is it possible that your SO knows that him talking to BM would upset you so he just avoided upsetting you. i am very friendly with my Xhusband and when we are on the phone we sometimes laugh and joke which sounds to SO like too friendly or too flirty (i talk to X in different langauge that i used at home with SO so SO doesn't know what i am talking to X about) and he was jealous couple of times. so i avoid talking to X in SO's presence. I have no feelings towards X and have no secrets from SO but sometimes we just do things to protect each other feelings. I don't think it is a big deal about your SO not telling you.

maybe you can tell him that you have no problems with him talking to X, but if he keeps it in sceret it hurts your feelings. maybe if he knows you won't get upset, he will share with you next time. and i wonder if he could let his X know that she behaves inappropriatelly.

I would want to be sure he is done with wife #1 -- not being honest about his interactions with her and her 'flirting' would worry me. If you're going to have a relationship with this guy you need to be honest and say 'hey bud you be honest with me if you 'think' what your doing will upset me finding out you were dishonest with me will not only upset me but make me loose my trust in you'

Don't worry about being on the defensive - finding something by accident is not snooping just happenstance. He needs to explain his actions and build that trust in you.

I can understand any discomfort if he thinks I'd get upset. But all he had to say was, "I was talking to BM so I was running late." In the past he's said that he doesn't talk to her regarding much else other than SK and things that would affect that. But I know thats not the case, he just says it because he thinks it will not make me upset. If she calls while we're on the phone, he'd never say "oh its BM, let me get this" he'd say he needs to call me back with no explanation, etc., etc, etc. But my thing is I just want him to be honest about things w/o sugar coating etc.

Another thing is the "so what" factor. So what he didnt tell me, so what it "slipped my mind", "do i have to give you a recount of my whereabouts" ......

i already see where the conversations go before they can happen, even if i try a different approach. and sometimes it doesn't help that I'm not in the best place to talk about it without getting upset.

Maybe try the reverse roll approach? See how he would feel in your shoes had you been off with your x than came home with a side story.

I've tried that before regarding another issue and its usually hit or miss. LOL.

How are you suggesting it sound? Perhaps I'd understand better.

My DH did something along these lines before we got married, kept something most likely innocent from me because he "thought it would upset me."

I very plainly told him, "Don't decided how you think I feel about something and then lie to me about it to save face."

We had many discussions about "little white lies" before we got married (or before I consented to marry hime), but he finally realized that what is an "innocent lie" meant to spare my feelings actually upset me much more when discovered.

I do not lie...not even little white lies. I do not like being lied to. I do not like being asked to lie. Not everybody has such a cut and dry view of lying though.

As for if his actual actions were inappropriate, I'm of the feeling that if he wouldn't do it in your presence, then he shouldn't be doing outside of your presence.

These are a few of my biggest deal breakers, and something very similar to this happened early in our relationship, but we were able to work it out, so good luck to you.

When my DH used to tell me that BM was calling him at work (several times a day), he would try to sound annoyed. I think he tried to sound annoyed so I didn't get the idea that he was enjoying the calls. I really think he didn't care one way or the other. Sometimes, she would call five or six times to get one issue handled. Those times, I could tell he was annoyed. I finally told him that while he needs to talk to her regarding their daughter, five or six calls a day was a bit much. (not to mention she would drop in at his work sometimes too, and hang out to 'talk')

He finally got the message when I asked him if he would mind me calling my ex (the guy I dated just before I met my DH, the one that proposed to me when I started dating my DH) to do me 'favors' when he was at work and I needed something. He got the point quickly and finally told BM to stop calling over every little thing. She got pissed when he told her that and stopped going into his job site. Now when she calls, he lets it go to voice mail. He has disengaged. (of course when she met her current BF, it got much better)

If you have a discussion, he'll maintain that he was caught in traffic & that he doesn't know what possessed her to leave that message;
that's what anybody would do when they get caught.

Of course he acts matter-of-fact when you go with him to meet ex, what else is he going to do?
& what else would she, or you, expect him to do?

He knows exactly what she's doing, & he knows exactly what he's doing:
there's a reason he was late,
there's a reason he told you he was tied up in traffic,
& there's a reason his ex felt it was appropriate to leave that message.

Guys live in a world saturated with sexuality (or, as one of my friends puts it, "their brains live in their britches");
"having 2 women", or at least having 2 women vying for him, is heady stuff, & he revels in it...

& he's not treating either one of you like a whole person or like a respected & needed partner.

Guys also often think they're invincible, so he feels absolutely sure that he can keep right on keeping you in one compartment & her in another, he has no doubt that this can go on forever.

I think it's time to turn on the flamethrower.

(They don't believe you, or even hear you, if you speak calmly & rationally. They only hear you when there are dire consequences to themselves.)

like, "Don't aggravate me by trying to convince me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Come home late again & you'll walk into a vacant house & your ex & I will be sharing lunch tomorrow, comparing the stories you tell her & the ones you tell me."

