Oh and I *need* a pullout garbage!

Just got home from a long busy day and I'm not the expert but I know how to bump a thread! Hope someone will see this and offer help.

ps You're an artist!

(I will look at it when I catch my breath and the kids are in bed... but I can't promise that it will be helpful.)

Hi Mikomum,

Sorry I didnt' get back to you yesterday. How exciting for you to be able to add such a wonderful amount of space! Almost like a completely blank slate.

Just one thing to begin with: it's very difficult to see your 2nd overall layout to tell what everything is. I can make out fridge, stove DW and sinks but can't read any words otherwise. Looks like wall oven(s) on the 2nd, but I don't see that on the 1st. And is the MW b/t the desk and fridge on the 2nd?

Also, for others who might look at this, clear markings of all windows, doors, measurements, what parts are flexible/inflexible, etc. would be helpful. Also it might be helpful to know where the current kitchen is and which way it will be bumped.

(Have you seen the Read Me thread? It has tons of helpful info to get you started if you haven't seen it.)

A couple of things that come to mind (sorry if this sounds jumbled, I'm just trying to get this sent to you and can't organize thoughts well):

How many/how old are your kids? Will they be helping to cook?

Will your DH also be cooking or are you the primary one in the kitchen most of the time?

What is it about having a desk that appeals to you?

Is there anywhere else you could put the pantry besides in the corner? Do you need/want a walk-in pantry or will a set of cabinets work just as well for you?

Is that corner already cropped 45 degrees, or is that in the future portion? I think squared corners generally work better than angles or curves.

I like the first layout better than the second. The second one looks too spread out, and the island is obstructive, though if you could move the range up a little along that wall it would facilitate movement better on the second. However, it looks like the island sink is the prep sink and the cleanup sink is by the window. If that is the case, you will want the DW next to the big sink. Could it go to the right of the big sink?

Quickly, here's a thought; wish I could superimpose on your LO but don't know how. I'm assuming that corner can be 90 degrees. I also haven't tried to figure out measurements for all appliances, etc. I am including a wall oven.

On left wall, tall pantry cabinets including dish storage
Around the corner, put sink in #1 location (further to left, from what I can tell)
DW to right of sink
Range/cooktop in #1 location of MW
Squared corner
Around the corner
Wall oven
Fridge
MW/kid
Still have space for the desk if you really want it. Though it is a matter of preference, many here have good reasons not to have one, chiefly that they tend to become clutter magnets. I see that you want doors on it, and I'm trying to picture how that would work to keep clutter down and still be a useful thing to have.

If you have 12" deep tall pantry cabinets on the left wall, your island can go across as in #1 and be at least 7' wide.

The other things you listed above could be fit into that space.

Maybe that will get you started, and I hope someone else will chime in because I'm generally not a big picture person so I know I've missed something.

My one question to you before you get all involved in planning this layout with adding that space is, have you talked with some local contractors to get a feel for how much this will cost you? You're talking about removing a load bearing wall and moving plumbing and all kinds of expensive stuff. Kitchen remodels by themselves average 30K. With the structural issues and addons that you are looking at doing, this will run you 150-250K+ depending on what area of the country you live in. Are you OK with spending that amount? Will that fit in with the neighborhood? Or, are you "over improving"? What would that 150K when added to the price you could get for your home get you in your locale?

Renovating is exciting! It's also expensive, dirty, and lengthy. And you have to be sure that you're gaining value for the money you spend, even if you think you'll never move from that house. Life happens. And, if you embark on a 150K remodel and have to move the month after it's done, would that be something that you could deal with?

(Have you seen the Read Me thread? It has tons of helpful info to get you started if you haven't seen it.) Yup!

How many/how old are your kids? Will they be helping to cook?

------We have two children, 3 and almost 6 and they do like to help in the kitchen. They also set and clear the table with help from DH.

Will your DH also be cooking or are you the primary one in the kitchen most of the time?

------I'm the primary cook although he does help with cleanup

What is it about having a desk that appeals to you?

