friends, followed by a sleepover there, weeks ago. It is this Saturday, and he's been talking about it non-stop. Now we had to come home to tell him that he can't go because the judge decided that he has to go to his mother's. She lives 1 1/2 hours from here so she's not going to take him there. To make matters even more frustrating, the judge decided to threaten BM that if she doesn't show up for every visitation she could lose them - first of all that's crap! She doesn't show up now and he just gave her (temporarily) more of them. Second of all that means that even if she had felt inclined to be reasonable and try to allow SS to go to his party and switch weekends that she cannot do that now or she'll be in contempt.

I'm so discouraged. I really felt that, even if the judge didn't agree with us, that he was going to try to do what he felt was best for SS. It's two #*&$ing days before a holiday weekend - and he just completely changed SS's plans, in complete disregard of the counselor's recommendation for stability. I spent half an hour holding a sobbing heartbroken eight year old on my lap, and then we spent the rest of the night trying to cheer him up with plans for things we'll do Monday. I have no idea why I think he should believe that he can ever look forward to plans actually happening.

I'm sorry for the long post. I just don't know why this little boy who never did anything wrong keeps having to be treated like this. It's just horrible.

mattie gt

I totally understand how you feel ~ disheartened.

Don't. What the Judge did was the RIGHT thing. I know it doesn't seem like it, but he is setting the stage for act 2. He knows that she isn't seeing the kids. He is going to give her EVERY opportunity to do what she should already be doing, which unfortunately for you guys.. means she will get more visitation. AND he warned her that if she does not use the time he is giving her, she will lose it.

My son's father was 'warned' and when he didn't show up to get my son after the Judge gave him specific instructions... I went back to court. Well, he didn't show up in court to explain himself & why he hadn't done what he was supposed to and the Judge issued an order that he gets NO VISITATION. The Judge then said if he wants to see his son again, he can file a motion and bring me back to court but he was not going to leave my son in limbo, waiting for him to show or not... and guess what? He never filed a motion to see my son. But, it did take several hearings & seemed like the court was ignoring me as I insisted that he isn't going to follow any of the orders, but the court won't flagrantly yank a parent's visitation or parental rights... it takes time because the court will give them all the opportunity to step up. Then when they don't and the court rules against them, there is something to back up the court that they did the right thing.

I'm sorry your SS will miss his party. and it will be even more heartbreaking if his mother lets him down again.

"I spent half an hour holding a sobbing brokenhearted eight year old on my lap,"

At first, this sounds so sad & heartbreaking... but it could also be that by holding him on your lap for that long, consoling him.. lends itself to the child spending that long crying over it. Not to minimize, but it's just a birthday party and the way in which you or your DH handle it, could be construed as alienating... if you (even subconsciously) comfort him so that he feels that his mother is ruining his weekend or that it is in some way a loss for him that he HAS to go with his mother. However, I would be torn between saying something to get him excited to see his mother, but then if she lets him down again... that would be devastating. That is a hard call. But, I am only mentioning about alienation because it can be so subtle and done unintentionally.

what a tough situation, I am sorry, mattie. I hear your pain.

But I do hear what imamommy saying, about looking like it is unintentional alienating,

saying before he goes to the mother that when he comes back he will have fun with dad on Monday (if he goes to the mother he will be thinking of fun with dad), and comforting him over the sad fact of going to the mother, I know it is about birthday not the mother but one could see it this way. You don't know what kids remember years later, they remember weird stuff.

Mom probably wouldn't pick him up anyways.

When I first got divorced my ex did weird things, like instead of picking her up on Friday night when expected he would come at 8AM on Saturday when she still sleeps or changed plans or all of a sudden wanted to see her 4 times a week but then won't see her for 3 weeks. I honestly just played around it, lied to DD, came up with excuses, didn't go to court though because it was not that bad, long story, it was years ago, she was 4 then, and is 22 now.

After prolonged conversation with ex over the first few years and after I guess he matured and became better parent, it changed. he is still a poor planner, but he is certainly a good father. But what is more important DD has good relationship with her dad and dad's family, and sees him well more than me:(, lives closer to him now :( LOL

Anyways i had an option unintentionally alienating DD but something inside me told me to take a different journey. Frankly I did a lot to foster DD's relationship with her dad by putting up with Sh&&t. Honestly sometimes it floods over me that I did put up with too much, sometimes I remember things and feel like crying, but I did it for DD.

Thanks for your kind words. I will have to pay close attention to any unintentional alienating by either myself or DH. We did make sure that he knew that it was the judge's decision and not his BM's so that he wouldn't blame her for missing the party. We usually try very hard to remain outside any discussions of what may or may not happen at BM's (we say a lot of "That would be nice!" and "I hope not" in response to his speculations.) SS had said yesterday that now he would not do anything this weekend because BM would ignore him again or say mean things to him - he is quite likely correct, if she even sees him - and that is when we said about doing something fun on Monday. It actually was our intention of giving him something to look forward to but I didn't even think about that maybe hurting any chances of his having a decent weekend.

I don't think SS was so upset about missing the party per se, but that he has, yet again, had plans changed at the last minute. He's in counseling, and we have been trying very hard to be as consistent as possible because he really does much better with a very regular schedule of everything (bedtime, dinnertime, bath nights, homework time, family night, etc.). I think part is his nature anyway, but that most is that his life so far has consisted of going from here to BM's, apparently at random, with different rules, etc. That is why I am so frustrated; I feel like months of progress have been destroyed by the judge.

finedreams, up until January DH had pretty much allowed BM to see him whenever she wanted because it was so infrequently. But that is when the school nurse recommended counseling, and the counselor has said that he needs a regular, consistent schedule. We knew the random visitation was really hard on us but hadn't realized how badly it was affecting SS.

