Occupancy at closing is typical in St. Paul, Minnesota. However, with the 2 houses we bought/sold there, the seller had house cleaners in cleaning a short while after the completion of closing as a courtesy to buyers.

If you have a seller make repairs and something is wrong, you will have to pursue the seller to have the defect corrected.
You have no contractual relationship with the person performing the work.
You sue the seller, they sue the installer.

If YOU have the work performed you have established a contractual relationship with the person doing the work and can seek satisfaction directly from them.

NEVER have a seller perform work. It WILL be done by the low bidder to the minimum allowed.

Sylvia -
Most buyers would prefer to have their own contractors work on the house.

I do agree about that. However, I don't have my own contractor since I moved across the country two weeks ago. It's great if it's an in city move, but it isn't the case here.

What if it meets code but the item still doesn't perform like you want it to?

Once the sale is closed, the seller is out of there, & if the buyer is unhappy with the work, lotsa luck getting the contractor or the seller back, especially if contract negotiations have been as contentious as these sound like.

I want it to meet code. I realize that if something goes wrong after the fact, that's our problem. What I want right now is to ensure it is in working and SAFE condition for when we move in.

"satisfaction"?

the seller here may suspect, based on experience so far, that you'll never be happy with those repairs no matter what she does, & that you'll demand more money after she's had everything done.

Not necessarily. My concern is that the listing advertised the houses with a triple heated garage. After the inspection and my realtor's convos with the LA, we discovered that the seller had not used the garage heat in many years. This was not stated on the disclosure, instead, they stated it was in good working order with no problems. That is not the case. I am worried about what else they didn't disclose. I based my offer upon tthe disclosure and then found things out after the fact.

Based on MY experience, I'm covering our bums. I trusted the previous sellers to do what they promised and they didn't. I moved to a new city without my husband while he was away training, at the last minute money had to be held in escrow b/c the seller lied that they fixed things they promised in the contract. He didn't fix anything and I was left with 30 days to find contractors to come fix the things in a new city where I had no clue who to call in the middle of Tucson summer when these jobs were typically done in the cooler months.

I learned the hard way last time. I will not repeat that mistake.

As long as the repairs put the electrical in a SAFE and working order, I will be happy. The problem is the seller originally balked at fixing anything.

Also, she's reduced the price & done a lot of repairs already, so she probably feels she's being very cooperative & that you're being difficult & unreasonable.

She has not reduced the price. She was listed at $254,900, we offered $238K, she countered at $245K and we accepted with the HI clause. She has done no repairs. She originally refused to do ANY repairs, at which time, I was going to walk, then she changed her mind. As of now, the LA told my realtor he is sending the addendum that the repairs will be done.

I never never never encourage a seller to agree to give a buyer possession at closing;
I strongly advise them to have at least 24 hours delay.
"possession at closing" (or funding) puts the seller at a disadvantage at closing.

It may be common in your area, it is not here. I would never buy a home where I didn't have immediate occupancy at closing.

Seller in the house at closing puts the buyer at an extreme and risky insurance and litiguous liability.

& if I were selling my home & I found out that my buyer called me a dickhead, I wouldn't budge even if I had to put the house back on the market.

She is being a dickhead. We asked for reasonable repairs from the HI. There were plumbing issues we did not ask to be fixed. There is snow on the ground where we cannot determine the grading away from the house. There is an egress window with a huge window well that is not covered that anyone walking around the corner could fall into. Many things that are unseen, we will have to determine in the spring after the snow melts. Given that, we are being extremely reasonable and ONLY asked for the electrical safety issues.

You must do what you think is right for you, but I would caution any buyer against jerking a seller's, or anybody's, strings relentlessly.

I am not jerking any strings. I am looking out for our best interests. It is not in our best interest to allow a seller to have possession of what will be OUR home after closing. We lost nearly $50K on our previous house, we cannot afford any risk whatsoever.

sylvia - Homeonwers insurance policies have a provision for liability coverage when the insured has just bought the house & the seller hasn't moved out yet, & the Sellers Temporary Lease has language that makes them responsible for their own liability & losses.

So, that puts us in the position of having to make an insurance claim when we have a clean insurance record? Why should WE the buyer have to make an insurance claim b/c the seller damaged what is our house at the time? No thanks.

I don't want to go through any legal maneuvers to complicate the situation. When we move in, it is our house. Period. I don't want any legal liability, I don't want any risk of an insurance claim... that is a much huger risk than the seller is taking.

cordovamom - I've always found that courtesy and understanding goes a long way during the stressful time of a real estate transaction. Not everyone has nefarious and underhanded reasons for their actions. We've never had a bad experience selling or buying any of our 7 homes, but we've indeed had special circumstances on both the selling and buying end, where understanding and honest negotiations by both parties resulted in a satisfactory outcome for both parties. Give the woman the benefit of the doubt that she's stressed, probably from the divorce as well as the whole house selling process. I don't blame a seller at all for not wanting to give possession at closing, especially in light of her previous deal falling through. She wants to sell the house, you want to buy the house, work together civilly towards a good solution for you both.

I agree, I wish the seller would use courtesy and understanding when we showed proof of our financing, proof of our mid 700 credit scores and a statement showing we had the cash for down payment.

Unfortunately, the last house we bought, the seller was underhanded and lied about things he fixed, but did not.

I would love to have a happy go lucky journey in buying this home, however, the seller, despite proving our worthiness financially to buy the home continues to be difficult and then refused outright to fix anything. We said we'd walk then suddenly, she changed her mind.

I have negotiated in good faith. I have been honest and only asked for safety related items to be repaired. The seller has been in an emotional tizzy, has been difficult and suspect of US when we have more than proved our honest intent to go thru with the transaction.

I understand her previous deal fell through. That is not our fault. I can understand why she is cautious, just like she must understand why we are cautious because we were also burned in the past too.

deb - I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that statement.

