My son and his wife live in a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio. My son seems to feel that sellers up there don't lower their prices either. the homes stay on the market for a long time and the prices just don't seem to be moving. I wonder if it goes to the mentality of a state that has had numerous employment problems and job losses,or if it's just stubborness?

Not so sure it's realtors because they don't get paid unless the house gets sold. I'm sure they'd just as soon get a commission on a $250,000 sale then wait around a year to get a commission on the house at $275,000.

this WAS NOT a run up in appreciation area.

if there was no run-up, maybe there shouldn't be a drop-off.

I know when we were on the market, we weren't the only sellers who thought we shouldn't have to cut our prices by 10 to 15 percent--our locale hadn't had a HUGE bubble, or at least, we felt that the rise in prices reflected the city's economy overall; there hadn't been a big drop in the city's economy. And yet someone posted here that he wondered where the slow-down was because prices were not dropping, or not by very much.

as to the price differences--have you looked at the actual houses? the house on the slab that's the same price as one w/ a basement may have many other plusses--newer appliances, new baths, great roof, etc.
' county appraised in 2006 for 178 and is now listed for 269

Does the county appraise at market value? If not, that may explain the difference. I've always heard not to go by the tax folks' appraisal when it comes to figuring a sale/purchase price.

I think I does take sellers a while to adjust, mentally, to a dropping market. In our case, I know that our real-estate guy actually thought we should UP our price a little when he took over after our attempt at FSBO.

Maybe I misspoke - as far as I know there was not a huge run up in prices.
I certainly can't imagine one. Maybe there was a small tiny bubble with the general optimism in real estate? I can't imagine it being that big a deal though.
I realize county appraisals are usually off some but that's all I have to go by.
As for the two ranches - I thought of possible differences in updates too - but if that's the case why wouldn't the realtor tout it all over the mls on the one without a basement? And frankly on a house that size and age I can't imagine them being able to put in enough to compensate for the price on a slab.
I'm having a real tough time with the market here. I hate it. The small towns ouside the edge of the city where I usually like to try to live are sort of crappy no personality places or too far for me to commute. I think everythings way overpriced and I'm not talking about the latest "buyer's market" mentality I've never seen so many houses with these cheap a** metal frame windows and general poor construction, mildew smells, just generally not kept up for what they are asking. Ugh. I just can't get with the idea of buying here at almost any price, but I also hate renting. Sorry for the re-vent. I'm starting to whine.

Appraisals are only indirectly connected to market value and price.
You need an RE agent to supply recent closed sales.

So is it very easy for a REA to pull original listing price vs. selling price?

So is it very easy for a REA to pull original listing price vs. selling price?

It should be. On our MLS system an agent can click on a "history" button which will show all of the price and status changes on a property, and even if it has been listed before with another MLS number.

Mary,

Just a thought...

Do you know how many properties have actually sold in the area you're searching in, say, the past 4-5 months?

The reason I'm asking is because here in Mystic there have been so few sales that it's hard to determine market value. Market values are largely determined by comparing one property to another. Well, here there's little to compare. Market value is operating in a vacuum. I'm noticing price drops in the past 2-3 weeks on properties that have some similarities; but their listing prices are all over the board. It's like nobody knows where to set their price point. I would call our local market conditions very illiquid. The market needs active buyers & sellers to set prices. We are experiencing a dearth of buyers.

Maybe, that's what you're noticing in your area. The lack of sales is contributing to a wide divergence in the prices you're noticing?

Just a theory...

/tricia

Mary,

Which towns are you looking at?

I think tricia has hit the nail on the head, lack of buyers. Without buyers there is NO market, so even modest price drops may not draw interest

I think its the realtors. They're the ones recommending the listing price. They would also be the ones recommending price drops - which aren't happening.

That statement implies that clients always listen to their realtor's suggestions, which is so not true.

One of the toughest battles I face as a Realtor is to explain to people that often the "market value" of their home doesn't match their "emotional value", or worse yet, their "My neighbor sold their house for 20k more last year" value. If you recommend lower prices too much, they can accuse you of not "having confidence" in their home, and just wanting to "unload" it. And sometimes, dangit, they want *that* price, and they'll totally ignore market conditions. (Not all sellers, mind you, but this happens alot.)

