I'm sorry you are having this problem but I feel for whoever buys your house if they don't know about the neighbor.

It's a tough situation for you to be in!

Triciae wrote: Laura, was the biker neighbor a problem for the people who sold their home right across the street from you this spring ? If so, how did they mitigate it?

Tricia, they sold in late Spring 05. The neighbors got into the motorcycle thing (first pocket bikes then racing bikes) that summer (05). We were the next house to go on the market in April of 06.

In addition, while the house that sold is "close", it is not directly across the street even from me, more like two houses down, making it three houses down (1/3-1/2 acre lots) from the offensive neighbors. So while it still would have been bad, not *quite as bad as right next door.

In addition to all of the other stuff you're doing...might want to take some pictures of the "operating biker garage" in action. Taking pictures to the town offices "may" get somebody moving quicker. And, then...maybe not? It's a tough situation, for sure.

Is it really an operating garage...or, a bunch of guys with hobby bikes & they work on them together? If it's the later...may not be much the town can do. Do you know for sure that somebody's paying money for your neighbor to work on their bikes?

For instance, when my son was a teenager...half a dozen of his friends would come to our house on Saturday mornings to wash/wax their cars for Saturday night dates. I'd serve them munchies & lunch...nice group of guys. But, they did have their boom boxes on and there was laughing, joking, & general horsing around that teenage boys will do. Nothing abnoxious, no loud swearing, etc. Just a group of teenagers working on their cars.

If it's a "for money" repair service...that's normally not allowed in residential zoning as you know. But, if it's just for their entertainment...you're going to have problems getting them to stop, IMO.

Tricia

Maybe its time to roll with the punches... ask the bikers if any of them would like to buy your house.

I agree with you Laura that any 'disclosure' of these neighbors to potential buyers would be totally unnecessary. I would think it would be the responsibility of the buyer to conduct their own investigation of the neighborhood and/or discuss the HOA rules and enforcement with the Board, should they choose to.

It would be somewhat ludicrous to require sellers to disclose obnoxious neighbors.

I truly feel for you and your situation!

Kaleberg: And don't you have to disclose your history of neighbor problems to potential buyers?

Harrietthehomeowner: So you just want to dump this problem on some unsuspecting buyers? If someone does buy your house and finds the neighbors to be a nuisance or worse (what if this guy hurts or kills someone when he's shooting at stuff in his backyard?), they could possibly sue you for failing to disclose it.

You do not disclose relationships with neighbors. Period. Just because you do not get along with your neighbor doesn't mean I won't, and vice versa. Disclosures are for items related to the physical property.

Disclosure depends on state law. Laura has left a clear paper trail describing this total jerk of a neighbor. Depending on the law in VA, she may be required to disclose the fact that the neighbor has a history of unkempt lawns, yard junk, and unreasonable noise.

kaleberg, I'd be very interested to know what state requires disclosure of neighbor's habits (sex offenders possibly - if the seller knows of one), whether or not the seller gets along with their neighbor, etc., etc. Disclosures are for disclosing the condition of the property, not for how well/poorly the seller gets along with their neighbors.

In some states it's more than just condition.
Additional Disclosure Required of Home Sellers
RISMEDIA, Feb. 14 (KRT) Â Sellers of homes are often in for a shock when they find out California law requires them to disclose far more than just property defects. These days you even have to tell potential buyers how they can find out if registered sex offenders live nearby.
California has always been a leader among the states in passing "disclosure laws," requiring home sellers and Realtors to tell buyers of any problems with the home for sale.

The first major California disclosure law was passed in 1987. For the most part, it dealt with material defects: roof leaks, drainage problems, lead paint, plumbing and electrical problems. As of Jan. 1, some disclosure requirements have been modified and expanded.

"This new set of disclosures is really complex," said Carl Heffler of Tarbell Realtors, whose office is in Laguna Hills. "I don't think a lot of homeowners who want to sell have any idea of what is now required of them."

You have never sold a home here in California? Here is a glimpse at just some of the disclosure requirements you will face:
Sellers are required to tell buyers how to access the Department of Justice's Sex Offender Identification Line. This doesn't mean that the seller has to find out and disclose if registered sex offenders live nearby, just disclose how to find their location.

"This was a modification of Megan's Law (named for a young girl who was kidnapped and killed)," said June Barlow, vice president and general counsel for the California Association of Realtors. "The old disclosure language referenced a 900 number to call to get the information. This new disclosure requirement now gives the Web site released last year (www.meganslaw.ca.gov).

