I know exactly what you're talking about, johnmari! We needed a couple of new gates and some fencing to keep our little dog in the yard. I had one fence guy come out, spend nearly 2 hours with me going over the details. He promised to get me an estimate, then never called, never faxed, never wrote. After leaving three different messages, I finally got a live person at the fence company. When I asked about our estimate, I was told that the other guy got busy with a different job that was worth about $100,000. This new guy did not offer to write up the estimate or anything, either. So -- my little fencing project was just not worth their time. I seriously considered sending them a bill for MY time at my hourly rate. Sheesh.

You have my sympathy. BTDT more times than I care to recall, and it still rankles. The ones who amaze me are the guys who will spend the time to come out to see the proposed project and never provide an estimate. Worse are the ones who do give an estimate, then never return calls to schedule the job.

A young out-of-work builder in our area has been posting job wanted ads. He'd do any kind of job, big or small, and actively solicited work such as installing low voltage landscape lighting and other typical DIY projects. I made arrangements to hire him for a day, at a fairly steep hourly rate, because we're overwhelmed. He then failed to return calls or emails, arrived late for work, took a lunch break 3X longer than he told me he'd take and was surprised when I didn't want him hanging around all evening to finish the list. It will take me at least an hour to repair the damage he did, and then I'll have to clean up after him.

At least in my case, I can do the remaining jobs. I'll just have to be patient and accept that it could be a couple of months before they're all done. Clearly your job isn't something y'all can easily take care of yourselves. Hope you can find someone reliable soon!

Oh baby! I understand it all, m'dear, having gone through it last year when we built a garage. Any contractor who failed to return my call within 72 hrs. was crossed off the list. End of story, and I told them so. Failure to produce a written estimate within an agreed upon time frame (I WROTE DOWN THE DUE DATE in front of them) removed them from the list of candidates, and I told them so. My father was and my brother IS a contractor, I know how it's supposed to work and I'm not completely unforgiving of unforeseen circumstances. I don't "do" bull--it, though.

No problem with site work (tree/stump removal and excavation), foundation work, framing. BIG trouble with wiring, as helpmeet was uncomfortable with my zero tolerance policy. Contractor was slow, inefficient, and returned calls when he felt like it. I was livid, but deferred to the helpmeet. I finally lowered the boom on the contractor when he put us fully 8 WEEKS behind schedule. His work was great, but getting him to work was impossible. I don't have time for "stupid" or "lazy". And I won't tolerate it. I fired the idiot, we finished the wiring ourselves and the insulation, heating ductwork, sheetrock followed in short order.

You're in a great position, actually, Mari. Times are gettin' lean for contractors. Use that to your advantage (negotiate the price dependent on adherence to your time frame!). I did! and "believe you me" the electrician has suffered mightily every time the subject of an electrician has come up in any conversation involving me. I'm more than forthcoming with my experience and the details of the time frame. Mr. Big Shot contractor blew it big time with us. We know a lot of people in our community and bad news travels fast.

Hang tough, and be tough. You will prevail!

Another voice to add to the general rant ---- when we have had work done here --- it was like pulling teeth to get people to call back and then they were late, answered their cell phone in front of me, were "shocked and surprised" when I asked for a written estimate and references ...... sheesh!

Awful!! -- and the only way that we actually GOT any work done was the days when my DH literally stood over them, smoked his pipe and asked many many questions .......

I think they just wear us down so we'll back off. And i'm ashamed to say, in my case, i do end up backing down. How many times can you call and cajole? How many times can you listen to one excuse after another? They bet on us "giving up," and in my case, i end up doing just that. I'm not proud of it. I'm just not good with confrontations.

Add me, too! We want to replace our furnace, have two windows replaced, get an estimate on some plumbing fixes and a lot of other 'need a professional' things.

So I went to one of the home shows and, being desperate for a call from ANYONE, signed up for their 'free drawings' just so I'd get on their telemarketing lists! I talked to several reps at length and told them I NEEDED them to call me and they assured me they would.

But NO furnace places or plumbers contacted me. Only one window place did, and when the guy came out to give an estimate, he got mad that we were only looking for two windows (I had said that to the gal who made the appointment) and then he quoted me $3000+ for two windows.

I did actually have a labor guy I found on CL...not for anything that would require a license, but he did lay a patio, set up a gazebo, stuff like that. He was always late to the job, but he did complete it to my satisfaction. He always cleaned up after himself, and made sure the site was immaculate. He smoked, but he even picked up his butts! Then he moved to Arizona. Grrrr.

I hear you too, Johnmari. Four years ago we contacted several cement companies to get an estimate to pour a pad for a shed we wanted to build. I think DH scared everyone off by telling them that he wanted them to (plan A) dig under all our fences, put forms down and pour cement in addition to the pad for the shed. I know that scared me-- I was afraid I was Plan B.

We had one guy that never showed up, one company called us 3 weeks later to schedule the work; we told they thank you very much for your inquity but we are still waiting on an estimate. We are still waiting LOL. Lowe's and HD never got back to us with an estimate for the materials needed to build the shed.

