Living together in the same house but separate floor level is not unheard of. In a matter of fact, one of my friend was living in a similar arrangement until the divorce process was over.

Since your friend is in her 40's, she'd know enough what she's getting into. If not, you've heard of the phrase "love makes you blind". Don't you think that it would be of comfort for your friend to have someone like you when she could see again?

That however, doesn't mean that you have to approve of her relationship with a married man. If you two are great friends, you can tell her how you feel about that relationship and yet, still remain as friends. Later on, she may need someone to talk to and someone to remind her of things that she'd need to consider.

Hi again dotmom,

If your friend's new-found male friend has distanced himself as much as he claims from his former (but still officially "current") wife ...

... how comfortable would he be with having his current companion discuss the marital situation with the still-official (but not operational) spouse?

If they are beginning to make plans ... how comfortable may he be, I wonder, with his current situation of lacking employment?

How comfortable might your friend be with a possible prospect of being the main (or even sole) provider for their "family", should they form such.

Are there kids?

Does his new-found companion know them and could she discuss the marital situation with such kids, if they are at least partly grown? If she is anywhere near your contemporary, quite likely they've been grown and gone for years.

I feel that I can be friends with a woman ... with various women. I feel that I can go out with one or other of them for an activity which interests both of us, especially if of minimal interest to the person's spouse, or a dinner, without substantial interpersonal commitment.

If one ... or two or three ... or half a dozen are married, I do not see that such activity is something that will necessarily interfere with her/their loyalty to their husband(s) and her/their relationship to him/them, or mine to my partner, if I have one.

I've said that it is possible for a man and a woman to be close to best friends ... but when one or both has made commitments to a partner, it would need to be a trusting partner/partners to be willing to countenance such a situation without having bombs start going off in that partner/those partner(s)'s brain(s).

Human beings being such as they are ... it could well be that a relationship which started out in such a fashion could develop into something entirely different: which would violate one's commitment and primary loyalty to one's spouse (were it plural, would that be "spouses" - or "spice"?).

As for dating, that's a bit of a different story ... but these two have been seeing one another for what ...

... two weeks??

What level of attachment is she considering ... of intimacy?

When my ex-'s mother was an ex-, one of the problems that she had back in the '60s was that when someone was going out on a date, many would expect to become intimate after a couple of dates ... (or less)?

I don't make long-term plans with someone that I've been seeing for a couple of weeks.

And I don't go to bed (presumably for less than the usual complement of sleeping) in such situations, either.

As for my refusing to have further friendship with a person in a situation of which I didn't fully approve, I wouldn't feel that way, not at this point, at least: you've been friends for a long time, I assume from your story, and I doubt that it's your responsibility to be gatekeeper of her life ...

... how comfortable would you be with her setting herself up as gatekeeper of your life?? And cutting you off early in the game, unless you conformed to her standards?

If one of my friends is doing various things of which I don't fully approve, I feel that I can love the sinner without approving of the sin.

Actually, I think that I would find it easier to be friend of a bank robber than with the robber barons in a number of the very large banks that set up thousands (millions?) of nasty mortgages, causing untold trouble for thousands of families ... and felt that it was O.K. not only to expect a bailout in terms of billions or more from the government ...

... and then assume - indeed, demand! - that they receive a contractual bonus at year end, instead of being fired.

Shouldn't we be equally concnerned with public morality as we are with our individual moral standards?

[Down off of the soap-box, boy!].

ole joyfuelled

If you really are her friend, there should be no conditions placed on your friendship. You can agree to disagree and go on being friends. You had nothing to do with "setting them up". If she asks, tell her that you are not in favor of her relationship, as she could be deeply hurt, dating a married man and it's not something you would do. Best friends are hard to come by. Just my opinion.

Ok I have taken a few breaths. I love the line "love the sinner, not the sin" It is just perfect and gave me new perspective. And it is very true that best friends are hard to come by. Thanks for all of the feedback. I really needed to look at this differently.

If this were me I would not move on the man ( or Woman ) until they are free and clear of their spouse. I feel very strongly about marriage. You are only hearing one side of the story. That happens to be his. She would know I do not approve in any way.

Sorry to have identified you wrongly, summershine.

And to have assumed the possibility of some kids, when you'd said that there were none.

Trouble is - once one "Previews", one can't go back to check the original string.

Stick around - if she gets really serious about a guy that she's known for only a couple of weeks, especially with the credentials that this guy seems to sport ...

... she may need a shoulder on which to cry, before too long.

ole joyful

Are there so few prospects in your town that your friend really thinks this is her best option?
Stick with her, be her friend, she does and will need one.
Just pray he does not move from the wife's basement into your friend's home.
Also - As much as you care about your friend, it is her life don't spend a lot of your energy and angst on something you cannot change, just be there with the hanky.