New legislation effective Jan. 1 requires the seller to disclose if local health officers are investigating the property for potential contamination from a methamphetamine laboratory.

You should tell the buyer about any neighborhood noise problems. Got a never-ending problem with a neighboring teenager blasting his stereo? Is there a nearby company that makes an awful noise each morning at 5? Any big noises nearby and you need to let the buyer know.

Is your home within a recognized earthquake or flood zone? Even if you've never had a problem, you have to list it.

Are you in a Mello-Roos district? Speak up. (This is a special tax district -- mostly for new homes built after 1982 -- which requires homeowners to pay special, additional taxes to support community facilities and services.)

Got window security bars on your house? Do they have a safety-release mechanism? Put it down.

If you have ever made an insurance claim on your home, the buyer must be told.

Was lead-based paint used in your home? Such paint -- when ingested -- can be a serious health hazard, especially to toddlers.

Have you or prior owners ever remodeled without pulling all necessary permits? Let the buyer know.
Did you ever have a pest-control company work on your home? List it, even if no damage was found.

Has your home been painted -- inside or out -- in the past year? Even if it was just spruced up, disclose it.

If you have drainage problems in your yard, you need to list them, even if they have no effect on the home itself.

Have you replaced your water heater with a new one? Jot it down.

Have you or a prior homeowner ever had a pet that did "its thing" inside the house and left a stain or odor? (Listing this is going to hit a tremendous number of homeowners.)
What boundaries, easements or encroachments are there on your property? Even if these are minimal and don't affect your home itself, you have to put them on the list.

Is there any pending action by your homeowners association, local government or any other entity that would affect your property? Coming assessments, an increase of fees, possible change of zoning classifications nearby? Even if you personally don't know about them, you had better find out.

Is your home in compliance with California law regarding smoke detectors? "The State Building Code mandates that all existing dwelling units have a smoke detector installed in a central location outside each sleeping area," according to the California Association of Realtors Web site. "In a two-story home with bedrooms on both floors, at least two smoke detectors would be required."

Another new requirement forces the seller to tell the buyer that a supplemental tax bill could be a possibility. Any time property changes hands, the assessor is supposed to revalue it. The way property values have greatly increased, it would be hard to imagine that the new owner wouldn't face higher property taxes than the seller was paying.

There are a few exceptions about who is required to disclose all this information. Among them are foreclosure sales, court-ordered transfers of property, inherited property, property transferred in a divorce or legal separation, transfer of a deed from one property owner to another and property transfers resulting from a failure to pay taxes.

"Sellers must disclose material defects relating to the value and desirability of the property," Barlow said. "Some of the (Realtors') forms help jog the memory of a homeowner who has lived in a property a long time and just may not recall the property's many problems. In addition, the disclosure laws have been modified many times over the years."

"This is going to hit a lot of nerves, the more people find out about all these requirements," Heffler said.

For official requirements, visit the California Department of Real Estate Web site at www.dre.ca.gov/disclosures.htm#_Toc122939746.

Copyright © 2006, The Orange County Register, Calif.
Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News.

At the last home we sold...we had an ongoing dispute with our neighbors about an oak tree that straddled our property lines. We disclosed that to the buyers. But, since that sorta involved the property...probably made a difference. Can't imagine that Laura would have to say she doesn't like the neighbors. That just doesn't pass the common sense test, IMO.

Read this re disclosure of obnoxious neighbors. You might have to disclose.

I read the link above and am somewhat confused - a nosey neighbor is different imo than a neighbor that repeatedly necessitates the police being called to intervene, no?

Having to disclosing obnoxious or slobbish neighbors or ones that stand around smoking and tinkering with their bikes just doesn't make sense. Do you have to disclose the alcoholic two doors down or the lady in the purple house that's having an affair with the mailman, too?-lol

Again, no one noted that disliking your neighbors or not getting along with them is a disclosure requirement.

berniek: As I stated in the post above you I thought disclosing a sexual offender (if the seller knows of one) may be necessary in some states. Apparently in CA you need to list how to find this information, not that there is an offender near-bye. I am not seeing where disclosing that you like/dislike your neighbor is something you need to disclose. Maybe you could highlight that for me?

Jerzeegirl, what state was the author of the article, CA? He on one hand states that someone needs to disclose their neighbor had the police called on them (uh, how could you know this?) and on the other hand states private nuisances are a private matter.