------I need somewhere other than my kitchen cupboard for cell phones, phones, calenders, school notes etc. I'd also like to move my laptop off the kitchen table! I know kitchen desks often become clutter collectors which is why I want doors. :)
------The plan is to have doors that recess, like an armoire (sp?) so that I can close it when I need to but have it open a good portion of the time. I probably reference my calender 8x a day! We have no where else to have an 'information center'. Mudroom space is too precious living in a very northern location (hockey bags, winter boots, coats, giant dog bowls/food backpacks etc.)

Is there anywhere else you could put the pantry besides in the corner? Do you need/want a walk-in pantry or will a set of cabinets work just as well for you?
Is that corner already cropped 45 degrees, or is that in the future portion? I think squared corners generally work better than angles or curves.

------Our back entry will be recessed into the house to allow for the rooflines, hence the 45 degree angle. We need to do this to allow enough room between the detached garage and the house---so it's in the plans--- not the existing house. Our builder is still working on the roofline/back entry but I doubt the 45 degree will change. I'd like a walk in pantry since we buy a ton from costco and those large boxes don't work well in pull out storage. I'm not sure where else to locate the pantry.

I like the first layout better than the second. The second one looks too spread out, and the island is obstructive, though if you could move the range up a little along that wall it would facilitate movement better on the second. However, it looks like the island sink is the prep sink and the cleanup sink is by the window. If that is the case, you will want the DW next to the big sink. Could it go to the right of the big sink?

-----The dishwasher could go by the big sink but this is where I'm bucking the trend (so far---not 100% set in stone yet). I though about using the 'prep' sink to scrape dishes etc. so that DH and the kids don't need to come into my work zone when they are cleaning up from the table. They can clean off the table while I wash counters from the main sink. It gives us more room to maneuver around an open dishwasher too. My aunt designed the set-up at our former multi-family lodge much the same way and it works so well with a crowd.

Quickly, here's a thought; wish I could superimpose on your LO but don't know how. I'm assuming that corner can be 90 degrees. I also haven't tried to figure out measurements for all appliances, etc. I am including a wall oven.

On left wall, tall pantry cabinets including dish storage
Around the corner, put sink in #1 location (further to left, from what I can tell)
DW to right of sink
Range/cooktop in #1 location of MW
Squared corner
Around the corner
Wall oven
Fridge
MW/kid
Still have space for the desk if you really want it.
----I'll try drawing that out, thanks

If you have 12" deep tall pantry cabinets on the left wall, your island can go across as in #1 and be at least 7' wide.

----- I was wondering about that! Where would you cut them off?

Maybe that will get you started, and I hope someone else will chime in because I'm generally not a big picture person so I know I've missed something.

------Thanks so much! I will try to re-draw the second plan too, I realize taking a photo of a picture isn't the best option.

* Posted by live_wire_oak (My Page) on
Thu, May 6, 10 at 11:28

My one question to you before you get all involved in planning this layout with adding that space is, have you talked with some local contractors to get a feel for how much this will cost you?

-----Yes, we've gotten some ballpark figures from our builder and have just helped my brother and sister in law through their major reno (same contractor/builder).

You're talking about removing a load bearing wall and moving plumbing and all kinds of expensive stuff.

-----Yes---scary but do-able, we'll be doing some of the grunt work.

Kitchen remodels by themselves average 30K. With the structural issues and addons that you are looking at doing, this will run you 150-250K+ depending on what area of the country you live in. Are you OK with spending that amount?

-----Yup. We hope to keep it around 160 with a 15% overage which would be on track with my brother's reno on a comparable house.

Will that fit in with the neighborhood?

----- We live in a town of 1500---there aren't really 'neighborhoods'. Some of the most expensive houses in town are in-fill lots.

Or, are you "over improving"?

----We might be over improving somewhat but we have a large yard, corner lot and houses here tend to hold their value.

What would that 150K when added to the price you could get for your home get you in your locale?