Mary---
I don't think it's the sellers or the agents. I think you have moved to an area that is more expensive.

I don't recall exactly where your previous home was, but do recall it was on 10 acres for under $300,000. (hey--if I'm remembering incorrectly, please say so. In many parts of the country, that place would sell for double or triple that.

You've mentioned the density, maybe in another post. Higher density typically translates into higher housing costs. There is only so much land for so many people. Basic laws of supply and demand at work.

"Prices here do not seem to be dropping (I am looking at existing "pre owned" houses only). I have seen some inventory disappear from the MLS but whether that's people just taking houses off the market or selling I don't know.
I do know that prices seem way out of wack here and this WAS NOT a run up in appreciation area."

I also live in a place where prices didn't appreciate dramatically; a slow, steady 3-5%/year. There is no "bubble" to burst. Our prices have remained steady as has the overall market here. No big price drops compared to last year.

You've been on the forum long enough to know that real estate is LOCAL! You've moved into a market that seems to be more expensive than your previous place. You can do one of three things: keep renting, adjust your budget or your expectations if you want to buy, keep looking and hoping for the "deal."

Best of luck to you.

I have considered some of the same points rrah and you may be right.
But I'm comparing small to mid-size midwest cities to small to mid-size midwest cities. (I realize my previous 9 acres would be worth a fortune outside D.C. but...so what)
I don't understand WHY it would be more expensive here. Which kind of goes back to I hate the market here. Omaha has a healthy job economy and while growth may have slowed its still there. I just checked their unemployment rates - 3.5% Dayton has lost pop., unemployment avg around 5%
It is hard to get a fix on truly regional quirks vs. say state. I consider Ohio to be somewhat similar to Michigan, high foreclosure rates etc. Michigan is of course the worst off, Ohio following with somewhat better employment rates though I think if you took out Michigan's UP and upper lower Peninsula you'd have a more even comparison. I sold 4 years ago in Michigan and go back all the time. Its hard to suck up that in the last two places I looked I liked both areas so much better than here and oh btw I have to pay at the top end of my price range to get a location I still don't like.

I do think that there's some stubborness out there. For example, 6 months ago I looked at a FSBO I drove by when i was here on a house hunting trip. A small time hobby flipper had upgraded a few mechanicals and its not a bad little ranch on a decent lot, nice area - but the tiniest tiniest living room, no family room, 1 car garage, old appliances, no kitchen/bath updates. Its on the mls with a discount realty for the same price from 6 months ago.
As for prices being all over the place, part of it is I'm looking at stuff thats not necessarily part of old tract housing which is easier to price. Once you start looking at "country" stuff (although there is no real country here which is part of my major complaint) a lot of variables get thrown in, the more variables the more individual reasoning creates large differences (I think an old barn is worth X, the 10 ancient apple trees etc.) Non tract properties don't compare very well. I've been looking long enough to understand that and have an idea of pricing, but some of its just crazy weird. (Hey that's a crappy modular with zero trees on a busy road, does it matter it "in the country" on 3 parched acres of grass? )
I wonder on these whether the buyers bought with zero down and have no equity and are asking for appreciation plus to pay off loans. Most seem to have kept their property taxes up though.
I have a casual relationship with a realtor, on my 2nd actually, one pre moving one post. Have talked to a few others. Its very difficult to find ones who know/understand non-town properties. I have not found one yet.
Susanjn - I'm looking in sort of arc from Fairborn/Beavercreek north to Tipp City which is cute but a bad commute east on I-70, New Carlisle also ok, Springfield no so ok, Enon ick, Yellow Springs really crazy overpriced, Xenia really blah, south to about Spring Valley (a tiny village) over to Bellbrook where it gets built up and ritzy/higher priced.