It's all good because we decided that adding a shed in our back yard wasn't what we needed. We needed a new house! We are currently in the process of getting that started and we aren't waiting for Lowe's or HD to get back to us on building prices either, ha, ha.

I think spring is a timeframe when many homeowners want to tackle remodeling projects so unfortunately, if you have a "small job" it's not too suprising you are getting this response. However, if you are flexible about the start date, you may be able to get a good contract at a decent price, if he can fit it in during a lull period.

sorry to hear johnmari - now I know why in Ct we pay throught the nose - but when we open our summer cottabe in Me it's a total different ballgame - thankfully I just deal w/very few
Hard to believe w/the economy the way it is that this behavior is going on - keep the faith, you need to be a "good finder" that I know you are

GL

I'm not sure I know anyone around here who doesn't have that problem. Been going on for a looong time, too. What really bugs me is that they're so picky about their own time and nickeling and diming us to death, but have absolutely no care or consideration for our time, money, or property.

And way too often they're just plain cocky and rude! I think they just hate working for and with homeowners/laypeople (esp women).

And, worse yet, often the quality of work we have to accept, also, isn't even professional.

I called the company that did our foundation for our house to ask for a reference for cement workers. They said they do cement work themselves now. So they route me to "Larry" and he says he'll call me Monday. That was Monday before last. So yesterday I call and speak to the owner and tell him the story and he says he'll have Larry call me. Still no Larry. I figure he's working on a job for a million dollars and doesn't have time for my $10,000 job. I know the owner of the company though will be very unhappy if I have to call him again. He's a real nice guy and when he did my foundation he was very professional, on time, etc.

We hate to have to call any outside contractor to do anything. The guy we trusted to do the painting on the inside of the new house did a half as_ job and when I tried to contact him to come back he just didn't respond. So I sent him an e-mail and very nicely told him that if he didn't get back to me after the kind and professional way we treated him, paying him when due, etc., than that was his decision and if that was the case I'd be very dissapointed.

I can't brow beat him, but I can never call him again. What a fool he is. He was going to have the job of repainting our current house when we put it up for sale and my DH would have sent lots of business his way. I truly believe he had a drug problem. Unfortunately, I find today that a lot of people either have drug or alchohol problems and that's why they can't hold a job and act responsibly. This guy gave me warning signs that he was a goof off, but I ignored them. My mistake.

Sometimes you just get so tired, you give in even when you know it's not 100% right. My DH does excellent work and never treats his customers or potential customers with anything but the utmost respect. Trying to find a professional like him is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. I know they are out there because we found one in the guy who framed and installed our siding. He was one in a million.

We're dealing with three contractor pools right now - roofing (recent tornado damage), landscaping, and painting.

We're in bid mode for roofers. One company, when I asked them to give me a bid, asked in turn, "How much is your insurance giving you?" I asked, "Why, does it matter? Are you going to change the price based on what I tell you?" Needless to say, we didn't go with them. Twice a company was supposed to start work, and twice they've canceled. Oh - and the bid range is amusing. From a low of $4,800 to a high of $27,900. For the exact same work, area, and brand of shingle.

Our painter was supposed to come a month ago. Apparently his wife went into labor, so he wanted to extend it by 4 days, no problem. 7 days later he returns my call and his grandmother has died (we've used him a few times and this is the third time his only living grandmother has died). He will need a week to attend the funeral and get back. Ok, my confidence is shaky but I will give him the benefit of the doubt... That was a week ago, and I've yet to hear back. So I guess it's time to find a new painter. Problem is, we've had him booked for so long that now everyone else we've called is booked out through summer. Argh!

The landscaper came out, we spent 2 hours going over what we wanted, and he was going to get back to us in a few days with a simulation of what his plans are, materials + labor breakouts, etc. That was about 3 weeks ago. No answers to voicemails or emails meanwhile. It wasn't their biggest job ever, but it would have included all the perimeter landscaping around a 32 ft deck, about 20 sqft in front of the house, 3 tiered walls, a paver patio, a poured patio, and a corner "island"... so not chump change, either.

Maybe it's me? I am starting to take it personally!! My money must have leprosy.

We've got the same problem here only it's magnified b/c of the demand following Hurricane Rita. When we had a full bath gut and remodel last year we finally went with someone who charged too much just b/c we at least believed he would do the work. And he did.

Some of our friends were not so lucky after the hurricane. They hired contractors, paid them partial payments and they skipped town w/o finishing AND took the money.

BTW, this attitude of not returning calls...this extends to others too -- painters, tile people, stone people -- heck, we're pulling our hair out trying to get PHYSICIANS to call us back w/ test results. Getting a response of any kind is now the exception, not the norm.

Susan ~

leahwalker, that's funny about the grandmother dying so many times. Poor darling.

