Depends how their divorce agreement is worded. Sometimes they need to agree on an offer, sometimes the divorce stipulates all offers with XX percentage of list must be accepted with only financing & inspection contingencies, etc. George cannot just cut out Martha, he needs to abide by their divorce agreement.

I'm not sure why you think George is up to something. You can always go forward with your offer by removing the finance contingency inside the 60 day window, and close. The rumors you hear may be that if you do not close in the next 60 days, he is done listing and will buy out his ex.

Maybe I am missing something?

We don't WANT to close inside 60 days unless we sell our house. We don't want to gamble on selling our house in that short period of time and perhaps getting stuck with 2 mortgages. We don't HAVE to move -- we would LIKE to move.

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly, or maybe I don't understand how a buyout between George and Martha would work in May. I am kind of thinking that perhaps the price George would have to pay Martha in May is LESS than half of what we would buy the house for. So he makes more money by discouraging us from buying before Martha has to move out. He knows we will pay at least $215,000. (They lived there about 18 years and paid $80,000 when they bought it.)

She may only be entitled to live there until May and at that point have to pay George some rent or move. A buyout may trigger in May that requires George to pay XX dollars to Martha if the house has not sold at that point. That money should have been escrowed if she had a smart attorney. He also may have to pay Martha 1/2 of the housing proceeds above and beyond the May payout when the house finally is sold, or an amount equal to a fair appraisal (this could be up to three appraisals with an average) if he chooses to purchase the house. In other words, he gains nothing by selling for less than market value.

There are a ton more things that could happen. It is all speculation without the paperwork.

It sounds to me like George and Martha can't or won't accept an offer with a home sale contingency. They countered with a 60 day close, not an acceptance of a home sale contingency.
Good luck in your negotiations!

Bottom line, NO seller wants to accept an offer with a home sale contingency - that is worth nothing at all. I find it perfectly understandable. I think they were reasonable with their counter of 60 days to close.

You have tried the home sale contingency twice, but perhaps you could counter back re-inserting the home sale contingency with a bit more money to entice George. If that doesn't work, you can try to market your current home; if you get an offer you could check the status of the golf course home before accepting. Of course your agent will need to understand and agree (in writing).

You cannot really know or control whether George and his GF want to own it or how he will treat his ex. Speculation is probably a waste of your energy.

We don't WANT to close inside 60 days unless we sell our house. We don't want to gamble on selling our house in that short period of time and perhaps getting stuck with 2 mortgages. We don't HAVE to move -- we would LIKE to move.

Whats not to understand? You're not a motivated buyer. They don't want to take the chance that their house is off the market for 60 days and you decide not to buy. You want them to take all the risk and you are not willing to take any. If you want the house either buy it without a contingency to sell yours, or wait until you have a buyer on yours and hope that one is still available. Its very simple.

We don't WANT to close inside 60 days unless we sell our house. We don't want to gamble on selling our house in that short period of time and perhaps getting stuck with 2 mortgages. We don't HAVE to move -- we would LIKE to move.

I don't understand why you offered on a house if you aren't serious about buying it. In most markets, houses are sitting, we've been on 9 months, you are probably right in that you won't sell your house in 60 days, especially if it is not listed.

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly, or maybe I don't understand how a buyout between George and Martha would work in May. I am kind of thinking that perhaps the price George would have to pay Martha in May is LESS than half of what we would buy the house for. So he makes more money by discouraging us from buying before Martha has to move out. He knows we will pay at least $215,000. (They lived there about 18 years and paid $80,000 when they bought it.)

Maybe I need more coffee. For one, what they paid for the house years ago has nothing to do with what it is listed at now. Do comps support what you offered? Here in NJ you can't touch a house on a golf course for that price.

If you are worried that George will take the house out from under you, you do have a contract don't you? There is this person called a judge, all Martha has to do is go to family court. I was in a situation where my ex's friend was an agent, he wanted to list the house with that agent, I saw the judge, judge said no. It is in Martha's best interest to make your deal work.

You have a signed contract for such & such amount, if you do not sell your house, a judge will most likely order to have the house appraised. Either he will have to buy her out at the appraised price or what you offered.

If you are serious about buying the house, get your house listed asap.

Your offer is really kind of blech. I'd reject it too. You want a deal on the price plus if you don't sell your house, you're going to back out anyway. That's why they put a time limit on the contingency. Would YOU accept an open ended contingency offer on your house? All it does is tie your hands waiting for something that may or may not happen.

As mentioned, if you really want a house and don't want to be stuck with two mortgages you'd better sell your house first.

I have to agree with deee 100%. You're looking for them to assume all the risk, *plus* you're asking for a reduced price. Not very appealing to most sellers.

I agree with dee and Reno. So what if they paid $80,000 18 years ago--they can't buy anything for $80,000 on the golf course now, can they? If they can, maybe you should buy THAT.

If you really want the house, put yours on the market now and see if it sells. Then offer $210 with no contingincy. You could list yours with a contingincy that you find another house and see if anyone will buy it. You may get lucky! I hope so!

They have till May to hope someone else comes along. Why don't you put your house on the market with a contingent that you get this other house? If you got a fast offer and the other house just happened to go under contract at the same time for a higher price, you'd be covered and could stay where you are. If they are still looking for a buyer - everyone wins.

The other reason (besides all those listed above) that they know you are not a serious buyer --ready to move immediately, is that you made an offer in the Fall, and now you are making your second offer months later.

Put yourself in the seller's shoes.