If by chance the wiring repair malfunctions sometime in the next 6 months, do you think you're going back to the seller for help with that repair?

Absolutely not. I want it in safe and working condition when we move in with receipts from licensed electrician proving the work is done to code.

What I mean recourse to the seller is that they have the responsibility to get the work done so the house is safe to move into.

If a buyer came back to me a few months after closing complaining that the repair needed additional work after I paid for the repair using a contractor and bid we both agreed on, my response would be no.

If the repair was performed incorrectly, I don't think the seller is on the hook...it would be the contractor who did the work.

Occupancy at close seems to be a regional thing. I tend to go with whatever the custom is in the area I'm buying/selling.

This is why I will have our HI inspect everything at walkthru to ensure it is in working order.

patser - Occupancy at closing is typical in St. Paul, Minnesota. However, with the 2 houses we bought/sold there, the seller had house cleaners in cleaning a short while after the completion of closing as a courtesy to buyers.

That is exactly what I did for our buyer in Tucson. She came for the walk thru on the day of closing. I was present and showed her how to work the pond, where the water shutoff was and the basics of the house. I also had the carpets professionally cleaned and a cleaning crew come in to clean the house after we moved out. In fact, the cleaning crew was still there when we were doing the walkthru. I did this as a courtesy to the buyer so that she had a clean house to move into, even though the carpet was brand new in January and no one walked on it with shoes.

"& if I were selling my home & I found out that my buyer called me a dickhead, I wouldn't budge even if I had to put the house back on the market."

Wow Sylvia - I don't think she said this to the sellers face. Who on here doesn't get frustrated during this process? For the seller to find out, she'd either have to be on here OR someone on here would have to narc out our sweet sparksals. I can't imagine anyone on here doing that, could you? I would hope that sparksals could vent here in safety - but you just never know.

Thanks guvnah! Much appreciated.

chisue - I'd be more concerned about heating this multi-level house than about the garage heat. You can buy a gas space heater for very little and stick it in the garage on its own thermostat -- or just fire it up as needed.
Do I understand that you did or did not have a HI? How old is the house? (Didn't think they were still building split-levels!)

I'd prefer to identify the problems; get estimates on repairs; deduct those costs from the price; do the repairs myself. That's the only way you can KNOW they are done and done properly. (Some repair warranties are restricted to the owner -- don't transfer.)

I'm concerned about the garage heat because it was listed as a triple heated garage, the disclosure did not state that the heat did not work or that the heat in there had not been used in years. I based my offer on the disclosure stating that there were no problems with the heated garage, the listing stating a triple heated garage and what I could see with the naked eye. Isnt' that why we get HI's?

We bought a split level house that has 5 bedrooms, 4 baths, completely developed basement, a huge backyard with a nice patio, a great kitchen with lots of storage space in a nice neighbourhood on 1/3 acre. The masterbedroom is huge, fits our furniture and gives us room to spare. Most homes I looked at, the masterbedrooms were too small.

Perhaps split levels don't fit your criteria for a house, but for us it is fine. We will be in this house for many years, hopefully until we retire. To each his own, I guess.

Yes, we DID have an HI by a very thorough inspector. The house was built in 1995.

I would have loved to get the repairs deducted from the price of the house, however, the seller claims she has no money. The Listing Agent is paying for the repairs and then taking it out of her closing funds.

Speaking of someone seeing ur post on here and knowing who you are, DOES HAPPEN!! Happened to me in the pet forum!! We were thinking of adopting a greyhound. We were very certain that was route we were going, but had some concerns!! So I posted those concerns on the pet forum! Yeppers someone managed to figure out it was I, and soon enough had an email from that greyhound rescue group asking me along the lines why I wasn't sure about adopting and maybe I should take more time in my decision!! So it can happen!! I'm always surprised on how much info people say in their posts on here when it comes to home buying/selling!!

sorry some are giving you a hard time Sparkals, I think you did a great job!!

Sparksals, Angie's List is often a good source of information on local contractors and other home services -- area homeowners post reviews and ratings based on their experiences. I used it extensively when we last relocated because, like you, I didn't know anyone in the city, and our new house needed a LOT of work.

Your real estate agent may also be able to provide names of contractors that s/he or his/her clients have used successfully in the past.

I hope you're able to reach an agreement with the seller soon to get the electrical and heat issues resolved so you and your husband can finally move into your house! It's been a long journey but you're almost home now ...

~Hannah

How does the seller give you possession at closing?
When does the seller move out?

Spaksals -I've read your posts for a long time, I must say right now you are also emotional about this house. Slow down and consider every move you make. Don't keep reliving your past experience, use it for information about how to handle this transaction, but don't take out your anger on this current situation. I really hope all goes well for you and you get the house you want.

"How does the seller give you possession at closing?
When does the seller move out?"

Exactly.
When we sold out home our buyer insisted on immediate occupancy- it was a real sticking point. So I had to put all of my belongings on a truck and spend the night on a patio lounge chair with all the animals while the husband and his invalid Mother stayed in a comfy hotel.

And you know what?
Our closing was delayed.
"Maybe tomorrow".
Then tomorrow comes "Maybe later this afternoon", then later in the afternoon they said "Tomorrow for sure". Then two hours later they called back and said "Be at the office in 30 minutes".
Is this any way to close the largest transaction in your financial life?

There is no fear like the fear you feel when your belongings are in a truck in another state while you sit on a patio chair hoping you haven't just made the most expensive mistake in your life. If the deal falls through at the last minute you are in a real pickle.

There are so many arrangements that have to be made and they are final and irrevocable steps- canceling insurance and utilities and so on. No seller should be expected to have to do all of these things until it is a done deal- house sold, no turning back.