That reminds me of my soon to be ex lawn maintenance guy. He's the nicest guy and cute as he can be, but the boy has more excuses, emergencies and tragedies than anyone I've ever known. Today, he gave me the "oh I went out of town and forgot." Excuse me, you've been cutting my lawn for 5 months and you "forgot" about me. Well, I can really understand that because he's so flakey. I don't know if or when he'll be coming over again, but I'm telling him that's the end of the line for him. I can't take one more excuse, one more I'm coming and then 2 hours later, there's a tragedy to handle.

We had an older man cutting our grass for many years and he was always here the same day every week without fail, unless of course the weather was rainy. He retired and I can't find anyone who I can depend on. The current guy is my forth since our reliable guy retired.

So my search is back on. I think I'll look for a new lawn guy the way I found my older reliable guy. He was unloading his lawn equipment at a job and I stopped and asked if he'd like another job and that was that. I'm not trusting another "young" guy. All the young ones I've had are flaky, unreliable or do a poor job. Sorry, don't mean to stereotype, but that's been my unfortunate experience with lawn maintenance guys.

Well we are on the other side of the fence as we are building contractors, and if you want to talk about people wasting someone's time..HELLO
of course after all these years we do sterio type the customer as much as customers sterio type contractors...we have to on this end too. It doesn't take long to figure out who truly wants a well done job, including materials used and those that just want the best for less regardless of references and experience. And one more thing.. customers can be just as shady as some bad contractors , I could tell you stories that would curl your hair on the types of scams homeowners try and pull. We've been in the business for over 30 years and there is little we haven't seen.

Oh man, what a great place for a rant. I know you've heard all this already so sorry, Mari (also anyone who reads the bathroom forum, hi brutuses!)

I think I have the contractor story to have you all beat. My whiny, wimpy, @sshole of a tile contractor. He started tiling our bathroom back in FEBRUARY but missed a bunch of days of work due to all kinds of crazy stuff. His truck doesn't start when it's damp out (electrical problem), other stuff came up etc. I was pretty patient though.

Then suddenly he disappeared for what turned out to be a month. It started as 2 weeks, stretched to 2.5 and then he stepped on a piece of metal and was out of work for 1.5 weeks (or so he said, I've heard so many excuses, I honestly don't believe him anymore).

Then what takes the cake is that he couldn't figure out how to do something (run the pattern of my tiled shower ceiling through a slightly uneven ridge). I asked the tile guys if what I wanted to do was unreasonable - all this guy did was whine (and when I say whine, I mean it - think insolent 10 year old voice on a 50+ year old man - not attractive) about how it couldn't be done. SO I get my 8 MONTH PREGNANT body up on a ladder to tile the part he couldn't figure out how to do. It took me a week to recover - my back hurts, my hips hurt, I could barely fit my big belly in front of me and still balance on the ladder, but I got it done. Then he comes back to finish and starts whining about other things too. I give him one solution. I give him two solutions. Finally I tell him to go to lunch while I get back up on the ladder and see what's up because I don't know how to tell him how to do his job.

He gets pissed off and packs up his stuff and storms out. Part of the problem is that DH, who is not very construction savvy at all, had paid him 90% of the job, so he was able to walk out without losing any money. I'm not sure what his deal was at the end except I think he was looking for an excuse to walk out because he felt he underbid the job. My GC (not really running the whole project, just doing everything that isn't a specialty and tying it all together) said he had been whining from the beginning that it was taking longer than expected.

This jerkbird even tried to tell me that it was MY fault he had taken so long to do the project. First he told me I "kept changing things." Those of you who know me know that I don't do squat in my house without drawing every last thing I want to do to make sure it works (I am an architect). I provided him with detailed elevation drawings of everything I wanted to do and did not once deviate from those drawings. It wasn't a matter of "oh, btw, I know you only quoted a running bond on the shower ceiling but could you do herringbone instead?" - that kind of stuff was spelled out explicitly from the beginning, and I told him so. According to my coworkers this is "classic" contractor speak for "blame the customer for your shortcomings." He didn't really have an answer for me when I told him he was full of crap.

I hope he at least had the decency to feel ashamed of himself that someone with 20 years supposed experience could not figure out something that a junior architect who has done exactly 1 tile job in her life could figure out and then execute while 8 months pregnant. We do a lot of high end residential work and if he had done a great job I would have gladly recommended him for other projects. Now i am telling everyone I can (including our friends at the building/planning dept) to stay away from this guy. Moron.

Rant over. :)

Oh I do feel your frustration! I cant imagine that these contractors do not need work. Thankfully, we never had that problem (yet.. lol) heard it many times before...
Hang in there, my fingers are crossed someone comes through for you, the job gets done and you are happy with them!
Ree

Another sympathetic ear here. We had a contractor walk off a deck/screened porch job years ago and it took us over a year to find another contractor to finish his 1/2 done job. What a nightmare! We found ourselves up on the unfinished porch roof trying to put down various materials to keep it water resistant until someone would come finish it.

I wanted to share an inspiring story, as well. A friend of mine retired from the Navy about 5 years ago and he told me he was going to start his own handyman business. Although he was a superb electrician (retired as a Senior Chief Electrician's Mate) I was a little worried that he was passing on better opportunities since he also had a college degree. What a fool I was! My friend, being the uber-responsible person he is, developed a thriving business because he was the only contractor in the area who actually showed up on time, worked hard all day, and got the job done right! Sometimes makes me wish that I had the handyman skills so I could do so well...