At least it's a set schedule for now. Other than the change of weekend plans it's a tolerable compromise for now, I guess.

mattie,
I myself am a planner and absolutely hate not having set plans. It effects me big time, so no wonder it effects a young child...Well I still wonder if she'll pick him up...

finedreams, I'm with you! I start trying to plan every possible contingency (if we go here Saturday instead of Sunday then next Tuesday I'll get my hair cut instead of Wednesday) and exhaust myself.

I think SS used to cope with it better because when he was younger, most of his activities revolved around family, so we almost always could reschedule our plans for a different weekend. Now that he's older and some of his activities are on set dates (scout trips, parties, invitations for trips on certain weekends) if plans are changed that opportunity is just gone and it's really starting to upset him, I think.

I think she'll be too afraid of the judge to no-show. I'm betting on a late pickup, and either a very early or late dropoff. I guess time will tell.

Sometimes I think i could be more flexible because I get upset if plans don't work. I am going to be with DD22 for 2 weeks in July and I already know what we are going to do every day pretty much, how sick is that. LOL

Well, she picked him up.

For no apparent reason the judge had decided to change the transportation arrangements from meeting halfway to each one driving the full way one time (I've no idea why, it was one of the few things that they both did agree on). So BM texted DH during the afternoon to say that she wanted to stick with the old arrangement. DH responded that he was going strictly by the court order.

DH got stuck at work with an emergency, so I was home with SS, trying to get him ready to go. Five minutes before pickup time, the doorbell rings - they have arrived. Fine; it's a long drive and they're a bit early. What was not fine was that BM had brought along a relative, who, with her boyfriend, proceeded to open the door and walk into our house! Now I'm standing in the hallway blocking further entrance, repeating over and over "He's almost ready, he'll be out in a minute" as relative is trying to talk past me to SS and walk around me into our living room! ARGH! I kept thinking "You've got to be kidding me!" but didn't want to say anything in front of SS, of course.

So I was feeling really discouraged; between her wanting to change the temporary court order two days after it was put into place because she took DH to court, and having random people walking into my house, I was not thinking that things were going to particularly be much different than before. But DH and I spent a nice day together yesterday; I'm feeling better. DH is going to ask for (and probably get, I see no reason why not) a schedule that is so asininely detailed and explicit that there can be no room for uncertainty. It's sad that that's what has to happen but we think it's for the best.

--"a schedule that is so asininely detailed and explicit that there can be no room for uncertainty."--

Sometimes that is the only way to be certain everybody follow the order and understands each and every part of it.

I really thought when I saw a new posting here this morning that it was going to say 'BM did not show'. I hope he has a good weekend.

I see why the parade into your home uninvited startled and annoyed you. I could likely manage to strike it up three ways 1) no manners but meant no harm, 2) relative was just excited to see SS, where he lives and never gave a thought it was rude even though it was, and 3) it was five minutes and annoyed as it makes me, I could suffer the intrusion for a few minutes as long as it was not a confrontational entrance and exit.

With the new 'come all the way', judge may be deliberately testing BM on how serious she actually is in obtaining her time in his weighting any future court actions. She did not show with a halfway meeting, odds grow these visits may grow even less if she has to put herself out even farther.

"asininely detailed and explicit that there can be no room for uncertainty"...LOL, I going to remember that line for next silly grievance hearing prep work .

"So BM texted DH during the afternoon to say that she wanted to stick with the old arrangement. DH responded that he was going strictly by the court order."

lol, when my DH and his ex had concluded their custody trial, we were still in the parking lot of the courthouse, not half an hour after the Judge made his ruling about when BM's weekend would begin... and BM called us & asked to change it. It never ceases to amaze me when people stand in court, ask for an order, and as soon as they get an order, decide they don't like it, it's not the order they wanted or thought they'd get or it's just not convenient for them so they want to do it their way.

Good for your DH that he sticks to the order. Sometimes when you budge an inch, they shove you a mile. Good luck & hope your SS has a good weekend.

BTW, I used to do the meeting halfway. It works if both parties are cooperative & considerate. It was a pain for me because he would show up late or not at all... not call & I'm sitting there in a parking lot wondering if he's going to show... and if you have a problem, then the law enforcement agency that gets called is one that isn't in either jurisdiction. With SD, I prefer each of us driving all the way but it hasn't kept BM from taking SD over to her BF's parents house & making us wait in her driveway for half an hour or longer while she gets her ready or gets her back home so we can pick her up.

I think it's very ballsy to walk into anyone's home uninvited... and maybe they were trying to provoke or intimidate you... especially if they knew your DH wasn't home. Best thing is to not react & next time, don't open the door until SS is ready to walk out. Look out the window & if they are at the door, pleasantly tell them through the locked door or maybe a nearby open window.. "SS will be right out!" Or maybe have him ready & playing in the front yard so there is no need to go in the house. That is very rude & IMO, a violation of your privacy. But, making an issue of it may be what she wants, so just let it go and try to avoid it happening again.

these people are nuts walking like this in your house! but I am glad she picked SS up. Hope he is a having a good time.

Apparently BM misunderstood the order and thought that she was supposed to drive all the way, both times! No wonder she wanted to go back to the old meeting in the middle.

SS is OK. Apparently he was stuck in front of a TV again for most of the weekend. On the other hand no one was particularly nasty or mean to him either, so he views the weekend as having been tolerable if not what he'd been hoping for (he hopes that he is going to get taken to the playground or they'll play a board game or something; it almost never happens).

The funny thing about Friday is I thought about locking the door but then decided that I was being completely paranoid! I'd been planning to be on the porch waiting but SS was running slow. Oh well, next time the door remains locked. :)