Shee it is just about pet peeves which in my mind it's the person who commits the grammar crime as much or more than the "manglement"! and who cares anyway? I write articles for the professional association newsletter and am the go to editor, and heck I make mistakes, I always rewrite to avoid using who and whom for instance! On these forums I don't pay much attention to grammar. :) as sum of yu can tale.

Oh yes, sheesharee, please don't take offence. There have been other threads on spelling and grammar to which I've taken offence too, but this one seems so lighthearted, it doesn't bother me.

Growing up, I always had better than average spelling skills and even though I couldn't learn the rules of grammar, using correct grammar wasn't that difficult for me. This always made me feel just a tiny bit superior. When I became a teacher, I realized that there were many kids (and adults) who struggled with spelling and grammar, but were MUCH more intelligent than their peers (and often, their teacher).

As a teacher, my pet peeve is there, their and they're, but I find I'm always using the wrong one when I post in these forums. Keep posting and we promise to only criticize your decorating choices (which, as graywings posted, are pretty darn good these days).

Cooper (must have posted at the same time) & Budge - I'm ok now. I felt better just posting my thoughts about it actually. It was driving my nuts to be quiet. I just kept thinking how is this funny? I know no one has ever pointed out in a thread,"Shee you should've said it like this..." We all have different pet peeves and where one might bother one person it doesn't make the other person flinch. I'm sure some things that drive me batty wouldn't bother some of you.

And thanks for the decorating compliment. I owe most of that to you guys for guidance! More than once I needed kicked in the right direction!

Sorry I took offense. Carry on. :)

I know most of the grammar rules but make mistakes in my posts all the time. I cringe when I see them, but, hey, so what?

Ditto. I know that I make mistakes also, but like to learn the correct way so that hopefully I will avoid the mistakes in the future. Will I still make mistakes? Of course, but there is nothing wrong in self improvement - even in grammar and spelling.

"parma, just to show how authorities change with time, my Webster's Unabridged 2nd edition from 1950 gives Kew-doss or Koo-doss as the only pronunciations, not the plural-sounding latter day popular mispronunciation Koo-doze."

Makes sense.

My Webster's is from 1989, used to replace my old and yellowed Oxford unabridged from years earlier. The newer ones give me more latitude for Scrabble games :).

Terriks mentioned mauve. I can't tell you the number of strange looks I get when I pronounce it correctly.

Thanks for your post, sheesharee. When I posted, I was merely pointing out that we do not know why someone makes the mistakes, it might not even be their native language. Although most of this post has been lighthearted and fun, when people start saying that something really bothers them or they HATE it, it stops being light and funny. Just saying you know. I love fun posts like the next gal :)

"The newer ones give me more latitude for Scrabble games "

LOL! I've noticed that while playing with a neighbbor. Some of her "words" are suspect, but they're in *her* dictionary ;)

Sheesharee, I hope my post didn't annoy you. I've always loved grammar and language in general. Also, I don't mind being corrected because I'd rather know the proper usage! So I forget that others don't feel the same way.

Well, I do think there's something important about at least trying to speak and write correctly. Whether or not it hurts feelings, the truth is that people form impressions and characterizations about others based on how they communicate. All the criticisms raised here really come down to the fact that people who use the wrong words, grammar or spelling either haven't been taught or choose not to communicate as clearly and effectively as possible.

And, forgive the curmudgeon here, but speaking and writing are not intrinsic handicaps--anyone can become a more effective communicator. Everyone can and probably will make a mistake sometimes. But *choosing* to keep marking oneself as ignorant (and that's really what bad grammer/spelling shows the world) doesn't mean others should feel badly about hurting feelings. Being ignorant isn't a crime, but staying that way is IMO.