I would not accept a contingency that says I'll buy your house only if I can sell mine.

Sell you house first, then put an offer in.

Enjoy the journey.

eal51 in western CT

hey, littlebug, I think you've gotten some good, though hard to hear, opinions here.

How would you feel if someone offered you the same offer (percentage wise) with the same conditions on your current house?
would you feel it was a good deal?

Littlebug5 here. Thanks for your blunt comments - I knew my imaginary friends, as DH calls this forum, would help us see the forest through the trees. Some more information:

We have known Martha for many many years. DH and I and Martha graduated from high school together in a class of about 100. So obviously we know each other fairly well. To further complicate things, the realtor (I'll call him The Donald) was in our class too. Seems kind of incestuous, doesn't it? But this is a very small town.

The price is fair. There are 3 other homes for sale on the golf course (asking $129,000, 179,000 and 200,000). A house a block away sold at Xmas for $237,000, but it is about 10 years old while George and Martha's is 40 years old. This ain't New Jersey, obviously. Our nearest WalMart is 25 miles away - we're Small Town U.S.A.

The contingency contract we're asking for does NOT prevent George and Martha from continuing to solicit other offers. It gives us a 72-hour-time-frame for the right of first refusal if they get a better offer.

About 20 years ago on a whim DH and I listed the home we lived in at the time at what we thought was an optimistic price. Well, it sold almost right away, and we had nowhere to go. We had to rent for 9 months while we looked for another home. I hated, hated hated renting. I don't want to do that again. That's why I'd like to tie this house up.

When we sell our house, we are in a position to be a CASH buyer. So we are not asking for a financing contingency. CASH buyers in our small town for a $215,000 home are very very few and far between. And George and Martha have had NO OTHER OFFERS, cash or otherwise.

Yes, I've got some hard advice. And I can kind of see their side, but I see mine too.

At this point, we are working hard to get our house ready to show. Maybe by this time next week, we'll be ready . . .

The problem with your deal, if I were the seller and took your offer:

- I now have less control over my future, as I'm at the mercy of how motivated you are as a seller.

- Potential buyers and real estate agents are discouraged from showing my property, as it is under agreement. Why look at my house when there are so many others on the market?

I believe your personal relationships (and potential bias against George) are clouding your judgment on this real estate deal.

If I were selling a house in this market, NO WAY would I sell my house with a buyer's contingency to sell their home.

As someone said to me once "If you agree to that, you won't have one house to sell, you'll have two!"

From a Realtor's perspective, the deal still doesn't seem all that appealing. If I have buyers, I may pull all the homes they're looking for. If one has a contingency, especially a contingency with a 72 hour kickout clause, we usually won't waste our time with it. Why?

-Unless it's a highly sought after property, people don't want to mess with a house that already has a contract on it.

-72 hours is a LONG time for another buyer to wait to see if they can even get it. Let's say that a buyer ignores the contingency, sees Martha's house, and wants to put in an offer. They have to suspend their search, put all of their eggs in one basket, and wait for 72 hours to see what you'll do, all the while knowing that it's a distinct possibility that they may not even get the house. You're not a terribly motivated buyer, but if there is a buyer that *has* to have an answer quickly, they'll avoid this house like the plague.

While it looks good on paper and feels good for you to be able to say that George and Martha will still be able to court offers, in reality a contingency like you're proposing will all but eliminate other realtors from showing this house. (Or at least that would be the case in our area. YMMV)

The only way I'd even bother with a contigency offer is to do an incredibly short 12 hour kick out. That way if another buyer came, they wouldn't have to wait so long to find out if they could even get the house.

yes, as a buyer i was very turned off by the thought of a bidding war or having to be compared with other buyers--if a house was under agreement I didn't even want to see it. buying a home is stressful enough without the complication!

hopefully it will work out. maybe in june they will come begging you to buy the house. that happened to my sister--her offers were refused, and then one day (months later) the sellers came begging her to buy their house, as they were then desperate to sell....

Did your sister buy the house?

We bought our current house with a sale contingency. When we made our offer in March '07, the house had been on the market for three months with no offers. We offered $7k below list, plus sale, financing, and inspection contingencies (plus $1k in earnest money, which is considered A LOT for our area, and a pre-approval letter from our bank). The sellers had already bought a new condo and moved out. They accepted our offer with a 48-hour kickout clause and gave us 30 days to sell our house, which, when we made the offer, wasn't even on the market yet. When ours didn't sell after 30 days, the sellers gave us a 30-day extension and also learned we were prepared to go ahead with a bridge loan if necessary. We did have bridge financing for about three weeks before we closed on our old house.

We are in an area where some houses are taking up to two YEARS to sell. Having moved on and not having any offers, our sellers were obviously willing to take some risks to sell their house. Not everyone is.

In a divorce situation, I'd think the divorcing couple would want all financial matters cleared up ASAP, so that may be part of the reason George is so reluctant to accept your sale contingency. Perhaps you could offer more earnest money with the promise that the seller keeps all of it should you not be able to sell your house in the given timeframe or should you not remove the contingency if your house doesn't sell in the timeframe. Doesn't sound to me like George is in any big hurry to sell.

Good luck!

We bought our current house from a divorcing couple. I would NEVER do that again. It took us six long, hard months to close.

The wife was living in the house. She didn't want to leave. I don't think she wanted to get divorced. The house was her last piece of leverage, and she used it.

Guess who got stuck in the middle of their ugly mess? Us!

sds-- yes she did!