I think the friend of yours needs to have a long talk with this so called "ex" wife to see if her side is the same as his because it rarely is and in most cases it is the first they hear of "the marriage is over". How many times have we heard that story! And the guy should have no problem at all with this scenario since as he says it is over between both of them....(if he protests well there is your answer)
She needs to make sure she is not dealing with a bunch of BS from this guy, because if she is she will be hurting badly and will need her good friend to help her through it.
Red flags are all over this relationship.

Trouble, nothing but trouble.

red flags all over.

He's trouble, no doubt about it. No money, no place to live, no job, sorta separated from his wife--he's in no position to take on a girlfriend. Is she one who likes to rescue people, animals? I think you should tell her once you think she is making a big mistake, and let it go. Don't give up the friendship, but I wouldn't listen to her talk about him and his troubles much either.

I've heard what I thought were some really good excuses for dating married men/women. I've even excused my friends and fallen for some of their excuses, but when I stop to think about it, and push comes to shove, there really is no good or acceptable excuse.

I do beleive in the "hate the sin, love the sinner" concept but you don't have to be good friends with someone who is having an ongoing affair. Codoning ongoing bad behavior by remaining on good terms is not necessarily being a good friend either. If they were a serial killer and were killing people, would you have to remain friends with them? Of course, everything is relative, and some things bother some people more than others. You need to do what you think is right without compromising your principals.

My husband once spoke up and told me he didn't want my friend and her married to someone else boyfriend in our house for a party (although he had a great excuse for still being officially married). I thought my husband was being judgemental and uncharitable, but after some deep thought, I agreed with him. I was allowing too much and accpeting too much because it was the easy way, and best for my friendship. Being a true friend may mean shutting a friend out so they know you are against what they are doing.

Bottom line, do what you think is best. I don't know if there is a right answer. It's nice to see someone who does know it's bad and is at least bothered by it. Many people I know have become so accepting of this kind of thing that they really don't seem to have a grip on the difference between right and wrong.

I have a cousin who just uses poor judgment when it comes to men. She is 63 now and I guess she will never change her ways. Several years ago she was having an affair with a married coworker. I got tired of her talking about him all the time. For the past 5 years she has been living with a guy who likes to improperly touch her women friends. When I finally complained to her about it, she got mad and I hardly ever hear from her. His actions have isolated her from her sister and other relatives.

I wonder if it's possible to still be friends but agree that this is one topic you can't talk to each other about?

Or are you doomed to always have that static-y feeling everytime you go to a movie together or do the other things that you do together?

I do know that trying to talk sense into her is the wrong move, because if this guy does get out of his house and marriage and he and your girlfriend embark on "happily ever after," you will be the one they both will consider the enemy.

I think you should be honest with her, tell her that the situation makes you very uncomfortable and worried about her, and that you know it is going to alter your relationship. One-on-one, reestablish your boundaries. If you agree not to offer advice to her about her relationship, remember that she probably won't want to hear about your's.

I'm only going to add a couple of quotes that I think might fit right in here.

"The Mind Justifies What the Heart Embraces"

and

"Sometimes being a friend means mastering the art of timing. There is a time for silence. A time to let go and allow people to hurl themselves into their own destiny. And a time to prepare to pick up the pieces when it's all over." ~*Gloria Naylor

Joyful pretty much covered it.

I can be "friends" with and friends with those who do things I don't approve of. If I held everyone I up to my standards I wouldn't have any friends.

She's having an affair. She's not out eating babies or torturing animals.

In the end they will be left to pick up the pieces or sleep in the bed they've made.

If you are her friend you will speak your mind once,then stay out of it and be ready to pick her up and offer your support when she falls.

Sounds like two broken people to me. He's no catch and she doesn't have a lot of faith in herself to deserve better.

What Wildchild said.

This situation is complicated and has red flags all over it. Let's say he gets a job, and then a divorce. How much of his pay will go the his former wife - maybe that's a reason for not getting a divorce.

If they were parting company on good terms with a no fault divorce, that could be low cost and executed right away, but that hasn't happened.

What is the reason for the divorce? He can't hold a job and she got tired of paying the bills?

A bad economy can make for strange house co-habitors. People do what they must to survive.

There are so many unanswered questions; I'd step aside and watch from the sidelines. I'd also voice (once) to my friend, warnings about my concerns and that I thought it is a bad idea. I'd acvise her to back off and wait a bit before jumping into this mess. If she is afraid that she would loose him to someone else, then he did not really "love" her in the first place. This is not a situation upon which to build a firm relationship. If he can't get his house in order (divorce), then she should step away. This has the markings of someone looking for a "mommy" to service his wants without any commitment on his part.

Tell her that another reason for waiting is that her presence as the new girlfriend will weaken his case during divorce procedings. It could go badly for him.

That said, you should retire from the situation and watch from the sidelines.