Property disclosures are for disclosing items of concern about the property. I would honestly think someone writing, My neighbor is lowlife scum would be actionable! Can you imagine? Like triciae pointed out, that just doesn't pass the common sense test!

Someone years ago (I don't recall who) in this forum wrote a scathing reply to a member when they indicated that someone should disclose their neighbors were loud (loud by whose standards? In the CA example, my son would never consider someone blasting a radio to be loud. Heâd lose his hearing before he felt it was loud enough to be a concern. ) The reply was hilarious and I wish I could recall it in entirety...but is basically said that a buyer should take responsibility and do some due diligence. The seller only needs to fill out what the state disclosure law requires. Many states still do not have disclosures, and some, like NY have a very low fine if you decide not to submit one ($500).

Caveat emptor

But now Iâm really curious what state is going to make disclosing neighbor behavior a requirement. I canât see that lasting long; heck, I barely know my neighborâs names!

"So you just want to dump this problem on some unsuspecting buyers? If someone does buy your house and finds the neighbors to be a nuisance or worse (what if this guy hurts or kills someone when he's shooting at stuff in his backyard?), they could possibly sue you for failing to disclose it"

OMG...if we all had to disclose information about our neighbors no one would ever sell or buy. There is no law (thank God) that says we have to disclose what stupidity our neighbors involved themselves in. What a moronic piece of advice. Civic minded...by Aunty Fanny!

You know what you're doing, Laura. Go for it and keep at it. Your neighbors are messing with the wrong Lady. I have the same problem Laura...across the street. A speculator bought the home and couldn't sell. Sooooooo, he decides to go Section 8. OMG...THEY and their home now stick out like a sore thumb in the middle of a nice and well kept block. All I can do is call the village when their grass is in violation of the village code. I can't do a damn thing about the giant Mugho Pine tree that is deader than a doornail and is now a skeleton. I'm praying for lightening to strike. No one can know what their neighbors may be like when they move into an existing home or build new. I'm not so hot on my new neighbors in my new home. Unfortunately, I can still move back to my OTHER home as that hasn't sold either.

I'm with you girlfriend! I will send you an email soon.

The whole point it depends on which state Laura is in. The law varies from state to state. So don't give legal advice when you do not know what the law is. Laura needs to consult her attorney and/or real estate agent to find out if disclosure is necessary.

paulines: noisy neighbors not nosey neighbors. God help us all if you need to disclosure nosey neighbors! They wouldn't be able to print the forms fast enough, lol!

Again, it depends on Virginia's disclosure laws. Laura, did you have to fill out a seller's disclosure? Anything about nuisances?

When I bought my house in NJ, the sellers had to disclose that the fire house whistle (one street over) went off everyday at 5 pm. Eventually they did away with the daily whistle, so when I sold, I didn't have to say a thing.

"berniek: As I stated in the post above you I thought disclosing a sexual offender (if the seller knows of one) may be necessary in some states. Apparently in CA you need to list how to find this information, not that there is an offender near-bye. I am not seeing where disclosing that you like/dislike your neighbor is something you need to disclose. Maybe you could highlight that for me?"
There are other reporting requirements besides physical property condition and sex offenders, that's all I wanted to point out. (see noisy neighbor etc.)
Different states have different disclosure requirements.

Oh jeepers, my eye doc appointment is next week - obviously not soon enough-lol

Jerzeegirl...Not giving legal advice. Also, you are right, I do not know Virginia's disclosure laws. In IL I do not have to disclose whatever my neighbors are up to,just the condition of my home. If a potential buyer wants to know they have to do all the legwork regarding the neighborhood and neighbors. But, that's the chance everyone takes when moving anywhere. You can move into a residential area and if someone with enough money can get zoning changed you could be next door to a strip mall. If someone asks me how are the neighbors, I say they are fine. Afterall, who I may not like doesn't mean they won't. I had a next door neighbor that NO ONE talked to except my husband and me. We all got along great. That neighbor is now my boss. If Laura's neighbor is breaking covenants and she does not have to disclose it by law, it is up to the new buyers to investigate covenant violators...if they can get that information.

Just my opinion.

