Immediate control of temp. (I questioned this thinking the pan as well as the cast iron grates would hold the heat but have discovered a pot of potatoes or anything just about to boil over, turn down to low or simmer and the boiling stops immediately.) For any sauce you may make it would be a hugh advantage.
Being able to cook in a power outage.
Any pans will work, they do not have to be perfectly flat.
Moister meats from the gas oven.
I am a recent convert from electric and these are the first things I have found in my limited experience.

Gas ranges are more energy efficient should be a good one. Show him this article.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2064365_buy-energy-efficient-range.html

In addition, the energy losses in transmission lines are not usually visible to us consumers, but are very real and waste precious resourses. Solar panels may help a bit overall but most times can't deliver the power required to run a range well.

Actually, many think induction is superior to gas. So if you can't talk him into gas, you might find that you quite like induction.

Two big problems with induction (note that my opinion on induction is only semi-educated so correct me if I'm wrong):

All the ones I've seen are outrageously expensive.

All the ones I've seen are only cooktops. We need a slide-in range for our kitchen.

Keep those arguments coming. Some I've thought about but others are new.

1. Serious cooks prefer gas. That's the way it's always been, and your DH might as well question whether the sun would look better rising in the west. It's just one of those "everyone knows" things. I know a lot of it is the ability to immediately reduce heat on the stovetop instead of waiting for the electric coils to cool down. Chefkev or others, can you explain any better?

2. I went nosing around on grist to try to help you but nothing really leaped out at me. (I assume that if you have solar panels, you care about the planet and won't just dismiss grist. For those not in the know, www.grist.org is one of the very best sources for environmental news on the web, although some of the posters would probably be classed as left wing fringe radicals by many people.) Again, there is a general sense among greens that if you have the choice, gas is a greener alternative. Sorry I can't get you better detail than that.

3. Is dual fuel a good compromise for you?

Cork2Win gets my vote :)

If the fact that YOU are the primary user of the equipment, therefor YOU should get to choose it doesn't work?...then he's not open to login and reason to start with, so just burn the bejeezus out of everything you cook until he comes around.

:)

Jim

PB, at first I automatically assumed you knew what you wanted and was passing on, but that "Hate, hate, hate" sort of surprised and made me wonder what your experience of gas and electric might be. I've had both, an excellent gas range for the first couple of decades, only later followed by a mediocre-quality electric range, and was genuinely surprised to find the electric cooked just fine. Surprised because I'd also heard that "Serious cooks prefer gas."

I now know for myself as an independent thinker and I like to think a pretty decent cook (and cooking from scratch a couple times a day qualifies me as serious enough in my own mind at least) that benefits of gas over electric are grossly overstated for almost all cooking purposes. I mention that because, although I'd rather have gas overall--probably/maybe (electric has gotten so good I'm no longer sure), I'd now never give up anything important to get it as a tradeoff. Which I think a lot of poeple may be doing because, as everyone knows, "Serious cooks prefer gas," and who doesn't want to be cool and with it? BTW, induction is now seen as passably cool and would undoubtedly be totally cool (hot?) if they could only work some ironwork into the cooktop for a stronger visual presence.

However, if after careful consideration, it'd spoil your pleasure in your new kitchen to settle for anything else, then that's the all the reason you need. And I'm totally sincere.

I just have to step in and say, I'm a "serious" cook and I prefer induction. I had gas, induction is better.

You don't have to have gas to be a good cook. My mom was an awesome cook and used the old coil-type electric.

Jim: I just don't work like that, nor does our relationship.

rosie: I'm 40ish years old. Roughly half my life I've had electric, half my life I've had gas. I've been cooking since a rather young age so have lots of experience. For the kinds of cooking I like to do gas is far superior. It is not a matter of being cool. It's not a a matter of being seen as a "serious cook" (though I do take justified pride in my cooking skills).

Our sole reason for getting gas is because we hate not having any way to heat / cook during a power outage. Now that we've lived here in Colorado for a little over a year we've never had a power outage last longer than thirty minutes (in San Francisco we had them for days), so of course it figures that NOW we have gas!

