Hi, marti, I'd say do what best suits your use of the space now. Would it be possible to arrange the opening(s) so that they can be re-worked later, if needed. You are so DIY capable, patching sheetrock and trimming out a new entry wouldn't be a big deal. You could save materials (flooring, trim) to match.

Summerfield's plan is wonderful--I had missed it before now, and I also missed the reversed swing on the exterior kitchen door. I like that much better!

Well, I'm trying to avoid reworking the doorway twice. I've already done that with two other doors and dh is losing patience with me on that score.

Marti- If you aren't doing the island, then your walkway is going to be going diagonally, through your living room. That's not really a problem, but with the other doorway, to the hallway, you'd have two diagonal lines, with the original plan.

I would move the doorway to the left, so you have a very short walkway, between the main entry and the hallway. Great place for a bookcase or small table with picture/mirror above. This also makes your front entry seem bigger, since you're seeing into the living room, not looking at the wall.

Are the chairs recliners? If not, I'd move them a little closer to the wall, to make more space for your stools and walkway behind them, to the dining room/kitchen area. If they are recliners, then it might be a little cramped for stools. This is your only way to get from the living room and/or den, into the kitchen, dining area and outside...so you need room for a major walkway.

If the stools are not used that often, or if there aren't many people there on a regular basis, you may be able to keep them, but I'd measure, first. Unless everyone is really skinny...they're going to be out in the walkway, when they're sitting at the stools :)

Right now they are recliners. But you're right and that's why I'm thinking of doing away with bar seating at all, not having any overhang other than covering the half wall, maybe even making it standing height there.

It's nice to have a little seating at the bar...would you have room for maybe two stools, on the corner? Maybe one stool towards the end and the other at a 90 degree angle? Do you need all the base area for storage or could you have the end 'open' for the seating?

That would give you room for a bit of seating, further away from the cooktop...and you'd still be able to see and chat with people in the living room. Just an idea :)

Maybe you just need new chairs? I think the intention of this LR space is more sit and have tea, and less recline for an afternoon nap. Isn't that what the space in the den is for? I'd put your recliners in the den and find a few comfy smaller, "barrel" chairs or similar.

Your den is nicely sized for the luxurious furniture (and the TV)

Now that I reread your post, (with no kids fighting in the background), I wonder if your actual furniture problem is the game table. Is there a different place for that?

I think the other thing I might consider is opening the foyer to the LR even more--combine your 2 door entrances there with a larger door (less wall). The reason I would do this, instead of just choose the left opening, is to maintain the flow of the den to the lr/kitchen area... But, it makes it really open.

marti, I meant could you re-work the openings later, if necessary, when(if) you decided to sell. Ya know, the way those 'Designed to Sell' folks come in and redo a house in 30 minutes? ;)

The game table is usually in the den. I just put in there to give an idea in those odd little spaces.

Originally the furniture in the living room was in the den as a set. But dh didn't like that recliner and wanted one of those big monstrosities, so the chair went to the living room. Then, I bought a small recliner for me so I could have two chairs in the den that kind of matched, and the loveseat was banished to the living room as well.

I don't really like it, but that's the way it is. The furniture is too new to replace, except that big monstrosity recliner, but dh (6'4") is adament about having one so would just replace with another, probably worse than this one. In fact, he's napping in it right now.

When and if I get to replace, I'd put some casual chairs in the living room. Right now the living room isn't used unless it's a large crowd and we set up a table there. My goal is to have that as the room where people gather to talk, where the den is more for the tv and sprawling out.

Marti- Totally crazy idea and probably wouldn't work...but what if you put the dining area, where you have the fireplace/living room, right now? You could add some bookcases and make it a combination dining room/library, with nice, upholstered or cushioned, chairs that are comfy to sit in and also great for looking through books, magazines, etc.

Then you could make the dining room (on the plan) a little sunroom area...maybe with some wicker and plants? Just a little 'girl' area, off the kitchen work area, with easy access to the backyard. This would be such a great place to have friends over for a cup of coffee or tea...and look out the windows at your garden. Maybe even put the courtyard back there, too?