----We'd be able to get a very basic 'builder-spec' 1500ft house on a tiny lot (the new lots in town are very $$$) or an older, 2000sqft house (that would need as much work as ours currently) on a big lot or a run-down acreage. There is never much for sale here.

Renovating is exciting! It's also expensive, dirty, and lengthy. And you have to be sure that you're gaining value for the money you spend, even if you think you'll never move from that house. Life happens. And, if you embark on a 150K remodel and have to move the month after it's done, would that be something that you could deal with?

---This is our situation: My husband works for my Dad in a large family business (4th generation). I own the house next door, outright, it's a small pre-war bungalow that I've renovated into my pottery studio, we've combined the two back yards and I've got a large perennial garden, raised veggie beds and 'regular' garden for root veggies. We got a great deal on the house we live in and were able to buy it with a 10 year mortgage (4 left) since we sold our 3 year old *shiny* house in the city and made a substantial amount on the sale. I can't see us buying a different house because of my studio and we plan on being here for at LEAST 15-20 years. We re-did all of the flooring before we moved in (I used to work as a designer/estimator for a hardwood flooring company in the city)so the flooring budget will be fairly low as we'll be adding on hardwood (prefinished) in the new area only. Just finished the main bath reno. We've qualified for a home equity loan and we have some money tucked away as well. We're not going high-end. We'll be living in our 5th wheel trailer in our back yard during the reno so I'll have a functioning kitchen and we'll be able to use our bathroom in the house for showering/bathing through *most* of the reno. The plan is to put temporary fencing between the back yard and the construction. My parents live 1 1/2 blocks away for laundry and emergencies. We have a sea-can lined up for storage during the reno (DH's business has extra). We also have access to a large truck for hauling away debris. Again, we're hoping to do a lot of the site-cleanup to keep costs down. Our builder is very conscientious and he and his wife do about 65% of the work themselves.

Thank you for the points to ponder--I realize we're not the 'norm' but I wasn't sure how much of this I should put out there. ;)

How about trying the range on the angled wall?

{{gwi:1853260}}

rhome, I think you may be onto something with the angled range. I tried to draw it out once put couldn't get the proportions right for the life of me! If I did that I could get away with having little to no upper shelving on my south wall! That is quite appealing. Love your kitchen, btw.

Thanks!

I was going to post the drawing I did of the range, but I pulled the range out a bit too far into the room...and I thought Bmore's was better! And it probably has more uppers than you want on the South side. But here it is anyway:

I should have explained that I thought the shallow cabs could be a combo of dish storage and pantry.

ok, I re-worked some of those ideas and hopefully got measurements etc. marked a bit better. This is so helpful!!!

bmore---I like the island, island table but I'm not sure it would work for us. It just seems like a lot to get around. I'm just trying to imagine navigating the kitchen with 2 little kids and my looooooong tall 90 pound greyhound in there.

I'm LOVING the idea of having an entire wall of windows with no upper cabinets. I think every 'dream kitchen' I've drooled over has a long bank of windows over the sink. I have a great 4 season view out the back. I think I would do a range hood and then not have any upper cabinets until over the fridge. I imagine that would make install on that weird corner easier too.

I think I could get away without a corner pantry with this configuration. Perhaps have part of the pantry uppers open or glassed in for my pottery collection (which gets used frequently) a 12 inch depth would hold all but my biggest platters. I don't mind having dead space under the book/open shelf space to the left of the dishwasher. I think the dishwasher placement here would still keep table-clearers out of my way too.

How do you plan the microwave cove? I'm thinking it might look weird to go from zero uppers to the big fridge with a cab above and an upper for the micro. I might be able to work on a 3D for you so you can see it...but I suspect a family emergency is going to take a lot of my day tomorrow, so I'll get to it ASAP.

