--"But no one here seems to think she's actually going to settle down, not even if eventually she gets married and has more children? Or sees that no matter what she does she's never going to get a response out of me? Should I try to talk to her myself?"--

While she might 'settle' a bit, damage is already done. She's made up her mind that she dislikes YOU. Does not matter that you perhaps have done nothing to warrant her dislike. You'll always be the 'bad guy' to her because she decided early on that YOU are part of whatever troubles her. Yeah, she might marry, be happy with someone and mellow out a bit in her tirades, but she won't ever forgive YOU for what she'll view as the enemy. Who knows in her mind why she 'hates' you...she could imagine it's anything she wants whether true or not (you stole her man, her life would be happy and he'd come back to her if not for you). It could be anything, she's full of hurt and anger (and perhaps slightly whacky)and you are the target she intends to release all her focus on.

Should you call and try to talk to her? No. Right now all that would do is toss fuel on her fire. You've really given little on the court actions, but courtrooms are a pretty routine thing when child issues have to be settled. The lady had a child, she needed to establish the father and then all the CS concerns, visitation and custody agreements blah blah. That part is all pretty normal.

One thing though that stuck out to me in your last postings here was --"We all make mistakes and it sucks that in this one he's going to have to deal with it forever, but should he punished and be single because of it?"-- does your BF really look at this child as a 'mistake'? One he is going to have to suffer through forever? If that is truly his attitude towards this child, yep, it's going to be a long long road the next 17 yrs. Or is that only how YOU look at the situation?

If it's you that wants a hassle carefree relationship with what you view as 'the perfect guy if only not for this mistake of a kid of his'...then we're back to 'hit the road now, lady'. You picked a guy who has a child. You knew him a mere week when you found out he could have a child and that this meant he could be wrapped up with this woman for years. You knew there would be courtroom issues and that odds could attach this woman through some hectic times.

Again, you knew the guy a week but decided to plunge ahead and continue seeing him and let yourself fall in love with him. You actually have yourself to blame as much as anyone else as to the road you picked. You knew exactly what and how this woman was going to be then but you decided she'd 'just get over it' and change. Now you're in even deeper and you're still sitting there thinking 'my life would be fine if not for this woman'. This woman was there going in, she's there now, she's not going anywhere...just what do you think you could say to her to make 'her change'?

"Again, you knew the guy a week but decided to plunge ahead and continue seeing him and let yourself fall in love with him. You actually have yourself to blame as much as anyone else as to the road you picked."

To be fair here, I don't think a lot of us realize what we're getting into with these types of relationships.
Thank goodness we have forums like this to help us out, but I'm sure a lot of us didn't think things would be that bad, or thought they'd get better.

"does your BF really look at this child as a 'mistake'?"
I don't think she means the child is a mistake, I think she means BF getting involved with the BM was the mistake.
She did say - "I personally don't think I'd have any issues if the BM wasn't such a lunatic."

Bonnie -from what I've read on here and in my own personal experience, what I've found it ALL comes down to is your BF, how HE handles the BM. If he allows her to cause drama, it's going to be a nightmare. You don't have to deal with BM at all, this is his battle. Staying out of it might help you "cope" with some of the drama.

Pseudo - Yes, he does do all those things, he's been great with standing by me and putting my feelings before the BM's and asking for advice on how to raise his son. We do a lot together and when his son is over it is all about the three of us. He does what he can to make sure that I never feel out of place and for that I am extremely grateful. As for the BM's using their children as tools and they do not care how it affects them, I agree and think it's pathetic. If we can care about their children then why can't they look out for their best interest and why is it more important to be spiteful? It's pathetic!

Justme - Yes, I was only talking to my bf a mere week before we found of out the possibly news, but you know that saying that when you meet the right one you just know? I just knew right away he was the one. At the time, like I had mentioned before, BM had claimed she was pregnant about 6 times that year all with different men and all of which were lies, so not only did we not think he was the father (since 3 other men had said they could be) we also thought it was a lie since she had lied about it so many other times before. Also, during that 9 month period, she claimed she had lost the baby about 4 times just so my BF would contact her. So at that point I honestly thought "who would be so sick to fake a mis-carriage" and yea I definitely didn't think I'd have anything to worry about. I thought at that point there was a one in a million chance that A. it was true and B. it was his. So yes, I'll take full responsibility that at this point I've dug myself deeper and I chose this path.

As for the mistake part, was his son planned - NO, did he want a child now or with her - NO, would he take that night back if he could - ABSOLUTELY. Does this mean he looks at him as a mistake? Not necessarily. He looks at him as his responsibility and he will be there for him and be the dad he needs to be for this innocent child because he did not ask for any of this. My BF says that he cannot wait to have a child that he wanted from day one and who can blame him? The gift of having a child with the person you love and sharing that special moment together did not happen for him - instead he has a child with a psycho. This does not mean he's not there for his son or will not do what he has to do to be there for him though.

What would I say to her? I'd say something to re-assure her that I'm not trying to taker her child away or be his mother. When I want to be a mother I will have a child of my own and I don't need to trap a man for that. I believe she thinks that's what I'm trying to do and that's really the only point I'd try to make clear to her. I did try this when he was first born but she did not listen to anything I had to say and only wanted to sit there and bash me and BF some more so I walked away.

Amber-You pretty much just took the words out of my mouth as you will see from my prior post!

I absolutely agree that this should all be between my BF and his BM and he tries to get her to cool it as much as he can but I mean no one really can control a crazy and so he can only do so much to keep her mouth shut. I wish she could keep it between the two of them because unless I was a threat to their son, or something along those lines (which I'm not), I really shouldn't be involved with the drama THEY have.

Yeah - looks like we cross posted. It sounds like your BF is a decent fellow, just got mixed up with the wrong female. If you and him are on the right page with parenting and BM, things might be okay. But as someone just recently reminded me, you can't foresee the future, so who knows how things will turn out. BM might be a psycho the rest of her life, she might mellow out. You just never know, but you need to prepare yourself in case things don't come up all roses.

I'm going to give you some tips I read on another forum.

You said you tried to talk to BM but that didn't work. She doesn't want to hear what you have to say, so take yourself out of it.

All communication should go between BF and BM. If BM calls you, hang up the phone.
Block her texts or change your phone number.
And if BF prefers, he can communicate with her only through email.
BF should handle all pick up and drop offs by himself.

Hopefully by the time the son gets to school BM may have mellowed down, but if not you may have to refrain from attending any school functions, for the sake of your sanity.
Yeah, it sucks, but if that's what you have to do to keep the peace I think it's worth it.

Good luck.

"but I truly love my boyfriend and if what everyone here is saying came true everyone that had a baby with someone from a prior relationship would be single."

Another young girl falling for the fairy tale folks... "But I luuuuv him!" (as if love truly conquered all -- it doesn't.)

It's NOT everyone marrying someone with kids is in this position.
It's only everyone marrying someone with kids with a psycho who is in this position.

Psychos get worse, not better. Psychos kill relationships and damage kids. It's the PSYCHO aspect that is the relationship killer...

--"The gift of having a child with the person you love and sharing that special moment together did not happen for him - instead he has a child with a psycho."--

You do realize, right, that BF is not a 'victim' here? If the woman had six claims of being pregnant in one year with six different men, BF was playing dangerous games in his choice of sexual partners. That he has a child with this woman now is no one's fault but his own. As he was not selective as to who he slept with, it's too late now to think of this child's beginnings as a 'mistake' that he can make all better. Obviously he knew the chance was there before he slept with her. please stop thinking of BF as 'the guy who got trapped' or 'the guy who had his chance of having his first child with a woman he loved snatched away from him'...because that is a young lady's naivete writing. Truth is, the guy took a gamble and lost...now he is going to have both the child and this woman in his life for the next 18 plus years and the son for hopefully many more years than that.

Yes, BF needs to be the one to deal with the bio mom. No need for you to talk to her or see her. If she's running around town spreading rumors and evil about you, so what? if it is all untrue, why worry about what this woman thinks and/or says about you? Your real friends know you and know the rumors and falsehoods are just that, rumors and falsehoods. If she is seriouisly stalking and/or harrassing you, you could see about a restraining order, but you're not giving us the impression that is what she is doing...she just dislikes you and says unkind/untrue things to her circle of listeners. If you're staying you're going to have to toughen up your shoulders to that behavior.

If she is in a courtroom spreading falsehoods to a judge about BF/you that is for the lawyers to handle.

BF and Mom have a parenting plan in place I assume. If not BF needs to get a court ordered parenting agreement in place and it needs to be as exact and specific as need be. If this woman is nuts, don't take anything for granted, get it spelled out in writing in the plan. Stick to the plan and have as little contact with this woman as possible. A good plan can even spell out how BF and BM must communicate.