Ann

Runninginplace - While I agree grammar and spelling is important to function in life your last two sentences got me thinking. I know this is getting somewhat off subject but I think it can be compared. Do you also think if someone's foundation doesn't match their skin tone, their hair color looks brassy or they have two inches of regrowth should it be mentioned if it wasn't asked? How about if someone doesn't know how to run or lift properly at the gym?

My point is people can always become better at/learn new things in general it doesn't always make it nice to point it out. IMO.

(and that's really what bad **grammer**/spelling shows the world)

Hoping that was a typo as it's kind of ironic.

My point is people can always become better at/learn new things in general it doesn't always make it nice to point it out. IMO........... wanted to add....or that they care to do so.

re it isn't always nice to point out errors:

The difference is, we are making general comments here, not making pointed comments to an individual.

He STILL hasn't quite gotten the hang of y'all (plural but just 2 or 3), all y'all (plural meaning quite a few), and y'all's and all y'all's, the respective plural possessives.

So here's how it works.
Y'all = plural of you, whether it's two of you or 50 of you.
All of y'all implies the whole group of you as opposed to some of you.
Example: All of y'all are posting on the decorating forum. Some of y'all post questions and some of y'all post advice.

"All of y'all" often gets shortened to "all y'all" or "all-a y'all". "Some of y'all" often gets shortened to "suma y'all".

And, as in other languages which have a plural you, y'all is sometimes used as the formal. Example, when addressing a singular person for whom you wish to show respect you might say, Would y'all like a cup of tea? instead of Would you like a cup of tea?

Awm - "The difference is, we are making general comments here, not making pointed comments to an individual"

Right. BUT Runninginplace mentioned "But *choosing* to keep marking oneself as ignorant (and that's really what bad grammer/spelling shows the world) doesn't mean others should feel badly about hurting feelings. Being ignorant isn't a crime, but staying that way is IMO. "

The examples I listed above..is that a crime to stay that way? Unfortunately how you present yourself today is sometimes just as important as the knowledge upstairs in the old beaner.

I'm walking away from this one now.

"That tells me that those people don't read. That is not an example of poor spelling but rather misuse of words, because they never read and never saw the words in print!"

My problem is just the opposite. I read. I read A LOT. So that means that a lot of words that I read, I have never heard pronounced in conversation, often times never knowing the word has foreign origins and would not be pronounced as it looks in print. I've mangled words in conversations and been corrected.

I saw a for sale notice on Craigslist this week which said: Beautiful Henry Don Chair. I could not help but laugh.

So now I'm really glad I started something!

My inclination is to suggest that we are doing a good job of keeping it merry and light, and that the sensitive among us remember that though we may deplore the sin, we love the sinner.

I'm also interested in how we perceive the differences of region and dialect. I loved seeing "eavestrough." My DH is Canadian by birth and rearing, so I had heard it before.

"Ax" for "ask" is a holdover from Colonial times, and has roots in an earlier form of English.

"Passed" is common in Southern Black speech, and many rural people of all colors use it.

Love the "mauve" thing...in my youth, my mother always said, "Mauve, by Jove!"

Language is fluid, and it changes and grows. But language is also specific. Words reflect ideas, and when we lose the correct meaning of a word, or make it interchangeable with one that is not the same, we lose a concept, a nuance, a connotation. And that impoverishes this glorious language.

The best example of this in this thread is "begs the question." That phrase refers to a specific logical error. When you try to support an argument with the conclusion, you beg the question. And that meaning is just about lost now, which kills me, because it is so important in these days that we understand the difference between good, sound reasoning and reasoning that sounds good.

We reveal ourselves by how we speak...sometimes it's important, and sometimes not at all. When my searingly bright daughter was ten, I had her transferred to a different class when her teacher said to me, "We are focusing on essay writing, and she sure can essay write!" It wasn't the only reason, but it iced the cake.

Parma, yes a typo-I usually know how to spell grammar :).