Laura , just saw your thread sorry to hear about this, One thing you could do is the next time you know there might be an offer written at the house is go to a neighbors place on the street and wait to see if the bad neighbors are out in the street. If they are you could always approach them with some green $$$ and say can you please stay inside for an hour while I try and sell my house.

berniek, according to that article you posted the new regs take place 01/01/07. I really hope my house (in SoCal) sells before then! We already have a boatload of disclosure papers to initial/sign, and now there will be more, apparently.

The disclosures are mostly just forms with checkboxes (yes, no, not applicable, etc.) that are provided with the packet of papers from your listing realtor.

If you're doing FSBO, I guess you find out somehow which ones you need and can get them from somewhere ... ? Does a limited-service broker provide a seller with all the paperwork, or is that not part of the service?

The whole point it depends on which state Laura is in. The law varies from state to state. So don't give legal advice when you do not know what the law is. Laura needs to consult her attorney and/or real estate agent to find out if disclosure is necessary.

I think at this point people are curious if any state requires disclosing you do not get along (or that they are your BF) with your neighbor. Someone stated that this guy needs to be disclosed, and that is just not the case (maybe someone should not give legal advice stating this is required?). If you know of a state that requires disclosing that you do not like/do like your neighbors, it would be helpful if you could list that state and its form.

I do not believe anyone is giving legal advice, jerzeegirl. I believe people are stating what a disclosure involves, correcting some misconceptions, and truly curious as to whether or not any state requires you to disclose your feelings (positive or negative) about your neighbor. Just like all advice in this forum, you get what you pay for. :-)

In some quick reading about VA disclosure it seemed like a disclosure was not required. You could sell "as is". Needless to say the 19 question disclosure did not list anything about neighbors. The links I clicked may have been old. Laura, is anything in the VA disclosure that requires you to state whether or not you like your neighbors?

"Laura, is anything in the VA disclosure that requires you to state whether or not you like your neighbors?"
Like or dislike is not usually a criteria, however, what determines "criminal activity"? Does going against zoning codes, Covenants, local regulations, smoking/burning in public (???) or dumping polutants require disclosure?
I would say, if it's affecting you, it might affect the next owner and one should follow prudent local, legal statutes.
No seller wants to hear from a buyers attorney after closing that the seller or their agent should have informed the buyer of a neighborhood problem, especially when there has been a legal confrontation between neighbors. I'd say (as some attorneys probably would argue) that it is a material fact and has to be disclosed.

None of these posts has suggested you have to diclose your feelings about your neighbors! However, you might, depending on the severity of your state disclosure laws, have to disclose a history of excessive noise, junk cars or other debris, and anything that can affect the desireability of the property in general. Fortunately for Laura, VA appears to be a "caveat emptor" state with fairly loose disclosure laws. My own state is stricter, although not as strict as CA. The issue tends to crop up when you have a documented history of trouble - restraining orders against a neighbor or logged calls to the police, for example.

In our state, you must disclose noise which will affect the property. You don't have to make any judgement about the noise, but the buyer has a right to know if there is a source of noise which will be heard.

We disclosed the noise we heard coming onto our property and it was then up to the potential buyer to determine if it was a problem for them. We had a neighborhood clubhouse across the street and we had to state that the noise from the parties could be heard in the house. Apparently, it didn't bother our buyer, but they certainly could have come by at traditional party times to see how loud it was. Same with a float plane lake a few blocks away. You could hear the planes taking off. We had to disclose that.

Gloria

"If anyone has any advice for me besides "talk to your neighbors from h***" (believe me that will not work, they do not give a frick about anyone but themselves), PLEASE post it."

But apparently this approach worked (at least a little). You say that they did do some temporary cleaning up. I feel for your situation and if they are firing guns in a backyard they probably are flat-out crazy. And their yard maintenance (or lack thereof) is very strong evidence of selfishness and lack of respect for others. But if they responded to your requests in a postive manner once, I don't understand why you are so convinced that speaking to them won't work. I know you are pissed at them, but it seems like your frustration and anger is preventing you from acting in your best interest.

I'd consider telling them what happened, and asking if they can play ball with you. Someone mentioned that maybe when it gets cold they will have the bikes inside. I don't know if you are in a cold climate or not, but if you are the winter months should be a good equalizer - your neighbor's yard will look better relative to maintained yards during the winter months. Cut the price again and entertain any offers.