I understand that our system allows for last minute closings and postponements and eleventh hour backing out. But it's a lousy system, especially in this regard.

cmarlin - I wouldn't call it emotional, but guarded. I certainly don't consider a holdover where the seller remains in what is now my home as being emotional. It is protecting ourselves and our assets from liability. I'm just trying to prevent previous mistakes.

Keep in mind, I'm doing this all myself while my husband has been away for 6 months. I've had to make decisions for the both of us with only consulting him on the phone which included the selling of our house in Tucson, hiring movers, packers, our finances - everything. I've driven across the country myself with two dogs, skirted the midwest storms, moved to a strange city myself where I have no friends or family and found a temp rental while looking for a house. It's a huge weight on my shoulders where I'm trying to do the right thing for both of us.

AS it stands, the seller agreed to the fixes, most turned out to be minor repairs. In the garage, a GFI was tripped, once it was fixed, the electric in the garage works. They have signed the addendum and I just initialled the changes. The lender ordered the appraisal, so, it looks like the deal is a go.

Closing is Jan. 28 with immediate occupancy, no holdo-over.

Congratulations sparksals! I'm sure you can see the light at the end of the tunnel so stay strong!

After reading the emails from Sparksals, it really gives me a new appreciation for Realtors. They deal with folks like this all the time. Sparksals is emotional and bullheaded too but is too deep in the details to realize this and will debate it to no end.

...All this stuff about safety and DIY electric and such and it ends up being a GFI that was tripped . The deal could have fallen through over something so trivial that the buyer thought was sooooooo big.

The realtors made that deal happen and they are they earned every penny and then some.

Sellers move out AFTER closing often in many areas. I'd like to hear from some of the Realtors on this board if there were ever situations related to what Sparksals is so paranoid about(where buyer doesn't get possession at time of closing and something goes wrong a couple days after closing, before the buyer gets possession).

sparksals, I did not mean my questions about immediate occupancy to be the reason I believe you are letting emotions cloud your thinking. They were honest questions.

My comment about your emotions was based on all your posts in this thread and your rant about the seller. I understand being emotional about a home purchase, it is not wrong to be emotional, just good to understand your own emotions.
I really hope it all goes well for you.

Sparksals is emotional and stubborn because she wants to take possession of her house the day she hands over the cash for it!? Now I've heard everything!

What happens in the areas where it is not "customary" for the seller to leave at closing and the papers are signed, the money is deposited, and the seller decides they aren't leaving (either due to convenience or because their next house isn't ready or one of a million other reasons). What happens then? How long does it take to evict someone in that area? And, why go through the extra expense, hassle and aggravation?

Or, the seller stays and the house burns down. Oops.

Or, the seller stays and gets hurt. They sue the current homeowner (which isn't them!)

Or....

I can go on and on. It is not paranoia, it is reality. Insurance only covers so much and it never covers aggravation. It only takes one problem and the buyer is royally screwed. I would never want to be that buyer.

As I said before, I know in some areas it is "customary" to have a hold-over.... but so is not having legal representation. Neither "custom" strikes me as good business for the buyer or seller.

When we stayed past closing, we were required to put a large sum of money in escrow with the buyer's attorney in addition to presenting the buyer with a check for all their costs (PMI, taxes, insurance) for the period we occupied the home past closing. Every contract was different but one contract provided that if we did not vacate on or before the agreed upon time, our "rent" was tripled and would be deducted from the money in escrow. This was a sizable amount and certainly an incentive to make sure we moved on time. In addition to the walk through prior to closing, we had an additional walk through after the movers left. If anything was amiss, the cost was to be deducted from our holdover amount.

I w/you on the heated garage! We're in Iowa and it's sure nice to get into my car in the morning in a heated garage. I will NEVER not have an attached, heated garage ever again.

It is uncommon in the Midwest for a seller to remain in a house after the buyer has taken possession, money has changed hands, etc.

I wish you the best and yes it is emotional buying/selling anything whether is it a house, car or even a pet. Try living with a retired building inspector and deal with the emotional issues. I think our house here is the only one in the whole state that meets LA County building codes. And we did not need anything expect a electric permit and even that was oh so interesting!!!! Code book in hand (not mine) and inspector trying to do his job.
He did admit afterwards, he needed to refresh his own knowledge.
I know that to get a true inspection, LA county inspectors do what they call an Occupancy Inspection, just to make sure any additions/remodels/ etc had permits and there was no health or safety problems.
Again good luck and enjoy you new place.

Wow, I can't believe that some people are faulting sparksals here.

1) In CA, it is NOT customary to hand over possession after closing. I realize it's different in other parts of the country, but in areas where possession happens on the date of closing, usually the seller puts keys in escrow and they are handed over after funding. I know of 1 person who agreed to a 48 hour holdover with his seller. Seller refused to leave the house, and my friend had to call the cops to try to get him out of the house. I don't think I'll ever agree to a holdover after that.

2) I've come to the conclusion that some sellers are (to be very generous) clueless about the condition of their home or wilfully blind (to be less generous) or they outright lie when it comes to listings. I looked at a house that said it had air conditioning in the listing. The agent said it had air conditioning. When we put the offer in, it came back with a counter that indicated it had no air conditioning! I live where temperatures routinely hit 90+ in the summer, so I think they'd know if it had AC or not. I don't think it's unreasonable to be suspicious of sellers that don't fill out disclosures or listings properly. At best, they don't know anything about their house, and at worst, they're lying.

I hope everything works out for you sparksals -- this can't be easy, particularly given that you're new to the area!

The realtors made that deal happen and they are they earned every penny and then some.

That was the case on our deal and I freely admit it. My realtor was a saint. My inner three-year-old was having a week-long stomp fit and he just listened, let it roll off and proceeded to do what needed to be done to make the deal work. And did it all with humor and grace, which is more than I could say, for sure! I had no clue I'd turn into seller-zilla, and he earned every penny.