Thanks for commiserating, all.

"You're in a great position, actually, Mari. Times are gettin' lean for contractors."

See, that's what I would have thought, too, since building is pretty much at a standstill and people are putting off projects due to the crashing property values, but as I said I guess these folks must all be independently wealthy or something because they just don't seem to be interested in getting work. It's bizarre.

valinsv, that's exactly what we've been trying to do. Although it would delay a chunk of the fence installation we actually have all summer if need be - we can park on the street during the warmer months (one of the reasons why it sat so long on the market, no off-street parking, but the side yard became a rutted mudpit from parking on it all winter), and the shed company is super flexible since they're modular structures. I'm content to be an infill job as long as we have a contract. I even understand that the prices of asphalt and fuel are very volatile now so an estimate is only approximate. But it seems to me that it would be kind of a dumb thing to do to wait until, say, August to even start talking to people, and I started calling in April (we had to clear out the garage so contractors could see the structure to evaluate demolition, and we couldn't get at it until the snowpiles were gone)!

cindyxeus, so please tell us all: WHAT DO YOU FOLKS WANT FROM US? What are WE as homeowners doing wrong that so many in your industry just do not want to be bothered? I have worked hard to educate myself so I know what is involved with a project, know exactly what I want done (my goodness, you should see jaws drop when I say the word "geotextile" LOL), and so I won't make unreasonable demands. True, I do not want to be screwed over on the price (who does?), but I also have absolutely NO problem with paying well when it is merited. I'm a firm believer in "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours".

patser, my house is 107 years old. ;-) Sadly, my town is quite poor and historic preservation is very low on their priority list and the historical society is useless. I envy you folks who have such resources! City officials are not permitted by ordinance to recommend any private services; DH has tried to wheedle some info "unofficially" without success and he's a very good wheedler. I do wish we had the money for a major restoration of this old girl, since there are specialist companies that concentrate on that in the area, but they only do six-figure move-out-of-the-house-for-six-months sorts of projects.

learn_as_i_go, I keep telling my younger relatives that they really ought to go to vo-tech for plumbing, electrical, etc. because if they actually show up reliably and do a good job they will never lack for work at good rates.

I used to have a fabulous handyman about five years ago, but he fell off a roof and broke his neck - he wasn't paralyzed, but he retired to Florida on the insurance money. That sucked. :-(

johnmarie, I also feel your pain. I'm also appalled at the apathy of contractors. I get the feeling that theyre too busy making boocoo bucks on the BIG jobs to fool with piddly-little jobs. We havent done any major redos, but for small honey-do projects, its hard to find someone. I once called FOUR tree trimmers from the yellow pages, and NO ONE ever showed up to even look at the job!

I lucked out recently with a new decorator. I needed someone to help me pull my house back together after repainting all new colors. She told me "Ive got people". And man, does she have people! It was my first experience with people who actually call you and show up! She is part of a business networking group and they have regular meetings and trade business cards to pass out when they make referrals. She has a large notebook FULL of business cards from all types of work. Need a trim carpenterheres his business card. She personally vouches for any person she recommends. She pops her cell phone out, and gives the person a shout right at the moment we are discussing it. And then BOOM, very shortly someones at my door.

Its been an amazing experience this not feeling invisible anymore feeling. She (decorator) came over one day and handed me a business card for driveway sealing. A kind and gentle way of saying "you really should get your driveway sealed". Kinda like when someone offers you a breath mint, you reeeally should accept it! Lol. And in most cases, the people call me before I ever get around to calling them! Yep I know, its hard to believe. Yes, I think Ive died and gone to Heaven!! So far, she has recommended a window blind guy, custom wood-working guy (for an entertainment center), an asphalt sealing guy, and a hardscapes guy.

I found her thru an investment banker who was going thru a remodel. Can you ask around?? Ive found the best referrals are by word of mouth.

lisa, sorry, but when you start calling your tile guy names it cracks me up. I can just see him cowering in the corner as you B__tch slap him silly. LOL He sounds like someone who shouldn't even be calling himself a "tile" guy.

I am SO envious, kentucky7. Asking around has not yielded us anything, that was the first thing we tried - very few of the people in our neighborhood hire work out (this is what the RE agents euphemistically call a "transitional neighborhood") and I literally don't know anyone who has done any sort of house projects who didn't have some relative DIY it. I guess I hang out with the wrong kind of people, everyone we know is broke. :-) (We got a good tax refund this year thanks to the pre-move charitable donations, a nice check from our MSA, and then there are the Bush Bucks, otherwise we'd be too broke to do this too!) DH doesn't work in the kind of office where chitchat is encouraged. We've asked our real estate agent for referrals several times, and they were invariably among the people who couldn't be bothered to call us back, although she also recommended the home inspector who turned out to be a real effup who lost us several thousand dollars in things he really should have caught so...