I am completely ignorant about what people are legally obligated to disclose the neighbors in general, but at this point common sense tells me you could be accused of concealing important information. You have created quite a paper trail for yourself directly linking deals falling through on your house due to the neighbors, impaired marketability, and a potentially dangerous, even deadly situation (guns being fired). In fact, one thing I have trouble understanding is why you are not more concerned about someone firing guns in their backyard. What if they kill someone?

If I bought your house and then discovered this thread I would be pretty P.O.'ed. If you can come to some agreement with them you can honestly disclose that there were some difficulties, but things sems better now. I think you need to do something about the HOA as well. Maybe they can't do that much, but they ought to be able to do SOMETHING. You have a pretty big problem and it's going to take some work

Well, Solie as always things seem more straightforward or "black and white" in cyberworld than in the real world.

The times that they "responded" were when the County got involved. Their cars were ticketed by the police, the Animal Warden came and investigated the complaints about too many dogs and the dogs running loose, the County office of Environmental Health cited them for their overgrown yard. I think one time when we had a showing scheduled and they had the "repair shop" going, my h went over and asked them to please wrap it up and they did. But these are all things they should not have been doing in the first place and THEY KNOW IT, just as they knew we were trying to sell our house for six months, but it is of no importance to them. Plus although the the source of the complaints to the County is guaranteed confidential, they "assumed" it was us (although I know for a fact that others complained as well) and we have been persona non grata to them since then. I seriously doubt that they would want to "help us" now.

The gun thing was a one time incident and I never said otherwise, he was supposedly firing at a snake. To me the significance was that he had a handgun at all. What did I say or not say here that led you to believe I was not concerned? No, I did not call the police that day even though my h urged me to do so, but OF COURSE I was concerned--I have two children! What would you have done in that situation?

Not sure what you mean by a paper trail, I have NEVER posted anything but a broad range location of my home (located in a county of over a million people, where over 7,000 homes are currently for sale) here on this Forum. More that one person has asked me to link to my listing and I declined since with the MLS #, one can easily find an address. I do not use my real name here either. If someone thinks they can identify my home (which BTW isn't even currently listed for sale so isn't online at the moment) by the information that I have given here, more power to them.

My h and I think that the best way to pursue this for now is through the local government and the HOA/management company. I'm sure our RE attorney will be able to give us additional advice as well.

Thanks to everyone (well, almost everyone) for taking the time to post.

I think Solie's onto something. You've tried "the stick" - several of them. Now what about "the carrot"?

Could you ask your agent to talk to the folks next door and offer them a considerable cash incentive (payable from proceeds at closing) to "take their business elsewhere" until the house is sold? I'm thinking something sizeable enough to have an impact - like $5-10,000. Figure out what they're costing you in terms of derailed sales and a lower price, and use that as your rationale... Have a lawyer write up an enforceable contract that spells out exactly what they will do to keep their home attractive.

I know the idea's offensive -- but it could be in your best interests.

ooh, I think you'd end up w/ fraud charges at that point, having actively interefered in that way w/ the buyer's investigation of his future home--especially to the tune of money!

I know if I found out that my seller had done that, I'd be talking to lawyers about civil suits for sure, and the D.A. about charges.

jerzeegirl" When I bought my house in NJ, the sellers had to disclose that the fire house whistle (one street over) went off everyday at 5 pm. Eventually they did away with the daily whistle, so when I sold, I didn't have to say a thing.

The law must have changed since then, because by law in NJ a seller is under no obligation to disclose anything...
Actually, there is more of an obligation on the part of the real estate agent to perform due diligence..or risk being liable for fraud......but anything other than the specifc property (eg fire house whistle, loser biker neighbors, etc) is not addressed.

You're talking to the wrong people. Taking legal action will not yield immediate result but only antagonize the guy. Speak to him directly and offer him a $50 if he can bring his operation inside when you call him. Remember to wear a happy face and don't act p.o'd.

logic: It was around 1991...there was a line on the sellers disclosure which said something like "is there any else you can think of that the buyers might like to know about regarding the neighborhood" and bless their hearts the sellers wrote in the fire station whistle. I am not sure if the word nuisance was used in the question. This was way before I got my license so I really didn't think anything of it at the time - and I really didn't mind the whistle (although the first time I heard it I nearly jumped out of my skin!)

Just wanted to wish you luck in resolving this situation as best as possible, as soon as possible!

Wish I could think of an easy solution for you.

Nat

I don't have any advice, just wanted to say I'm sorry you are having neighbor problems on top of trying to sell. So completely unfair.