Marys1000: I feel your pain. I've been looking hard and steady for 7 months since I finally made it up here in Maine. I don't get the pricing or the reasoning.
Some of it is the realtor's numbers - as you can tell that one realtor in particular has a lot of listings at some very out of wack prices - ultimately, it does come down to what the seller expects - after 12 months on the market - maybe lowering the price?? A lot of housing is not "have to sell" so that's one reason we are seeing high prices in an area that really should not command $200 to $300 sq. ft. - and since those don't sell - duh. Seven months of looking at sold numbers I have found that well priced fast moving homes in the city sell for around $100 sq. ft or a little over.

Affordability is key here - most (66.7%) Mainers can't afford the median priced house ($189K - and includes number from the very expensive counties in the south). Around here we have run across such a wide swing in pricing that it just makes me want to rip my hair out.

Most of the houses we have seen (even some as much as $400k) are in really poor condition. Dated, dirty, just plian wierd - but mostly dingy - unless it's new construction (rare around here) I've mostly encountered dingy and dark and dated and our price range is $250K up to $350K - the cleanest house in town that we found thus far is a foreclosure, but it has a messy mortgage issue - with a (realtively speaking small amount compared to the BoA one) superior lien ahead of the Bank of America foreclosed mortgage - it's going to be pretty iffy since no one around here will even hint at the bid conditions.

.... and on TV they say that buying foreclosures is easy. Ha!

MP

MP,

Buying real estate in New England is an eye-opening experience, huh? We just got home from a drive-by of the property I toured Wednesday. I wanted DH to see the general area before we tour it together tomorrow morning with the REA. It's a 1790 colonial on 6.5 acres of some of the loveliest ground I've ever seen. I'm thinking B&B...DH is thinking he should have me committed! lol

The old Keeping Room cooking hearth is still intact plus 3 other working fireplaces. There's a pond on the property plus gorgeous stone walls dividing the land into various parcels.

It's so difficult to compare prices on these old houses. How do I put a value on a 215 year old cooking hearth with bake oven still functioning? Or, the old-growth maples/oaks that are on the site? There's also a c. 1825 silo that's still functionable...great, what's that worth? So, I feel your pain. At least you're not looking from Bar Harbor south along the coast.

Maine is a funny place. Along the coast, prices are sky-high but a mile inland & it's a different world. My DIL is a native Mainer. Her Mom was born in Iceland & moved to Maine as a child. She grew up in Kingfield. I wouldn't have a clue how to value real estate in Kingfield?

Good luck with your search.

/tricia

Tricae - I'm not there but a windy hill with a view vs. trees, silo, cool hearth - unless I can walk to the water to swim, lay on a beach use a dock/boat launch or maybe a pretty close view - I'm probably with the trees and silo. But then I want chickens and a veggie garden.
Good luck trying to figure it out.
mmelko - ok I don't have that much experience buying homes, this will be my 3rd - but what it is with people not taking care of their homes? Do they overbuy for size and then have nothing else to do anything with? Of course it some ways its smart, you don't get much of if any of the money back, but it makes for nicer living.

Well, I was going to suggest Yellow Springs or Bellbrook. Would Springboro be too far for you?

I grew up in Dayton, and still have family in Kettering and Beavercreek. I still think Glen Helen at Antioch College is one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. Maybe that's why it is so expensive there (Yellow Springs).

Yellow Springs maintains its desirability and beauty because the people there literally invested their own money to buy up property to maintain green space and keep out urban sprawl. I have an aunt who lives there, and it is beautiful. Investing in your community, even if it's in your time and stewardship, pays back.

Lots of cute bungalow's in Kettering that I would like if I could live in town. I look at them on the MLS and love the woodwork. Really all my complaining doesn't apply to those suburbs, there seems to be quite nice housing there. Its anything outside of that that seems to be missing. At the higher price ranges you get way more house than I could begin to want as a single person even if I could afford it.
The area around Bellbrook seems very nice but it has really grown, sprawled and become quite developed. The gorge area immediately around Yellow Springs is pretty. The town itself, really doesn't strike me as anything out of the ordinary in terms of housing. It has a huge reputation for being counter culture, the couple of houses I saw there were not well maintained and incredibly pricey. Antioch is closing though they insist its only for awhile. Not sure what is going on there.
Waybnesville seems to be how far out people are going who want a little space seem to be going which seems to far for me.
Not sure what I'll do. Its quite frustrating as a "piece of dirt" is really a huge part of life for me.