While in theory I like induction I didn't like the fact of having to get rid of many of our pots and pans. I also didn't like that induction won't work if the power is out. (that was really the deal-breaker) The drop-in induction we tried did get hot (residual heat from the hot pan). Friends of my parents have induction burners underneath their lapis (yes, lapis) countertop, and that never got warm. But can you imagine the headache if you ever had to repair / replace the induction units?

Maybe in a future life we'll have induction, maybe we'll still have gas. But we shall NEVER have electric!

Good luck to you!

Well most of my reasons have already been listed:

1. Serious cooks use gas. Plain and simple. It is pretty much the only choice of professional chefs

2. Instant temperature control

3. Moister roasting

4. If you have the budget to go pro-style, you can get 22,000 BTU burners with the Bluestar (or 18K with some others) to enable you to do wok cooking almost comparable to a restaurant

5. Depending on the area of the country you live in, gas is less expensive than electric

Most of the above posters made the strong points, but I'll chime in as well. I love to cook, have been cooking and experimenting with various cuisines from Cajun to Thai & Indonesian since I lived in New Orleans way back in 1978 or so. I absolutely loathe my electric stove. Try bringing a pot of rice to a boil then turn it down to a low simmer. On my electric I have to move it 3/4 off of the burner for a long time, gradually moving it back little by little until the burner finally cools down. So instant heat control is a biggie. Much finer temp control is another. You can visually look at a gas burner and adjust to just the right heat, difficult or impossible to do with electric. Roasting peppers over an open gas flame if you want.
Induction is making a run, but I ended up going with a Bluestar RNB gas range in my new remodel. I didn't like having to use only certain cookware, and though I may be wrong, I don't think any induction can pump in the sheer BTU that a 22k burner can for wok cooking, where there is no substitute for high heat. Finally, walk into the kitchen of any good restaurant and see what they are cooking on. Not too many electrics. YMMV, just my own preference, developed over years of cooking on both.

- You can't char a pepper, roast a spitted clove of garlic, or light a cigarette on anything but a gas flame.

- Gas vastly superior for broiling (steak, broccoli, asparagus, fish, etc).

- Aesthetic preference for actually seeing the heat source - also, visual cue of flame is safer for little fingers.

- Natural gas putatively less environmentally wasteful than electric.

- Fingertip temperature control.

- Stable domicile heat (not just cooking heat) supply during emergencies/power outages.

The notion that "that's the way restaurants do it" is a good argument is pretty silly. Most restaurants have gas cooking equipment because it's cheaper to buy and operate. Were electric cheaper, they'd have electric. And, in fact, there are lots of restaurants that do. Go look somewhere where they'd have to spend a fortune to run ducts and install a fire suppression system, (It's really hard to put externally venting hoods anywhere but the top floor of a tall building!) and you'll find they've got electric cookers, though a fair amount of induction these days.

Food doesn't care where the heat comes from. And even a fairly cheap electric coil has as much effective output as all but the fanciest gas burners. (Gas burners spend more of their heat output heating the kitchen than they do the pot. The gas industry's trade association claims ~40% efficiency at transferring heat; all electrics do better, induction can reach nearly 90%.)

*Pleading* Rmkitchen, don't shoot me!

Ok, first off: I prefer gas to electric for two reasons - the instant response in getting from high to low and VV. TwoBengalsandme described my key problem with any and all my electric stoves perfectly - simmering rice was a nuisance and I had all but given up on making custards and white sauces as I simply couldn't make them reliably without *charring* the bottom. And as you know - if you char the milk, the entire sauce acquires the burnt-milk taste. I have a *nice* gas stove now and am so much the happier for it.

With that assertion out of the way, let me just say that:
- I have never before heard that gas is more efficient than electric. I'm sure the phenomenology of this claim should be well worth reviewing, but then again, you know the saying about lying with numbers (actually, there are entire tomes about this). I will confess that I opine without reading any of the recently cited references but the pure input to output thermal efficiencies of gas vs. electric appliances have long been overwhelmingly in the favor of electrics.
- Don't buy the dogma that "serious cooks use gas". Some pretty serious cooks also use coil-top electrics - I recall more than one NYTimes interview of a "serious" chef who was happy to have his small electric cooktop at home. This one is up there with "but mom! all the cool kids have xyz!".
- Circuspeanut, I don't have any objection to any of your points but I must say that I don't think I could bring myself to char anything directly over the open flame of my beautiful stovetop *smile*. I cringe thinking of my lovely wolf burners, grates and top getting vegetable juice charred on them! I char my capsicums, garlic, tomatoes, onions, eggplant etc. in my oven in broil mode - and that's electric oven for you!
:-)

Apparently there's one person on the appliances forum who things electric is better than gas. Under the 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em' category, maybe you could learn to appreciate a GOOD electric range. I can't say, as I've never experienced such a thing, but I thought the OP of the linked thread had some good points.