I hope things turn around for you soon.

laura,

I've been searching for your name every week or so to see how things are going, still waiting to see your long-awaited "We've sold the house!" thread. I'm so disappointed to learn that you're still in the throes and woes of it, and now reading this thread, I'm heartsick for you. As if selling a home in a slow (worse than slow, I think you'd say) market and sitting on two mortgages isn't stressful enough, having to deal with unthinking, self-absorbed, sloppy neighbors is really just too, too much.

I do have one possible idea for you - it won't get rid of the neighbor problem, but perhaps it could lessen the impact - the "in your face-ness" of it - just a bit. What about investing a few thousand dollars or so planting some large evergreens just inside of your property line? If the trees are already in the five- to six-foot range, you would immediately create a privacy screen between you and them. It won't make them go away, but it will certainly help to eliminate the sight of them and their projects, and perhaps reduce the noise level slightly as well. Depending on the layout of your existing property and theirs, perhaps you could take it right down the line, right to the backyard as well. It won't erase the view from the deck, if your deck happens to be elevated quite a bit, but it should certainly serve to lessen the impact.

I mention this because we are in the process of planting 30 evergreens (smaller ones, about four to five feet high) between our new property and the property to one side of us. These new neighbors haven't even started building yet, but when we saw where the foundation stakes were placed, we were a bit shocked, to say the least. Based on their stakes, they're planning to build somewhat "on top" of us, which surprised us seeing as we have five acres, we elected to build back from the road closer to the tree line behind (we are on two acres of pasture with three wooded acres behind) and they have nearly seven acres, yet are planning to build up close to the road, and very near to our property line. Heaven knows why they would want to do that with all that acreage. We knew our only recourse was to put those trees up right on down the property line, from the road right back to the trees. We can't tell them what to do with their lot, it is their choice, (even if a sadly misguided one!) so we are doing the only thing we can do, which is to create a privacy barrier with those evergreens.

We're here in PA, and the tree cutting/planting time is quickly drawing to a close, but I imagine down in VA you might still have a few good weeks or more to work with. I've no doubt it might be a bitter pill to swallow, the thought of shelling out money on landscaping on your old home when you're sitting on two mortgages and no doubt have many landscaping plans for your new home, but the investment could pay off if it helps alleviate the neighbor negativity associated with your old home, and if it helps allow for a sale, could be money well spent in the end.

Just a thought. As always, keeping you in my thoughts and prayers - I've not forgotten you!

Cheers and Best of Luck,
fifidanon

Thanks so much everyone for your sympathies, commiseration, and advice. We will definitely be discussing all with our new Realtor and RE attorney.

Sweeby, you're right: The "carrot" idea is mega-offensive. PAYING someone to do what they should be doing in the first place, paying someone NOT to break covenants and ordinances??? It would just about kill my H to participate in something like that. BUT, we need to sell. It will be discussed. Talley Sue, I don't see how that could be fraud, we would not be covering up a material defect, only giving an incentive for what should be done (cleaning, mowing) or should NOT be done (conducting commerce on the front lawn) as a matter of course. I'm sure the RE attorney can advise as to the legalities.

Quirky, the $50 "bribe" might have worked when we lived there, but now that the house is vacant (lockbox), we don't receive advance notice of showings. The only reason we knew about the contract this weekend was that our listing had officially expired and our "ex" Realtors had to track us down 3,000 miles away to find out if they could still represent us.

Oh and I wanted to respond to something that Tricia asked which was do we know for sure that he isn't just working on the bikes for fun/as a hobby, is he actually accepting payment for the repairs. Did I see money changing hands? No, but a little sleuthing on the Internet reveals that he is the co-owner of a business that sells and repairs racing bikes, but no address/location given, just a phone number. Hmmmm.... Also, this is the neighbor that seven years ago when my husband was 600 miles away burying his Father (they knew this) and I was alone with a six year old and an eight year old during a huge winter storm, sent his oldest son over to ask if I would like them to shovel my driveway....for $35. Point being, he isn't the type of person that does ANYTHING for free.

And finally: Fifidanon, I really appreciate your positive words of encouragement and promise of prayers. We definitely need them. The tree idea is a good one and we will consider it. It wouldn't keep anyone from seeing their activities completely as you said, but it would help some.

And I'm sorry about the issues you're having, too--it's always something isn't it?? It sound like you and your H have taken definitive action already, though and that is a good thing!

Thanks again, all.