Whoops - mean I'd live in a cute Kettering 1.5 if I could live in it OUT of town. Obviously if I could stand to live in town I'd be in a house already:)

Stuborn Sellers or Stuborn Buyers?? I found myself pondering the same question last year. But then I realized it doesn't matter because I'm not going to get an "exotic" mortgage, I'm not going to spend more than 30% of my income on housing, I'm not going to buy a $400K fixer upper and spend my life fixing my house and I'm not going put my life savings into a depreciating asset.

I'm going to rent. Renting isn't perfect but it beats the alternatives.

Chris, I don't necessarily disagree with you. But, it's not true that houses are depreciating assets. Over the long haul, statistics show that houses appreciate. Yes, short-term there is risk but historically & considering a 10-20 year period houses have proven to be appreciating assets.

True, a house does at some point experience both functional & economic obsolescence (normally considered by appraisers to be 99 years) but the land appreciates.

Hard to critisize your decision to rent right now.

/tricia

I really was disappointed when my CFP told me what I had been thinking - I'd be better investing my equity and renting than putting it back into a house. Sigh. Which takes me back to, well I'll suck up the potential financial loss if its the perfect house which takes me back to - can't find it (and yes there is the perfect enough house out there but that ONE is just not for sale:)
Went to a couple of open houses this weekend. Whee.. Does a nicer lot but a semi crummy house in a neighborhood that seems to be sliding maitenance wise and a neighbor man that seemed emotionally depressed really command 20,000 more than a nicer little ranch, nicer neighborhood smaller lot? Yeah anyway I'm getting tired of trying to figure out realtors and their pricing. They were both more than I'd have to pay for something similar in the last two places I've lived and crummier to boot. And neither exactly what I'm looking for.

Mary, it sounds like the land is very expensive. Maybe you should look into doing a tear-down.

3% appreciation off set by property taxes, maintenance, stuff to do maintenance with........

mary forget about the hidden stuff you mentoned above...3% will not even keep up with the actual inflation

Your right, and if we are heading into a recession which I think is very probable inflation rates might start to rise quite a bit. Appreciation here in this area probably every won't go up more than the past/current 3 or so percent.
Hm..perhaps another reason people are hesitant to buy.

I think its the buyers mentality which can be aggravated by certain realtors. For example - we have dropped the price on our $459K house $40,000 in the past few months. We had an oil tank (which turned out be a concern) and removed that, got the gas company to come down our street (everyone else has oil). Then we installed a brand new gas furnace and heating system, costing thousands. Everything in the house is new or within 2-4 years old - with the exception of the powder room tile floor and windows. We are only listed $5000 higher than 3 sales of homes on the busier street around the corner (we have a colonial on a cul de sac those were bilevels on a busier street). Yesterday we had an offer for $365,000! You can not even get a 4 bedroom home with a garage in a decent neighborhood - let alone a house in nearly top condition for that price. What an insult. The agent presented comps for houses located in different parts of the county, including a few 3 bedroom condos 30 minutes away. Fortunately our agent set the record straight with that agent that if they were looking for a fire sale, our house was not going to be the one for them. We countered $2K less upon our agents recommendation. So I am torn about where to place blame, but I can't say I completely blame the agents unless they are misleading buyers into thinking that the market is so bad, and all sellers are so desperate that they are simply going to bale out at any price! The buyers agent wrote a letter saying how here buyers were renting and ready to go and hinted at how that might save us some money, and then admitted she had not looked at the brand new furnace or read the agents notes on the listing pointing that out.

Agents, tell me - in this market - how do agents sell houses to buyers without take a few minutes to learn the details of the house to point them out to the buyers- especially since the listing agent is normally (at least in our area) never at showings?