However, with the 2 houses we bought/sold there, the seller had house cleaners in cleaning a short while after the completion of closing as a courtesy to buyers.

The buyers on my MIL's house wrote into the contract that she would have it professionally cleaned the day before closing. Not a big deal -- except they weren't moving in for 6 weeks and were gutting/redoing the kitchen and five bathrooms before they did. So a pretty uncalled for point of contention.

sweet tea - ...All this stuff about safety and DIY electric and such and it ends up being a GFI that was tripped . The deal could have fallen through over something so trivial that the buyer thought was sooooooo big.

Quite honestly, I don't even know why I'm wasting time typing an answer to you because your post was uncalled for.

The garage electrical was a tripped GFI. Yes. However, there was still the issue of the garage heater, the receptacles in two rooms that were a safety hazard according to our inspector, two air vents that did not work and a leak on the water heater pipe.

The issue was NOT solely over a tripped GFI. Get over yourself.

I don't care if sellers don't move out after closing in other areas. In this area, they do. When the money is transferred and the deal recorded, the house belongs to US. Funny, this seller wasn't willing to escrow any money for the privilege of staying in what will be MY home. Their answer to everything was they had no money.

You make some very interesting assumptions that are WAY off base.

cmarlin - Thanks. Appreciate that. I understand what you're saying.

xamsx - Bingo!

cordovamom - this seller kept saying they didn't have any extra money. They wanted to stay in the house for free with no financial incentive to get out as promised.

Sparksals, this has been a very informative post for me and a good reminder of all the things that can happen in the selling and buying of real estate. FWIW, I don't think you're being unreasonable in your requests in that all the electricity should be in working order and up to code. A builder couldn't sell a home without it being in that condition, nor should anyone else be able to do so unless the seller is aware and signs off in agreement.

Maybe some of our realtors in this forum can tell me what recourse she would have if she agreed to the seller staying in the home after closing, moves her belongings over the next couple days or so, and when Sparksals enters the home, it's not as it appeared prior to closing? I've bought and sold five homes and never did I stay in after closing. When is the pre-closing inspection done and what good is it if the sellers belongings are in the home and are covering up something defective? I recently read a post where something similar happened and the area rug revealed a concrete floor underneath of it.

If you buy a car, don't you expect to take it home once you sign the papers? If you sell a car, do you tell the people you sold it to that you'd like the use of the car for another day or two after they've paid and received the title for it? I know it's not a home, but once I pay for something, it is mine. Plain and simple. Obviously this is common practice throughout the country in different areas but I'm glad it hasn't been the case for me.

I also can't help but think of the tenant we had to evict from our property. It took almost four months, despite attorneys and the local law enforcement because laws are there that often protect the person who is currently in possession of the property. I wouldn't have believed it could happen if I hadn't lived it myself. It seemed very simple. Their lease was up, it was our home, they didn't have the money to continue to live there, but we couldn't just throw them into the streets, turn off the electric, change the locks, etc. It turned into a long, drawn out process that ended up costing us over $10k in legal fees that we were told we were entitled to collect from the tenant we evicted.

Good luck with the move and hope things work out well for you. We're in the process of trying to sell my Mother's home after her living there for 55 years. We sold ours within two weeks of listing it and I realize how fortunate we were after hearing so many other posters on this board. It has been four months now and we've had offers that we've accepted but financing has fallen through in each case. I really wish the media would stop talking about how "bad" it is, it just makes things worse IMO.

patty cakes: "Sparksals, you've said everything that needed to be said, and got varying opinions, some not exactly uplifting. You don't need this, honey. Go over to the home decorating forum where most of the time things are light and easy, and ask a decorating question. You need positive re-inforcement, not negative."

Let me say first of all, that I am 100% on sparksal's side in this "debate." I agree with everything she has said and everything she has done. That being said, I disagree with patty cake's perception of how this thread has progressed. If you go back and read sparksal's first post, you will see that she described what had transpired and what her course of action was. She then ended her post with three words: "What say ye." By doing so, she opened the topic to diverse opinions. This has been an interesting discussion and I think that some eyes were opened about how real estate transactions are handled in different parts of the country.

Contrary to patty cake's recommendation to go over to a "light and easy" board such as home decorating for positive affirmation, I believe that this board works quite well BECAUSE we offer differing opinions to posters coming here to seek guidance and advice. This would be a pretty dull and useless board if all we did was commiserate with posters who share their problems here.

*I* couldn't handle it, and could any of you *women* honestly do ALL of this alone? The move to another city alone would be enough to put me over the edge.

OMG That's just too funny.

Women (not lesbian dykes for all of you who immediately jump to that conclusion)
Do this sort of thing ALL THE TIME. Married and single mothers do it with children. Mothers, single and otherwise deploy to IRAQ.

I've moved from state to state all alone myself twice. And deployed, but not to Iraq. I'm not saying it was fun but really. Snort.

Sparksals - You go girl! I've been reading this thread the entire time and am quite amazed at some of the responses.
Also, being in (southern) NJ my entire adult life there is NEVER a holdover period after settlement. (Unless it's written otherwise in the contract). You deal with it. Money changes hands, you hand over the keys and that's it- done deal - seller out buyer in.
The whole purpose of a walk thru the day of close is to SEE the EMPTY house to make sure you KNOW what your are buying so money CAN be put aside in escrow for those nasty little hidden secrets that were missed. Back in the 80's-early 90's I was a REALTOR and I can say that I never had any problems with people delaying settlement (for days after moving out), not leaving the premises, not removing their belongings.
It 's been over 7 years since I've purchased my last house maybe times have really changed.
I'm still with you all the way!