& ima's method sounds like a good approach;
although guys live, well, wherever they live, they're also possessive;
no man wants "his" woman to act with men the way he acts with women!

makes my head spin.

I wish you the best.

all he gathered from it was that I'm "upset he was late"...

There are few times I silently call him an idiot, and this is one of them.

but you can't expect him to know why you're upset if he has to "gather" anything;
he does not have a clue because you haven't given him one.

I'm a'tellin' ya, ya gotta stop that "silently" stuff & get out the flamethrower.

((lighting the flamethrower))

My DH hates conflict. He would be the type to not mention something if he thought it might upset me, and I'm guessing most husbands would assume a wife would be leery of them 'hanging out' with their ex, whether it true or not.
BUT - it is one thing to not mention something if it is never questioned - 'By the way, I hung out with the ex and had a great time' - and another to outright lie about it - "I was stuck in traffic."

About the only thing you can do it turn it on him and question how he would feel if you lied about your doings. Explain to him that the hanging out isn't the issue - it's his lying. Chatting is great, but chatting and lying is cause for suspicion. Does he want you to question him whenever he isn't with you?

What you have to do is make sure your words are the same as your actions. Don't tell him you are okay with him hanging out but let your tone or body language tell him differently - this time or any other. If there is to be honesty it needs to be from all sides.

sylviatexas, I did talk to him. but he just breezed past most of what i said and went to what he thought was the usual problem.

We ended up talking more last night, and he got upset with me for saying he lied to me. He said that they talked for seriously, 3 minutes (his estimation of time is weird as is) and that she probably sent him the message because the exchange felt different to her. whatever thats supposed to mean, ... this whole time he's talking out of anger so i dont know what is said to be mean and how much is what he really believes. I didnt know what he meant by "different" and he responded with I have an oppressive nature so it probably didn't feel stressful. Again, i dont know what to make of it, i know that we still need to talk, that is if we're still together.

And on top of it all, BM won't drop off SD at the house if BD isn't there which means she'd rather wait until he's back at 9 than let the poor kid play and get to bed on time.

I'm a mess today.

I would wait until his temper has calmed down and approach him basically saying that i dont mind you speaking to your ex. Its none of my business but i would appreciate next time that if i ask you that you answer honestly.
But you know, i think he gets defensive you just asking. So its best that if that approach doesn't work anymore that you have to let it go and not bother you. Ignore the text messages cause it will eat you.
My DH also drives an hour and a half to pick up his kids EOW and has to drive back home. So its 3 hr total trip and he likes me along to have someone to talk to. Well his ex didn't like it either but i didn't waver. I kept coming up for the drive and stood my ground. The only diff is that my DH and his ex hate one another with a passion ...so very limited verbal exchange would happen. She was just pist off that she was seeing another woman other than herself with him. when my Son way born she hates him too!
You have to ignore her and put trust in your DH that its just talking that is happening between them and them being friends shouldnt be a problem unless you are insecure.
Get rid of your insecurity and dont fret if she laughs exaggerating. She knows it bothers you. Dont' let anyone , any human have power over you like that.

He said they talked for 3 minutes?

& that's why he was, uh, how late?

Anger is a good way to distract someone from the real issue:
you know, the best defense is a good offense.

The exchange "felt different" to her?
so why did he not correct her misunderstanding?

& you have an oppressive nature?
Well, you devil.
Calling his bluff like that, not letting it slide, yes I guess you must be an "oppressive" person.

"he just breezed past most of what i said and went to what he thought was the usual problem."

Ignoring or trivializing the other person's concerns, & "answering" questions with answers that don't answer the questions, are tactics to avoid dealing with the issue & weakening one's position;

just like when politicians do it, this isn't accidental.

The child's mother isn't the only one making "decisions" about the pick-up & drop-off time.

If *he* was concerned about his child getting to bed on time, he'd arrange for ex to drop off the child earlier or to drop her off with a relative or some such.

Keeping their daughter up late so they can see each other speaks for itself.

I think there is a part of me that really doesn't understand why he'd want to be friends (not polite, not friendly, but friends) with someone who speaks so negatively of me, that blames me for her marriage ending, which wouldn't make sense, b/c she'd have to blame him too.

I can't imagine being friends with someone (ex, friend, or relative) who openly discussed their disdain for my SO, DH, or whatever. Thats openly disrespectful to me and my relationship. So I guess, it hurts that he's so open to it.,
On top of all that, she doesn't even know me! How can she judge.

Once again, Maria, the advice about letting it all go is what i need to do. Its just a tough battle.

Keep, it may be that part of you that doesn't understand why he would be friends with her that causes him to think he better lie if he is. This doesn't by any means excuse him lying to you, but it may somewhat explain it. No matter how many times you have breezily said "it's cool, I'm glad you are friendly" if he can tell you don't really mean it he is going to be hesitant to let you in on the 'friendship.'