This would give you more room for a dining area...and more space for the stools, too. You can always get rid of a few pieces of furniture (Craig's List, family, etc.) but the den can have the big recliner, the TV and be the 'man room' of the house. Only fair you should get the sunroom, right? :)

That is where we have been using the dining table. It doesn't really work out though, at least not with a regular sized table. It looks like there is a lot of space there, but when an oblong table and chairs are in the space, it's hard to walk around. Also, the table ends up right in front of the entry door, and I don't like the way it looks. I don't like walking in the front door into the dining room. That's why I like the idea of a banquet in the new dining room. btw, I wanted a bigger space for dining room when we add on, but dh talked to the concrete guy and told him this size. Grrr.

What about a round table, with a leaf? As you say, you don't have much more room in the new area...and if you put the table more centered, in front of the fireplace, would that work?

Something like this, maybe..... {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

Or this... {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

And I like this one, too... {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

And these would be a pretty sunroom :) {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans
{{gwi:1540185}}From Kitchen plans

I just don't want to walk in the front door into the dining room.

Fair enough :)

Marti I would not do the center opening to give yourself a wall. Maybe do the current opening a little wider. Then you can put the furniture as Summerfield shows and walk behind the couch? Maybe still not enough room? not sure I am reading your graph right. Is your room about 15 by 20?

We have a 12 1/2 by 19 1/2 living room and there is plenty of space to walk behind the couch from the one entry. I have the gun cabinet and a table behind the couch on the entry end and it is a bit narrow but we can easily walk through the space. I could bring the couch closer to the chairs but by not doing so makes more room for the dogs and of course that is important to us. LOL

Very close Shades, it's 14 by 19. There is enough room now for our loveseat & 2 chairs, and the door as is is big enough. I was concerned that moving the doorway and adding the bar with seating would both make it hard to place furniture and squeeze the walking area. I've decided (to dh's relief) to leave the door as is, and not have any bar seating. I'll do a raised "standing" bar instead.

Marti- What if you swapped the loveseat and the two recliners? That might give you a little more room...and the recliners could 'recline' into the walkway, while the loveseat could be up against the wall. This might give you more room for your stools. And, if you had stools that swivel, you could even turn around and talk to people, in the living room.

Obviously, this would be with changing the entrance into the room (which I like better) so it's opposite the front door. What do you think?

I have been working on that room. Last night I moved my wall units around and thought I'd play with the loveseat and chair(s) when I got the floor clear again. I had thought of the loveseat against the wall too. It is also a double recliner, but a wall away type, so it could be almost up to the wall.

Yes, our family is recliner obsessed. If I had known it was going to come to this, I would never have agreed to that first recliner 33 years ago.

LOL! Recliners are comfortable :)

Well, I do not allow recliners in my house. I like comfy chairs and ottomans, which are just as cozy and a lot more adaptable to arranging furniture different. When they make a really great "recliner" I might consider sitting in one. But what I need is one that EXPELS the sitter into a standing position in the middle of the floor without a struggle. Just consider how much fun that could be with a remote which you can activate while someone is sleeping away so peacefully.

hehehehehe, of course I jest. That would be new grounds for divorce I bet.

Why don't you patent that one ML? I bet it will be a big seller to wives around Father's Day.

Or football playoffs? LOL

Uh oh, ML, I think someone is already working on the idea.

Ejector recliner

I'm not sure if this link will work. Houzz is odd that way. You may have to click on a link.

But what about something like this with four chairs instead of the loveseat? Would it take up less room? I visited a furniture store today and saw some chairs quite similar to these and they were 34" wide by 36" deep. Not bad at all except they would have to be grouped in the middle of the room in front of the fireplace. Would look funny off to the side I think.

Marti I hoped we could do the four chairs in our living room Even had the 34 inch wide recliners for two chairs. I worked on the living room re-arrange all night pushing things around and by morning was right back where we started. Only I was fast asleep on the love seat. GADS I was so frustrated. The problem is one end of our room is wider because there is a hallway at the other end that can not be blocked. I would so love to change our room around just for the fun of it.

If we did not have any other furniture but the four chairs and a center table and TV it might work. Can you bring in your family room furniture chairs to try it? That is a lovely picture. It does not look all that comfortable though.

Hahaha on ejector recliner. ML Good one. The dogs were so happy to see us home this afternoon they were rubbing on Joe's recliner until he had to holler at them, gently . He told me they were making him delete things on his computer he did not mean to by bumping him so hard.They almost flipped him over backwards. They learned how to crouch under the foot rest and wiggle butts back and forth for good scratching.