You speaking to Mom is not going to go well. Anyone who states six pregnancies in a year and claims numerous false miscarriages blah blah is not a woman who is going to care what you have to say nor be pleased you tried to stick yourself in the middle ( which is how she likely could view any attempt of you trying to talk to her). Face it, to her you are just the lady that is BF's GF, you have no claims to the guy yet and absolutely no claims to the child...so why bother trying to tell her you aren't trying to replace her as the child's mother? Why talk to her at all?

Are you and BF living together? You've not yet mentioned you are or even that BF and you are in a committed relationship with any plans as a long term relationship. Without offending, can I ask how old BF, Mom and you are? I'm guessing you all are in your fairly early twenties and perhaps even all still working at building careers? Maybe not, but your posting just remind me of several young ladies who have posted here in the past with very similar stories as yours. No offense meant, I'm just merely asking.

Well we did not find out about all these other "pregnancies" until after the fact when everyone else in the town pretty much found and and told us. So in all fairness to my BF he didnt really know how nuts she was at the time, otherwise I'm sure he would have re-considered. Also, the child was conceived when they were both hammered and he went out the next morning to get the morning after pill which she admitted she purposely did not take because she wanted to get pregnant. So I'm sorry but no matter what I'm always going to think he was the victim in this situation because he went out and bought the morning after pill and she purposely did not take it.

Yes, my BF and I have been living together for a year and half now and we do plan on getting married. He owns his own business and I am an accountant. BM, BF and I are all 26-27 years old, no offense taken I understand getting a good background goes along with giving good advice!

As for just spreading rumors I'm not worried about it because everyone knows she's a nut job, she stalks our house and drives past it when were not home, she bragged how she knew where we lived to people before we even moved in. She's currently trying to get it court ordered that she can take a walk thru our house and I can't be there and when she does pick ups and drop offs that I cannot be outside. She also says on court orders that BF prioritizes me over his son, She's trying to get me involved by creating this drama in every which way and now I feel even violating my rights by not letting me in my own house when she wants to take a walk thru.

Honestly, I just want her to grow up and stop making this about her and start making it about her son, I think if she can change in that way it will help the situation tremendously.

BF can seek pick-up/drop offs to be neutral place. They don't have to occur at your home at all. Some people make the exchanges at places like parking lots.

If the exchanges continue at your home, do yourself a favor and stay inside. The less you see her the less she can annoy you. BF can take son out. Not saying if you happen to be out and she makes her appearance 20 minutes earlier than planned that you should dash towards your door though. She really does not like you!. It might be best to think about the neutral place settings for exchanges.

So what's makes her think she can be granted a walk-through? If there is any question as to where/how the child is sleeping, being taken care of blah blah, DCFS can check it out for her. She has no business in BF's home whether you live in the home or not.

These little issues, and yes they are little issues even though they seem huge going through them, can all be in parenting plan. Place of exchange, method of exchange, child has individual bedroom and bed blah blah. Basically anything she's griping about can be cleared up by having detailed agreements both parents have signed.

If she gets to stalking you personally, and you feel physically threatened by her, don't hesitate to look into a RO. Driving past your home seems harmless enough. Silly, but harmless...but if there is any way she is actually plotting to harm you in anyway, best stop her in her tracks. Without a RO there is nothing you can do if she chooses to 'happen to drive down the street you live on'.

Actually you staying inside takes away any chance she just might pop outta that car and attack you. Except no one likes being told how to behave in their own home, any reason you need to be out there when she comes? Neutral parking lot, police station, something along those lines are actually writen into parenting plan agreements.

Except she sounds controling, does she have any reason to believe a walk through of your home is necessary? I'm going to assume she does not actually believe you've got the kid sleeping in a closet or something. What is she stating in her attempt to gain entry into your home?

Bonnie, I suggest you google "personality disorder" and see if any of the information sounds like BM. If it does, if BM seems to display the symptoms of having a personality disorder, I'd strongly suggest that you give very serious thought as to your future with BF. If that is the case, there is almost no chance of BM changing or making anything about her son - anything you or I might think of as logical or rational just wouldn't apply to her thought processes, and vice versa.

Of course, neither you nor I can diagnose BM - but if that is the case your BF and his son are not going to emerge unscathed on the other side of age eighteen. This ship may be heading into a storm that you probably cannot even begin to imagine, and BF and his son will have no choice but to ride it out and hope for as little damage as possible (and there will be damage, if BM is PD.)

Sweeby is exactly right; psychos get worse, not better. I know you don't want to abandon your BF and his son, but if BM is that crazy, there is nothing that you, BF, or the child can do to change that. If BM is that crazy it will get worse.

My DH has had primary custody of SS9 for almost all of his life; he only sees BM for weekends every several weeks. DH has sole legal custody. We're hours away from her. And she still inflicts an unbelievable amount of damage on SS, and by extension, on us. We never feel completely safe and secure. There is always a threat that BM is going to go completely off the deep end; some times are better than others, but it's always there.

In your situation, the only reason I can think of for which you should stay with your BF is if you have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that if you leave him you will bitterly regret it for the rest of your life. Otherwise, get the hell out while you can. It's not going to get better for at least the next seventeen years. It's going to get worse. And if I sound dramatic, that is exactly my intention. You cannot possibly understand how bad it can get. (Are you prepared to have BM start accusing you of molesting the child? It's not an uncommon tactic for crazy BM's....)

Ok... A BM here. A former psychotic, personality disorder symptom, the woman who trapped the father of my child, refused an abortion because I wanted THIS baby, control freak, new babydaddygirlfriend stalker, Ex wife of the most amazing 'last man' on earth.... I'm here to share some advice. Take it or leave it.

1. Do not communicate with Mom. Don't answer the phone when she calls, do not send emails from you or in your BF's name, do not send texts or respond to texts. Stay out of it.
2. Stay in the house during drop off and pick up. Do not ride in the car, do not show yourself in any form during these times. Dad is a big boy and he can pick up his kid on his own. If he needs 'protection' from crazy psycho, he can take a friend.
3. Do not allow the child to refer to you as MOM. You are not his mom, he has a mom. You can be Ms. Bonnie or BonBon or Cupcake but not mom.
4. Let Dad be Dad. Dad needs to be the caregiver for his son when he has his child. If Dad isn't available, at this age, kiddo should stay with mom.
5. Change your way of thinking. Take the words lunatic, psycho, crazy B!$%# out of your vocabulary when you 'think' of this child's mother. Trust me it will do more for you than you think.
6. Research personality disorder. Learn how to deal with someone in your life that has a personality disorder. It will help you to 'understand' their thinking and how to control yours. More than likely Mom does not have PD. She is young, has a baby with a man that despises her and she has to share her new baby with another woman.

It's especially hard for a mom to deal with sharing their child especially in the beginning. You have no kids right? From day one of this babies life, she has shared him with another woman who plays mom when she isn't around. Although she needs to get over it eventually, it's not easy of this other 'mom' figure is flung in her face constantly. It actually may take her some therapy to get over it. The fear of your child (especially) so young, growing attached to another mom, is very real and is very much a catalyst to an already stressful situation.

You have to understand that although you may not intend to be, you are also a catalyst in this situation and just your mere presence in her child's life is upsetting, unsettling, frustrating, hurtful, maddening (and it's really not your fault) it's the nature of the beast.

I spent two years fighting, crying, controlling, demanding, fighting some more because I was scared. I was terrified my daughter would not love me. I was scared she would not remember that I am her mom. I worried that all that I had sacrificed for her would be for nothing because daddy had moved on and had more, had better, was more stable. It took therapy. I realized that I control my relationship with my daughter. I am the only person that can alienate my child from me. I changed my way of thinking, I got the help I needed. I moved on. I met a new man. I got married. I had another child. I calmed down somewhere between moved on and had another child. Not sure when. Unfortunately for me, the stepmom only got worse. My behavior 6 years ago, has scarred my future and I will never be free from the punishment. I have changed. I am older. I NOT the same person I was 6 years ago. But I will forever wear the label crazy ex wife and I will forever have trouble with my ex and his wife because she wants to constantly fight me and engage me in drama. I do not engage. I do not respond. I thought not responding would make her go away, I was wrong ... It made it worse for me. That may not be how it is for you. You may have a different experience.

I urge you to seriously take my advice. Dont engage with this person. Talking to her will not make it better. Standing your ground, although ok in your own home, but if you are not engaging then there is nothing to stand up to. See what I mean?