One of my cousins was in a situation like that once.

The guy told her he was just staying until his daughter was out of school....that came and went.

Later years we found out he and his "wife" attended the same church another cousin of mine went to. Both were very active and his wife didn't have a clue...she thought they had a good marriage. The cousin that went to church with her never said anything to her.. As far as I know he is still with his wife. Cousin number one finally got smart and got out.

I think most of them are just big liars. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. And I'd hang on to my heart until I saw the papers.

patti

"How much of his pay will go the his former wife - "

What century do you live in that you automatically assume an unemployed man will have to pay support to his wife? In the old days women didn't work and received alimony. No children so no child support.
FWIW - anyone declaring love after only two weeks is as much a red flag as anything...

Well I've been living with my husband for over a year while going through a divorce. Our marriage is over. We aren't a couple anymore. However, divorce is expensive and complicated, and the housing market makes it even more complicated (our area has few rentals appropriate for families since so many families are renting right now) so we haven't obtained separate living spaces yet. I've known a few other couples that were 'stuck' together for quite some time.

Honestly, if you are her 'best friend' and are so judgemental and so willing to end the friendship, I can see why she is probably desperate for companionship and you both might be better off if you ended the friendship.

Hmm, a married unemployed dude. Sounds like a winner! LOL

Look, one of the more tragic stories I hear is the one where children are banished from parents' lives because they do stupid stuff - like my niece who is 16 and pregnant so no one in the family will speak to her.

This fear of condoning through association is bunk imo.

Loving never hurt anyone, nor did it ever condone actions - it is silence and enablement that condones. Just be clear of your position, how it impacts you to watch this play out, and set boundaries if her complaints or issues start to irritate you.

I agree, she will need a shoulder to cry on -whether she wins this loser or loses him.

Another echo for what Wildchild said here.

I agree totally with what WildChild said.

I guess I'm not as understanding. I couldn't condone that type of behavior or be the shoulder to cry on. I'd probably say what I thought and let the chips fall as they may or drift apart. No one is perfect, but there are problems in life that people have just because of circumstances and then there are the problems they create. Your friend is creating a problem. I would not choose to be an enabler.

I think being a friend and being an enabler can be two different things. If I unfriended all my friends who do immoral things, I'd have no friends! :) In fact, I couldn't live with myself either.

I've learned to love the sinner hate the sin. Life is much simpler that way, and people feel safe to be close to me - someone was that way with me during a difficult time, and I've never forgotten it.

To remain a friend is not to enable. Unless you are helping her hide the affair, giving her opportunity and covering up for her you are not enabling.

If you don't approve of smoking and say so you can still be friends with someone. You just don't give them money for their habit or let them smoke in your space. That would be enabling. Has nothing to do with friendship.

I believe that supporting a relationship you know is wrong is enabling. The relationship with the married man is wrong. It makes the OP uncomfortable. How do you side step the issue of this guy when you're talking with this friend? The more she talks about him and the more you listen to how great he is, go to lunch with them, etc., the more the friend thinks it's acceptable to be in the relationship and at that point, you are enabling.

I don't think it is enabling if you voice your concerns. Your friend knows at that point that it makes you uncomfortable. As a friend, she'll either choose to be more discrete and not involve you, lie about it, or maybe she will realize that the relationship is wrong and end it. Or she may continue to discuss it and make you uncomfortable. You will still possibly lose your friend.

This might be a discussion of semantics - we may have more in common than otherwise.

I believe you can voice your concerns, and still be friends. My best friend had an affair, I voiced my concerns, the friendship I had with her didn't make me uncomfortable, but her situation of course did - she later ended it with him and we are still best friends.

I always enjoy the athleticism of some people gained by jumping to conclusions! Branding him a "loser" without any more info than he's unemployed. I guess I'll have to remember every time someone says they're out of a job here, to remind them that they're a "loser". And to be married and unemployed, sounds like we've had a few "winners" around here!

I agree with much of what Wildchild says, but obviously not all. And nycefarm and paula_pa really hit the nail on the head.

There are lines across which people cannot cross and be my friend so yes, I will put conditions on a friendship! You will not embezzle from me and remain my friend is one thing. You will not lie about me, damage my reputation and get me into trouble unjustly and remain my friend. There are certain things that are beyond acceptability. At the same time I can accept differences where it's not something major. Each person has their own level at which choose how major something is.

