Off topic - do you go to overclockers forum? There's someone there with the same name as you IIRC

roselvr,
No, I'm not familiar with overclockers. But NJ Tomatoes are wonderful!!! Plus, I've found that this username is rarely already taken.

Personally, I think you would be wasting your time with that offer for two separate reasons - the amount and the contingency on selling your house. In my opinion, an offer that doesn't even crack the 400,000 mark probably won't be given serious consideration.

I'd say you have nothing to loose but time. I do think if you want to try a low ball offer and even have a chance then you need to get rid of any contengencies. Something has to look attractive to the seller.

One way to do the no contengencies is have financing without selling your house and then do an option period where you pay the seller an amount to take it off the market for that period. Around here ~$100 and do your inspections during that time. We just did one on the lot we bought for $50 and 10 business days as we needed to find out that we can build what we want.

I don't think that you will be successful lowballing with contingencies.

I was in a similar situation last year. House in bad condition was listed for $235000 and no comparable properties were for sale in the area (lot size, creek, very wooded)

I lowballed (well, in the seller's mind - I still don't think it was a steal) at $190000 and eventually bought the house for $200000. But my offer didn't have any contingencies and neither did I demand an inspection because it was obvious that it needed major repair.
I don't think that the owner would have sold low had I included a home sale contingency or an inspection contingency.

Do you really love the house, and will regret it if you see it sold to somebody else? If that's the case, then I wouldn't try to lowball that aggressively. Some buyers may be offended by that, where they won't sell it to you but will sell it to somebody else later on.

You have no idea what the seller's circumstances are.

Make your offer. All that can happen is they say, "No".

The place hasn't sold in 9 months. Why do you presume $385K is "low ball"? Low ball, IMO, is an offer significantly less than the property's value. A low ball offer has nothing to do with what a seller's asking...

If my property is realistically worth $200K but I list for $280K & you come along & offer $210K that's not a low ball offer.

Good luck & let us know how it goes.

Tricia

Try it if you wish. All they can say is no, but some sellers will resent you, souring any potential future negotiations. Like other posters, I think your odds are really low if you include a home sale contingency with a low offer. If there are other, better values, why not offer on them? Are they in lesser neighborhoods?

There is a home here with some, but not all, the features I seek. It has some oddities and needs work. It has been on the market for about 6 months, and the sellers have moved out of state. My realtor and I both think it is way overpriced. Though my agent was more than willing to write up my offer, I saw little point, as I suspected the owners are still unrealistic. Instead I asked my realtor to call theirs. From that conversation, we are miles apart, and I won't "insult" them with written offer (fair to me, lowball to them). Now the seller's agent knows to talk to my agent if and when they are ready to negotiate. I won't be upset if someone else buys the house; I'll be surprised and happy for the sellers if they get their price. I think it is likely that they will chase prices down all summer and end up with even less.

NJTomato-
So are you going to list YOUR house lower just like you're going to lowball this seller?
I'm always amazed how we think we have castles & we see a pile of "junk" someone else owns & we want to lowball them.
Sorry, had throw in some sarcasm because I sold my house recently & it amazed me how everybody wanted my house for nothing, but wanted a top dollar for theirs. The mindset when you're a buyer & from when you're a seller couldn't be further apart-lol

Is that house truly a fixer upper? Is it advertised as such? I looked at several homes that IMO should have been called fixer uppers, but weren't. I used to say to the realtor..."if someone just broke some windows we would have a fixer upper". The windows barely opened, with peeling paint & wood. Unfortunately, things kind of worked, yet you would have to replace 80% of things to bring it todays living & the owners wanted $ just like anybody else with updated stuff. They lived like that & assumed that you could too-lol

Obviously, they want decent $ for it seeing that they lowered it only 7k. IMO you're asking for too much -contingencies & lowballing.

Its not uncommon in my area to make low offers as many homes are extremely overpriced.

However, offers with home sale contingencies are not that attractive to begin with, so a low offer with contingecies makes it even less attractive. As a seller, I would not take my house off the market for a low offer and a home sale contingency, maybe for one of the above factors, but not both.

In my humble non-professional opinion, I'd make an offer of at least $400K or, if you offer $380K, I'd remove the home sale contingency. Good Luck.

My take is to have a friend who doesn't want the house offer $380K. The sellers will be offended, will hate the friend, but might have a serious discussion about what the house is worth.

After that negotiation is done, wait a week or two, then make your somewhat higher offer. They'll be a lot less offended than if you were the first one to 'break it to them' that their expectations may be too low.