A BM CAN get better to deal with. I think I am easy to deal with now except the other side has changed and not for the better. I was wrong to behave the way that I did in the beginning of my divorce. I am very embarrassed by it. But I can't change it. Maybe this mom will grow up and realize that she acted badly and she will WANT to change. Maybe she won't. I honestly think the most hurtful thing a person can say is that a child was a mistake. I was in a relationship with my ex and I got pregnant. Not on my own but his story would make you believe that I trapped him and then tricked him into marrying me and then forced him against his will to be married to me for 5 years.... Come on!! Really?? He is just as responsible for this child as she is. And it doesn't matter if he bought her the morning after pill or not. The beautiful thing about motherhood is it's HER body and he should have thought of the 'before the morning condom'. You can't continue to blame her for not aborting her child. If he feels so strongly on that then maybe he should stop seeing his child. Pretend it was aborted and walk away. I promise if he and you continue with your negative thoughts about his conception and about his mother, they will rub off on him and it will hurt him more than anything else in this world. And boys love their momma's. So... Change your way of thinking, disengage, stay home/inside, stop picking up the phone, and just love your man, be his support but don't fight his battles and don't play mom to his kid --- maybe even consider therapy for yourself. I live by therapy. It's the best thing I could have ever done for myself and for the people in my life.

--" Come on!! Really?? He is just as responsible for this child as she is. And it doesn't matter if he bought her the morning after pill or not. The beautiful thing about motherhood is it's HER body and he should have thought of the 'before the morning condom'. You can't continue to blame her for not aborting her child."--

Bingo! It does not get anymore truthful and clear than that. This guy is not a 'victim' here. This was his girlfriend (not even a one-night stand), he carelessly produced a child due to his lack of being a responsible sexual partner with his girlfriend. He does not have a child because he was 'hammered' and some nut tricked him...stop making excuses for the guy's role in this. If anyone 'stole' anything from this guy, it was the guy himself. While he may not 'like' the woman who bore his child now, he had no problems with this woman while he whas dating and bedding her knowing full well how the human body reproduces.

It really wears old on this forum when the new girlfriend buys hook line and sinker into 'oh poor poor BF, look what that evil woman did to him'.

As to the rest of MyFam's post to you, she wrote that from the heart, she's speaking from self experience and she has passed on some very sound well thought out advice. The every first thing you need to do if you stay is change your attitude in your thinking as to the beginnings of this child and the second thing is to realize your own actions and/or lack of reactions as you go through this can play a big part in the outcome as to how successfully this father and mother coparent this child.

OK, maybe your all right, maybe I'm not as strong as I thought I was and maybe I am making excuses for my BF and my thoughts of the BM and the way he was conceived HAVE tainted my opinion. This is why I needed advice because I don't know all the answers and I've never been in this situation before. So thank you.

Myfam...I truly want to thank you for being so open and honest. I was almost speechless after reading your post because it's the first time in 2 years I really heard any advice coming from a BM - or former ex. I will absolutely consider all that you wrote. Thank you.

There seems to be two schools of thought here, both formed around the core idea of minimize the damage.

One school of thought is about ow to live with a 'difficult' babymamma in your life.

The other is urging you to bail out of this lifelong drama because we all (including you) know it to be a recipe for disaster.

Do you own real estate?

In my view, deciding to get married is like buying a house. (Only a bit easier to 'undo', truth be told...)

Ever heard of a 'money pit'? It's the kind of house that has a lot of surface appeal, but some fatal underlying flaw that will cause you nothing but heartache. Maybe it's an unstable foundation. A low-lying lot that is subject to frequent flooding. A location beside the train tracks or fault line. The neighbors from He!! that make living there a nightmare.

Whatever it is -- You can't fix it and owning that house will bring you all kinds of pain, leaving you much, much worse off for having fallen for the charm.

Don't buy the money pit!

Until you say "I do" or get pregnant, you have all your options open. You can still have a wonderful life with a great guy with *minimal* baggage! At 26-27 years old, you've got LOTS of options. It's a buyer's market for you right now.

Just one last-gasp effort...

Myfam, I hope that you did not take offense to what I posted. I admire you very much and, while you may not have been perfect, I firmly believe that the crazy SM would have found some way to disparage you anyway - Look! Myfam is so perfect! Obviously she's a Stepford Wife; she's supressing her true emotions and is gonna snap one day.

Bonnie, I would also like to comment on the "BM is the town whore and X number of other men could be the father" issue. Really? I can imagine, in theory, maybe one man having a discreet and very personal talk with your BF, explaining that he too thought that he was BM's BF and the putative father, and perhaps a DNA test for both of them might be in order - but all these different guys sitting around boasting "Oh yeah, well, I had her too!" smacks of junior high school. You are upset that BM is spreading rumors about you? Unless you were in the room watching her, telling others that BM was promiscuous is spreading rumors about her.

Even if all that is true, it is absolutely, completely, 100% irrelevant at this point in time. DH tells me sometimes about things that BM did while they were married. To me, the only relevance that any of it has to me is how her actions, as perceived by DH, might affect his behavior now. Otherwise, it's really none of my business. Certainly I would be unhappy if BM were to sit around digging into my past - what she may or may not have done years ago, before I even knew DH, is really none of my concern and none of my business.

I guess my question is if BM is doing anything now that would cause concern vis a vis raising the child?

Sweeby, I loved the "neighbors from h*ll" part. That fits an ex the best. I mean, they are there & can't change or control them. Can't get away from them without giving up the dream house (hubby). I'm gonna steal that to use when I think of BM or even MIL.

Ladies, please don't take offense at this, but I have to ask this question.

You all are telling Bonnie to leave this relationship since it is already obvious that BM is crazy, if not psycho and she has no ties to this guy (ie. children with him).

Many of you are SMs. If someone told you when you first met your husband all what you are are telling her, would you have done the same thing? Would you have turned your back on a guy you fell in love with? Would you do it all over, or do you wish you had moved on to someone with less "baggage"?

Again, I don't mean any offense, I'm just trying to understand why some of you are so adamant that she leave this guy and not try to make it work. Like she said before, if no one ever got involved with someone that had a child from a previous relationship, we would all be single. I know her BF made a poor choice by getting involved with this girl, but we all make mistakes, does he have to pay for this one by staying single the rest of his life? Because you're saying to her and any girl that this guy gets involved with that they should leave him alone.

I see the same thing said over and over on this forum: "Leave this guy alone and find someone with less baggage/issues/no crazy BM".

If you had to do it over again, do any of you wish someone had told you to leave your man alone?

No Mattie you didn't offend me. I wanted to offer hope and some advice from a BM. Things can get better but they also can get worse. They also can just stay the same.

I was accused on many occasions that I had PD. It was thrown in my face. SM and I were the ones fighting all the time. I was fighting for the man and the child. She was fighting for the man and then realized the best thing to fight for to get his attention was to start fighting for the child. I sought therapy bc Sm had me believing I was crazy. I felt crazy. She did things that purposely set me off. Knowing it would send me into a jealous rage. She would email me a list of activities that she did with MY daughter. For example: last night while littlemyfam was completing her homework, I prepared (yes from scratch) a very healthy, well balanced meal for the family. The girls played so well after bathtime and very much enjoyed playing barbies and reading to each other. After dinner was over, we all retired to the family room where we played a game of scrabble. The girls took turns nicely. Littlemyfam brushed her teeth while I combed out and blow dried her hair. I tucked her in and read her two good night stories. Your little angel was fast asleep in no time. It amazes me how well she does in my home. I'm so glad she feels safe and loved while with me. This morning, she woke up in a fantastic mood and I prepared for her oatmeal and she had an apple on the way to school. I can't seem to get her to like milk without chocolate or strawberry syrup. This is very high in calories and sugar content. You should really consider discontinuing allowing her to have the syrup. At my home, she will only be drinking white milk so it would help if you could take those steps to prepare her for the change. If you cut down on the sugar drinks, she might not have so many dental problems. She is so young to have already had so much dental work. My daughter has never had any cavities and i attribute that to my diligence in making sure she does not consume high amounts of sugar drinks. Just a thought? Oh and by the way, I noticed that the pajamas that she has at her dad's are a tad bit small so I purchased for her three new pairs of pajamas from gymboree this weekend. She was very excited about her new pajamas. She says that you don't buy her these types of things. It's so nice for kids to receive a surprise once in a while. 'exmyfam' pays you a large amount of child support and this is the type of things it is used for. If you are having financial difficulties, it might be a good idea for you to trade in your expensive SUV and purchase a smaller more economical vehicle that you can better afford on a single mom's income. I know how tough it must be for you. Having to move in with your parents... I'm sure it's very crowded and stressful. If you ever need for 'littlemyfam' to stay with us for a while, we would love to have her. It would be so much fun to have the girls together for more than just the two to three days. They get along so well. Of course, since your income is much lower than 'exmyfam's' your child support would be much lower which we would use to save for college. Child care won't be an issue since I stay home and can be here to care for her during the day. Just think about! Anything you need, you just let me know. Oh and can you please pay on that credit card that is in 'exmyfam's' name?? The card company has called twice now because you haven't made your monthly payment. I've paid it so that 'exmyfam' won't be hit for no pay on his credit. He already has some problems because of the debt you were in. My ex husband and I were very careful with our money and have made great investments, building a very profitable portfolio. Which is how I am able to be a stay at home mom. It's so sad for 'littlemyfam' that you aren't able to be home with her when she gets out of school every day. If you ever need me to help you please let me know. I'm always here. Well I hope you have a fabulous day and I look forward to spending the weekend with 'littlemyfam' she is such a great kid!