If you're going for Craftsman, does that mean dark counters? A wood or stainless hood?

rhome, I'm hoping I can stick with the drawing in my original post for a microwave cove. The microwave would be set up 5" or so above the regular height countertop to allow for a landing zone for a hot plate or bowl in front. That would make it low enough for my 6 year old. I thought about having a small drawer in that 5" space or even just a built up ledge. I don't want to do a built-in microwave. My inlaws are strangely obsessed with microwaves and buy us a new one every 5 years whether we need it or not!

Definitely dark counters. In a dream world I'd have natural cherry cabinets (mmmmmm....cherry wood...I'm such a wood snob) but I have a feeling I'll be settling for a stained birch. I know rift-sawn oak is more traditional but I think it would also be out of our price range. I'm not sure on whether to go stainless or wood for the vent hood. I'm leaning towards wood at this point--I'll have to find some Craftsman examples. My contractor does very nice finishing trimwork so I could probably design just about anything.

I'm not sure about the cabinet over the fridge either. I could do a more recessed one (we're both tall)I want to take all the upper cabinets and desk to the 8ft roof with trim if possible.

Thanks so much! Hope everything is ok with the family.

Sorry...Forgot about your drawings up above! Up too late, I guess. But, I'm waiting for word on my parents who are at the hospital after both taking a spill...One slipped and fell, and the other followed suit trying to help!

Oh my goodness, rhome, I pray there aren't any broken bones and that they will recover quickly!

So glad others chimed in for you, mikomum.

You probably know more about MWs than I do, but our salesman told us to plan on getting one about every 8 years anyway so not to go too fancy on it. So maybe your in-laws are onto something. : )

Is the island without a prep sink primarily for storage, or do you plan to do the main prep there also? If main prep, you may still want a sink there. Also I'm sure you've thought through aisle width, and it's great that you have so much room to play with, but the 54" from island to window counter seems like a lot. It's also more than 4' from the corner of the island to the range, which is a long way to go with food prepared for cooking. Moving it 1' north would still give you more than 3' from range to corner.

Another thought about the island... you could turn it 90 degrees and extend it if you wanted more seating. The aisle behind seating would be ample, your work area would still be defined, and you could add more length to the long side for more seating. Also, if you are prepping there, with a sink, you can still look out the window easily.

I almost forgot about the wall oven. It looks like you are making your appliance decisions based on your layout rather than your layout being appliance-driven. Was that a second oven or was it cooktop and primary oven?

Since you mentioned bulk items, will you now have a place for them since the WIP is eliminated? (I know I suggested it to begin with, just trying to keep everything in mind.)

I love my wall of windows with no uppers. Since you mentioned wanting to keep an eye on the kids, I think that will feel much more accessible. One thing comes to mind: if something happens in the backyard and you need to get out quickly, that's a long way to go to get there. On the one hand, I personally don't like the thought of having too many exterior doors, just as many as needed; OTOH I'd feel hemmed in and frustrated (the way my kids operate, anyway). Often all that's needed is a word through the window, but I like having a door close by just in case).

Since you have a DW, do you really spend that much time in front of the sink? Kitchen studies show you spend very little time cleaning up compared to prepping food....
70% of the time in the kitchen is spent prepping
20% of the time is spent cleaning up
10% of the time is spent cooking

What makes the most sense to have in front of the window then? Your Prep Zone.

If you only have one sink, then I can see making sure it's in front of a window b/c your Prep Zone will end up on the side of the sink with the range or cooktop. However, if you have a prep sink for the Prep Zone so you have better separation of the Prep & Cooking Zones and the Cleanup Zone, then maybe the locations should be rethought.

***** OK...the above was written early yesterday morning b/f others posted (I had to get to work so no time to finish). *****

Interestingly, we all seemed to have come up w/the same idea...corner range, pantry on the other side.

There are minor differences, but this is what I came up with:

Note that instead of a desk, I put in a Message Center....similar but it's for things like keys, phone, charging station, etc. as well as mail, calendar, etc.