You're shooting blind here. Figure out how much it would cost to "redo" the three baths plus the cost of any cosmetic work. Add 25% to account for the uncertainties of construction. Add some more to account for your troubles, and subtract the total from the $453k. THIS would be a full asking price offer considering others are asking $450k for similar homes in good repair. Lowball does not mean offering substantially less that the asking price. It means offering substantially less than the value of the home.

Many people subscribe to the concept that if you are not embarrassed by your offer, you are paying too much.

Out of curiosity, what does your realtor suggest?

"Something has to look attractive to the seller."
In a slow market, any offer will look attractive to the seller. DonÂt think their realtor doesnÂt know this, as well as the true value of the home. Right now, they are looking for anyone to negotiate with.

"My take is to have a friend who doesn't want the house offer $380K."
With due respect, donÂt even think of it. This is not a game. Your friend might end up with an irrevocable contract to buy.

Excellent advice!!! I had my DOM wrong. It has been on the market for one year this week.

We discussed w/ our realtor the possibility of an offer that was more than 10% off the asking price. He said that you want to give them something they can counter and he had no problem offfering that much less than asking price. He does not think that they have had any offers.

In our area, folks that spend $450k do not want to have to do much work, if any.

I am leaning towards offering $380 and no contingency for having to sell my current home. Our other thought is to offer $10K more but with the contingency. We feel that around $4000K would be a fair price to pay as well as something we could afford.

Part of my thinking is that we like the home, it has potential and we don't mind the effort it would take. Also, the owner is a divorcee with a child in college and the home is too much for her. She might just need a buyer.

Thanks again!!

ps- I do have a friend that with enough vino could be persuaded to offer whatever we asked!!!

Part of my thinking is that we like the home, it has potential and we don't mind the effort it would take. Also, the owner is a divorcee with a child in college and the home is too much for her. She might just need a buyer.

My neighbor just sold his house for more than what he should have gotten, thankfully for him. He bought the house 5 years ago, had borrowed twice on the house, not sure if he refinanced too but had he not gotten what he did, he probably wouldn't have sold because he'd be left with a lot of debt. Selling the house & moving to a cheaper state was an "easy out" for him. It makes me wonder if she is in a similar situation and has to get that much to walk away.

Plus, I've found that this username is rarely already taken.

I'll have to go back there to search to see how close his name is to yours lol

I agree with Jeff, figure out how much it would cost to fix up and then add 25% and subtract that. It always amazes me in other markets (not mine), people will sell a house in amazing condition for 250 with 2 new bathrooms and a kitchen and then a house that needs everything will sell for 220 and someone actually considers that a bargain. It is not unless you have very artistic taste or really want to create your own living space. Bottom line it will cost you more than the difference to fix up the other house

A house that has been on for a year and is in much worse shape than others, think seriously about offering less. Can you feel out the other agent or have your agent do it. I was recently in this position, a house was listed for over 1m and everyone that saw said it should go in the 8s. Eventually the seller realized if everyone says this there is a reason

dabunch, I think you are unneccessarily perturbed. I think "sell high, buy low" is a good theme for life. We should all try to spend as little as possible and bring in as much as possible. To me, that is just sensible. So, I think offer low and see what happens. Sometimes people are just ready to sell.

What is there to do to the bathrooms that is not cosmetic? Are there toilets missing? Are the sinks cracked? The seller may think that if the bathrooms are functional they are just fine.

Here is my story. Several years ago I accepted a low offer in the fall because the offer originally had no house sale contingency. During attorney review (NJ) they decided a house sale contingency was needed after all (oopsie, the mortgager who was under the same umbrella organization as their realtor had made a mistake about what they could afford). My realtor was encouraging me to take the contingency as after all there was a kickout clause. This is before I started visiting here. I was furious at how I felt I had been manipulated

I instructed my lawyer to draft a reply that increased the price of the home incrementally if the contingency was not removed by the spring. Thanfully while their lawyer was drafting a negative response to my rather unusual counter another buyer offered $10,000 more without a contingency.

I never was sure, since I didn't need to check it out, if the kick-out clause only allowed for another offer that was without a house contingency clause. Are there usually any restrictions on what kind of second offer could be accepted to engage the kick out clause? Or is it just up to the seller to use common sense as to which offer is the better bet?

We offered 380k, no home sale contingency. We also learned that she paid only 225k in 1999. Our market did see a huge increase around 2003 but still....