And I'm not kidding. I copy and pasted this from her email. I changed the names to protect our identity. I got this kind of email weekly. I was a freaking basket case. I was mad all the time. I was struggling financially bc ex was not paying child support on a regular basis. It was not being garnished from his pay. I rented an apt based on my income and his support. Dumb! But my attorney told me, you make enough, you receive enough, you can afford a nice place. So I did. I had to get out of my lease and move in with my parents. And then it was constantly thrown in my face. I was jealous. I felt worthless and was being told just how worthless I was. I couldnt afford to pay on debts. I was paying a ton in child care, I had a vehicle I couldn't afford but it was the vehicle ex bought when we were married, I was awarded it in the divorce and trading it in at that time was not easy. I was trying and I eventually just gave it back to ex and bought my own 'more economical car'. This was around the time gas prices were over $4 a gallon. It was costing me nearly $100 a week to fill up. I was drowning. I couldn't afford pajamas. I was doing good to make sure she had school clothes, food, shoes, school supplies. There was not much room for anything else. I also wasn't taking care of myself. I could afford new clothes for work or shoes or a hair cut. Didn't get my nails done etc. But I was treated like I was not doing enough with what I had. It was constant badgering. Constant contact. Once I got help and learned to just not let HER control my thoughts, all of my craziness stopped. Also, I would get infuriated when I would call to talk my ex, she would answer and then I would have to tell her what I needed so she could decide if it was important enough or if it could wait. Of course, what I thought was important was never important to her ... So I was never allowed to talk to him. She said that I always started drama and she was 'protecting' him. I promise, if she would have just backed off and let the two of us work together none of the drama would have started but she was in my face ALL THE TIME!! I called one evening to tell him that our daughter had been to the dr and had strep throat. I paid the co-pay for the dr and paid for the Rx but needed that money for something for school in two days.. I wanted to know if he would let me borrow the money until pay day. I had not received child support in over a month and so money was pretty tight. She asked me 'is she bleeding?' well... No. 'is anything broken?' no. 'does she have food for dinner and breakfast tomorrow?' yes. Well then this can wait because WE are in the middle of something. OMG I flew off the handle. I felt provoked. I felt insane. I was sooo pissed. And the kicker? She recorded it. Every bit of my rant. Now, it didn't go in her favor. The judge was APPAULED by her questions and sided with me. She was slapped with a no contact order. Do not email do not call do not answer the phone etc. So then what happened was when I would call, no one would answer. When I would email HIM, no answer. All communication between ex and I stopped because SHE was not allowed to contact me, he was not either. I felt like I was going insane.

I had a tad bit of that insanity pop up last week. I am still fuming. Just goes to show that although I have taken the high road, they are still at it. They get Dd thurs to fri and every other weekend. So she wears clothes to their house on thurs from school. I pack her clothes for fri. They have stopped returning Thursdays clothes. So since I can't send her naked.... So I have to send her in clothes but now I'm not getting the clothes back. I emailed a nice email 'hey send clothes back when you can, here is the list of clothing that you have, no worries, just a reminder'. One email and that was it. The response was infuriating and then their next move was even more infuriating. I was accused of harassment and put on official notice... I was told the clOthes were NOT stolen and they would be returned after they were washed. I was told that they are trying to teach our daughter how to be responsible for her clothes since I had failed to do so, and she put them in the laundry basket and they had not been washed yet. (it's been a month since the first set was not returned how long does it take to wash 5 pairs of shorts and 5 shirts?) anyway- so the next day they had Dd and she came home without clothes again and when I said 'where are your clOths!!??' she started crying and said 'I tried to bring my clothes home and they got MAD AT ME! And took them away. That was my favorite shirt and because YOU had to make them Mad I'm never going to get my shirt back she's going to throw it away!'

It took every ounce of strength that I had not to flip out. I was so angry I cried. I still feel crazy. That woman makes me crazy!!!
But... The good news is, I will never let her see it again. She can act psycho all she wants but she won't ever get a response from me...

Sorry that was so long. If you are still reading, congratulations I am your biggest fan!! But OP seriously... Don't act like this stepmom. Just stay out of it. Ya know? Don't engage and just don't let her control your thoughts and don't let her drag you into a war. It's not your war. You can stay out of it. There is no reason to get involved. I honestly believe if SM had not contacted me and if she had just stopped needing to be right in the front row of my ex and I and our co-parenting and divorce stuff, I would probably not have been so crazy and I would not have reacted the way I did. You can't control how she reacts but you can do things to keep from antagonizing an already stressful situation.

Amber makes a good point...I've stayed out of this one, but I've been thinking the same thing....people are a little quick to tell her to run from this guy since he has "baggage". Hey this could the perfect guy for her....plus he sounds like a good guy who despite a lack in judgement that was probably fueled by hormones, has not elected to take the "sperm donor" path that so many men have (and get absolutely slammed for around here, btw).

Bonnie, I give a lot of credit for even seriously considering sticking with this guy...rather than "trading up" to someone with no baggage. I will caution her, in making her decision, to seriously consider the pros and cons of life with this guy and his son (and the nutty biomom), and BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF. You should look at the situation as it is now, figure if anything it will get worse, not better (better to err on the side of caution) and honestly figure out if a life with this guy is worth dealing with the "baggage".

Better to do the soul-searching now, rather than assume it will get better, get married, have kids, and a few years down the road realize you are not up for it....because then you simply can't walk away scott free like you can right now (except for the heavy heart). Trust me I know...my ex wife decided 10 years and 2 kids into our marriage that I was just not the right person for her....and even though we've handled the divorce amicably, there isn't a day that goes by that I don't wish she had done it before we had kids, seeing the things my kids lack in their lives by not having the stability in their home lives that I had growing up.

You know, as much as having a drama-llama biomom in the picture can suck, think about how lucky this little boy will be to have a good female in his life? If every woman ran away from this guy like some of you are advocating, this kid would be stuck with only the nutty-slutty mom to act as the female role model in his life....that would be just awful.

Good luck Bonnie....the most important thing is that you are honest with yourself in making your decision.

myfam stop sending clothes .... she should have enough clothes at both homes if not they NEED to buy her clothes ... don't care how much he pays in support when they ask and I am sure they will do not respond ... I feel for your daughter ... too bad she is too young to tell them to GFY but in a few years she will :) your SM needs my SKIDS!!! they would set her straight in a heartbeat :)

I'll send them right over ! My SD would have it all planned out how to get that shirt back and she would get it back!

To answer Amber ... if I did not take the stand I have taken for my own sanity sake I would be gone ....If I thought for a minute my SKids behavior would change if I left I would leave and give this family some peace ... you see BM is no longer the problem she programmed her children quite well ... so now she can throw up her hands and say its not my doing what will I ever do with my children, I can't believe my children behave that way .... me leaving will not change SD will not magically cure her. She is who she is nothing will change that until she wants to change No one including her own parents see that happening .... my SS13 is standing his ground against his BM refuses to go there ... she has tried all the tricks in her bag to get him to be with her ... she even made a drs appt so she would have to take him ... he is right now flipping out at her house because he doesn't want to be there .....hubby isn't home and I will not go get him ... its on his parents to deal with him not me ... everyone I know knows what I deal with on a daily basis I no longer hide it ... SD likes to pretend its all me ... but her mom makes her more miserable but she has to love her mom not me ...so I am the easy target.

"if I did not take the stand I have taken for my own sanity sake I would be gone ....If I thought for a minute my SKids behavior would change if I left I would leave and give this family some peace ... "

Pseudo - I understand you are saying that your leaving NOW wouldn't change anything, but what I am asking is if you could go back in time and do it ALL over again, would you?

When you first met your husband, do you wish someone had told you what I see so many on here saying "leave this man for someone with less baggage?"

My God, myfam. I was hoping until the end that that email was just a fictional example. I would have gone ballistic too. SM is the button-eyed mother in Coraline.