Why would the wife stay with him? Could be a lot of reasons. Could be she doesn't want a divorce. Could be that she believes in her wedding vows and takes them seriously. Not everyone finds divorce as fashionable as do some. Could be she's waiting for him to go back to work to try and get more in a settlement. Could be she knows nothing about it. Could be she's a nutcase. Could be a lot of reasons and without knowing more it's pretty arrogant to condemn either one of them. Do we even *know* there *is* a wife??? LOL

We don't even know if the guy is in agreement with the friend! I know how that goes from experience! A co-worker and I would get together quite often. We were good friends and nothing more. We shared a crazy work schedule and it wasn't compatible with other friends for various reasons so she'd get together, talk, go to flea markets, go out to eat, but certainly not a "date" by any means. It was clear I didn't want more with her, especially after getting to know her better. It didn't take long to figure out why she was divorced three times! Massive trouble handling money and other issues. But we were friends, would help each other out occasionally as friends do. But then the sideways comments about when we're getting married coming in from other co-workers and other friends. Well, she was telling them that we were getting married. Uh, not quite. So, it might be a good idea for some of you folks to remember what happens when you assume.

AFAIC, if the husband and wife are on the same page that it's over and is an issue of time, I have no problem with someone seeing someone else. If it's a platonic relationship anyway, which it could be - we do not know, I have no problem with that either.

I do think, as a friend, I would say something about how I feel about it, but especially on this topic, I'd give it some deep thought and decide if I'm a little too demanding. I realize there's many who subscribe to the if you an't say anything "nice"...

I'd advise you simply proceed with caution. Make your feelings known. But to cut off the relationship at this point could certainly hurt you a lot more than them. Especially if you don't know the facts. And maybe when you think about it, there's a way you can work this out in your own mind.

OJ, you can just open up a second window and switch back and forth when you need to reference something. I find it easier than scrolling up and down the page. Ctrl+alt+shift+N will duplicate the page, including the page history in Opera. And you can refresh the page and see if anything new has been added while you're typing if it should happen to get lengthy.

Cynic, obviously you're addressing me passively, but I'll go there. Of course I was addressing the cliche with the "What a catch - unemployed and married scenario" ...but of course you are correct in that I jumped to conclusions. There could be a million scenarios for this guy....

However, I am hard pressed to find any good reason to date a guy who still lives with his wife. Unless he's my own husband, whom I date reguarly! LOL

He mght be a real stand up dude fallen on some hard times. I hope all his friends haven't dumped him too. ;)

I wonder how the guy's wife feels about funding her still-legal-husband's "dates", him being unemployed & all.

Even if he's drawing unemployment compensation, that is not much $ & should be going to pay household expenses. So the wife would be in essence paying for him to play while she's busting her aqq working.

I agree with who ever said that your friend is lacking something in her life & has latched onto an empty package for fulfillment.

Whether or not I could continue the friendship would probably depend on how much she wanted to share her hollow "happiness" with me. She probably won't have near as much time for you anyway, so it might be a moot point right now. Later, she will need you again, would be my best guess.

Paula, I can understand your situation and that the economy can be a big factor. But would you agree to pay for your ex's fun with another woman if he couldn't spring for that type of "entertainment"?

I don't see where it was mentioned that this guy was spending money on this new woman. Personally, it might make my life easier if my husband found someone new. He might be in a much better mood if he, um, had a new friend to play with. My money might be money well spent.

Maybe the wife has a boyfriend???!!

It's just hard to say, if the man is not secretive, it may just be that it's easier for everyone to stay living in the same house. I'd really be concerned about the unemployed part! I'll have to say that when I first met my now husband, he was still living under the same roof with the woman he'd lived with for 12 years, they were a couple at one time but when I met him they were not. She was dating another man and he was still paying all her bills for her but they were not a couple and hadn't been for a couple years. She had no means of support so he just let her stay there until she finally met someone else and moved in with him and began mooching off someone new...HA! It's just hard to say because with today's economy and people just kind of doing whatever floats their boats these days, people do all sorts of strange things. I think if he's being secretive of their relationship then he's lying!

About the OP's comment of "I feel he is not hers to love.
What do you say?"

I agree that he is not her's to love. He still has the baggage of a wife. I'm not a fan of dating before a divorce is final and in this case not even filed. I know it's fairly common, but I think it is wrong. There is still business to be finished. That needs to be finished first. I believe that period of time could be better used for getting one's life in order. It bothers me to see people jump from one relationship to the next. The next marriage has being arranged before the old one is ended.

This particular marriage doesn't have kids so it isn't relevant. I always wonder who was taking care of the kids during this get to know you time. I know mine pretty much take up my full time when they aren't in school.

Wow!

Just look at all of the new facets showing up on this diamond, day by day!

ole joyful

It's not at all uncommon for one spouse (usually the husband) to move to the basement of the marital home during a divorce. I see it all the time in court.

A couple of minutes ago the Google ad accompanying this thread was, "Make Him Addicted to You" ...

... but now it's something about fences and decks ...

... so I guess that the Google ads aren't very constant, either.

Short-term commitment seems to be the tenor of our times.

As I've said before: fridges built 50 years ago lasted for 40 years, but ones built these days last for about 10 years.

And quite a few who've heard that story add, "If you're lucky".

ole joyfuelled