As for the bathrooms, tiles are missing, peices are mismatched and most work was done by a novice do-it-yourselfer years ago. The vanities are falling apart and look to be original.
This home has great bones but does no show well and needs lots of work. In it's price range, homes that are selling do not need this type of work. They are in true move in condition.
Another item that we mentioned is a skylight issue. When we went to an open house there last year, one of the skylights had an obvious leak. When we went back a few weeks ago, it had been painted. The disclosure statement states that there are no known leaks??
Although she is in rough shape now, she has great potential and a fabulous lot!!!
Wish us luck.

"We offered 380k, no home sale contingency. We also learned that she paid only 225k in 1999. Our market did see a huge increase around 2003 but still.... "

What the owner paid for the home is irrelevant, if she had paid $700,000 would you pay her more for the home? No you'd pay fair market value and that's what you should consider now, the fair market value and not what the owner paid.

cordovamom - I understand the point you are making, but often the previous price of the home is relevant in terms of how low the seller will go. We have all heard the stories of people estimating the value of their home by thinking 'I paid x amount five years ago, I'm not going to take a penny less than x+y,' regardless of what the market dictates.

graywings -- inexperienced buyers often think the price the owners paid for a home is relevant because for some reason they think they get to be the "profit" police and dictate how much money someone should make on their home. The market dictates that. A lot of people buy at the height of the market and have to sell at the low of the market and what they paid is irrelevant to the selling price, no one comes along and offers them more because they paid more. Likewise the same holds true for someone being fortunate enough to buy at the low of the market and sell at the height of the market, good for them for making money on the deal. Real estate is a risky business, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose but if you're fortunate enough to win, how much you win is irrelevant to those making offers.

It's been on the market a yr. and they've had no offers. It's overpriced to begin with then IMHO. Their realtor should have had a conversation with them long ago about the house being over priced.
I'd make the offer. See what happens. If they are so emotional attached to the house nothing but their asking price is going to do and they will be sitting on that house for a long time to come. Might be the reason for switching realtors.
Some people just don't get it. It's no longer a home but a item to be sold.

I thought NJ tomato was responding to the caution about offering so low that the sellers can't afford to sell because it would be for less than what they owe. I took NJT's post to mean that s/he had done the research to eliminate this concern.

cordovamom - I don't disagree with anything you have written. My point is simply that many people put an emotional pricetag on the home they are SELLING that is derived in part from what they paid for it.

I am going through this with my husband, who is calculating the price of every item we added to our house and raising the selling price accordingly. I'm going to remain silent for the next couple months until his system either works (and the house sells) or he is willing to listen to another point of view.

70k less for a house you have to do everything to (v something nicely done) is probably about right and I personally would not go up much at all unless you absolutely must have it

Friends bought a fixer years ago and they paid about 100k less and then ended up putting in at least that (and they did not do anything fancy

"It's been on the market a yr. and they've had no offers"

...Nobody knows how many offers they had. The buyer's realtor is assuming there were no offers. There might have been some.

njtomato - I wish you much luck - please let us know how this all turns out.

I have to agree with the triciae and the other posters who said you have nothing to lose by making a low offer. Seventeen years ago, my parents were going through a messy divorce and put my childhood home on the market. It had the potential to be a wonderful family home - had great bones, on acreage lot, in old, very affluent area, and was surrounded by beautiful, expensive properties. Unfortunately, my father had not wanted to put any money into the home for years, and it was badly in need of updating. Structurally it was sound - just needed paint, carpet, updated cabinetry in kitchen/bathrooms, landscaping, etc. It sat on the market for months because it did not show well and most buyers were not looking for a fixer-upper. Also, the real estate agent that my father insisted on using did nothing to aggressively market the home. Finally, a close friend of the real estate agent's son made a lowball offer - about $80k less than asking price. My father was ready to sell and accepted the offer, against the pleas of the rest of the family. (We always suspected that the real estate agent recognized that my father had reached the end of his rope so advised her son's friend to make the lowball offer....) Anyway, the house sold, and the buyer completely remodeled the inside and landscaped outside - it is absolutely beautiful and rivals the rest of the homes in the neighborhood. Moral of story - you never know the sellers circumstances and how ready they may be to sell....

Our initial offer was refused. We waited 3 weeks and offered 405k. We settled on 410k plus pool table :-), no contingency. We are very pleased and have our inspection next week. It's a great house and we look forward to working on it.

Thanks for all of the help!

Congratulations!

I hope the inspection report is thorough, and turns up only the problems you're expecting.

congrats! And thanks for the follow-up!

It's nice to hear the end of the story.