Amber, you ask an interesting question. In my case, DH and I were in our forties when we met. At that age there is no one without "baggage" of some sort or other. Even if someone had no serious ex-partners at all because they came straight from a convent, or stayed at home taking care of their parents or something, that is baggage of a sort because of the omission of certain experiences that others have had by that age. (Sort of like car insurance - you may be paying higher rates at age 40 if you've had an accident - but you will also be paying higher rates if you've only just learned to drive at age 39!)

So, to answer your question, if "someone" had said to leave DH I might not have (probably would not have) listened - but if everyone (friends, family, random strangers) were all saying the same thing I most definitely would have. One thing I have learned over the years is that no, my partner and/or his situation is not "misunderstood" by everyone but me; my friends and family generally really do want the best for me, and short-term happiness does not always equate to long-term happiness; and if my partner treats me differently than he does others he needs to be kicked to the curb at once - because his true personality is the way he treats others, not the temporary facade he is putting on for my benefit.

I knew that BM was not going to change - DH said she'd been the same way for almost two decades that he'd known her, and I was not so naive as to think that things would suddenly get better. I think a lot of it, with us, was knowing that we were marrying "for better or for worse", and at our ages, we had some idea of just how bad "worse" could really get.

Psuedo. That is my plan this week. I'm concernEd that they will send her to school in yesterday's clothes though ... If she were younger, I'm betting no one would notice but she is in 5 th grade and the kids do notice... She will flip. But she won't flip on them, she is scared of them. She never stands up to them, she comes home and takes it out on me. My plan is to not send clothes and to be at the school the next morning when he drops her off. If she is in the same clothes, I'll send her to the bathroom to change shirts. If she is in their clothes, what should I do once she is home? Should I send the clothes back on her next visit? Washed? Not washed? Or keep them until they send her clothes back? Oh! I just thought of something. If they send her in their clothes on Friday, I will send her back the following week in those same clothes, almost forcing them to return my clothes on her when she returns. Right?
I don't want to play their games but I want my clothes back. This is ridiculous. The reason I send clothes is because they drop her at school and I get her back after school. She needs clothes to wear to school that day from their house. In the past, when she was younger, i didn't send clothes and they flipped telling me I wasn't putting her first etc. That I was hurting HER by not providing her with clothes for the next day, making her wear the same clothes she wore yesterday. But NOW this game has started again and either way, I'm losing to them. They always win the emotional game with me because I have no interest in continuing to fight them.

As far as Bonnie leaving this man for a baggage free guy... I'm not advising her to do that bc I can't honestly stand here and give advice on that as I am not an SM BUT I can say this... Because of the situation I was in with ex and SM, I knew that when I did meet someone, kids and an ex were a deal breaker. Period. I did not want to be a stepmom. I can't handle both sides of caos. I just knew it wasn't for me. I never met a man w/ kids so I don't know what I would have done if I did but I told myself right away, SM was not who I wanted to be bc I could only juggle being a crazy BM.... I met my DH and for whatever reason, I got lucky. No kids no ex wife and no ex girlfriends causing trouble either. And I'm blissfully happy :)

Mattie you make a good point. My Dh was never married and did not have children. He was 37 I was 28. He has lived a longer life but I have more relationship experience. I have more parenting experience. He is still learning like a first time parent as I have already been thru the preschool years once. That for me is 'baggage' or a 'hardship because we don't have the same type of experience. It works for us but it is still the same as 'baggage'. Being a first time parent to a stepchild for him was NOT a cake walk. It's 100% better now that he is a bio parent but his expectations of a little 6/7 year old were WAY too high. Not so much anymore.

Amber I wasn't 20 something.... I was 40ish.. whole different boat ... I have and excellent relationship with my ex ... and his wife if the kids called me complaining about their SM or dad I sided with them not the kid ... I had no animosity I was over my ex I wanted him to be happy I wanted the kids to be happy ...

If my 20 something kids came to me with a new guy and his baby ... I would be saying what are you thinking ... are you nutz ... don't do it !!!

I think it was Bonnie herself that got some very honest answers here based on what she actually wrote. When one titles a thread 'How can I cope with my BF having a child' , it automatically clicks that OP is debating herself on this one. Followed up with " I love my boyfriend and his son, I just don't know how I'm going to get through all of this when I have to deal with her. I want a future with him, and we've talked about it, I just can't see having to deal with her forever"--

And then there was the 'red flag' about how having first child with someone loved' blah blah. It really gives the impression that Bonnie wishes this man was 'baggage' free and it would have been her that he met first and who gave him his child. Actually we've had many postings of young woman who write out that picture. And if that is truly the case, yeah, I think it's better for that particular poster to think real real hard and if that particular poster can't move on from those feelings/desires that will never come true in the case the particular poster is posting about...then it is likely really best to move on. When one is young twenty something there is a whole world still out there to explore.

Secondly I really try to be open and 'beat about the bush a bit' when we get a poster that comes and states things like 'if only'. 'If only' isn't going to happen in most the scenerios many posters bring forth here because the 'event' has already happened or simply noone can predict what can or won't happen and 'if only' may be a mere pipe dream. The last thing I'd want to do is assure someone something will happen (especially for the better and all will change and be great) and give the poster a false sense of security.

I'm a BM and a SM. I've been happily married in my second marriage over 30 yrs. I, myself, did not have a BM to deal with, she was not in the picture. Nor did my Dh have a BD to deal with as the BD was not in the picture either. I have kids in stepfamily situations. I've seen both sides. One son is co-parenting excellently without any hic-ups. My SS though struggles a bit in his case. I'll raise my hand and admit when I see any GF of SS beginning to overstep with SS and SGS I jump all over SS and remind him that his first priority must be SGS and that 'that woman' (a new GF) is going to have to step back and shut up or trouble will be brewing.

I'm not saying a guy with a child should never get married and that all females should flee in terror from him. What I've tried to say here is that it is not going to be an easy road. If one wants an easy road, find a new guy, this one isn't the one. In this case, Bonnie is wondering herself if she can do this. We don't have the answers for her. We are not there. We don't know this BM or anything about her except for what Bonnie has told us. We only know of all the parts Bonnie has chosen to share with us. Honestly, we don't really know what part Bonnie herself my have played in setting up the dislike between the two ladies (whether meaning to or not).

All we can do here is give a poster our personal take on what they are writing and of course our opinions are going to be based on our own personal experiences and/or beliefs. I doubt anyone would stop by a forum of strangers, ask for advice and than totally do whatever we say to do and make their life choices based on a few strangers posting back to her. But sometimes it helps to get different perspectives from others who are not so closely involved in the posters life. Strangers don't have to sugar coat things, they don't have to be careful not to say something they fear you don't want to hear blah blah blah.

JMT- I appreciate your balancing act between not sugar coating things but at the same time using tact when helping a newbie recognize the situation they are in. I just thought some folks are rather forceful in stating that you shouldn't get involved with a guy that already has children, but if you're saying that if the girl is already having problems with the situation and is finding that she can't handle it, then it probably IS better that she move on.

Bonnie sounds like she has a good head on her shoulders. She is able to take advice, even criticism so that says something about her. I hope things turn out okay for her, and if they don't, that she finds the strength to deal with them.

I like Kroopy's suggestion to look at things as they are NOW, and figure if things get worse is this guy worth the hassle. Something I will apply to my own situation as well.

(((Myfampg)))

Thanks Amber!

"I just thought some folks are rather forceful in stating that you shouldn't get involved with a guy that already has children"

That's not at all what I'm saying and I'm frustrated at having my words twisted.

I'm saying that a young woman is making a foolish decision if she decides to marry a man who has a baby with a psycho for a BioMom who has already demonstrated that she is determined to wreck BioDad and Girlfriend's life -- even if it screws up the the baby in the process. A man who made a foolish decision and has an *immature* baby mamma in his life is one thing. That's a copacetic mess. A mess you can live with. A really crazy 'no way this woman isn't going to screw up her kids' baby mama is a whole 'nuther ball game.

That is a life of heartache.

A woman in her 40's, or even mid 30's knows her options and is in a much better position to gauge the depth of the mess and her own responses to it. A young woman is just signing up for a really hard road without knowing her full range of choices.

Checking out now...

Myfam.... I'm still amazed at how in depth psycho your sm really is. Ds16's sm has tried to talk to me in a condenscending manner, like she knows more then me because she's older and yes, I have yelled at her. Now I try REAllY hard not to speak to her. When I got the bill from the attorney for braces I called and she wanted to talk to me... I wouldn't do it. I waited it out till bd got home. Tonight though ds16 said I needed to call her. It was about his grandpa. He's very sick and probably not going to make it so bd was at work and wants to come get him tomorrow. I went ahead and spoke to her and said it's fine. BUT I kept it short and sweet.