Shee, as far as makeup, clothes etc. and pointing out people not having those things 'right'...I see a difference. All that is window dressing, if you will. But the way you communicate, I believe, has a much stronger impact on how those with whom you interact perceive you. Communicating is one's window to the world, and vice versa.

And as another wise forum member said, I"m stepping away now too!

Ann

Posted by kkay_md: "A friend got an email from an old high school friend whose mother had been ill; he reported that his mother had phenomena. (We gathered he meant "pneumonia.")"

I think a lot of those happen because of spell check. He probably mangled the spelling of pneumonia and spell check caught it. He then clicked on the very first suggestion. Sometimes if one misspells a word horribly, spell check suggestions that come up are not what the person wanted. If a person is in a hurry typing, they just 'click' without even reading the word they are clicking. Hilarity ensues.

For more on this subject, see Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation.
It's inspired by the following joke:

A panda walks into a café. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and proceeds to fire it at the other patrons.

'Why?' asks the confused, surviving waiter amidst the carnage, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

'Well, I'm a panda', he says, at the door. 'Look it up.'

The waiter turns to the relevant entry in the manual and, sure enough, finds an explanation. 'Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves.'

Still, the main thrust of this thread, grammar peeves, were general comments about common errors. No need to take them personally. Obviously plenty of people don't give a hoot, and if you're one, then fine -- it's an advantage to not be bothered by such trivial things.

Now is it "main thrust were comments" or "main thrust was comments"? Someone correct me please!

"Now is it "main thrust were comments" or "main thrust was comments"? Someone correct me please!"

Reminds me of an old one from a logic class.

Is it "the *yolk* of the egg *is* white" or "the *yolks* of the eggs *are* white"?

Ha ha, Parma! If the yolks of your eggs is white, you needs to feed you chickens something else....
It's "main thrust was," but it reads better if you say "main thrust was a collection of comments." That way, the correct verb-subject agreement is easier on the ear and brain...

Do you also think if someone's foundation doesn't match their skin tone, their hair color looks brassy or they have two inches of regrowth should it be mentioned if it wasn't asked?

There is a huge difference between pointing out such faults to someone in person and mentioning it in a "pet peeves" thread. I think that pointing out these sorts of mistakes in a general way can be helpful to people who want to improve their communication skills. If someone had posted that their pet peeve is women whose foundation doesn't match their skin tone I might check myself out in the mirror to see if I was guilty of that and worked to find a better matching foundation. How can you learn if you don't know what is correct? I don't see anyone pointing out any poster's indivdiual mistakes (except maybe grammer/grammar), or anyone trying to put anyone else down. Like Dilly, there are words that I've read, but have never heard, so it's interesting and educational to me to discover the correct way to pronounce them.

Typos can be so much more fun than genuine grammatical mistakes.
Someone on the cooking forum once made muffins with puppy seeds.
All I could think of is imagine getting those things stuck in your teeth. Well it was funny at the time.

I have never been able to have this one answered. Is it slow up or slow down? My MIL would use this if one of the grand kids were either running too fast or talking too fast. She would say " Slow up". That just seems so wrong to me.

"It's "main thrust was," but it reads better if you say "main thrust was a collection of comments." That way, the correct verb-subject agreement is easier on the ear and brain..."

Thanks, b'smom -- that's an elegant solution. I see I split an infinitive too. Getting rusty!

Typos -- years ago I worked for a grain company. Daily telexes would be sent out to all the offices with market recaps. The guy sending the shipping recap kept spelling Brest, France, as Breast. Not wanting to embarrass him, no one came forward with a correction, so the misspelling continued for a long while. Finally one young merchant sent the subtle reply, "Believe your spelling of Brest is Freudian." No more Breasts after that!

Do you also think if someone's foundation doesn't match their skin tone, their hair color looks brassy or they have two inches of regrowth should it be mentioned if it wasn't asked? How about if someone doesn't know how to run or lift properly at the gym?