I got my idea from the movie Funny Farm with Chevy Chase. They bribed the whole town to act civilized!

Rent it... it will take your mind off stuff for a while and go grab some big leyland cypress before they're all gone.

Quirky wrote: Rent it... it will take your mind off stuff for a while and go grab some big leyland cypress before they're all gone.

Renting it is actually a possibility, I am not saying an absolute "no" to anything at this point! We even already have a potential renter (they have moved to the area but own a home in FL so don't want to buy) who loves it and keeps calling my ("ex") Realtor to see if we've changed our minds. She just called again this past Monday....

But we want to move on, if we're landlords, we will still have to deal with the NFH on some level, PLUS we need the $$ from the sale to put into our new home.

I think he meant the movie

If there is really a phone number and web site, do a reverse listing to see where the number is registered to and then report both to the county and the HOA

laura, just wanted to say that I'm so sorry for this terrible disappointment over losing a buyer due to your horrible ex-neighbor. I know how long you've waited to sell your house. That's just awful. I don't know how to solve the problem, but wanted to offer my sympathy.

Thanks again to everyone for the sympathy and support.

My H was at the house yesterday and he reported no sign of the NsFH, all was quiet, closed up, in order, he said it even looked like they were out of town. Although it doesn't excuse what they were doing last week at all, meaning of course they shouldn't have been doing it, and we will work to stop them for the future, etc., etc., I just can't believe the lousy timing of last Sunday. :(

Just a little vent, sorry!

I wonder if there's any way (just thinking off the top of my head) that your agent there could scout the neighborhood first, to see if those guys are out working on the bikes, before taking people over.

That might not be ethical, I don't know. Or do you have a lockbox on, so people are just showing up whenever, rather than having your agent let them in? It's really awful that you're having to deal with this.

Some people here have said they actually spruced up their yards when their neighbors put their house on the market. Now that's a good neighbor!

minet wrote: I wonder if there's any way (just thinking off the top of my head) that your agent there could scout the neighborhood first, to see if those guys are out working on the bikes, before taking people over.

In this area, the listing agent doesn't do the showings, it's the buyer's agent that brings his/her client through the house. Now that we have moved out, the house had (and will have again soon) a lockbox and the MLS listing says something like, "Home is vacant, show anytime." (Supposedly agents like this because they don't have to schedule appointments with the seller.)

I appreciate you thinking about possible solutions to this crummy this situation for me, though!

laura1202 wrote: "Renting it is actually a possibility, I am not saying an absolute "no" to anything at this point! We even already have a potential renter (they have moved to the area but own a home in FL so don't want to buy) who loves it and keeps calling my ("ex") Realtor to see if we've changed our minds. She just called again this past Monday...."

I wouldn't give these neighbors bribes in order to behave like they should in the first place, normal civilized human beings. Rent the house to someone in law enforcement. Explain what your doing and sweeten the deal by offering really low rent in exchange for part time "security" services. This way the realtor won't get in trouble.

laura1202 also wrote: he is the co-owner of a business that sells and repairs racing bikes...

Can you find out when he is going to be out of town? Perhaps you could ask your realtor to arrange a showing during this time. Or ask the health department to stop over.

I feel for you. I'd hate living next door to people like this.

I was perusing my kane county illinois codes and I came across this and thought of this post. Maybe your area has a similar ordinance you can trump up to solve your problems:

Codes:

(8) a. Notwithstanding any other provision of this code, to operate or permit operation of any sound amplification system in a vehicle or on property, or to perform lawn mowing or utilize power or nonpower tools, or to operate off road vehicles, including, but not limited to, off highway motorcycles, minibikes, all-terrain vehicles (ATVs), snowmobiles or other like or similar vehicles, on private property where the noise from such vehicle or activity is such as to unreasonably disturb, injure or endanger the comfort, repose, health, peace or safety of reasonable persons of ordinary sensitivity; and when after written or verbal warning from law enforcement personnel the owner or operator fails to cease and desist from such operation or activity. The terms "motorcycles", "off road motorcycles", and "all-terrain vehicles" shall have the same meaning as in the Illinois motor vehicle code. "Snowmobile" shall have the same meaning as in the snowmobile registration and safety act.

b. To make, continue, create or cause to be made or continued any loud or raucous noise.