I also have numerous times been called the psycho bm from sperm donor and his numerous girlfriends. He admits to me that he got me pregnant on purpose but tells them I was already pregnant when he met me. (Kinda hard to do given the timeline but he's an idiot) Although he admits to me he got me pregnant on purpose, he then asked me to either abort my son or give him up for adoption to his sister. Because I didn't do this, I'm psycho and destroyed his life...... even though he has a daughter 3 months younger then my son that he very much wanted to keep and has helped raise... kinda. His family calls me bipolar in public places all because he's in jail for nonsupport (which in reality is because he violated probation... my fault as well, just ask them) I admit, there have been times with him that I have yelled and yelled hardcore. To the point I couldn't breath... but he drives me to it... especially with his girlfriend saying things in the background. Bonnie.... you need to STAY OUT OF IT!!! It does NOT concern you! No matter how much you think you know, you don't know. He doesn't acknowledge that my son is his, he tells everyone that he's not. Therefore I'm always some pyscho b&%$# that has ruined his life. I have at times felt very crazy because of him. I take Xanex ALWAYS before seeing him... which is ONLY in court. I have tried and tried and tried to be nice to him. It's no use! Honestly, if he fell off the face of the earth it'd really truly be better for all involved.

I am also a sm to a ss that has a crazy bm. She left him for a man... by text message. Whenever my dh is speaking to her I am QUIET! I don't let her know I'm even around. I don't speak to her anymore. I used to be nice to her and it got me nowhere. It's no use.

I feel like my dh got lucky.... that crazy man that is the sperm donor to my son left us and left us for good. He has NOTHING to do with my son. That's almost better then having to deal with that crazy bm everyday. She comes when she wants to come and demands when she wants to demand...then cancels on ss. DH just has it better not to have to ever deal with that man.

Really, you need to really examine how the bm really is. You know... NO ONE in sperm donors town knows me... they've heard only what he says of me. So am I really crazy just because he says so... and his famiy says so? No, I'm not. I have felt crazy because of them... I was left pregnant and alone... that tends to make you lose it for a moment. Seriously, is she crazy? Or is she scared like myfam pointed out? Cause that very first time that I took my son to meet that man, he was 5 months old and he took him out of my sight for a few minutes and I had a panic attack. It wasn't out of craziness, it was out of concern. If for whatever reason a judge told me tomorrow that I had to let my son go to visit him for an unsupervised visit, I'd probably look and feel crazy then too.... but only because I'm terribly concerned for my son.

I think I totally know how that bm felt when she was pregnant and alone and her ex had a new gf. It SUCKS! It's lonely and you feel like scum of the earth just because you are giving birth to a baby alone. I wouldn't have taken that man back if he was the last one on earth... but I still felt horrible about it.

"If someone told you when you first met your husband all what you are are telling her, would you have done the same thing? Would you have turned your back on a guy you fell in love with? Would you do it all over, or do you wish you had moved on to someone with less "baggage"?"

Going back for a do over, knowing what I know now... if things were destined to be the way they are now again... hmmm. I would certainly do things differently. I would look at the whole situation with different eyes. I know that some of the problems, I contributed to even though at the time, I thought I was helping & doing the right thing. But, if I had any clue that I would be dealing with a BM that pops out kids to keep a guy but has little to do with the kids she's popping out... but wants to control everything. No, I would not do it all over. I would keep on looking for less baggage or be alone. It would be a big deal breaker. I foolishly ignored some red flags (by his ex, not his DD) that began to pop up after we became engaged. I thought it would settle after we were married but it's been downhill ever since. But, I have watched this woman destroy her own daughter in the process of hating me. She has ensured a relationship will never take place between her daughter and I. She is pleased that her daughter is miserable living here. It's a sick thing.

The marriage vows change things. Leaving a marriage, while still possible, is a different ballgame than moving on from a boyfriend that has baggage. When you make that vow, you are saying you'll stick through good & bad... forever. And not enough people stay through the bad times, or sick or poorer, it's too easy to divorce & seek the good times with someone else.

Love does not conquer all. I would never think of ending a relationship with someone I love, as "turning my back" on them. We are all responsible for our own happiness. If a guy makes decisions to have children and things don't work out with his baby mama... then his ex turns out to be crazy or keep drama in his life... that is what HE brings to the table. There are lots of single mom's out there that many guys would not date or get serious with BECAUSE she has children. That is her baggage. WE all get to decide what baggage is acceptable for us. But, nobody should ever accept someone's baggage because they feel responsible, guilty, or obligated. In my opinion, it's just one of the things that should be considered in choosing a mate.

The differences that I see between choosing a partner in your 20's, 30's & 40's... when I was 20, a guys job history was not too important. when I was 30, I wanted an employed guy. when I was 40, I wanted someone that had a good work history & some kind of retirement plans. I was 22 when I got together with my exBF (& his 3 kids). I was naive & thought we could be one big happy family. It never occurred to me how damaging to the kids it was that their mother didn't see them, that she left them, etc. I left that relationship when I was 29. It was a living nightmare when I left... kids were angry. (no doubt because their mom abandoned them) I was 35 when I met DH. One of the most important factors in choosing DH to date was that he seemed to have a good relationship with his ex... SD's mom "seemed" very involved with her kids, they shared 50/50 & there was NO court involvement whatsoever. I dated several guys before I met DH that I just never had an interest in seeing or talking to, once they said a negative thing about their ex... or any drama. That was a huge deal for me & I made a conscious decision with choosing someone that had NO drama. It wasn't until we were living together & engaged that BM started acting really different... complaining, using her kid to control us, manipulating, being vindictive, etc. It got tremendously worse AFTER we got married... literally on the honeymoon, she had SD call us non stop for three days... every few hours. Eventually, we were in a court battle & it's been a race downhill ever since. If I could foresee the problems I've had & continue to have... no way would I have gone the same path. As much as I love him, as great a guy I know he is, as happy as he makes me when we are together... I still would have passed & moved onto someone that had not made a child with someone like that. He apparently had no idea that she would ever do the things she's done in the last five years. He is almost as shocked as I am. (he had a slight clue that he ignored... he knew BM's older daughter was being raised by the grandma but he had no idea it was to be BM's pattern) But to go into a relationship, knowing the ex is crazy or manipulative & actively trying to wreck things... RUN!!! RUN!!! RUN!!! No man is worth it, you're only young once & to jump into a situation that could very well (even likely) cause you to become a bitter old woman... no, get out while you have lots of options. (and yes, there are always lots of options)

I do believe staying will most likely leave a person jaded. It will be a learning experience at the very least.

Sweeby- Sorry, I was not trying to twist your words.

It's just that I see it said on here so many times

"Run away unless he is the last man on earth"

"Don't buy the money pit! Until you say "I do" or get pregnant, you have all your options open. You can still have a wonderful life with a great guy with *minimal* baggage!"
Now when I read things like that, I think ya'll must be saying don't get involved with any guy that has "baggage" i.e. BM issues. I know I was thinking that when I read what some on here wrote.

And of course the newbie is going to react by saying "but I looooooove him!" or "if what everyone here is saying came true everyone that had a baby with someone from a prior relationship would be single"

BUT if you say to her:
"I'm not saying a guy with a child should never get married and that all females should flee in terror from him. What I've tried to say here is that it is not going to be an easy road. If one wants an easy road, find a new guy, this one isn't the one." And add into that your own personal experience, a newbie will probably be more receptive to what you have to say.

I think if you try to think back to how it was when you first met your husband, how we looked at the relationship through rose tinted glasses, how we thought love conquers all... if we think back to how we thought everything would be okay, things would get better, then temper that when giving advice to newbies, I think the message might get through.

Ima, I appreciate your honesty. Instead of just saying "Run away" you tell your own experience and it helps to understand WHY you say it's probably not a good idea to get involved with a guy that has a crazy BM.

Well once again, I appreciate all the words of advice, wisdom and so forth. I've taken into consideration all that was said. Somethings certainly weren't what I wanted to hear but I personally like it when people are blunt with me so I didn't mind. However, I have to continue to agree with Amber as she seems to understand me the most. My title on here says "Need help coping with my BF having a child" and I couldn't fit..."with a crazy woman" so that's why it is cut off there for those of you who were questioning that...I am a "newbie" so sorry if my title was not completely accurate.