Ooo Ooo I hope I find a house priced with neighborhood comps that have been maintained AND updated mechanicals! And I hate bilevels - are your locals insane? Unless they just didn't have the money and figured what the heck.
Realtors can definantly be a crap shoot.
I think it would have been constructive for your agent to talk their agent through all market, pricing, comps, updates details rather than just huff. Maybe the other realtor just really is new or doesn't get it. I've been going to open houses and calling and asking questions and I run into the gamut of experience of personalities out there.

I am confused, what is your current list price, 459K or 419K?

Current price is $429K (we started at $469 and are down to bare bones now $40K lower). As it turns out we hear back from the buyers agent - they came up $20K, but just don't have the budget beyond that. Well, I suppose I feel better that they liked the house and made an offer but they sure spun our wheels with 4+ showings and a visit with the parents- only to find out their absolute maximum price is less than 90% of our current list price - I think the agent was foolish to bother trying to concoct silly comps to support such a lowball - we were actually more insulted by that then by the actual offer itself - which I did think was someone who liked the house but did not have the budget for it. We did have another 2 showings this week and 1 tomorrow. Funny thing is they say your first offer is your best...sure hope that is not true in our case!

trying2buy - in many parts of the country your $429K house cost less than $250K five years ago. I think the buyer's perception of a house's real value is partly based on knowing what they cost before the recent bubble.

Why be insulted with a lowball offer? And why be further insulted with an agent who tries to justify the lowball offer with comps (even if they were irrelevant)? Take a deep breath and repeat after me: "This is not personal, it is a business transaction."

The buyer is supposed to try to get the best deal that they can. Their agent is supposed to do whatever he or she can to support her buyers' position. Do you think the buyers should have been insulted with your counteroffer of only $2k below list? Of course not, because (everyone now) this is not personal it is a business transaction.

We just bid, unsuccessfully, on a home here in pricey Northern Virginia...homes increased about 125% during the boom. Pricing is all over the place but since we have 10 months of inventory on the market, I'd say that our area remains priced higher than most people can afford using a traditional mortgage product.

The house that caught our eye has been on the market 5 months...no offers. We thought the house was 30% overpriced according to recent comps so we started our offer at 26% under their asking price. I figured the perceived lowball would insult them but I didn't worry too much about that. Clearly, the sellers weren't concerned about insulting prospective buyers with their list price. I don't agree that business is business and emotions have no place in a real estate transaction. Like it or not, emotions will seep into a process this personal and, as a business person, I need to figure that into my equation and manage accordingly. We hoped that our strength as buyers would encourage a few rounds of countering, despite our "lowball."

We started at 26% of list (yes, I know); 60% down; financing (30 yr/FRM) solidly in place; no home to sell; one contingency - home inspection with a promise not to ask for repairs unless they totalled more than $5000, 60-day close. We also provided charts, market data, and comps to support our offer. We worked very hard to provide logical and solid support. I needed to justify the offer to myself first.

They countered with a 2% list price reduction and a six-month close to "find their home of choice." We came up 10% and agreed to the six-month close. They chose not to counter. Game over.

The list agent was very disappointed they didn't counter. She agrees the house is overpriced but the sellers are adamant. Basically, they are tired of commuting and want to move closer to the city w/o trading down. In order to do that, they need every dime they can suck out of their current home. Otherwise, they won't sell. Also, they were, indeed, very insulted by our offer. The believe their landscaping elevates their home over other similar properties. We're about $250K apart...that's a lot of shrubs.

Are they too stubborn? Are we? We knew what we thought was a fair price. They believe the FMV of their home is much higher. We just could not agree on a fair price. As a buyer, I wouldn't pander to their notion of fair by overpaying. As sellers, they were not going to be held hostage to a lowballer trying to take advantage of a lousy market. Fair really is in the eye of the beholder.

I think it's going to take quite some time for various real estate markets to right themselves. Psychology in real estate is so important.

I've included a link to a thread posted, almost a year, ago on this very subject. It's interesting comparing then and now.

Here is a link that might be useful: When Sellers Won't Budge...

novahomesick: "We started at 26% of list (yes, I know)"

I hope you meant to say that you started at 26% below list; i.e., 74% of the list price.

Novahomesick: "The list agent was very disappointed they didn't counter. She agrees the house is overpriced but the sellers are adamant."