Yes, I agree, those particular chairs don't look that comfortable. The ones at the store, at least the arm ones, were rockers and were comfy. And if I put a round ottoman in the middle, and built a tray to go on it, it could double as casual dining too.

I don't have four chairs in the den. In fact, I only have 3 chairs total, and one is dh's big recliner. I'd have to makes some shapes out of newspaper to see how it worked.

Marti- That's a great idea! In Spokane, at the Davenport Hotel lobby, they have wing chairs grouped around tables, as in your picture. It's a perfect place to have tea or a snack and visit with friends. Let me see if I can find a picture :)

Okay, I realize this is MUCH more formal than you're planning to use in your space...but it is a popular idea! :)

Davenport Hotel Lobby {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

On a smaller scale, either with an ottoman or a table, it would still be a great idea, in front of your fireplace.

Okay, here are some more casual versions, of four chairs, around an ottoman or table. I don't know why I had such a tough time finding pictures, today. Hope you like them :)

This one seems kind of beachy... {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

This is from Sarah Richardson's lake cabin, in the great room, off the kitchen. {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

And a bit more romantic, but mismatched... {{gwi:1540186}}From Kitchen plans

:)
I do like the idea, Marti. It would seem to fit the purpose and the space.

Oh thanks LL, I love that 2nd one. Looks so comfy. I've also been thinking about your suggestion about making the addition into the sitting area. It's just really too small for a dining spot. Then the center door into the main room would work great too.

Love the ottoman in the Romantic but mismatched. I can see the four chairs with tray of goodies and all sitting chatting and munching. The beachy setting appeals to me.It looks the most comfortable.

Shades- I love that ottoman, too!

Marti- Something like these pictures, would not feel like walking into the dining room. It's a wonderful conversation area that can be used for tea (or beverage of choice), snacks or even meals.

The addition will be so nice and sunny, it would be a pretty place for a little seating area...maybe wicker or something garden like? I love a little sunporch and my mom always uses wicker in her house. It's so comfy (with cushions) and much easier to move around, if you need extra seating, in another room :)

If you're using the game table, in the den...that could be a nice informal dining area, too. That way, if you have kids visiting or want to eat something messy (like spaghetti LOL) you could have an alternative dining table. Otherwise, I think your comfy chairs and table (like the second picture above) would work very well.

Seems I saw coffee tables that some how raise up to dinning table height when needed as a dinning table. If you do not use your dinning room often this might be the thing that would work for you.

We will only have one dining room, so we need a real table.

I was going to rebuild one of the cabinets today, but some decisions have to be made first. I've measured, drawn it out, and then made a 3d plan with both options.

Dh doesn't want me to paint the cabinets, so I will refinish them. However, one cabinet end has some damage that I'm not sure how to fix. It's next to the sink where I used to hang a towel and the wet towel damaged the side. I'd like to blame it on the kids, but it was all of us.

It was probably a bad piece of wood to start with, as it had some fill in the crack when we moved here. But it got worse. I've scraped out all the filler and this is what it looks like now.

{{!gwi}}

My options are to
1) fill it and stain it, or try to faux grain to make it match better,
2) re-veneer the whole end
3) change out the cabinet

I'm leaning toward changing out the cabinet with another one so this end is against another cabinet. The other cabinet is 6 inches longer though, so I can't cut the bottom cabinet until I decide.

Any of you creative people have another idea for fixing the end?

Then, I talked to dh about the wall oven cabinet on the other wall. The cabinet is 5 feet tall with another cabinet on top which is set back a foot. I can't reach anything in the set back cabinet, so my suggestion was that we take the oven and microwave out of that cabinet and put the oven into a base cabinet and the microwave into an upper cabinet. He agreed. However, when measuring today, I found that it is too tall and won't work in a base cabinet. So I'll keep the tall cabinet and rebuild it so it doesn't have a set back cabinet over it.

Then I'll move down the base cabinet with the oven, and set another base beside it.

Then, I have another set of choices
1) Put the upper cabinet from the other side (the one with the damaged end),
{{!gwi}}
or
2) Open the wall over the base cabinet.
{{!gwi}}

In these plans, I have the seating in the new room and the table in the old room, but those could be switched, and both show the entry moved to the center of the wall.

Dh doesn't like the entry plan. He thinks it will make it cramped around the front door. I like that it cuts off strangers' view.

I'm leaning toward not opening the wall so I can use the cabinet. There are two cabinets on either side of the stove, but they are narrow and fairly useless.