For me, being able to use gas when the power is out is a great point for wanting gas.

Here is a link that might be useful: electric better than gas?

I'm trying to figure out what solar panels have to do with an electric range.

I'd tell him that if an electric range came in my door that a body bag was going out the door.

bluekitobsessed: thanks for the website. For Hubby it's about economics more than anything but I am interested in that type of stuff.

ci_lantro: In Hubby's mind solar panels = free electricity = no paying to cook if we have an electric stove = saved money. For some reason he's all about saving $ these days.

Induction may be an alternative in terms of behavior, but I have yet to see one that is even remotely reasonable price-wise ($2K+ for just the burners is way beyond our budget). Nor have I seen one that is a full slide-in cooktop / stove unit. Whatever we get has to be both as our resources are severely limited.

I am thinking more about the dual-fuel option. But as we are getting a Velos or some equivalent micro/convection/speed cook appliance it wouldn't really be necessary.

Thanks everyone for all your input. I just love how passionate we can get about these issues.

I'll just say that I WISH I HAD GAS TO COOK ON!!!!! :(

My wife and I have an ALL ELECTRIC home and I do pretty
much all of the cooking...

Have you EVER tried to do really good STIR FRY on an
electric stove?? It TOTALLY SUCKS!!!

Or how about Fajitas??? not good either - I have to grill
them on our gas grill outside FIRST - then bring them in
and let them sit in the WOK wo finish...LAME!!!!!!!

MY VOTE WOULD BE FOR GAS!!!!!!!! YEAH BABY!!!!!

Pbrisjar--He doesn't seriously think he's going to wring enough juice out of solar panels to run an electric range, does he?

Because it's MY kitchen and I prefer it. Period. :-)

The cost of energy for cooking is negligible whether you go gas or electric. Get what you really want - tell your DH is stop being such a jerk :-)

mindstorm -- ???

We have solar panels on the roof and induction. Yes, the induction cooktop was expensive relative to an electric or a cheap gas one. I had a cheap gas cooktop at our old house and swore I'd never have one again. Could not simmer anything. Hated it with a passion. The older, wiser me now understands it was the quality of the appliance and not the cooking fuel.

However, it would have cost almost $3,000 dollars to run a gas line to my kitchen, and then I would have had to buy a good quality gas cooktop on top of that. For considerably less money I got a 36" all induction Thermador and new cookware.

We have the instant control, super fast boiling, really low simmer, and a nice flat surface that cleans with a wipe of cloth.

Another point, our electrical service is very reliable. I can't remember when we had a power failure, it has been years. But if so, we have the propane grill on the patio.

Although I recommend our induction, I do believe who ever does the majority or cooking and cleaning of the kitchen gets to make the final decision. Those induction ranges are very expensive, if he is all about saving money, you might be able to convince him that gas ranges and natural gas will be cheaper in the long run. Good Luck.

weissman, I couldn't agree more. Our gas bills are tiny (and the only thing we use gas in the house is for cooking).

pbrisjar, I would seriously consider throwing a tantrum over this one. I have had both and electric just made me not even want to cook. There is just no comparison particularly if you like to do sauces, simmers, and things where fine adjustments are needed.

rmkitchen, Sorry, sorry, sorry. Many apologies! Wandering in my mind. I confused you with another "r"-named poster who I had butted heads with and we were apparently on the same side!.

Just a note on the solar. I'm really interested in supplying my household electricity with photovoltaic panels. Since I'm just starting a whole house remodel, I got a bid. 1) My electric bill averages about $100.00/month for the year. 2) I have an ideal location, roof faces geographic south, nothing to block sun, 96% utilization according to the solar assessment. To supply 100% of my usage with an on-grid, net meter system, with inverter, installed, $56,000.00. It would be a 41 year payout at current prices. I'm still interested, but am going to wait a bit to see the technology mature (read cheapen) a bit:)

I understand your hate, hate, hate for an electric range: the burners take forever to heat and beyond forever to cool down. Meantime, you have to physically remove the about-to-boil-over pot because turning off the heat doesn't do anything. I had electric burners once and couldn't wait to get rid of them. Besides, they cost a fortune to run.