It also has a Snack Center that includes the Refrigerator, MW, and a sink that can also be used as a Prep Sink as well as a water source for snackers or washing hands. (Store snacks, snack dishes like kids cups, silverware, plates, etc. in upper cabs & drawers--there's a deep drawer under the MW Drawer.) It also keeps the kids (and other snackers) out of the working part of the kitchen but the cooks can still easily access the refrigerator & MW.

Trash & Recycle bins are located so they can be conveniently accessed from (1) both Prep Zones, (2) Cooking Zone, (3) Cleanup Zone, (4) Snack Center, and (5) island.

The 48" aisles allow you to have several people working at the various zones plus the island. The most important aisle is probably the one b/w the island and refrigerator.

The island is over 6.5' long and seats 3 w/a 15" overhang. If you have room to expand farther "down", you could put some storage under the seating side of the island for seldom used items in addition to the 15" overhang for the seats. But, don't make it any deeper than twice your arm length (so you can wipe it down...one arm length on each side.)

I expanded the window so you can see into the backyard from both the Prep Zone & Cleanup Zone. People sitting at the island can also see out the back window. I think you'll have plenty of cabinet space so I think you should make the window as wide as possible to take advantage of the view & light! Right now it's 96" (8') wide, you could make it another 2or 3 feet wider if you wanted to...and I would if I were you!

If you drink coffee or teak, I was thinking you could put a Coffee/Tea Center to the left of the DW...out of the way of the kids, no need to enter the working part of the kitchen to get to it, near a water source, and near mug storage.

I like to keep the kids away from the cooking-prep zone, but yet allow them to cook. The second island is their place for that. It's also a way to deal with guests if you put the food or drink there for parties or kids.

One thing you want to think about in your plan above is the arrangement of pantry-ref-sink-range. Both primary and shorter cooks need to go to both side walls and the sink and will probably cut behind the chef a lot. So - lotta running around and little protection for person at the range.

I like plans that have food, sink and cooktop in tight areas. There should be a way to shortcut the running around - like pantry becomes a dish hutch, desk/micro becomes pantry. Micro goes into side of the island. Add a desk on the blank wall beyond the dish pantry.

Add a sink to the island. The point of sink in the island is to help shortcut the running around. Ref drawers or beverage refs are another way to help with running around issues, but I'm not seeing a better place to locate some.

Lastly, these are concerns about the raised bar. They are rough for the very young, people with physical issues and the elderly to use. Using the ends of the island is a little hard (which end is hard depends on whether you are right or left handed which also controls which elbow becomes black and blue), and its rough to clean the center without a mop.

Its hard when you've fallen in love with your elevations. Been there, done that, many times, I never learn. I have drawn many things for my kitchen that were much prettier than what I'm actually implementing. After spending quality time with planning issues, looking at how well the pretty stuff worked and whether it forced something else to not work, most times I put them down and walk away. Its like breaking up with your boyfriend - it hurts. You get over it.

Details and pretties can be added to any floorplan - usually styling changes it a bit. Consider your goals for rebuilding the kitchen, get the space roughly arranged and THEN do elevation sketches.

I have enough confidence in your design abilities from your sketches to say that you'll do a gorgeous kitchen working with any plan. In our own ways, we're trying to help make the plan work.

Jsweenc, I would love it if a microwave lasted 8 years! We have one that's still working that my BILs gave us for a wedding present in 1985...In DH's office, since it's small and underpowered for us now...but the rest have not been as durable.

Buehl, I think you missed her plan and was looking at mine. She has much more window to see out from anywhere, including prepping between sink and stove. Wouldn't you rather have her prep sink in the island instead of facing the wall and splitting that counter space? I'm just curious as you don't usually have a placement like that. Mikomum, it'll be nice to have prep space in multiple places so you can choose to look out the window or see and visit with those in the family room across the island.

I, at some point, had the same question as Jsweenc about the oven, then let the thought slip away...Do you want wall ovens? If you do, let's try to fit them in, as having your kitchen properly outfitted is most important. In Buehl's plan I'd move the prep sink to the island and put the oven by the fridge.