You've come to the right place for sympathy! Right now I've got a mason outside preparing to put a stone veneer on the front of the house. He's done a great job so far in the back yard but now another job that he's lined up after us is putting pressure on him to start so he's picking up the pace on my job. I hired him based on referrals but now he tells me he's bringing in two other guys to help him speed this us so he can get done in a few day rather than a couple weeks. So who are these "helpers"? I'm paying top rate for his skill level and experience and now it's going to be shared with other guys I have no references for. Is my project in jeopardy now of being done sloppily because HE wants to move on? I get no break in price for him going at faster pace or for bringing him people I didn't initially agree to. I have to go by his word that they're good too.

Before we hired him I had the same experience with contractors not returning our call, or coming out to talk about the job and then never sending us a bid! They just decide they don't want to project but they're not man enough to let you know that so you wait and wait and wait.

Did I ever tell you I hired a guy once who disappeared for a MONTH while he concentrated on selling his house! My emails went unanswered, my project stalled for 4 weeks until he re-emerged one day with a happy-go-lucky email he sent out informing everyone that he had moved. No concern whatsoever that he left me in the lurch.
And they get away with it!

Yes, been there also. I don't understand how someone can come to my home, get all the information on the job I want done, take notes, measurements, and in all ways show that they are interested and want the job ... and then never mail an estimate. I thought maybe it was just me, but a couple weeks ago my son was also stood up by a plumber with whom he had an appointment set up to look at kitchen and bathroom jobs at his house. And now I read about all the problems here.
I've worked as a credit manager for an HVAC distributer for years and have come to the conclusion that a person may be the very best in his trade but if he has no business sense, he will not make it on his own. Many times I've seen new businesses fail because of lack of people and office skills. Most times they can not yet afford to have someone else handle the phone calls, set appointments, send out bills and handle all the paperwork, so they try to do it alone and so often just can't do it. I think it's sad because we obviously need good, skilled tradesmen.

Just as a coincidence when checking out the Kitchens forum this morning, I read a thread titled Contractors have feelings too. It linked to an interesting New York Times article titled 'Building Rage'. It gives a little insight to the other side of this coin.

cindyxeus, so please tell us all: WHAT DO YOU FOLKS WANT FROM US? What are WE as homeowners doing wrong that so many in your industry just do not want to be bothered?

Hi johnmari,

I can't speak for all contractors anymore than I can for all homeowners, both can be shady, to that there is no doubt. But I know what we do and what has kept us in high standards for 30 years.
A. We never take any money at all until the material is delivered, and the job has been started and all jobs are paid in 3rds.
1st at start of job, second at half way there, and third at completion of said job including removal of all debris caused by said job. We suggest homeowners go look at jobs we have done, talk to the distributorships, and other homeowners in jobs we have done. This is part of getting references.
Understand good workmanship is also part of using good materials. There is a major difference in materials used.
Do not expect a good contractor to be able to do your roof Just for an example) tomorrow when the roof was in need to be fixed yesterday. If one call can get a construction worker there in a day I'd be very leery of that persons work history. And do not expect an exact start date. It is nearly impossible. Weather changes effect timing, so do all those little Extras almost every single client asks for..this can hold up contractors from getting to their next job simply by trying to be accommodating to the homeowners they are at.
Don't ever think you beat up on a contractor for price, if you got the contractor down quite a bit they were over charging you to begin with. A reputable contractor will give you a set price and won't budge as the price was correct the first time.
Basically if you pay for a $5.00 hair cut you most likely will get a $5 haircut. Material cost money, labor costs, insurances, permits, etc. Look for a reasonable number by getting a few estimates but never tell the guy giving you one estimate what the other estimate was form the other guy.
Check out the vehicle when your getting that free estimate..if you see a Cadillac or Mercedes you have a high priced salesman, if you see a junker well enough said...LOL
How many employees will be on the job? Common sense says big job no employees is going to run into long periods before the job is done.
Is the person your signing the contract with going to be the person doing the work? How much is subcontracted out..who are the sub-contractors? ( example Sears,,run the other way kind of jobs)
Basically for the customer's benefit go with experience and references even if it means looking out of town for better workmanship.

cindyxeus, I appreciate your comments but it doesn't address the fact that so many contractors can't be bothered to return telephone calls, provide promised estimates, provide those references so we CAN go look at other projects that have been done, etc. right off the bat. That is my main frustration; I know how to behave once I've nailed down ;-) someone to actually do the work, but it's getting almost impossible to do that. What are we homeowners supposed to be doing to get these people to do these things in the first place?

The stump grinder showed up at oh-dark-thirty this morning - in the POURING rain, even though we were told last week that he couldn't work if it rained because the machine would bog down in the mud. Go figure. No one called me to let me know he was going to be here, so of course I'm standing there half-awake in my bathrobe with morning breath and my hair in a rat's nest. I'm still waiting for a revised bill from that company to reflect the pruning work that was not done, but I'll bet the bill for the grinding will be mailed out first thing Monday morning!