With gas, you can always cook during a power failure. It's bound to happen at least once a year, depending on where you live. And you can calibrate the heat so much better. I wouldn't have electric burners on a bet.

Thank you, mindstorm! More than you want to know about me, but I am PMSy and am esp. thin-skinned this week. (happens!) Yours is a name I know and like, and I wondered (& was concerned) how I'd ticked you off. Phew!

My recommendation would be to compromise with induction. But, you really need to grow a pair and inform your husband the kitchen is your domaine (if it is) and, unless he plans to start doing the cooking, you decide what goes in the kitchen.

- visual cue of flame is safer for little fingers. (funny) Or, in the alternative argument for electric ~ visual cue of flames coming from child that child is on fire due to open flame.

In the spirit of full disclosure, we have induction and couldn't be happier. My 36 inch GE Profile cost around 1700 after a sale and rebates. Best money I have spent in a long, long time.

Luckily, I don't smoke and have a grill 20 steps away for the RARE occasion I need to roast a pepper.

I started my 3 sons cooking by the time they were 8. I wouldn't have allowed them near an open flame stove for some time after that. Personally, I don't know if I would allow my 21 year old around one even now (Ha Ha)

Also, how does one heat a home with a gas stove? Sounds dangerous!

As to touch control .... my best friend (who has gas and fancys herself to be a "serious cook") has given my cook top a work out and has now decided she will go induction if she needs to replace her cooktop. She HATES the time it takes to clean her gas cooktop. My cooktop cleans up in 30 seconds with a paper towel no matter what I cook. If I cook something very oily, I can line everything with newspaper ~ no flame : P

rmkitch, Sorry for the confusion. I understand your state of mind (month?), I love your posts and your gorgeous marble (and gaggenau) kitchen pics and didn't mean to upset. That said, I adore the other r-poster also and am not ticked at her either. There was some consternation on evidently both our parts and I had a bit of a cackle at the end (not an evil one). That callout was meant to be funny (hopefully) and perhaps might have been if I hadn't tripped over both my feet in making it. ;-)

About those peppers- I've roasted them on electric coils. I just put the pepper right on the coils and use tongs to rotate it now and then. Its imperfect, to be sure, and not something I make a habit of.

As for the induction unit not coming as a full range, some people get around this by installing a wall oven under the induction cooktop. It makes the cooking racks on the oven rather low to the floor. But it is a possibility.

I agree that the costs of running the appliance to cook must be really minimal. I can't imagine that its worth a rift in the relationship.

ci_lantro: Yes, that is Hubby's plan. He wants to get us "off the grid". I don't really think it's economically feasible, though.

twobengalsandme: That was my suspicion. I just have to show him the numbers. Had to do that with wind power, too. Our location would be prime for wind but in order to get a windmill large enough to power a home you have to have at least an acre of land. We live in a suburban tract home. That's not to mention the expense.

cat_mom: The kitchen, just like the rest of the house, belongs to both of us equally. There is no "mine".

Kids aren't an issue. Neither one of us came to this relationship with children and we cannot have them together for a variety of reasons.

We already have gas at the house (water heater and furnace). All we'd have to do is tap into the already existing line.

Stir fries, curries, there's so many things you can't do on electric - at least not well. Can you do them on induction, though?

I've actually been thinking about induction as a reasonable compromise. My hesitations are the cost, the whole not having a slide-in unit issue and not knowing about its true high heat capabilities (as in can it do a good stir fry).

ok seriously....from an industery insider (we own an oil ang gas services co) electric will outpace your gas costs in the not so distant future. for probably every reason above, and our knowledge of the comodity...we're turning as many appliances as possible to gas (range/hot water heat/dryers/etc)

I agree w/ Igloochic & also have an industry insider perspective--DH retired from an interstate gas pipeline company. I have seriously considered switching out my electric dryer for a gas one but is too complicated in the set-up I currently have.