I am with Bmorepanic on the prep sink and having a one-level island. I hadn't realized that was a 2nd island in your plan, Bmore, and I thought it was excellent without. If the main island is one level, you don't think that's enough room for young workers to join in? It wouldn't do me any good to have them so far out of the loop...But I also like the 2 island idea if it doesn't crowd the table too much.

Where I agree that renderings can look pretty, I genuinely use them to discover faults not always seen in 2D and that was my intent, besides getting a feel for the overall look...as I think everyone knows (I hope) that I'm a layout over looks person. Fit and space don't always show correctly in pencil drawings...but I also thought that she was nearing in on a good working layout enough to take a look.

Lots to consider, Mikomum...Which is good! It's nice to have a space that allows options.

Jsweenc...Thanks for caring/asking. No broken bones, but possibly 2 concussions... One went home late last night, and one is in the hosp for a couple days, where I'll be when visiting time rolls around.

rhome, glad to hear there was nothing broken. Hope the concussions are mild and they have a speedy recovery. Falling is always so scary, I just went through a bad fall/injury with my 94 year old grandmother.

Wow, you have all given me lots to think about! I feel like I'm making progress, so that's a good thing. Thank you for the plans too, I'm such a visual person.

Interesting about the island too. I would actually prefer a counter-level bar/overhang but I'm scared to have my kitchen THAT open to the dining room and living room. I'm a realist--even in a brand new kitchen I know I'm not the tidiest. I have seen islands with a build-up in the center for display (it also houses the plug-ins) I wonder if I could go that route or are those just silly?

I originally had the sink in the island but it was rather close to the Cleanup sink and then I got to thinking about a Snack Center for her that would keep the kids all corralled in one place for snacks (much like BmorePanic's second island). There is so much counter space on the wall b/w the sink & range and she stated she liked to watch the kids in the back yard, so I assumed she would prefer to prep on the window wall. That's why the area next to the Prep Sink is the "secondary" Prep Zone, not the primary.

By putting the prep sink where I did, I thought it would be close enough to use for cooking (like filling/dumping pots) if no one is in the Snack Center but still far enough away to allow not only some workspace to the right of the range but also some separation b/w the Snack Center and Cooking Zone. By having the counter to the right of the sink and over the MW, I thought it would encourage the kids/snackers to stay in that area and not drift over to the range (unless, of course, curiosity gets the better of them!)

Actually, I didn't see anything past your 19:30 thread when I finished my post so I didn't see her latest 10' window (I didn't refresh b/c I had a slow connection at the time) I love all those windows! 10 feet of windows to the counter will give her a fantastic view and a lot of light!

RHome410...glad to hear it was nothing serious w/your parents! I hope the parent who is in the hospital is doing fine and will be coming home soon!

The other small island would for kid storage and micro so they can cook "breakfast cereal" and cheese sandwich, etc. all by themselves. It might contain their plastic wear and possibly some games or supplies. It can be elevated or left cabinet height.

I'm not talking about computer elevations. I was thinking of mikomum falling in love with the cabinet vignettes she sketched. When I do hand drawn, detailed elevations, I'm usually seriously in love. I think everyone's hand drawn ones are evocative of the feelings they want to experience in the kitchen. The drawings can be so expressive!

I didn't see buehl's plan before posting. I'm not in the zone today - misted brain cells. Everybody take care.

I completely get what you mean now about the hand drawings...They have love and character attached! :-)

Mikomum, any new thoughts about alternatives you want to see? I may get to drawing this this afternoon.

Parental update: I spent the night with them, and they have come through pretty well...Mom's subdural hematoma looked stable/improving by early yesterday, and they were confident she was ok to go home that evening. They are sore, and Dad's carpal tunnel repair took a beating, but no broken bones, and amazingly, no headaches. The scariest part was that the people who helped them up after the falls in a restaurant parking lot, let them drive off, dazed, Mom very confused, and both bleeding...Dad with a bloody nose and Mom with a lacerated artery on her chin that was soaking through a towel the restaurant gave her. I'm betting the restaurant's insurance company would have a heart attack over this if they knew... (My sister plans a good conversation with the manager and their corporate office.)