The single aforementioned demo/excavating/paving contractor who has stepped up to the plate as far as following up would be coming in from an hour away. (He had a pickup truck in good condition but not new and not fancy. ;-)) Two of the ones who came to the house have dropped out of sight and aren't answering their phone or emails, and the last remaining one promised me his estimate on Monday and again on Wednesday morning (after viewing the jobsite on previous week) and I'm still waiting. So he's a writeoff as well IMO.

At the risk of offending, I'll put a different spin on things.

Original poster is (I assume) a woman. MOST contractors are, men. Stinky, smelly, men.

Stinky, smelly men deal best with, stinky, smelly men.

When you call a contractor, do it with some sort of authority. Try and get contractors through friends or reputable stores where you shop. This will allow you to put pressure on rude contractors if something goes wrong, you can always go to the store and complain that things are not going well.

Set a time when you would like to have a return phone call. If this does not happen, keep looking. To me, not getting a return phone call is completely unacceptable, and indicates that contractor is probably not going to work. When I don't get a call back when dealing with a major company, look out. I'll go the company president in a heart beat. I simply won't take bad service. (Pella windows lost my business because sales person left town, didn't tell me, and I REALLY got *&^%ed).

Deal with management when possible after a bad experience.

Ive hears lots of positive things about "Annies List". You pay for the service, but it seems worth it.

SG

My husband knows if he will take a job from the first call he gets. He tells the customer right then and there he is or he is not available for the job. If he agrees to the job, he makes an appt. to go give an estimate. He calls the night before to verify he is coming the next day. He goes out, talks to client, takes measurements, comes home, types up estimate, then calls customer back with dollar figure and discusses the specifics of the charges. Then he mails or brings the estimate to the customer if they are still interested in having him do the job. He tells them to call him when they are ready and he'll put them on his schedule. Most call back, but he's had a couple who just wanted his free written estimate.

If they call back to schedule, he gives them a date or approximate date he can start the job. He calls them the night before to let them know he's coming the next day. If there's a delay due to another job, he calls a week in advance or whenever he learns of the delay.

He completes a job usually within the time specified, but if he goes over and it's no fault of the job, he doesn't charge the customer extra. He never works more than one job at a time unless one of his regulars has an emergency that calls him away for a day. He and his helper clean up after themselves everyday so the customer doesn't have to live in dirt while the job is taking place.

Geez, after reading this is there any wonder why he's had some of his customers for the last 20 years? Now why can't all contractors be like this? It's not difficult to be organized and responsible.

Speaking of which, my lame brain lawn guy called yesterday and said he'd be out today. Yea, I'm holding my breath!! I'm going to call him later and ask him if the grass needs to start hitting my butt before he's going to get over to cut it. Then after he laughs I'm going to tell him he can either cut my grass when it's convenient for me or I'll find someone else. I keep my gates locked because of the animals in the yard and I can't leave it unlocked for fear someone will just come along and open it. So I have to be home when he comes to cut the grass. Can't tell you how many appointments and schedules I've changed to suit his excuses. I've had way too much of this young man's excuses. He's nice so I let him slide, but now it's getting ridiculous. All DH says is "I hate that little
???" LOL

Well, Johnmari, I hear you loud and clear having suffered in the past. If a contractor does not come up with an estimate, plan and timeline and refuse to answer phonecalls, they do not want the job

The truth is that what we generally want are "small" jobs, though they might have seemed major $$$ to us. Contractors will ditch small jobs for the big money. And I sort of understand that. They have to make a living too. But they should tell us up-front if that is the case.

The only thing to do is to get really good recommendations from locals to local *need personal recommendations* and love-the-locals-type contractors.

We have just had a local contractor redo our driveway. A 2 day project that turned week long due to delays by weather and the fact that they were also doing 3 other "small" jobs in the area.

They threw in some free landscaping because we were flexible and appreciative of the (real) issues they were facing.

So, I can't complain. We gave them until the end of May to complete. And they are almost done!

People in the construction business have a higher incidence of substance abuse problems than do the general population. This is because the job allows some flexibility when they need a few days off to recover from a bender (or go on a bender). If a schoolteacher regularly misses a few days here and there, he won't last long on the job. But a carpenter or a painter or a tile guy can just show up when he's sober again and finish the job.

That's not to say that ALL tradespeople are addicts or drunks. Hardly. But the trades do attract those with problems staying clean and sober.

I have an excellent plumber whom we've used for years. I think I got his name from a real estate agent but it was so long ago that I can't remember. Anyway, he has given me several good referrals that have worked out well over the years.

My other source is the neighborhood directory. We belong to a rather powerful homeowners association, which I know is anathema to a lot of people, but ours has been very helpful. They recommended a wonderful house painter who in turn recommended a wonderful carpenter when we needed 18 windows installed.

We were not so lucky with a roofer that was on their list, though. He did the work but wasn't very pleasant to deal with and now it's three years later and there are two leaks in the new roof! Of course, he was paid in full so has no interest in coming back to do anything about it. And apparently he doesn't care about his reputation. I informed the HOA about him and they removed him from the directory. I'll also be updating my Insiderpages.com review. Those things get linked to a LOT from other sites. Heh.