If the listing agent actually told you that, she should march into her office, tell her broker that she has come to the realization that she is too incompetent to be an agent, and turn in her license before she victimizes another poor seller whom she is supposed to be representing in a financial transaction.

Real estate is hard on everybody it seems. Have you though to have your realtor let their realtor know to recontact you should they decide to come down? Just in case they do while your still looking.

please take this in a constructive way....forget about your initial list price. To the buyers your initial list price of 469k does not mean anything, all they look at is what is your current list price. I know it is difficult but try not to compare any future offers to 469k and your price negotiations will go much smoother and more likely to be successfull.

Bethesdamadman - Thanks for the catch. I did mean 26% below list. Post in haste, repent in leisure.

No, the listing agent did not communicate directly with us. We would have been very taken aback to hear such blunt communication from a listing agent. The insight was conveyed to us by our realtor who conducted the negotiation. I'm thinking they have ways of talking to each other...secret code stuff. My agent's pretty good about reading situations so I trust her reports.

Mary...they know.

We had another very interested couple - loved the house - thought they would be willing to pay about 75% of the list price (?). As it turns out they are only approved to buy 85% of our list price. Our agent says she is screening the people who come to see the house but only to the point that they are appoved to 400K. These recent lowballs are from first time buyers - we have had 1 or 2 interested couples (second time buyers) but they both have their house or condo on the market and have not sold yet (possible they could come back but we could never count on it). I am wondering if our agent shouldn't be sceening that the buyers are approved to $425 before the house. If she asks another agent if the buyer is approved and the agent says yes but to $400K and our agent tells them to see the house knowing we will not take less than $400K what does that accomplish (except frustrating everyone).

We are so frustrated we are considering taking the lockbox off.

Sometimes I wonder what realtors are smoking. For example, there are two realtors I know of who are selling their own homes. Each one is way overpriced. Are they really wanting to move? Or are they just playing? One has been on the market for 9 months now and the price has dropped 10% over time. The other has been on market a few weeks. he has it priced $25,000 more than what the highest priced house in that neighborhood has ever sold for and the other house was nicer and 400 sf bigger (and sold 4 months ago). Other than the higher square footage and nice amenities, IMO, they are pretty much apples to apples. In this market now, what makes him think his own house is going to get him $25,000 more? Not sure what he is thinking. All I can guess is they put the homes on the market and just hope they sell. If they sell, they'll move. If not, no big deal?

NoVA is a funny market.
Sales simply plummet and houses remain on the market when things are not going well.
The last time was around 1979-1980.
At one point Arlington County recorded about 5-6 sales in a month.
Prices just sit.
The market has come back after a pause every time, and the sellers now it.
One of the problem,s occurring now is the knockdowns.
Small one story houses (some even on crawl spaces) siting on $500,000 lots in McLean and other desirable areas.
The house gets knocked down, but to make a decent return the houses start at $1 million.
The market in the $750k range is thin again.
The 'move up' buyers have a tough time finding the next house, and the market lurches to a halt for a while.
Pop-ups have started up again as folks decide it is not worth leaving a good location just for a larger house, and the only ones available in many places are the expensive knock down replacements.

We got really irritated with a realtor once. We were relocating and she kept putting this one house on our list and told us we just "had" to see it. We explained several times that we weren't interested in a house that was on a busy street. We broke down and drove by the house only to see on the sign that she was listed as the agent/owner of the home. I think she was hoping to unload this home at a premium price on unsuspecting transferees. Got a very bad taste in my mouth after that experience.

I'd been following a 1 BR 2 bath condo in the Maui complex where we own a vacation rental because it's a comp for ours. I believe this condo was bought by a 'flipper', although I have no sure knowledge of that. If so, he got caught when the bubble burst. Rather than bite the bullet, he not only lost money on the sale but carried the property a year longer than he had to.

He bought it for $745K in September 2005. He made no improvements -- perhaps some paint.

He listed it for $835K in 2006 and dropped to $829K by the end of 2006. In 2006 a nearly identical unit (same size, same ocean view) was listed at $825K and sold for $775K that July.