IMO, Sparksals did an excellent job finding and negotiating for the home she wanted, in good condition, for a fair price. That's not easy when one knows the market well. That's not easy when one can be in constant dialogue with one's spouse. Current market conditions made the challenge all the more daunting. When prices are falling you don't want to pay too much for a home in perfect condition, let alone take on deferred maintenance costs that you can't recover.

Kudos to Sparksals for hanging in there, finding a good real estate professional and a thorough HI to help her in an area that is unfamiliar to her, and ultimately getting the house, the fix-ups, and the price she wanted.

Many, many times on this forum sellers are advised to take care of mechanical problems before putting their homes on the market because first, when "little" problems come to light on inspection potential buyers question whether the home has other hidden defects, and second, most buyers want a home to be move-in ready and don't want the delays, hassles, and costs of repairing maintenance issues (the expense of which they tend to overestimate and adjust their offers accordingly). Sparksals's negotiations are a case in point.

Thanks to Sparksals for providing a window on the thought process of a buyer in today's housing market. Best wishes for a smooth closing. And welcome to Minnesota, new neighbor!

Amen Bethesdamadman -- every real estate transaction is different -- every opinion varies -- isn't it great we live in America where we can all express our opinions without censure. Someone else reading these boards will get a variety of information that hopefully will be helpful in their own real estate transaction. The last thing I would want would be for someone to be hard nosed about possession in an area where holdover after closing is a common courtesy. Sure there are pitfalls, but I stand a chance of being hit by a car 6 days a week when I walk out to the end of my driveway and check my mail and it hasn't happened yet. But I protect myself, I don't stand in the middle of the road. So i hope buyers reading the boards understand that if it's common in your area to have a holdover period after closing, protect yourself. Have the buyer put funds in escrow to alleviate financial risks. But don't be paranoid that the sellers are trying to sneak something by on you. Protect yourself so that you have recourse in event that they do, but you can't live your lives afraid of the boogie man. The OP asked the seller for funds in escrow for her to stay past closing, the seller refused so the OP was protecting herself by saying "no money in escrow - no staying past closing".

I have a friend where the buyer wanted her out on closing day, was adamant about it. As a seller who had been burned by a previous buyer not showing up on closing day my friend said, okay, increase your earnest money amount and I'll be out on closing day. A paltry 3% earnest money is common in our area with low housing prices. $6,000 isn't a lot to tie up if the buyer walks, $12,000 would be. The buyer balked at this and my friend and the buyer agreed to possession 24 hours after closing. Sellers need to protect themselves too, what happens to them if the buyer doesn't show up at closing, what happens if there's a domino effect on the purchase of their new home?

It cuts both ways, some buyers get burned and want everything their way because of past experiences, some sellers get burned and want it their way because of past experiences. Learn, treat it as a business transaction, negotiate and compromise so that all parties are satisfied and no one leaves the transaction feeling like they got burned.

*I* couldn't handle it, and could any of you *women* honestly do ALL of this alone? The move to another city alone would be enough to put me over the edge.

Two words: military wives

Of course women can do this type of stuff alone. So can men :)

Sparksal, welcome to Minnesota! (another "neighbor") I agree with you 100% with all the issues you raised. Here's to getting everything fixed, a speedy closing, immediate occupancy, and last, but not least, enjoy your new home!

onourway2nc - thanks for your support. I agree it has been an informative thread and I hope it helps future buyers who are in similar situations.

I have had alot of hassles these last 6 months as well as when we bought our house in Tucson, again with my husband away. All the situations you posted were exactly what I have been trying to avoid. Add to it a physical disability and it makes the situation even more difficult.

pattycakes - Sparksals, I cannot tell you how much I sympathize with you! I know you were coming here to vent, and hoping for positive feedback, but the dragon has shown it's ugly head and *you're* being made to look like the bad guy. Why is it some people can't comprehend when someone has had enough and would like reassurance, comfort, concern, and throw in a little compassion, also? Instead, as if not emotional and frustrated enough, they feed into it, causing more anquish to a woman who is in the midst of tackling several projects alone. *I* couldn't handle it, and could any of you *women* honestly do ALL of this alone? The move to another city alone would be enough to put me over the edge.

Sparksals, you've said everything that needed to be said, and got varying opinions, some not exactly uplifting. You don't need this, honey. Go over to the home decorating forum where most of the time things are light and easy, and ask a decorating question. You need positive re-inforcement, not negative. The situation will work it's way out, maybe/maybe not to your liking. Accept whatever happens~everything happens for a reason, and there is always a lesson, sometimes you just have to look for it. ((Hugs))

Thanks Pattycakes. I know there are many women who deal with more on their own and have children. I have also been in the position of a military "wife" when my husband was in Iraq in 2003. That's not easy either. The difference was, I was only his girlfriend at the time and had no access to services, support from the military when he was there. I applaud military wives for what they go through. I've been there.

bethesdaman - you're very right, I did as "what say ye" which opened it up for varying opinions. No problem there. What is bothersome is the judgments, assumptions and downright nastiness in some posts. There is a way to convey an opinion without attacking someone.

Mary - I agree with you. There are many women who do this type of thing alone. However, that does not negate the frustration, feelings of lonliness, apprehension about moving to a new place where there are no friends/family. At least women with children have their company.

In 2000, after my divorce, I moved to Seoul, Korea myself to teach english. I quit my govt job, sold my house, put everything in storage. My parents thought I was nuts. I had recently gone through a divorce and wanted the opportunity for a fresh start, the opportunity to travel and to live in a foreign country.

I gladly accepted the pitfalls of adjusting to a foreign culture, language and loss of independence while I adjusted to living there. I travelled throughout Asia and Australia and had a fab experience. The best part of it is I met my husband there.