Yes, a good friend should tell you when your makeup isn't working and a kind stranger should help you at the gym, IMO. Don't tell me what I want to hear, tell me what I need to know.

Ha ha, Parma! If the yolks of your eggs is white, you needs to feed you chickens something else....

BWAHAHAHA!

The mispronunciation of words like mauve IS a matter of communication if no one knows what you're talking about. For the last several years, every time I say the word "forte" I pronounce it both ways because I never know if the person I'm speaking to will understand it, LOL!

Back to interior design and verbs used as nouns... "draperies drape" and "that fabric drapes the wrong way". Drapes is a verb.

If you're here on the forum you're also on the WWW. You have the information at your fingertips, why not look it up if you're not sure? I'm constantly doing that.

Yeah, typos happen...

I once worked in the ad dept for a grocery chain. One of my coworkers was supposed to advertise "Chock Full o'Nuts" coffee. He left out the "h" and none of the 10 or 12 people who proofed the ad caught it and it ran "Cock Full o'Nuts". I still have a copy of the ad ;-)

Ok I have a question about mauve. I looked it up. I've always said and heard it pronounced like "mawv" Dictionary.com says it's like "mohv" so does that mean it rhymes with stove? This really is an educational thread :-)

I'm also guilty of being a reader who is often not confident with spoken pronunciation. When I was young I thought horizon was HORizon with accent on the first syllable and when I heard someone say hoRIzon a light bulb went off. Such a simple word I had said to myself incorrectly as a child who grew up reading. I'm far from a child now but still fascinated by the rules and nuances of language.

Greenthumbfish - "Back to interior design and verbs used as nouns... "draperies drape" and "that fabric drapes the wrong way". Drapes is a verb."

I was just about to write (not right) the same thing. Drape is a verb. Drapery is a noun. You hang draperies at your windows, not drapes.

I hate that you can't edit an entry once it's posted here. I've re-read mine many times and caught arrows (just kidding). I know the correct use of "their" and "there" but sometimes in my haste I switch them, much to my chagrin. I guess it doesn't help that reading Gardenweb posts often coincides with my happy hour.

Posted by greenthumbfish: "Every time I say the word "forte" I pronounce it both ways because I never know if the person I'm speaking to will understand it, LOL!"

LOL. I do that too.

----------------------------

Posted by mimi_2006: "When I was young I thought horizon was HORizon with accent on the first syllable and when I heard someone say hoRIzon a light bulb went off."

I had a friend who used to say "harbinger" all the time. He pronounced it har-BINGER, like "Bing" Crosby, really shouting out the 'binger' part. I never knew what the heck he was talking about until one day I used the word harbinger pronounced correctly (HARH-bin-jer with little emphasis on the 'H') and had to define the word for him. He said "Oh your mean harBINGER!" Uh yeah, those new seatbelt laws are a real harBINGER.

I am assuming he had only seen the word in print, and it is understandable to think the word is pronounced that way. I've made similar mistakes with seeing words in print never having actually heard them used.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/harbinger

Here is a link that might be useful: harbinger

Formal dining room.

Even if we have a room that we use solely as a dining room, it's unlikely that we have formal dinners at home, unless our name is Vanderbilt or Astor and we lived several generations ago.

According to old etiquette books, "formal" means WHITE TIE; a tuxedo (BLACK TIE) is "informal."

When I was growing up I had a friend that insisted that there were two different kinds of dances - bal-ay and bal-et. She was also sure that her father worked in an office blodge, which is the way she pronounced bldg. She didn't realize that it was an abbreviation for building. What really made me mad at the time was that my sister backed her up! Even though she knew better.

When I was older I had a friend that thought that a curd of cottage cheese was the container that it came in, and once told me that she ate an entire large curd of cottage cheese.

A word that I have noticed that Canadians get right and Americans usually get wrong is mauve.