Also, it costs substantially more to heat a home w/ electric vs gas so I can't imagine that cooking w/ gas would be much more expensive than electricity even factoring in the 'inefficiency quotient'.

And, it would seem to me that 'getting off the grid' would be an argument FOR cooking with gas.

Instead of making an argument 'For', tell him to provide you with answers to the following questions:

What extent of a solar panel array would be required to support an electric range, electric water heat, electric household heat? On a suburban tract lot? What zoning restrictions? How much space required for battery storage? Where will the batteries be stored? What kind of batteries? Lead acid? What about the fumes & danger of explosion? Will your homeowner's insurance allow such an installation? How do you convert DC from batteries to run an AC appliances? And what is the life expectancy of appliances subjected to an 'unsteady' power supply? What happens when the batteries poop out in the midst of cooking Thanksgiving dinner? How much to estimate for wasted/ half cooked food?

I thought of another one. I had a Thermador electric which was a good relief from my old JenAir coil. It went to hi almost immediately but then --- I had a boil over of potatoes, I wasn't right there at the moment and the sugar of the potatoes permanently etched the top of the range. I called about having a new ceran top and I could have bought a cheap range for the cost. I do believe a boil over can happen to even the best of cooks.

I would think that the thought of you being miserable cooking on a surface you hate would be enough of a reason for him to see gas as the only reasonable option. Why would he want you to be miserable? I feel the same way about electric, and any time I have to cook on it (vacation rentals, friends' homes), I feel helpless--and I grew up with electric! Although some others here apparently disagree, I don't think that the difference can be overstated. Most of the cooking I do is a pleasure on gas and either difficult/impossible or a burden on electric.

And, dscheidt, I completely disagree with your contention that most restaurants would use electric if it were cheaper. I know many chefs who would refuse to cook without gas. One chef friend flipped when he heard I got an Aga, because he thought it was the kind without gas burners. Another friend who recently opened a restaurant had to go to considerable expense to have a gas line run into the building he bought, but he wouldn't have considered going without it. Anyone doing cooking that requires any kind of precision (e.g., sauces) demands gas.

Let's put some human nature into this equation. Your husband has given you his reasoning for not wanting gas. And it's all energy related.

That's not the real reason. You need to find out his real reason and here's how you do it. Think about this for a minute:

There are two reasons why people do something. The first reason is the reason that sounds good, the second reason is the REAL reason.

To find out his real reason ask him again why he doesn't want gas. Let him go on and on about his energy issues. When he's done, ask him this question: "Sweetheart, is there another reason in the back of your mind for not wanting gas?" Then shut up and let him answer that question. It may take him a little time but he will answer it. And when he does, answer the question to his satisfaction and you'll get your gas stove.

Try it. See what he says.

chuckg: You're probably right. There may just be another reason he's not sharing now. OTOH, maybe not.

I think as a non-cook he just doesn't really understand. He thinks I can just adapt. His family uses electric as well so he has no perspective on it.

Great advice so far-- I hesitate to offer my suggestion, but prehaps it will add something.

I was very much in the same position as you. Hated my electric coils and excited about getting a gas range. Unfortuantely before my renovation could even begin, the coils just stopped working-- so I HAD to buckle down and buy something as a temporary means of boiling water, etc. So while investigating "hot plates/electric burners" I came across induction stand alone units. WAYYY more expensive than typical $20 units and I wondered way. did some investigating and then decided it would be worth it just to get a little taste of what induction is really like-- who knows, if I loved it, I might just go with that permanently. I doubted I'd love it, but I also figured there must be a good reason why so may people loved them so much.

So I bought a "Mr. Induction" off amazon-- I think it was around $150. WOW! It is merely a stand alone, so it doesn't have the power what I will some day enjoy, but the power is truely on par with what I have experinced with a typical gas range-- and is somehow even more responsive! I've never used a super high end gas range, so I can't compare induction to that, but I had problems with keeping a very low flame steady, but with the Mr. Induction, it can go REALLY low and it is completely steady. The "flame" never goes out. I also got it hot enough to stirfry with-- merely satisfactory performance, but I imagine a true induction drop with at least double to power of my little stand alone will be fantastic to stir fry with.

