Ex wife entitled to ex husband's pension?

12 years ago

I have a friend who was married for 15 years to a man whose company provided benefits on retirement. He retired and passed away a few years ago, and my friend would like to know if she can make a claim on a part of those benefits. She knows there was a will and thinks he may have had a provision written leaving his 2nd wife to gain from those first 15 years, as well as their years together. Anyone have experience or know of someone who has tried to make such a claim?

Featured Answer

clg7996

9 years ago

If you are married and your husband dies, the spouse will continue receiving a benefit ONLY IF, at the time of retirement, the husband chose a Joint and Survivor payment form. Current law is that the wife must sign if they husband decides NOT to elect the Joint and Survivor form. That is so that the wife acknowledges that she will receive no money of the husband dies.

Now regarding divorce, this is decided in court with a Qualified Domestic Relations Order, or QDRO. I see a lot of those.

Oh, I forgot to add that I am in the pension business.

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Comments (67)

emma
10 years ago
You got that right but using the wrong terminology in these forums has not. LOL
artemis_ma
10 years ago
I just attended a retirement seminar series, At least in CT and NY, if the husband forgot to remove your friend as a beneficiary, she's entitled. If he remembered, she's not at all entitled.
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stir_fryi SE Mich
10 years ago
My husbands pension is set up in such a way that when he dies, I receive a reduced amount (assuming we are still married).

Now, if we divorce before his death, it becomes part of the divorce settlement (or not). My MIL received 50% of my FIL's pension as part of the divorce settlement (they were married 30 years).

My educated guess is, unless it was part of the divorce settlement, she gets nothing. Especially, if she not already receiving it.
Elmer J Fudd
10 years ago
In a community property state and in many separate property states by practice evolved over the years, all assets earned post wedding day and other items co-mingled are owned 50-50. It's a non-negotiable although pre-marriage assets and situations can be subject to special treatment with what's called an antenuptual agreement.

It doesn't mean on divorce that everything is split in half. It can be that on divorce one spouse takes all of Asset A and the other all of Asset B for ease of division, if they're of equal value, or two pools of equal value can be created containing 100% of different assets when the preferences of each differ and assets can be allocated to suit those preferences. The presence or absence of minor children, and the employment situations of each spouse get considered as well,

Pensions have a present value based on age and balances, and are an asset just like a security or bank account.
artemis_ma
10 years ago
Snidely, this very state-dependent. And if there is no antenuptual agreement...
Elmer J Fudd
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
I agree. That`'s why I said "many" separate property states and not "most" or "all".

As far as no agreement situations are concerned? No agreement is no agreement, it's going to depend on the state and the circumstances. Unless pre-marriage either or both future spouses have significant income or assets, such agreements aren't common. Fortunately or unfortunately, divorces aren't uncommon and while ill-feelings can make the financial negotiation challenging, the law and local practices that apply to most situations are usually clear and well understood by both lawyers and the courts.
anuabilashanu
9 years ago
My self Indira Gopinathan, wife of M.R.Gopinathan, central gov't.employee(ex-railway). my husband passes away on 20th sep. now it about 5 months had gone I didn't get my husbands pension. paper's are already send to railway office at Bombay. still no reply yet came..plz help me for getting my husband's pension.
mindye27
9 years ago
My ex-husband of 20 years, asked me to sign paperwork as a beneficiary, after our divorce. Since, we had a contentious divorce, with custody battle, this came right out of left field for me. But you know what they say about a gift horse. And, having raised our two children (almost single handedly), I thought it was a very nice gesture. (Possibly there was some guilt behind this gesture. (-: It was some percentage, amounting to a little over $400.00 a month. He passed in 2013. It has been 2 years since my 27 yo daughter has talked to me. She says, he meant to change and sign his pension over to her. And that I, at 64 and two years away from retirement, should sign it over to her. I am not sure if that is even possible. But if she is not talking to me because I won't hand a bunch of money over to her, as far as I am concerned, she has a lot of maturing to do. What do you think?
User
9 years ago
Tell her No. Remind her that if she had been named she probably would have to wait until she is of retirement age for the pension. By that time the money would be worth about $5.00 in todays money. Then ask her to contribute to your living expenses to see how she feels about it.
littlebug zone 5 Missouri
9 years ago
Tell your daughter to go pound sand.
mindye27
9 years ago
Thank you, both. It is sad when your children turn away from you. Even sadder when your child is someone you do not want to be around.
tszaro9
9 years ago
Mindye27...we divorced. ..he failed to remove me as benificuary...he died....I like a dumb ass signed it over to my grown children...and they still want talk to me. So...I can relate. They are half millionaires....I get snubbed. Its been 3 years now.
mindye27
9 years ago
It is a complicated choice. I couldn't afford not to choose the pension. All my savings were spent on an unsuccessful custody battle. 61 yo and still living paycheck to paycheck. That pension saved my butt! Your children still want to talk to you. That is worth a lot. But you still feel snubbed. It certainly seems like a "no-win" situation.
racetowin
9 years ago
company WENT bankrupt I get $100.
tszaro9
9 years ago
Mindye...no...they won't even acknowledge my birthday. After all I gave them...and I get this treatment. I agree...its a no win for me that is for sure.
racetowin
9 years ago
Doesn't the x have to agree to give the pension an social security?