On the other hand, I have never quite recovered from the way people on certain decorating shows (all produced in Toronto) pronounce Hoosier, as in Hoosier cabinet.

terriks...I loved office blodge...still rofl especially that your sister backed her up to make you crazy.

And entire large curd of cottage cheese, lol, she better start buying small curd.

Thank you, bronwynsmom, for a great post!

Like so many others, I'm often in a hurry typing and don't run my posts through a spell checker or edit for grammatical errors. I don't think I've ever come across a post that was so screwy that I had difficulty understanding it (as in "spaded chewawa") and I'm generally reading so quickly that I don't notice if someone types "their" instead of "there."

IRL, I'm a grammar fiend and I'm frequently correcting DD.
Example:
DD: "me and Claire went to..."
Mama: "Claire and *I*"
DD: "Whatever."

Hmm, maybe correcting other people's grammar makes for worse communication, not better. Just a thought.

I came across a quote in a book last night ("Thou hast seen nothing yet." from Don Quixote) and was wishing we still used "hast." What an awesome word!

Did you guys know there is a Merriam-Webster audio dictionary online? I just found it looking for the pronunciation of mauve. How cool is that??

Here is a link that might be useful: audio of mauve

One oral transcription that always gets me in online discussion fora is "hehehe". Now, is the writer trying to giggle with me ("hee hee hee") or mock me sardonically ("heh heh heh")? Drives me bonkers!

Terriks you are cracking me up!

My friend (a Sopranos fan) insisted that cappicola and "gobbagool" (as they'd pronounce it on the show) were two different things! Oh man - there was no arguing that one.

When I first started working as a paralegal I was a victim of "click-the-first-suggestion-spellcheck" and *almost* sent out a letter that read: "Thank you for you Athenian to this matter."

Heh heh. Good thing my boss had a sense of humor!

I know I said I was walking away but I had to come back!

My panties are out of the bunch. Nobody attacked me personally here and I chose to be offended. I didn't need to read this or post. Have some other things going on and I let that interfere with my attitude the past couple of days. I know I already apologized above but I then ran my mouth some more. Sorry.

On a positive note I learned how toile is pronounced! I was never sure and always heard people saying different things IRL.

Well, I go away for a couple days, and look what I miss. (Or should that be "Look at what I miss?? Oh no...)

I could live with every other transgression if only I never again had to witness the Ben Moore color HC-144 being referred to as Paladium Blue.

When I was younger I said confinement store instead of consignment store...my mom still refers to it as a confinement store just to tick me off.....

Back to interior design and verbs used as nouns... "draperies drape" and "that fabric drapes the wrong way". Drapes is a verb.

Drapes is both a noun and a verb. Maybe it started out as a verb only but through usage became a noun as well?

It used to bother me when people used the word "loan" as a verb. The verb is lend, the noun is loan. Till I found out that loan IS a verb as well.... I hate it when my illusions are shattered! :)

Here is a link that might be useful: drapes

To quote teri
One of my husband's pet peeves is heighth - there is no such word, it is height - no "th" sound.

My Webster's New Collegiate says both height (hit with a long i ) and heighth (hith with a long i) are appropriate.

And as a child, I sang at the top of my little lungs, "Stand beside her, and guide her, through the night with the light from a bulb!"

Made sense to me. Turns out my family thought it was so funny that they let me keep doing it until I went to school. Then their concern for my potential humiliation overcame their amusement...

heighth
ââ/haɪtθ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hahytth] Show IPA
Use heighth in a Sentence
Ânoun
a nonstandard spelling of height.

Here is a link that might be useful: another opinion

One more. If you hang around any elementary aged children, particularly boys, you will learn that "verse" is a stand alone verb. As in, "Who wants to verse me in ping pong?"
Jo

I feel bad for whomever feels badly ;)

walnutcreek, why don't you make that seller an offer he can't refuse? :)

How about these words?

-Ginormous
-Littler
-Gazillion (there is a dubya joke somewhere)
-many 'light years' ago