Your latest plan, plus that plan with the micro cubby replaced with micro and wall oven cabinet. I tried to put a separate oven stack and the micro cubby, but with the desk, there was too little space between the corner cooktop and the oven.

Oh my gosh! You've made me cry happy tears on Mother's day, seriously! I'll have to take a look at everything but I'm really liking the the layout of the last two. See? So much for my microwave idea! LOL. Love the green, that's our current accent color (almost by default---large paintings). That's even our wall color. Eerie :). Our hardwood runs the opposite direction but otherwise that's a bang on 'squint and see your kitchen'.

I'm thinking to close a few of the upper pantry shelves but I'm not sure which ones, the middle? I want to show this to DH, I know he'll have a better idea now, seeing it in 3D.

Thank you ALL for your ongoing help and comments. I popped onto the computer for a breather, back outside for spring planting! It's always my favorite way to spend Mother's day and about the earliest we can possibly plant without a greenhouse.

Happy Mother's Day! I also just ran in from working on getting my garden boxes ready for planting. No use doing it before now here either.

If you want some closed pantries, I could see enclosing the middle section, maybe even making that part a little larger, and bumping it out a few inches just for interest? All depends on the ratio of pantry to display shelves you want. You may also want to use some of the open shelves for cookbooks.

We can adjust the renderings (and plan) however you'd like and put the green back in, which is actually what I had first..Seems very Craftsman, I guess. ;-)

Green tile and counter, some enclosed pantry, floor switched to the right direction:

rhome, that looks wonderful!!! I'll come back to this in a few days, life is getting crazy with year-end windups (and the subsequent baking involved.

I'm finally back---I've been a bit bummed as it looked like the reno wasn't going to be a go but our contractor got back to us with preliminary pricing and a start date, mid-July! We'll be meeting with them next week. We've got the financing in place with the bank. He's hoping to have the concrete poured and the addition framed by the beginning of August. We are on a time-line as we'll be living in our trailer and can only do that until mid-October at the latest.

He'd like us to consider his Mennonite cabinet maker who does nice work (our contractor does the install) I do want to see some examples that aren't oak, however.

I still haven't ruled out IKEA Adel cabinets but with the 5 hour drive to the nearest one, I'm not sure if the cost savings will be as large as it is for some people. Not a quick drive with 2 small children. The contractor is really good about accommodating special requests, my sister-in law's parents are very short and elderly and he installed pull down uppers for them. He seems to be able to tweak nearly anything.

I had to laugh, his wife and partner is excited to work on our house as she likes my vision for it (Craftsmen inspired). Apparently every time they pass a home with elements of Craftsmen she makes him pull over to look at it and she says 'see? THAT is the feel Stacy wants'.

Congratulations! Sounds exciting, and like you have the right people on the job. Can't wait to see pictures!

Am impressed with the ideas for a bookshelf-cupboard area on the lefthand wall.

Anyone have ideas as to costs for a custom unit of this sort? Or would it be built of box units like kitchen cupboards?

florantha---I'm not sure yet what our cost will be on the cabinets, it will depend if we go custom or not.

buehl had suggested the coffee/tea station under the bookshelves, I love that idea since I have am a huge tea drinker---I currently have an entire 2.5ft drawer full of teas. It will let me tuck my electric teakettle and coffeemaker out of sight when they are not in use (we're Sunday coffee drinkers) but it won't be as cumbersome as an appliance garage.

I had SO much help in this thread, thanks again to everyone, I'm sure I'll be doing more brain picking as we get closer.

Well, I'm back on the kitchen track with a Spring 2011 start date. I'm a realist, I knew there was no way my contractor would be able to finish in time for freeze-up. I have young children so sometimes sanity is more important than a new kitchen. :)

I'm still madly in love with rhomes last rendering. I can see it every time I look at my current kitchen.

This is such a fascinating site, thank you!