However, back then, I was physically strong. I did not have a bum hip that needed replacing as I do now. There are some days when I can hardly walk because of the pain and lack of mobility/rotation in my hip. Something as simple as vacuuming, sweeping or carrying a laundry basket for everyone else, is excrutiating for me. These are things my husband did before he went to the Academy. With the house for sale, I had to get up every morning and do everything, which put me in a great deal of pain and limited my ability to do much else.

No one person's situation is worse than the other. Everyone has their different levels of tolerance depending on their personal situation. While I do agree with you that many women do this all the time, I don't thing laughing or snorting at it is very helpful or kind.

annie - thank you very much!

manyhosta - that is exactly the situation. Since the seller didn't put the garage heat issue on the disclosure, my first reaction was what else did they exclude? They knew the garage heat wasn't operating. They hadn't used it in years, apparently, yet they listed it as a triple heated garage. If you list it as such, then that aspect of the home should be in working order.

I thought it would be fun to househunt and I actually joked with my husband that I get to pick the house. When we househunted together in Tucson before we found the house we eventually bought, there were many he liked that I hated and vice versa. There were issues he saw that I didn't notice. It was helpful to have the both of us looking and then to find one we BOTH liked.

Then, I come here househunting and I felt a huge sense of responsibility to ensure that I found one that suited both of us. Not only did I have to watch for what I would like, but for what is important to my husband as well. I had to double check issues that he may have pointed out that I wouldn't otherwise notice if he was here.

When my MIL was househunting after she sold her house in NJ, she found a few condos she liked. She went for 2nd looks on those and brought SIL or her sisters for their opinions. They pointed out issues she didn't consider or notice and that helped her scratch those off the list.

At least we're in the homestretch. My husband starts his drive here on Monday afternoon after his graduation that I won't be able to attend because I don't have anyone to look after the dogs. He will be staying with a friend in SC on Monday night, then driving on to MIL's in DC Tuesday, then back to NJ to pick up some stuff stored for him at a friend's house on Wed, then carrying on here. Hopefully he will be home by Friday or Saturday at the latest. So, at least there is finally an end in site.

Thanks for your support. You can bet your sweet pattootey that I will be dropping by in the spring for some clippings once I see what type of garden I have after the snow melts.

cordovamom - I agree with you. I guess I've been paranoid because I wasn't paranoid when we bought our Tucson house. We trusted the seller to do the right thing and we got screwed. The wife tried to absolve herself of responsibility because she wasn't occupying the home, however, her name was on the title, and as such, she was equally responsible. After going through all that, I'm just trying to ensure that doesn't happen again.

Had the seller put a considerable amount of money in escrow, I may have agreed to the hold over period. I offered the choice at the original counter of 24 hours with a legal document prepared by a lawyer of my choice paid by the seller or immediate occupancy. She refused, then countered with less holdover time. I kept countering the same. While I do understand she was burned in the past, so was I. She was doing what she thought was right to protect herself, just as I was trying to protect us.

She refused escrow money, but still wanted to stay in what would be MY house for free with myself and dh accepting all liability. What kind of compromise is that? What if we had to make an insurance claim? What if they injured themselves? What if the water heater blew or they damaged something? After the third or 4th counter of holdover time, I instructed my realtor to say firm and final - this was a deal breaker and then suddenly, the seller agreed to the immediate occupancy. Had the seller agreed to escrow money, the negotiations and my feelings about her would be entirely different.

jy-md - Two words: military wives

Been there, done that. I admire military wives. I met many with children at Ft. Campbell when we were stationed there. I often wondered how they do it, especially with children. It was hard enough on me when my dh was in Iraq, but I didn't have kids with whom to contend.

Having said that, please let's not turn this thread into one debating over what is more difficult for one group of people vs. the other.

Geez Mary, give me a break. Did I say 'Mary could't do it all alone?' Yippe for you, Guess you're a much stronger woman than *I* am. On second thought, maybe not~at the tender age of 27, I lost a husband in a car accident and 3 small children who lost a Daddy. But realistically, a move alone would be very difficult for me, personally. I get lost driving in strange cities, and my world is turned topsy-turvy. If I HAD to do it, i'm sure I could, but would rather not.

Thank you marys1000; my thoughts exactly.

patty_cakes, I thought you were moving alone to Texas, do I remember you incorrectly?? I thought you had adult kids there but you were doing the house search only for you.
Wouldn't be the first time I confused posters.

I have had alot of hassles these last 6 months as well as when we bought our house in Tucson, again with my husband away. All the situations you posted were exactly what I have been trying to avoid. Add to it a physical disability and it makes the situation even more difficult.

However, back then, I was physically strong. I did not have a bum hip that needed replacing as I do now. There are some days when I can hardly walk because of the pain and lack of mobility/rotation in my hip. Something as simple as vacuuming, sweeping or carrying a laundry basket for everyone else, is excrutiating for me. These are things my husband did before he went to the Academy. With the house for sale, I had to get up every morning and do everything, which put me in a great deal of pain and limited my ability to do much else.

I hear that! Selling the house has killed my back; I was glad it hasn't sold yet as moving twice would not do me any favors.

They do a lot of good things with hips these days, unlike back surgeries where everyone I've spoken to that's gone in is as bad or worst. I haven't met one person that's felt better after back surgery. Hopefully once you are settled you can take care of it.

AS it stands, the seller agreed to the fixes, most turned out to be minor repairs. In the garage, a GFI was tripped, once it was fixed, the electric in the garage works. They have signed the addendum and I just initialled the changes. The lender ordered the appraisal, so, it looks like the deal is a go.

Closing is Jan. 28 with immediate occupancy, no holdo-over.

Glad to hear things worked out. Any clue as to why it tripped in the 1st place? I'd imagine there is too much stuff on one breaker.