The supposed 'flipper' finally sold for...yes, $775K...in May 2007. Unless he was his own realtor he lost 2% plus the cost of carrying the unit almost an extra year.

I've been watching our old neighborhood in SoCal (Orange County) since we moved to another state last November.

We had originally listed for $600-615k. After our first buyer fell out in escrow, we had many showings but no offer for about another month. Finally sold our house for $589k minus $12k closing costs (they're high in California) after about 2 months on the market.

The house directly behind us, which was bigger but on the same size lot, was also for sale. Their list price for a long time was $650k. They didn't start reducing the price until several months after we'd moved. Now it's still on the market and they've just reduced the price another $20k - it's now at $460k - $190k below their first asking price. According to zillow, they bought the house in 2004 for $475k, so they'll sell it at a loss.

BTW, the zillow estimate for that house is currently $622k, so their value estimates are way off base for that area.

I know some other sellers in the neighborhood were upset with us for selling at the price we did, but we needed to move so we did what it took. We were in a rapidly declining market and wanted to stay ahead of it. Others, who waited, have now lost more money or have taken their houses off the market.

We were fortunate to have an experienced realtor (17 years in the business) who had seen ups and downs and knew how to price accordingly. And we took his advice, and I had read a lot of information here on this forum that also helped us sell.

Declining markets are hard ...

Brickeyee,

I seem to remember a significant downturn in the 90/92 time period followed by years of flat prices. What were your experiences with that period.

I think that it is unrealistic sellers. Realtors can be just as emotionally attached and unrealistic when they are selling their own homes as any other sellers.

Seems to me from reading some posts, that this process may take a while to digest. If that is the case, these "stubborn" sellors may actually sell at their prices years from now due to inflation alone.

Buying ahouse now for $500,000 or in 3 years at $500,000 isn't really the same, on many levels for both parties.

On paper, people renting would be ahead, BUT they would have to invest the remainder of their money consistantly during these years and the timing of the market has to be in their favor. It's hard to time a 3 or 5 year period for stock market investing, while renting, and waiting to buy a house at the "bottom".

This is if inflation does appear as some have predicted. Very interesting to see how all this plays out. I do see a constant though... Severe swings... or at least the anticipation of them.

"I seem to remember a significant downturn in the 90/92 time period followed by years of flat prices. What were your experiences with that period."

You are correct.
I got the wrong decade (it has been a long time and many properties since).
The last NoVA crunch was 1989-1990.
I got an estate house for $210k, and finally moved in after adding central air.
It sold around $380k after 10 years.
My wife did not like the school district.

cissado -- The 'rising inflation' thing happened to us. We wanted to buy a property in 1997 but the seller would not budge off her list price. Two years later, after much inflation, we bought it at the same price. She thought she'd 'won' and her judgement had been justified. We still thought we'd paid too much...until the lot next door sold in 2002 for 20% more than we'd paid. (And the prices are still rising here. Number of sales are way down, but median prices are up 12%.)

We have a signed contract as of today on our co-op apartment, which went on the market June 18. For us it was STUBBORN SELLERS (sorry, Husband, but it's true). We ended up getting 94% of asking price and The Spouse is still grumbling about it. It was pulling teeth to get him to come down $25K from our asking price, then to negotiate further down from there. Seeing that the subprime mess and resulting buyer jitteriness started about a week after we went on the market, I'm pleased with our end result.

Prices are rising but sales are down - does not the lack of sales reflect that prices need to come down, not go up?

I can keep increasing the price of my house and so long as it does not sell, isn't the market telling me that my price is too high?

I've been seeing these news propaganda stories put out by the state and national realtor associations touting how prices are going up - of course sales have dropped 13% since the same month last year up here in the oddly temperate far north east.

Finally I saw an article today - from back in my old stomping ground - that says exactly what is happening in the market back there - more houses on the market than in the last 18 years and price drops averaging $20K with an 11 month inventory.

Again, I say, even though we are cramped in a small apartment and most of our belongings are in storage - we were lucky, lucky, lucky to get out when we did.

MP