Angie's List is a lovely service but if you are outside a major metropolitan area you're pretty much SOL.

I'm sorry, but I had to laugh at "stinky, smelly men deal best with stinky, smelly men." I guess I need a sex change and no more baths, because getting this all set up is my problem! All my DH does with this sort of thing is provide the funding and the occasional opinion: he doesn't have the time, energy, or (honestly) interest in all the minute details involved, and if you knew the demands on his time you'd understand why. If I had him doing this he'd be nodding happily away while a contractor told him they could build a great driveway with an inch of asphalt over loam, and all for 5x what a properly done project would go for! LOL The one time HE hired a contractor it was a complete and total disaster; a carpenter who ruined several hundred dollars' worth of oak moldings and then attempted to put a lien on US because we refused to pay him for the rest of the job (which didn't even cover replacing said moldings and having someone else install them). I have been attempting to strike a balance between politeness and firmness, I can be uber-b*tch when necessary ;-) but I don't consider that the appropriate way to start out a working relationship - save it for later if butts need kicking!

brutuses, what should someone tell the contractor when you're going to be getting multiple estimates on a project (which is what everyone and his cousin tells you to do), if it's going to delay your decision a bit while you wait for the other contractors to do their thing? Little white lies? (You are a lot more patient with this lawnmowing - or not - punk than I am though... wow.)

I've been self employed for the past 18 years (not a contractor). I always call people back the same day they leave me a message, usually within 30 minutes or less. I update my voice mail message daily along with the current date, just to keep people informed. I make it a point to do this even if I know I have no way of doing business with the person. I can't tell you how many people are completely surprised that I #1 update my phone daily and #2 have called them so quickly.

I really do believe that the majority of people do not demand good service for their hard earned $ and they expect bad service. The problem is, people accept it, which makes the situation worse.

Numerous times I have contacted the president of a major corporation when things have not gone well and I am getting nowhere with an issue. After only a few minutes of dealing with peons, I ask for the corporate office number. Heaven help the person who tells me there is none or they are not allowed to give it out. I take names, phone extensions, the works. Then all hell breaks loose, and I always get what I paid for. Lots of times, I get more in the form of rebates or refunds.

Getting a return phone call from someone I'm doing business with is my biggest peeve. What is the big deal about picking up the &^%$in phone and calling someone? If you don't want to do it, don't be in business.

I constantly see people accepting inferior service from all types of businesses. This does not make sense. These businesses know they can get away with it, and they are.

SG

I have so many stories of contractors not showing up, not sticking to the plan, getting mad enough if I DARE question their methods or "expertise" that they LITERALLY never come back!

One guy tiling our backsplash insisted, as he put the last piece up, that the tile store lied to me about the grey stone changing color when it was sealed. The sample I had seen at the store was brown, and they had said it was after it was sealed. He said "I've been doing this 20 years, and in my experience, tile never changes color when sealed" and he proceeded to take some of HIS sealer and show me. Sure enough, it didn't change color. He didn't say anything about any other products that could be used, but just insisted that they sold me the wrong tile or lied to me.

I was mad -- at the store -- and realized if the tile wasn't going to change to brown, it really didn't match AT ALL. He agreed and said, very helpfully... "You need to work this out with the store (which was now closed for the day) and exchange this tile , but since this won't match, I'll need to take it all down TODAY before it totally sets. No problem... I'll take it all back down for you."

How nice of him.

He takes down the entire back wall of tile, which took him all day to do, and where we had painstakingly picked the perfect tiles for the perfect spots, and I now have cut, messy tile laying on my DR floor. Next day,I walk in the store, tell them of my complaint. They take one piece of my tile, use THEIR sealer (w/ enhancer!!!) and LOW AND BEHOLD... my tile turns brown. You would think that a tile guy, been in business 20 years, would think about a sealer/enhancer doing the trick.

I called him back, very nicely, and said, "Hey, we were both wrong... the store was right. I bought their sealer, and it will indeed turn to brown! All we need to do it put all this back up." Not a problem, he said, I'll be out tomorrow!

Guess what... he never came. And so I called. He said he got caught up, and he'd call me later. Next day, not a word. I called again. Left message. Still tripping over tile. Waiting for the final part of my shiny new kitchen to be done... I'm DYING to be done!! Still nothing. Next day, I called again. His wife answered. "Yeah," she said, "He's not really interested in doing the job now. He knows he should, but he really can't". Ummm... I'm tripping over tile that is already cut, the wall's a mess, and the ONLY reason it all had to come down is because he convinced me that the store was full of cr**, that they sold me the wrong tile, that no sealer exists that would do the job I needed, and that I had to take this down asap! I would think that he would at least help me -- literally -- pick up the pieces of this fiasco! I told his wife I wasn't mad, I hope he wasn't not coming because he had given me wrong info, that it was a misunderstanding, that all he had to do was complete the job and that I'd handle the sealing. "Yeah, well, I'll have him call you."