At least we're in the homestretch. My husband starts his drive here on Monday afternoon after his graduation that I won't be able to attend because I don't have anyone to look after the dogs. He will be staying with a friend in SC on Monday night, then driving on to MIL's in DC Tuesday, then back to NJ to pick up some stuff stored for him at a friend's house on Wed, then carrying on here. Hopefully he will be home by Friday or Saturday at the latest. So, at least there is finally an end in site.

It's all almost over. It's been a really long few months for you, I'm sure you miss your hubby and are looking forward to spending some quality time with him in your new house.

Congrats on finding "the one" so quickly.

sparksals, another welcome to MN to you! I usually only lurk on these boards but I just wanted to let you know that I've never heard of a seller staying in a home after closing. It's not customary to do that here at all. Of course you would never wish the seller any ill will, you merely want to purchase what the seller has represented to you in the first place. Good luck to you and happy gardening - spring will be here before you know it!!

Aw geez, do I need to defend myself TOO? Sparksals, i'm starting to understand your frustration! I have to agree~'the judgments, assumptions, and downright nastiness'
do not convey a positive approach of trying to help a fellow poster. She is already frustrated and needing a little sympathy and comaraderie. It's NOT about who could or couldn't sretch themselves to the limit. I was happy to read thigs got worked out and you'll be with DH soon. Your patience during this whole ordeal has been very admirable.

Cmarlin20, maybe it was *I* that confused you~that wouldn't be *my* first time either. LOL The accident was 38 yeaqrs ago, so yes, my children ARE all adults, and I will be moving alone. Making this move is nothing compared to what sparksals has gone thru, and I have had a lot of help from my ex(2nd husband), who I am on friendly terms with. It's an odd arrangement, but it works very well in the kids favor which is the main reason for the 'friendly fire'. ;o)

What is bothersome is the judgments, assumptions and downright nastiness in some posts. There is a way to convey an opinion without attacking someone.

I think you're right and the reason people may have reacted negatively to your post was because you called this seller a "dickhead" even while painting a picture of her that was sympathetic to some posters here.

I dealt with a true dickhead seller. He used all kinds of manipulative tactics to squeeze every dime out of us that he could (in a hot market). He played mind games at every turn, "lost" the certified check earnest money (10% of the house price, certified check is not customary because it is held in escrow and will clear before anything can happen but his ambulance chaser brother lawyer insisted) that then took a month to replace while entertaining other offers even after he accepted ours and in general was a complete horror to deal with up until the final moments of closing.

This seller isn't a dickhead. She's in a really bad spot, my guess that she didn't have the money to do the repairs is spot on and the repairs turned out to not be nearly as big a deal as you initially thought they were. As I said before, you had every right to stick to your guns, but there was no reason to be unkind toward this woman and I do believe that attitude is what some people reacted to. JMHO.

I have to admit that I haven't read all these posts well. But I'm also in the midst of a move in Minnesota so I want to commiserate with sparksal. I'm only moving across town, from a home to a condo, but I'm a single female w/o children and it is proving to be excruciatingly stressful. Every little detail has to be handled alone, and this can be both lonely and frustrating. Lst week it was the search for boxes; this week it is mortgage shopping. I also want to add that I am closing on my old home and my new condo back to back. I then move in the afternoon of the day I close, and the new buyers don't get to occupy until the following day at 3:00 pm. This seemed to be standard procedure when we made the agreement. How else would I close and then have the time to move if they got immediate occupancy?

"DIY electrical wiring attached to extension cords in the garage attic."

Okay, but that's an insult to the term "DIY". I do my own wiring when necessary and it is always at or above code. Then again, the only terms I can think of for the kind of wiring job you describe aren't politically correct.

What flummoxes me is than no one thought to flip the breaker on the garage electrical before everyone got all in a tizzy! That would have been almost anyone's first thought.

What flummoxes me is than no one thought to flip the breaker on the garage electrical before everyone got all in a tizzy! That would have been almost anyone's first thought.

Actually, it's what she thought it was.. read here (when she replied to me):

Posted by sparksals (My Page) on Thu, Jan 10, 08 at 10:13

As for your attic, the attic here is soley for insulation purposes. It looks like there is a bunch of extension cords wired to other outlets via the attic and they're all plugged into one box. The extension cords are the type that have multiple plugs on them, not power bars, but plugs. That could be the reason why the electrical in the garage doesn't work, simply because it's overloaded or a GFI is tripped b/c of it.

Sparksals, there is really good health care in the twin cities and I encourage you to get this checked out once you move. I am having a partial joint replacement in my left hand this coming Friday - had the same procedure on my right hand in June, and it has really made a huge difference in my life! My only regret was that I didn't have it sooner. Also consider checking out the Mayo Clinic in Rochester - which is where I had my surgery.

I'm another vote in favor of Mayo. It's only 1 hr or so from Rosemount and I'm still under treatment there, even though I now live farther away. You won't go wrong if you have medical work done there.

Good luck getting all this and yourselves settled. We're heading to the Twin Cities next weekend to visit some friends...and I hear the arctic chill will be in place by Friday night!

gweekie - Sparksal, welcome to Minnesota! (another "neighbor") I agree with you 100% with all the issues you raised. Here's to getting everything fixed, a speedy closing, immediate occupancy, and last, but not least, enjoy your new home!

Thank you so much and thanks for your personal email!

rose - I hear that! Selling the house has killed my back; I was glad it hasn't sold yet as moving twice would not do me any favors.

They do a lot of good things with hips these days, unlike back surgeries where everyone I've spoken to that's gone in is as bad or worst. I haven't met one person that's felt better after back surgery. Hopefully once you are settled you can take care of it.

I'm hoping the hip replacement fixes the problem with my back. The orthopod in Tucson, as well as my physiotherapist think that b/c my hip is so stubborn and doesn't want to rotate, that my lower spine is picking up the slack and that's why it hurts so much. I have also heard from others who had the exact same problem that their back issues completely disappeared after having the hip replacement.