Maybe there is another level to this you need to explore a little bit more before you talk to him about it again. What is it you are really mad about? What is it that is really causing your grief? Is it lying? Is it doubt?

Sorry - it's my day to ask the tough questions.

The difficult part is that there IS a very valid reason why both of them would (and should) want to be friends with each other: their daughter. In order to be able to deal with things having to do with her and both of them, they should ideally get along. It's not IMPOSSIBLE if they can't get along, but it sure does make it a whole lot easier on everyone. They may just be trying to negotiate the iffy bounds between being friendly enough to cooperate and avoid cold tension & fighting but distant enough so that it isn't too flirty and inappropriate. The fact is, as long as they're both actively engaged in SD's life, they will have SOME sort of connection to each other, because circumstances will require coordination. And, interestingly, the better they get along, then with time they will actually have LESS to do with each other than if they didn't get along. It's when one or the other parent has to go nit-picking and raising a stink about every little thing that the involvement between former spouses gets excessive. Makes sense if you think about it that way, and should be a relief to hear. So there ARE good reasons ---that benefit everyone in the long-run--- for them to be at least "friend-ly", if not "friends". Sounds like they both may just need to refine the boundaries a bit better, but I think it's good that they get along. If you're not comfortable with the idea of he and ex getting along amicably (that's AMICABLY, not AMOROUSLY, which of course would not be good!) or if you feel like you can't trust him at his word (either because of his actions or because of your feelings), I would seriously consider whether or not you will marry him. Because, one way or the other --whether they get along or not-- she will somehow, sometimes, be a factor.

That said, he SHOULDN'T be lying to you about anything. That's not cool. If you can't believe what he says, her presence will haunt you no matter what.

JNM,

I've told him that no matter what he feels or assumes, that I always want us to be honest with each other. He doesn't believe he's been dishonest. I have a real issue with lies or white lies, or any form of lying, lol. So its really a rough subject for me. Perhaps we really jsut see some situations so differently.

I do need to really think and analyze my own feelings. because it makes no sense running in circles.

serenity,

I agree wholeheartedly that the best situation is if the ex's are friendly. I was thrilled when my DH (BF at the time) told me that he & ex got along GREAT. She was even friendly with me, at first. As he & I got more serious, THAT's when the problems started. She started 'nitpicking' and it was always a complaint about me or my kids affecting her daughter. She started calling & going to DH's work more frequently, sometimes just to 'chat'. The closer he got to me, the worse she got. He even told me that she said he was her best friend and he thought that she was acting like that because she was losing her best (only?) friend. Since we got married, it's been pretty impossible to be 'amicable' with her. If we don't bow down to her every whim, we are not being 'accommodating' enough for her.

OP may be in a situation where they are 'friendly' or the ex may not have let go and if he doesn't disengage & make it clear that OP is his partner & the ex is just a 'friend', then things may get out of hand and turn ugly.

The guy's ex thinks he's encouraging her;
he was late getting home, he lied to his new honey about it, & now he's taken an angry stance because she kept attempting to get him to acknowledge her complaint rather than allowing him to slide past it.

This isn't parents getting along for the sake of their child or even exes trying to get along;
this is flirtation & teasing & gameplaying.

I agree with IMA, our experiences are the same. The more serious we got the crazier BioMom got, showing up at work, needing to "talk" all the time, calling constantly.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she sent that text hoping to the holy father youd find it. I wouldnt of been happy if my husband had hung out with his ex for hours and then lied to me about it but thats just me. He actually has basically cut her off except for switching the girls off because she was still badly hung up and was having trouble moving on. He felt the only way shed get on with her life was if he made it painfully clear that they were over.

It sounds like your man might need to have "the talk" and do the same with his ex. Despite what some people will tell you the parents do NOT have to remain BESTEST BUDDIES to be good parents to their children. My husband is a fabulous father without being chummy with his ex-wife. He is actually a BETTER parent now because he doesnt have to deal with the stress of dealing with the drama that always follows biomom. He always got really foul when she was around....hahahaha. Poor guy.

I just remembered...it was so long that i forgot, few years after divorce, maybe like me and Xhusband had a thought of maybe trying to get back together. we did not do anything inappropriate, just talked about old times, i think i still had feelings for X, we ended up not getting back together (thanks G-d). My point is that I was not attached at that time, I mean I guess i was dating, but he actually was attached to someone. i wonder what would his at that time GF thought that he and his Xwife (me) are talking so much and getting together to discuss what? (mainly discussing why on earth we got divorced and how did it make our lives better when in reality it didn't and shouldn't we try again)

so i wonder if it is possible that your SO's X wants to get back together and he goes along? and maybe their relationship is not fully resolved? they were a family at some point...