Nope, never called. Had to shop around for someone who could finish someone else's work, and many refused to do it. I finally found someone willing to guarantee what someone else had started. What made me so mad (and gun-shy about trusting anyone else) was that he was so nice and understanding about all my other contractor woes I told him about. He had actually said on his first (and only) day, "Well, I treat people the way I like to be treated; I can't stand contractors that don't treat their customers right" and then he leaves me hanging and can't even get on the phone!!!

BTW, if no one believes me, here is a picture of the backsplash with some unsealed tiles in front. Four years later, and the tile is still brown!! :)

johnmari, it's always best to be honest. When I have to get more than one bid on a job (no, my husband doesn't cut down trees do cement or brick work LOL), I tell them I'm getting a couple of different bids so I can make an informed decision. I just had to call out some brick guys for estimates and they both knew they were not the only one I called. Both were fine with that. When I made my decision between the two of them, I called both to let them know who I had chosen.

If someone tells my husband they are going to need time to make a decision he tells them that's fine, but not to wait till the last minute of when they want the job completed to call back because he has a full calender and they'll need to be put on the schedule to get their job done in a timely manner.

My lawn guy doesn't have a clue. I called him this morning and he told me he'd be out Wednesday and I said I think you're having a problem with cutting my grass. His response, oh no I like cutting your grass. You're one of my best cutomers. I said well what's with the million and one delays and excuses and then he said well things happen and I say, all of "that" just doesn't happen to one person.

Anyway, he's coming out Wednesday and I'm going to tell him I won't accept any more excuses or cancellations over trivial crap anymore and if he can't cut my grass when he's scheduled to then we're done. Like I said previously, he's a nice guy, but a lame brain. LOL

One more thing, I have a problem with that smelly, stinky guy talking to smelly, stinky guy comment. Most of my husbands customers are the "wives." They make the decisions and he's fine with that. He doesn't mine dealing with men or women. His only requirement is they know what they want and don't waste his time saying "oh, I don't know" a million and one times. HA! His other main complaint is people who want him to do a substandard job with substandard materials, to save themselves money. He refuses to complete a job "half a__" or use cheap materials. One example is the only brand paint he will use is Benjamin Moore. He knows applying it will save him and the customer time and money and he knows the product will last.

To all contractors and customers who are wasting time trying to get around, over, etc. on each other. You're wasting time and getting yourself nowhere. Being honest and to the point saves time and money.

Most contractors are trying to get rich and stay that way. My DH is not one of those. He and my nephew are the crew. Each job is handled like it's his house he's working on. Each customer is important and gets 100% of his time and attention when he is working for them. He makes a very good living doing thigs this way for the last 25 years. For a while after Katrina my DH was so busy he had to turn down jobs, but his motto is quality, not quantity. For the customers who waited a year for him, they were glad they did as they heard horror story afer horror story about the people who were impatient and got "messed over" by crooks out to make a quick buck. My own sister was one of them.

Johnmari,

You are in the Rochester, NH area? Just so you know, there is no licensing in NH. The only ones that will be licensed are guys who are originally from Mass or elswwhere.

What type of contractors are you calling? The type of work you are talking about is not really contractor work. It's excavation. You need demo, dumpster, excavation, gravel pad and asphalt driveway. That is work for an excavation sub, not a contractor.

I have someone that does excavation work for me (I'm near Portsmouth). If you want, I can see if he is interested. He'd sub out the paving, of course (anyone would have to). Is there space for a dumpster off street? If not, is one allowed onstreet?

[brutuses] "When I have to get more than one bid on a job [...] I tell them I'm getting a couple of different bids so I can make an informed decision."

That's what I'd been doing, but I was wondering if that was why most of the people I've had out for bids didn't follow up, they didn't think I was serious because I was talking to other people as well.

If it's not a big enough job to be worth someone's time I wish they'd just say so right up front rather than leaving me hanging in midair.

Brutuses: >

AMEN!! I always say (and so do my neighbors), if ONE of us could find a great contractor who is honest and prompt, we'd keep him busy... and rich ... for years to come! We all have projects, and word of mouth can be the best thing for the good contractors!

Because of my bad experiences, I'm wary to hire anyone, and I just decide to not do even small jobs because it's not worth the hassle.

BTW, thanks to johnmari who started this thread... it's nice to vent, isn't it? ;)

johmari, I'm having that very same problem (job not big enough) right now with a cement company. They are the company who installed our pilings and foundation for our home so we called them back when we learned they also are now doing cement work. I called two weeks ago and they transferred me to Larry, the guy in cement dept. It was a Thursday and he said he'd call me back Monday to schedule something next week. Week went by, no call. So I waited till the next week and called back. Larry wasn't there, so they routed my call to the owner. I explained who I was (past customer) and what I wanted and that Larry never called me back. OK, he says "I'm so sorry, I'll have Larry call you."

Now I'm going to call back one more time, but this time I'm going to let the owner know my time is as valuable as his and Larry's and I don't want them wasting it. They'll most probably rush out to bury me in the cement. LOL