What do you think, both for looks and use?

Marti- If it were me, I would open up the kitchen to the fireplace room. It would be great, if you could add a few stools and have some seating. If there's not room for stools, it would still be better if it were more open, IMHO :)

Sarah Richardson's lake cabin...kitchen/great room. I know this isn't exactly like your space, but I hope it will give you some ideas! I've included a link to Country Homes, so you can see all the pictures, if you like. {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans
{{!gwi}}From French Country Cottage
{{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to Country Homes article on Sarah Richardson

I like that LL. This HGTV home has a lot of the same features.

I redid the plan putting the seating group in the fireplace room and the table in the other room. Had to leave the entry on the side though; it just doesn't work in the middle with this seating. This software doesn't have a way to put half walls, so I drew one in with Paint.

{{!gwi}}

I like this last plan best.
I like the openness of the kitchen to the fireplace room, and then dining area seems like it fits where it is too.

Marti, what is on the back wall and side wall of the kitchen space? I know you are worried about storage (loss of upper cabinet), but can it be reclaimed anywhere?

Thanks kirkhall. I didn't put cabinets on that back wall because it would block the wall I'm talking about in the 3d view. On the back wall is a full height pantry cabinet (or will be full height - it's 5' now), an upper over the DW, and a 5' upper over the counter. Not bad, but not enough for the dishes I have now.

My baking center will be on the wall pictured, and it would be handy to have my mixing bowls, baking pans, and measuring cups right above it.

Dh & I like this last view, but we also know that our kitchen is always a mess, and don't want it in full view. Dh wants the uppers and wall to the edge like in the first 3d plan I posted above. I'm afraid he's right. There will be an opening of about 5 1/2 feet between the living room and kitchen, so the kitchen won't be as closed off as it is now.

Marti- I like the second plan, too! The dining table does seem to fit better in the addition...and those four chairs with the table/ottoman look so cozy :)

What about a compromise, in the kitchen? You're going to have it open to the dining room, in this plan...so what if you put glass upper cabinets (glass on both sides) above the half wall? That would give you the dish storage you need and let light into both spaces. It would be a great place to put some of your prettier dishes...maybe have three glass uppers, instead of two? It would look like this, but with no wall between the counter and the upper cabinets...and of course, the dining/seating areas would be switched. {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

What do you think?

My kitchen used to always be a mess when it was closed off from the rest of the house (I wanted to spend little time in it/couldn't spend enough time in it because I always needed to be racing around the corner to supervise kiddos). Now that it is more open, it is also less messy.

Think about whether or not your new kitchen space will function better for you and therefore might limit the "messy" factor.

I don't actually have cabinets with glass doors, that was just the only option in the software for a cabinet that size.

Marti- I vote for the half wall, messy kitchen or not! If you leave the solid wall, you still can't see the fireplace and you're walking over to the doorway, to talk to anyone in that room. Yes, you will be open to the dining area...but you already have a long, narrow space there (no peninsula, right?) so the half wall would open up the kitchen to the fireplace room, making that space feel wider and larger.

What's opposite the open area, on the other side of the kitchen? That's all you'd see, as you walk in. Maybe you could change a few of the uppers, on that wall. All you have to do is get new doors, or even cut out areas, in the existing doors and add glass, chicken wire, fabric, a combination of both, etc. It might be nice and it would give you a little color or sparkle, in the kitchen area. Just a thought :)

I'll have to think about it for awhile, and pretend it's that way as I do things for awhile and see how it works.

Opposite the open area will be the refrigerator/freezer and back door.

Ooh, I forgot the door was there...natural light. Nothing wrong with that :)

Marti- I found this picture, while looking for something else, but thought of you. Just wanted to post it, in case you like the idea of the two sets of chairs...and it might be easier to find, while shopping. How's the planning going? :)
{{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

Thanks LL. I think I do like 2 sets of chairs, and have looked on CL a bit too. The more I think about it, the more I like using the fireplace room as the cozy seating area and the new room as dining room.

Right now I'm stripping kitchen cabinets, and dealing with that d*** leak. Dh finally admitted last night that he didn't put in a water barrier when he put the door in. I'm pretty ticked today. It's been raining hard since yesterday evening and the water has reached the next set of cabinets. I have towels and a fan set up, but I bet I get to repair the next cabinet too. Grrr.