c. To make, continue, create or cause to be made or continued any noise which is harsh, prolonged, unnatural, or unusual in time or place as to occasion unreasonable discomfort to any persons within the neighborhood from which the noise emanates or as to unreasonably interfere with the peace and comfort of neighbors or their guests or operators or customers in places of business, or as to detrimentally or adversely affect such residences or places of business.

d. Factors for determining whether a sound is unreasonably loud or raucous may include, but are not limited to, the following:

1. The proximity of the sound to sleeping facilities, whether residential or commercial;

2. The land use, nature and zoning of the area from which the sound emanates and the area where it is received or perceived;

3. The time of day the sound occurs;

4. The duration of the sound;

5. Whether the sound is recurrent, intermittent, or constant;

6. Any violation of section 12-602 of the Illinois motor vehicle code;

7. Removal or modification of adequate sound suppression equipment as set forth in section 4-1(E) of the snowmobile registration and safety act.

A link that might be useful.

How to get rid of a neighborhood nuisance

nuisanceabatement.bobbruss.com/nuisanceabatement/

klimkm wrote: I was perusing my kane county illinois codes and I came across this and thought of this post. Maybe your area has a similar ordinance you can trump up to solve your problems:

Thanks for posting that.
Fairfax County has no shortage of zoning ordinances. The problems seems to be getting someone to enforce them.

I had a message on my cell on Thursday from the investigator that was assigned to look into our complaint about the neighbors running a motorcycle repair business out of their home. To summarize the message, he seemed to be saying, "Well, I asked them if they were running a business and they said no". @@ Now honestly, did he really think they would tell the truth if he asked them point blank if they were in violation of a County ordinance??
I am going to call him back tomorrow since he did say "Let me know if you have any more information." I don't have a lot of faith in the County doing anything at this point though....

I also sent an email to the VP of our HOA management company (that was back on 11-6), no response. I will call there tomorrow as well.

Dreamgarden, I love Bob Bruss, I read his column in the Washington Post every Saturday.
But I can't imagine telling a potential buyer that I have the neighbors from h***, would any seller actually do that?
In VA, we are only required to disclose material defects of the property that is being sold.

Our new Realtor has some great ideas for making our house stand out from the rest of the inventory (TONS) on the market right now, so we're going to do most of the things he's suggesting. CHA CHING! but if it gets the house sold, it's worth it.

I don't know if this will help, but: when I lived in a condo, we had a neighbor (adult son of the owner) who sold drugs out of his condo all night long, with all the attendant noise, crazy people running all over the common area, etc. This guy's brain was so burned out that talking with him was impossible and the father (owner of the condo) would not respond to the HOA's letters, fines, liens, etc. Strangely, the police also were not responsive, despite the fact that tons of drugs were being sold every single day and night. Finally we got the help of our councilman, who put us in touch with an agency that suggested that we sue the owner in small claims court. Every man, woman and child who lived in the building complex could sue him for $5000 each, which is what we did. It took a lot of teamwork, but the guy had to pay up, pay all court costs and of course pay his own lawyer. He moved the next week.

I am sorry you are being put through this. Maybe your neighbor will go on vacation for few weeks and during that time you can sell your house. Good Luck

I've been following this with interest since the beginning. My sister and BIL spent this past weekend with us and were talking about a noisy neighbor that my nephew has. I remembered this thread and mentioned it. My BIL said that one of his brothers, a few years ago, was having problems with one of his neighbors and that the HOA didn't/wouldn't do a thing despite the fact that everyone on the court complained. It was almost if the HOA board felt if they ignored the problems and complaints that it would disappear and go away.

My BIL's brother and neighbors ended up suing the HOA and the board members and won. He didn't remember all the details but from the little he could remember the HOA in turn ended up suing and citing the pesky homeowner for everything and threatened to take the house away (altho I don't know how they could have done that) due to all the violations. Those people ended up selling and moving, much to the relieve of all the neighbors.

I sure hope that you get your home sold soon so that you can breath easier.

Jenna

>Dreamgarden, I love Bob Bruss, I read his column in the Washington Post every Saturday.
But I can't imagine telling a potential buyer that I have the neighbors from h***, would any seller actually do that?

I'd never suggest telling potential buyers about the problem next door, unless the law specifically required it. Was just trying to pass along some food for thought. It really is a shame that your HOA is so lax regarding such obvious breaches of the rules. Good reason to get out of that area. I hope your house sells soon so you can be done with this mess. At least you don't have to see these neighbors everyday anymore. That must be a relief in itself.