Glad to hear things worked out. Any clue as to why it tripped in the 1st place? I'd imagine there is too much stuff on one breaker.

I imagine it was too much on the breaker. From the photos in the garage attic, the tonnes of extension cords and no junction box probably overloaded it.

It's all almost over. It's been a really long few months for you, I'm sure you miss your hubby and are looking forward to spending some quality time with him in your new house.

Yeah it has been a long haul and I've missed him alot. My BP has remained normal since I went on those meds. My doc in Tucson wants me to stay in them for a few months til things settle down and then get monitored to hopefully go off them once I find a doc here.

kjmn - sparksals, another welcome to MN to you! I usually only lurk on these boards but I just wanted to let you know that I've never heard of a seller staying in a home after closing. It's not customary to do that here at all. Of course you would never wish the seller any ill will, you merely want to purchase what the seller has represented to you in the first place. Good luck to you and happy gardening - spring will be here before you know it!!

Thanks KJ. I certainly don't wish the seller any ill will. She has just been extremely difficult and dramatic. All I wanted was to ensure that the seller has properly represented the home when the inspection determined things were not disclosed.

pattycakes - I guess we can't expect everything to be all ice cream and roses, eh? Honestly, I did expect dissenting opinions, because as was stated upthread, that is the joy of a free country with freedom of expression and opinions.

kgwlisa - I think you're right and the reason people may have reacted negatively to your post was because you called this seller a "dickhead" even while painting a picture of her that was sympathetic to some posters here.

Fair enough.

I dealt with a true dickhead seller. He used all kinds of manipulative tactics to squeeze every dime out of us that he could (in a hot market). He played mind games at every turn, "lost" the certified check earnest money (10% of the house price, certified check is not customary because it is held in escrow and will clear before anything can happen but his ambulance chaser brother lawyer insisted) that then took a month to replace while entertaining other offers even after he accepted ours and in general was a complete horror to deal with up until the final moments of closing.

That sounds horrible! I hope there were no unfortunate surprises after you closed on the home.

This seller isn't a dickhead. She's in a really bad spot, my guess that she didn't have the money to do the repairs is spot on and the repairs turned out to not be nearly as big a deal as you initially thought they were. As I said before, you had every right to stick to your guns, but there was no reason to be unkind toward this woman and I do believe that attitude is what some people reacted to. JMHO.

I totally understand she is in a bad spot. I've been in bad spots before, even with my most recent house sale in Tucson. Prices were dropping FAST. No lookers, lots of stress anticipating showings and nothing happening. Fear of losing a boatload of money that would put us in aposition of not being able to afford another home. Fear that we'd get a difficult buyer (we were very lucky, she is very nice and loves the house). Fear that something would be discovered at inspection that we didn't know about that could kill the deal. Fear that her financing would fall through.

But, with all that, I cooperated. I didn't have my realtor tell hers that I was in a tizzy and to not ask any questions. I disclosed everything honestly. I cooperated with the process and did not draw things out. I wanted my house sold in a difficult market.

I do understand she's going through a difficult time, but the least she could have done was been at least a little bit cooperative. I was patient yet frustrated and came here to vent. I was worried about the HI and that the home was not honestly represented. I honestly believe my feelings have been completely justified.

Luckily, it seems everything is going to work out. I have never had such a drawn out negotiation process before in my life.

marieta - it certainly is stressful. I can totally relate! Good luck in your closing and your new condo!

mfbenson - Okay, but that's an insult to the term "DIY". I do my own wiring when necessary and it is always at or above code. Then again, the only terms I can think of for the kind of wiring job you describe aren't politically correct.

Sorry, didn't mean to insult DIY for people who are absolutely capable of doing those projects. When it comes to DIY'ers who are in over their head, like I think this previous owner was, that is what I meant.

cearbhaill - What flummoxes me is than no one thought to flip the breaker on the garage electrical before everyone got all in a tizzy! That would have been almost anyone's first thought.

Rose is right. I think I used the wrong terminology. It was because of the overloaded circuits/plugs in the garage attic.

gweekie - Sparksals, there is really good health care in the twin cities and I encourage you to get this checked out once you move. I am having a partial joint replacement in my left hand this coming Friday - had the same procedure on my right hand in June, and it has really made a huge difference in my life! My only regret was that I didn't have it sooner. Also consider checking out the Mayo Clinic in Rochester - which is where I had my surgery.

good luck with your surgery gweekie! That's next on the list once we are settled - to find a GP and then an orthopod. This is one of the pains of moving to a new city. It took me over a year to find my GP in Tucson. Hope it doesn't take that long because I don't think I can tolerate waiting another year for this surgery.

kec - I've heard great things about the Mayo. I will definitely check it out.

It was in the 40's last week and dipping down to -2F midweek. My poor pups are going to be freezing again. Poor things.

Right now, I'm occupying myself tryign to figure out paint colours for the masterbedroom and kitchen. I was going to put new carpet in, but decided to hold off. I hoped to put it in prior to the move to make things easier, but as always with buying a house, that makes money a bit tight and with the weather, I don't want it ruined by the movers walking in and out, even if they can put down runners.

"It was in the 40's last week and dipping down to -2F midweek. My poor pups are going to be freezing again. Poor things."

Gack.

Bring them inside??

cearbhaill - I'm guessing her pups are inside, but still need to go out and do their business.

cearbhaill - Gack. Bring them inside??

What an interesting assumption.

lyfia - I'm guessing her pups are inside, but still need to go out and do their business.

you're right. They only go outside to do their thing. Unfortunately, my old rescue Shammy has taken a turn for the worse and I have to have him put to sleep. It can't wait til my dh gets home next week. He's had some brochial issues that were treated well with meds, but now it has suddenly progressed and he's not comfortable anymore. This has happened very fast, just over the weekend.