My sis man said she wasn't getting anything?????????
mindye27
9 years ago
tszar - I am so sorry. I know my kids are damaged. Doesn't make it any less sad or tolerable. I do not know what is wrong w/these kids. I realize my daughter is extremely spoiled. I thought we were really close and I was always there for her. They seem to have VERY short memories.
mindye27
9 years ago
racetowin - The ex has to sign paperwork for the pension. Not social security.
racetowin
9 years ago
thanks mindye27........then he does have a choice.
User
9 years ago
Good info here.

http://www.pensionrights.org/publications/fact-sheet/pension-rights-after-divorce

Typically arrangements need to be made at the time of a divorce, with a Qualified Domestic Relations Order issued by the court needed.
stir_fryi SE Mich
9 years ago
clg7996 -- I think you nailed it!
racetowin
9 years ago
Then you ought to know.
Jacqueline Clay
9 years ago
I'm curious as well. I was receiving half of my ex pension, he committed suicide two years ago and immediately after his death, I was cut off. He never remarried and I am considerate as the surviving spouse Even though we were divorced. I would like to know if I'm still entitled and why did it stop, he didn't just die, he murdered himself. Help
racetowin
9 years ago
Check an see it the policy says natural death? Suicide isn't natural..
debbie_barnett73
8 years ago
I was awarded my ex husband pension, he wants me to sign his pension back to him, he wants it all for himself and won't give me half the value what it's worth. I don't even know what to do anymore. I don't even know the present value..my ex worked with the union as a master electrican. .I was married to him for 27 years...
mindye27
8 years ago
I am sorry but your ex sounds extremely greedy and selfish. (Mine sure was!) What will happen if you just say "NO"? A union electrician typically makes a lot of money. If he does not have a good reason, I would tell him you will take him back to court, if he tries to get your portion of the pension. 27 years is a long time to be married to someone. It sounds like he has a lot of nerve. Besides that, you won't get anything until he retires or passes away.
artemis_ma
8 years ago
Mind, from the post it sounds like he DID retire.
User
8 years ago
The WHOLE guy's pension was given to the woman? And we're wondering why he would want it back?
debbie_barnett73
8 years ago
He hasn't retired yet...but it's coming ....he wants his pension signed over so he can have a good life. He said I didn't put anything into it... my atty told me if he wants pension back, he would need to buy me out... I feel that he could potentially forgery my signature. ...
User
8 years ago
Again, the courts have or will sort the pension out. Why is the guy being painted the evil one when he wants the pension and she want the pension.

Why wouldn't each of them want it?
User
8 years ago
If the judge awarded you the whole amount stay away from your ex. Do not go any where that the two of you might be alone together. Giving you the whole amount is very unusual so you must have been lucky to escape. This is another talk to your attorney things. The attorney may want to cover all bases and send a letter to the company handling the pension making them aware that forgery and that other manipulation may occur. The attorney may also want to find out what the amount in the fund is for your records. Knowing the amount in a fund is something that everyone that has a fund should be current on.
debbie_barnett73
8 years ago
I didn't say I got awarded the whole amount..I was awarded half and he was awarded half..he doesn't want half he wants 100 percent which means all of it.
debbie_barnett73
8 years ago
He is not fourth coming and will not produce any information .. !!
User
8 years ago
Sorry when you wrote that he wanted his pension signed back over to him it sounded like you had been awarded the full pension. Unless you have a larger pension than he does do not do it. You lived with him for all those years which should be worth something. If you were still married to him many pensions have a provision for a spousal benefit by reducing the original amount and when the person dies the spouse receives a reduced amount. The amount could be between 25 to 100 percent. Too much information is lacking such as did the judge freeze the amount you receive at the value of the pension at that time? Can you draw on the pension once your reach a certain age or must you wait until you die? Your attorney at that time should have/may have informed you of these things. Writing these things not so much for you but for others that may have questions.
debbie_barnett73
8 years ago
Exactly. .. the judge did freeze the accts at that time, I'm not sure if the restrictions still applies as of right now. I have to agree on your assements on the pension I will not sign the paper work for him to get his pension reversed back to him.. He has told me all I have to do is sign it get it notorized and we go in front of the judge and the judge will ask me if I agree with this? My ex said that's all it takes.. I have asked him to produce me the value and he wont produce anything!! He also wanted me to pay him back from his 401k plan on top of everything else..
Lindsey_CA
8 years ago
Debbie, the judge awarded one-half the pension to you for a reason. I'm guessing that you live in a community property state. If so, the salary your ex-husband earned was community property. Because some of that money was deposited into his retirement account, half of it is yours. Unless you are independently wealthy and will not need even one penny of that money to live on, do NOT sign it over to anyone, including to your ex-husband.