Anyway, I encourage you to try the stand alone induction unit. It will show your husband you are taking his concerns really seriously and it isn't that much of an expense in the whole scheme of things-- plus you can use it in the future to keep things warm during a buffet dinner party, or even just sell it-- super easy resale on Craigslist, for sure! And you might just find that you love the technology anyway! How cool is it that you can place a sheet of newspaper on the cooktop, put your skillet on top, fry up chicken that splatters grease everywhere, then bunch up the greasy newspaper and toss when you are done? Easy clean up, no gas fumes, little heat loss into your room kicking up work for the air conditioner and consistent and fast temperature control. I'm a convert-- maybe you will be too! Cost can be kept down-- my GE cooktop is $1500. You can get wall ovens pretty cheap. I imagine you can certainly get a middle brand range induction cooktop and wall oven for less than a high end gas range. And I like having the cooktop and oven it seperate locations.

good luck!

pbrisjar- you say the kitchen is equally both of yours. But you do all the cooking. Its simply rational thinking that the person who does all the cooking should have the weighted vote on the appliance that does all the cooking.

Cooking is reality. Being completely off grid is fantasy. Or, if its not fantasy, you can switch back to electric when he gets the rest of the house off grid. If your range is the only thing getting in the way of his fantasy, then I'd give his vote for being off-grid more weight than it currently has.

pbrisjar- There is the other major reason why he's balking.

I certainly don't want to get you into any arguments with your husband. That's not my intention in the slightest. There will however come a time, soon, where this subject will come up again, naturally. You probably won't have to bring it up. He will. And when he does, you can think to yourself, "OK turkey, I'm ready for you." :) Then pop the question. He'll tell you his major reason. Just listen to him and let him talk. Don't interrupt him. And be nice and smile at him. Flash your eyelids at him if you want. :) He'll melt. Make it fun because it is.

This technique puts you in control of the conversation. Prepare for the big day....it's coming soon. :)

One more thing-- the power on my Mr. Induction unit is so controlled and steady that I can melt chocolate chips without a double boiler set up and without any fear of scorching. Just slowly and sweetly melts.

In the past we have had both all gas, and all electric kitchens. Three kitchens ago we went gas cooktop and electric oven. Would never go back.

hey there
this sort of reminds me of the "should I put in dishwasher in my new kitchen ?"question
I am an professional /avid home cook . When we bought this house 12 years ago I had to leave my gas range behind and live with electric for some time ....we just installed the new gas range and i am in heaven again ..
here are my reasons for hubby
1. I think it cooks faster (could be just I was used to the old slow electric I had) and it certainly stop the cooking when you turn off the burner
2.Resale - I think most people are looking for a gas range
3.They look great in a newly remodeled kitchen
4 If you have ever had to go without power for a couple of days, you would never go without gas

I didn't read the whole thread so no doubt someone has already said this but just in case....

Exactly how much of your electric and/or gas bill is directly attributable to your range? Seriously, a few dollars? And the difference between gas & electric, would be how much of that? I may be way off, but in my house, the major drain on electric is the air conditioner in the summer.Wwithout the AC (in the winter) my electric bill is pretty small, so it's easy to see that all the other appliances in the house just don't cost me all that much to run.

My gas bill -- most of it is directly attributable to my hot water heater. How much of my gas bill comes from the cooktop (which is gas)? I can't imagine it's very much at all!! Do you intend to keep your range ON all the time? If so, then yeah, you probably want to do a real energy cost comparison. But since I doubt you'll do that, the difference in cost, no matter whether it's gas or electric that's higher $$, has got to be small enough to be negligible.

The whole argument of which is cheaper for your range is just plain silly. For me, spending all those $$, all that time and effort and inconvenience for a kitchen remodel would be totally wasted if the one who does the cooking is unhappy in the end. And looking to save a few $ a month by buying an appliance the cook doesn't want to use, is IMHO penny-wise and pound-foolish.

I shouldn't even respond here, but can't ever resist the gas versus electric debate. One obvious thing ALWAYS comes to my mind. Cooking with gas is HOT. It makes me sweat! I don't know how anyone can get around that argument. I would have to turn on the AC to cook with gas...that's not saving me any money. I have purchased an induction cooktop for my remodel. Have not used it yet so I can't comment if I will like it or not. But one thing I know for sure.....it won't make me sweat. hehehehehe!