Anyway, I don't care who thinks I'm naive or too young or whatever... I still love my BF with all my heart and I came on here to see ways I could COPE with his BM drama...not to hear reasons why I should get out of my relationship. Have I thought to myself "What the heck am I doing" before? Absolutely. But that does NOT mean I want to leave him or his son behind. I'm going to sign up for therapy and see if some professional help can't get me through this. This is not easy on him either and if I just left what kind of GF or future wife would I be? I'm going to support and stick behind the man that I love and strap in for the roller coaster ride ahead of us. It will not be easy and sometimes I may not think I'm cut out for it, but that's what these forums and going to see a therapist can do to help. It's all about the fixing the problem and not focusing on it. My serenity means more to me then getting even.

But honestly, thanks for everything everyone it is all greatly appreciated and I'll continue to read on ;-)

Sweeby, excellent advice.
Myfam, I have no words. Thank you for sharing.

Amber, I would not have done it. I love my husband, but I would not have married him. And my SM/SD dramas are a tenth of what you ladies experience. I just can't deal with that kind of drama in my everyday life.

I think it was Sweeby who made the point that being 30 or 40 is a big difference from 20 in decision making.

I'm in my 30's. If I knew then....

BUT - I would not be the person I am now with out it. So... we all have our lessons to learn.

I'd keep dating this guy. Why get married? If you love him that much, stick around. Watch how he and BM interact on their own, without you as a buffer.

Because let me tell you, men say the same thing to their new girlfriends: She tricked me, she trapped me, it's all her fault. And they're all lying.

There is no "all", you can't categorize people like that.

He's not playing the victim either and I'm not stupid enough to believe that he can't take some responsibility seeing as though it does take two to tango. It doesn't take much for men to tango when a woman is so willing either.

--"I'm going to sign up for therapy and see if some professional help can't get me through this."--

Sounds like a plan. Perhaps some individual and also some couple sessions. I'm sure both you and BF will find it beneficial.

And please look into a good parenting plan agreement for BF/BM if they don't already have one. And be sure BF has the ability to be able approach for modifcation reviews. Baby is awfully young to say set one now that's expected to be followed exactly the same for years to come. He's still a baby now, everybody's needs and how they are met will change as he ages. For example, visitations may lengthen as baby gets older.

You've not mentioned the custody/visitation set-up. Do I assume BF/BM have joint custody or what? The things like a plan agreement as to who makes what decisions and what decisions have to be shared decisions can make a difference in how smooth the sail might be. Just be sure BF does not agree to anything and everything just to get her off his back...for one, since he intends to be an active father he needs to be sure his rights are protected to actually be an active role.

And yeah, those little things like readily being willing to stay behind during pick-ups can make a lot of difference in how the picks/drop offs go. Kinda outta sight, outta mind. She might not focus on you if you're not right out there in her face. If the agreement says curb pick-up/drop off, BF can make several trips in and out carrying baby needs without assistance. He can bring baby in, and go back out to get whatever else and discuss whatever he and BM might need to discuss. You can maybe think of it this way. You're not being left out, you're the lady in the house getting a couple minutes to greet baby in private...or as he ages, the lady inside getting a sweet chat about what all happened in pre-school this week. Let the parents do the ol' parenting stuff outside by themselves, if there is anything you need to know about BF can fill you in later. You're outta BM's sight, outta BM's mind.

One of the most important things off the bat to remember is not to ever, never ever, discuss BM in the home while the child might hear you. Never! The absolute last thing you/BF need is for son to repeat what he heard or what he thought he heard that might upset him and/or his mother. You'll be surprised by what huge ears those little ones have when it comes to hearing what you thought they could not hear.

Good luck to you, Bonnie.

"It doesn't take much for men to tango when a woman is so willing either."

Yeah, same thing with my DH. BM had only just broken up with her BF when DH first slept with her. In fact, when DH first met her she was with her soon-to-be-ex BF. No doubt BM could have used some time by herself, between men, to sort things out in her own life - but no, DH was right there, looking all hot and sexy and perfectly willing to show BM a good time. There is just no way a gentleman with any kind of class would have behaved in such a way; he should have had enough self-restraint to control himself when it was so glaringly obvious that BM was in a particularly fragile emotional state at that time. But no! DH asked her out and has even admitted to me that he not only made it extremely obvious that he was willing and able, but that he even deliberately tried to convince BM to succumb. It was just so unchivalrous on DH's part.

Oh....sorry. I think I might have misread the posting.

"I'm going to sign up for therapy and see if some professional help can't get me through this."

About two months ago, there I was staring at the papers for a divorce, trying to decide whether I should start filling them out. The years have taken their toll on my health & my marriage. About two weeks before SD was to come back from her mom to start school, I began having daily bouts of stomach pain & anxiety. I went to the doctor & was given heartburn medication. I knew it wasn't heartburn so I made an appointment with a therapist. She directed me to stress management classes. I went & realized just how much I had taken on with DH (BM, SD, MIL, and the rest of his family) as well as stress my own kids/family bring into my life... along with work & everything else we all deal with. My low point was sitting there staring at those blank divorce papers... the idea of coming home to an empty house appealed to me. No SD glaring at me, whining to her dad what everyone (usually me) did to her that day, and of course the little annoying things DH does day to day. I was very resentful of how much drama has been brought into my life and just the mere fact that I was the one sitting there with a counselor while BM could care less and SD might be pleased to know she was getting to me and it was not affecting DH the way it was affecting ME. He shrugged, said there's nothing he can do about it & went off to work. I was ANGRY!!! It still makes me a little angry to think about it because it feels like I am the only one that cares. It made me realize that I am an outsider to THEIR family. BM, DH & SD are their own family that I have no part in. How BM treats her DD pisses me off as a mom & hurts SD, but SD defends her & wants me to butt out. DH gets frustrated & throws his hands up (with BM & with SD & with MIL) and BM is so involved with her own life that she either has no idea how much damage she is inflicting on her daughter or she doesn't care. DH won't tell her because he says it won't matter, she's gonna do what she's gonna do. He had the same attitude about SD, except that I am expected to do things for her... like transport her, have her come to my office after school, deal with the school when they call, etc. He wouldn't say it, but I think he began to resent me when I finally said no more... I don't want anything to do with raising this child that obviously wants nothing to do with me (because her mom has encouraged her to feel that way for years) & is not expected to treat me with any respect. So that is where I was... IN COUNSELING. and angry that it was me sitting there talking about my feelings, my frustration, my depression. And paying to do so. I was ready to file for divorce but wanted to make one last effort to save our marriage. I made an appointment for a marriage counselor & decided I was not going to drag DH there. If he went & worked on changing some things, great. If he refused to go, I would get counseling as I left him. At first, he commented on the cost.. he didn't want to pay that much.. (he is very cheap, unless it's buying something HE wants) so I asked him if a divorce is cheaper? It was the first time I had used that word with him & he has gone every week. He has heard things he didn't want to deal with. He's made changes to make things better... he slips up still but I can tell he wants things to change. He is frustrated with his daughter & thought sticking his head in the sand was the way to go. I see lots of husbands do that. The problems belong to THEM.. They made the child with the other person. They need to deal with it. Things have gotten better but I still have days where I want to run & give up. This isn't what I signed up for... but then it is part of better or worse.

I guess my point is that if you are already in counseling when you aren't even married... why are YOU the one in counseling? Your BF should be dealing with the mess HE created & sheltering YOU from it as much as possible. If you need counseling for other reasons... such as trying to deal with things in your past that come to the surface because of what's going on, that's different. But if you are in counseling to figure out how to deal with this woman being in your life, I guess I would ask "what is your BF doing to make the situation better for you?"

I wish you the best.

LOL Mattie.

Bonnie: "no matter what I'm always going to think he was the victim in this situation"

Then, no offense, but you're being naive.

You "hung out" with him a week before he found out she was pregnant. He got hammered and had a one night stand with the town whore. Everything you know about her is second hand. I might come across as being a jerk, but your boyfriend, IMO is just as trashy as she is, if not more.

"There is no "all", you can't categorize people like that. He's not playing the victim either and I'm not stupid enough to believe that he can't take some responsibility seeing as though it does take two to tango. It doesn't take much for men to tango when a woman is so willing either."

Bonnie, I didn't say all men everywhere. I said:

"Because let me tell you, men say the same thing to their new girlfriends: She tricked me, she trapped me, it's all her fault. And they're all lying."

ALL MEN who tell their new girlfriend that their old sex partner got pregnant and it was MORE the girl's fault than their fault are liars. And fools.

Here's how it works. The man puts his penis into the woman's vagina. When he ejaculates the sperm does its best to impregnate said woman.

If he put his penis inside of her and they were both consenting adults, the blame is 50/50. I don't care who poked a hole in the condom, didn't take a pill or lied about being sterile.

Call me old, call me jaded. Convince me otherwise.