I am glad to see that your ex-husband said the paperwork would have to be notarized. That means he's not going to be able to forge your signature because you have to sign in the presence of the notary in order for the notary to sign that you proved who you are and that you signed it in front of him/her. Notaries don't make a bundle of money -- it will cost anywhere from about $10 to $40 to have one to two signatures notarized. But a notary takes an oath and has to post a bond, and the vast majority of notaries aren't going to risk their reputation and bond (not to mention legal action against them) to notarize a signature that they didn't witness.
User
8 years ago
You said, "I was awarded my ex husband pension, he wants me to sign his pension back to him..."

Oh, that's not true.
debbie_barnett73
8 years ago
Oh, it is true...you don't have all of the facts.!!
User
8 years ago
Many questions need to be answered before determination of fact. Most pension benefit issues are covered by federal law, not state law, due to the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 and the various other subsequent laws.

1. Was the benefit from a defined benefit or defined contribution plan?

2. Was your husband vested in his benefit at the time of your divorce?

3. Was your husband eligible to receive benefits at the time of his death?

4. Were these issues addressed in the Qualified Domestic Relations Order?

5. Was your husband covered by a collective bargaining agreement at the time of your divorce and the time of his death?

6. What did your lawyer say?
debbie_barnett73
8 years ago
Nel,

I'm responding to your questions. for number 1. Yes it's a defined contributions plan .

Question 2,4 yes

Question 3 my ex is still living

Question 5 I'm not sure on this one what you are referring to?

Question 6 my lawyer said not to sign anything over to my ex.

I look forward to hearing back from you on this subject.

Thank you

Debbie
User
8 years ago
I am probably wrong but I think Nel is mining for clients or at least did not read the previous posts.
debbie_barnett73
8 years ago
Ok ...Thank you
User
8 years ago
Your lawyer should be enforcing the QDRO. And no, I am not trolling for clients. A collective bargaining agreement is a plan between an employer and a recognized union.
debbie_barnett73
8 years ago
Nel,

My lawyer told me I had to wait to collect from his pension when he retires..in like 5 years from now... my ex is master electrican ... I do have a qdro on file with the benefits office. However the lady from the benefits office said I have to wait til he retires.

Thank you

Debbie
racetowin
8 years ago
Of course
User
8 years ago
My lawyer told me I had to wait to collect from his pension when he retires..in like 5 years from now... my ex is master electrican ... I do have a qdro on file with the benefits office. However the lady from the benefits office said I have to wait til he retires.

Ok. Two knowledgeable, professional people have told you you have to wait until he retires. So wait. And then you'll get the benefit payout. Seems you have your answer.
debbie_barnett73
8 years ago
Yes indeed! !!
Mrs Pete
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
So much wrong information here. So, so much.

First, the pension: I have the impression that the couple was married when the husband signed on for the pension. He almost certainly made his wife his beneficiary (person who collects if the pensioner dies). Beneficiary trumps everything else, including a will ... so if he never went back and changed it, the ex-wife could potentially be the automatic beneficiary. Also, the couple would have divided the pension along with their other marital assets. This doesn't mean it was split down the middle; sometimes, for example, sometimes a wife gives up rights to future pension benefits so she can have the house ... or sometimes promises that the husband keeps the lion's share of the pension, provided he pays for the kids' college ... or the couple could've agreed that since she stayed home and raised the children -- foregoing her own career -- that she gets the bigger share of his pension. Any of these things, or any number of other possibilities, could be true.

Questions that need answering:

- Who is the beneficiary?

- What is in the divorce agreement?

Then Social Security: An ex-wife can draw upon an ex-husband's account ... but one of the requirements is that she cannot have remarried. Any spouse can only draw 50% of the spouse's benefit ... so she'd have to compare this to her own benefit (she cannot draw her own benefit PLUS her spouse or ex-spouse's benefit -- it's an either-or proposition).
debbie_barnett73
7 years ago
Discovered after our divorce my ex husband hidden numerous of martial assets durning our divorce which he didn't disclosed all of the marital assets which is procured by fraud.

Ex wife entitled to ex husband's pension?

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