Good points, Ima. I guess I assumed when she said she was going to go for therapy that she meant for herself. A way to seek some understanding of where she's coming from, where she is and perhaps why and where she wants to go from here. But I think individual for the BF would be beneficial to him in the same way it may be for her. I don't necessarily think the starting point for Bonnie is 'how do I cope with my BF's crazy ex' as much as it might be 'who is Bonnie and what does she really want and need out of life'...and go from there. IDK, it's not going to hurt her to go and it might actually help her. One day at a time.

Mattie... you crack me up!!!! My dh can't play the victim either... we were discussing the other parents one night. He asked me if I were ugly when I was younger. I said I don't know but I hope not, why? He said cause ds16's bd is nasty. (He has really really gone down a HUGE hill!! He looks AWFUL now) So I asked if he was ugly when he was drunk cause that's when he conceived ss.... he just said... "No, it was like this... damn, the bar is closing..." OMG!!! Yes, that makes him a HUGE player back in his day. (One HOT huge player, haha) But he's always thought that night was a mistake... not the kid, the part of being with her. She's a nightmare. Ds16's bd and I were together through high school. Totally different situations. Also.... because I was left high and dry and pregnant with ds11, I had a hard time at first with the thought of dh not having anything to do with bm during her pregnancy... but NOW I KNOW!!! HAHA!

Silver, you also crack me up!! That's so funny! Can you send that to a specific county jail in Indiana? Cause sperm donor needs to know how that works. He hasn't figured it out after 5 kids. And our son will ALWAYS be my fault and NEVER be his. Gosh I wish I could show you pictures. It's so dang obvious.

The more I think about it Bonnie.... I realize now that I'd probably never put myself in this position again. It's harder then anything I've ever had to deal with. I get so many mixed messages with the whole picture. BM and DH want me to do everything for ss. I do.... but then when he's awful to me, they will both tell me to take care of it, till I do. Then I can't discipline THEIR kid. NOTHING is ever the same with discipline for him. NOTHING! So be prepared if you have children with bf, cause their are so many things to think of before going into this.

Yeah, my DH tried to tell me something similar too. She stalked him, etc. Somehow when she was running after him he tripped and his penis ended up inside her! What are the chances, right?

Bonnie, I'm not trying to come down on you. I'm sure you are "in love". But the problem is "in love" usually doesn't last. The kind of love that lasts is built on mutual respect and a ton of hard work and compromise. Having a baby with someone you love can be just as hard as having a baby with someone you don't love. Either way, there is going to be a demanding little human who will drain you of everything you have: money, time, looks, energy... you name it.

When I was 24 I thought I could be a mother, I thought I could be a stepmother, I thought I could do it all. And I have. But if I could go back I'd not tie myself financially, legally, emotionally to someone quite as easily.

I'd be VERY VERY cautious if I were you. No one is going to die if you don't marry this man this year. Give it some time. Really feel out the situation. Check it out, this is how your life will be now, and make sure this is REALLY what you want.

Because there's a really big world out there honey. Don't settle.

Hey you guys are probably going to say 'No WAY!' but if I had a crystal ball into my future, I would have never gotten divorced. Yes that means I wouldn't have my DH and I wouldn't have my son, but my Dd would have her 'normal' parents. We never fought, we had a good life, we just didn't feel 'in love' so we thought it was fair to try to find love. I would have just made it work and I would have tried harder but I gave up easier than I should have. ExDH begged me to come back during our seperation and I didn't because I felt happier not being with him. Then I missed him and it was too late, he had moved on. We both said we jumped too quick to divorce but once we did we just let it go. I regretted it for a while and then I met my now Dh and I am very happy. Don't get me wrong... It's just, if I would have known how much crap I would go through, I would have gone back to him when he asked!! But I still hate him today if that makes sense. And not for what happened in our marriage but for the crap he enables today.

You aren't crazy Myfam. I think the same things... more often than I'd like to admit.

I'm happy. But... (and I still hate my X too, and am glad I'm not married to him....)

BUT...

You've had a great 9 months with your BF, accept and appreciate it for what it was because it will NEVER be the same again!

IMO move on. Step parenting is the hardest job there is and although it can be very rewarding it can also cause ALOT of heart break and in some cases can break up a marriage. It will be alot harder to end things after you move in together, get married, have children, etc.

You will deal with this mother FOREVER, not just the next 18 years. And as the child goes through different phases and places in his life the mother will have to have more contact with your BF and if it bothers you now, it will most likely get worse over time... I'm sorry that you are having a hard time with this, but right or wrong, my advice to ANY of my friends that have considered dating someone with a child, I advise against it. My dad told me this along time ago and many days I wish I would have listened, "people that have been married before need to marry other people that have been married before. People that have children should be with other people that have children."
Keep us posted, and good luck!!!

I don't know -- I married a man that was never married and had no children and it has been drama free bliss! Just because I was married and had children does not mean that I MUST be a stepmom NOW. I chose not to be a stepmom for this simple reason. If OP was a mom, it would not change the BM in her life. it wouldn't help her to understand either. My ex's new wife is a divorced mom and she is the crazy one. I've heard from my Dd that she is a crazy BM too. I have no idea although I can't imagine her ever being sane anyway.

I think your advice is great for a person who enjoys being #1 and wants to be the first wife and the first mom and the first of everything. But that isn't how everyone is. I AM THAT way! I did not want to deal with someone else's kids and someone else's baby momma. That's just me being honest.

I dated this guy once that did have kids. He was divorced but his ex lived on the other side of the country. She was never a problem for me. This was when I made my 'no ex or kids' rule. But the guy was always talking trash about the mother of his children. She was a B or she was a Wh09e or she was spending his child support on a new car, this and that. I would get so mad at him. Why? Because I was a mom and these same complaints were being said about me. They could have been in a 'hate my ex' club together. He would go on and on about how he never loved her and that they were young and dumb and she for pregnant on the pill etc. And this was a man that I really really liked. But the more he talked the less I respected him and felt sorry for his ex wife. No one should use the young and dumb or drunk excuse when talking about how they conceived their children. I realized that I had become that ex that men complain about and place blame on AND that I could be her AGAIN with this new guy. Because he could not stop talking trash about her I wondered what he would say about me when we split!!

I also just told my husband, do you realize I trapped you into pregnancy? Lol he said WHAT? I said remember how I was on birth control but I had gotten strep throat and received a shot of penicillin? He said ya and your BC didn't work anymore that month Yea I remember.
I said 'and do you remember how drunk I was that night?' he said nope cause I don't remember it myself. Lol yes my son was conceived on birth control, on the night of our company christmas party when I was suffering from the worst case of strep EVER!! I hope he tells his second wife what a wh09e I was for trapping him into having our first son. Lol it will be a riot!!

Any woman that sits back and listens to that garbage and still respects the man enough to marry him and have more children with him, better hope she never ends up being his ex.

"Any woman that sits back and listens to that garbage and still respects the man enough to marry him and have more children with him, better hope she never ends up being his ex."

Well put that on a plaque and mount it! Isn't that the truth?!

I met my boyfriend a year ago, fell in love straight away, dropped everything and we moved inter-state together. I knew he had a 4year old son before we moved in together but had never been in this situation and didn't realise how I would 'be' in this situation. After the first meeting of his child and the ex I felt sick. I get so angry, sad and frustrated that I met the man of my dreams and some random woman took the priveledge of having his first child away from me. Not only that, but we are planning on buying a house together, but have recently discovered that she (the ex) had an outstanding phone bill she racked up when they're weren't together in his name, leaving my boyfriend with a bad credit rating and debt, stopping us from getting a house. This woman has 3 other children to 2 different men, making my boyfriends son her 4th child to a 3rd man. It was a one night stand but they got together for the sons sake, separating months later. I feel that if they had a serious relationship I could possibly understand more, but because having yet another child with yet another man means nothing to this woman, hurts me even more. I love my boyfriend more than anything and have already given up so much but I feel like with each passing day, the situation is affecting me (and our relationship) more and more. What should I do...?

Pretty good example right there why you don't just upend your life for someone without being with them for a long time and really getting to know as much as possible about them, their past, how they act when things get tough, how they treat people...etc. I rarely hear stories about people "throwing caution to the wind" and moving in together after only knowing each other for a little while that turn out good.

Oh, and

"...some random woman took the priveledge of having his first child away from me.."

Oh please....if it was that important to you, YOU are the one who messed up by getting involved with someone with a child. Don't blame her, or him. People make mistakes, lots of them. Seems like you just made one too....so don't expect other people to be perfect.

I know you all are in love with your boyfriends, but remember, "Love is Not Enough." There are so many other things that are important in a marriage. Think how many marriages end in divorce! They were "in love" too.

The strains of dealing with an angry, unstable BM and an unruly, spoiled child take their toll eventually and it gets to be too much to handle. I would walk, no, RUN away while you still can.