I have seen a gunite price sheet one of my builders showed me a few months ago. They went buy perimeter ft, then on the side they had add ons. Like 6-8ft add this much, tanning ledge add this much etc. I don't have it in front of me. Anyway I would ask him to see it. If he has nothing to hide he won't mind, if he pitches a fit, something is wrong.
Old days they measured the actual amt of blown concrete [gunite], and billed the contractor accordingly. At 90.00 to 120.00 per blown yard, the bill could change drasticly. Caused alot of riff between builders and subs. So now, the price sheet.

Throughout my life I've found whenever someone says it's not the money it's the principle, it's always the money.

What kind of credit are you expecting? The difference in material can't be that much, so at what point would you trust your PB? Suppose he said it's a $100 credit, $200 credit, $300 credit? What amount would satisfy your principle?

When we spec'd our pool, we decided on a 5' depth and the PB gave us a quote. We asked if she thought 6' would be better. Her response was it's a personal decision, but just let her know before they dig and they'll change it to 6' at no additional charge. I'm guessing like Colt said that there are fixed prices for depth ranges and it costs the PB the same for 5' or 6'.

Just trust your PB. He's already giving you a break by eating the $55, not too mention the delay this causes him.

I also don't understand how something like this can suddenly cause a person not to trust their contractor. If the trust level is so fragile that something as minor as this causes you to question your contractor's ethics, then you've likely chosen the wrong firm. I do plenty of research (BBB, county records, previous customers, etc.) before I sign any contract. When I make a decision on a big purchase like a pool, I'm very confident with my decision and trust the provider quite a bit. I only sign with those that have good records and excellent reputations. Those contractors don't pass these tests by being unethical. Most times that means I'm signing with someone that isn't the lowest price, but when everything's done, I usually feel like I got the best deal.

Good luck,

Kevin

Kevin,

None of us can say that we don't consider the money involved in making most decisions. However, I don't mind paying for getting good service and quality. As a consumer I do like to think I have been treated fairly. In any design change we have made with the builder we have been more than willing to pay for additional costs as needed.

Therefore, our thinking was if the builders expect customers to pay for changes where it increases labor or material (such as additional brass or plumbing runs we paid for when we asked that the equipment be in a certain spot) why shouldn't it be fair that a credit is given if less shotcrete is needed.

We just wanted a double check on the information we received because the pool salesperson told my husband that a credit would seem fair when we called them back to confirm our pool depth change. The salesperson said he would have to talk with the owner though. After speaking with the owner he then told my husband there would be no credit as I explained in my initial post. This is what put the doubt in my mind. Shouldn't a pool salesperson know how they price the job and how their costs are figured?

In a perfect world things would go just as initially planned, but this is construction and sometimes you miss some issues in the initial planning. Being first time pool buyers we were spending valuable time on checking out pool companies and understanding all the choices to decide in building a pool. You're right that checking out the BBB and registrar of contractors is a good thing.

My other reason about wanting to know if my pool builder was being upfront about all this is that I do care when I refer friends to a builder. Even though they are responsible for their own "homework" you still feel as if you had some part in their good or bad experience.

I guess if this depth change is the only major issue we incur on this pool we'll be doing alright.

Thanks for your input.

I think you are getting a bargain at $600 for that change order. We don't do pools,but we are in the concrete and steel business. Unlike Finesse, who changed design before it was dug, you are after the fact change. Your pool builder has to schedule the excavator, the excavator has to change his schedule, find dirt or dg and probably pay for it, haul it, place it and compact it. The cost of that versus a credit to you for a minimal amount of shotcrete....... I would say the owner gave you a great price. By my estimate, I would charge you $1200 for that IF I could find free fill. We are in Vegas, so similar area of the country for costs and amount of construction going on. Best of luck, it sounds like you have an ethical builder.
Barb

I'm no pool builder, but I did DIY w/ a consultant. What I've learned is that whenever I made changes to the original plans, I pretty much have to agree with the sub-contractors quote for the additional amount to make the change(s). But I also learned that it doesn't hurt to ask if they could lower the charge. They would often agree to discount if I offered to pay in cash.

I'm not taking any sides, but the PB could have easily charged you $1000 for the change and say that he is crediting you $400 for the lesser shotcrete. $600 for the change you made doesn't seem much. You are paying tens of thousands of dollars for your project. If your PB is still giving your good service, $600 is really not much for getting what you really want.

You're only on the dig phase. I could almost guarantee you, that you will make another change in your original plan, and it may cost you a lot more than $600. Just make sure you have a good relationship with your PB, and get your pool done before the swim season passes you up.

This forum is great. Thanks to all of you for your comments. You will be our Stuart Smalley of daily affirmations about this change.

The excavator is actually here now filling the dirt back in, watering it down and pounding it with the bucket on the Bobcat. I take it that this is the standard procedure for this kind of thing.

My husband came home after work and was checking out the pool dig with the dirt added back in. He brought a metal (construction) probe home from work and it goes into the dirt for a foot in some places. As compared to places in the pool bottom where it will only go an inch or so. My husband is wondering if they should have used something like a jumping jack to compact the dirt, not just the bottom of the bucket on the Bobcat. Any expert opinions out there? The pool superintendent is coming by to look at it tomorrow. Even if the pool builder provides a warranty we don't want to have any type of problems with settling.

I wonder about this myself, to be honest. Not sure where you are, but here in Florida much of our soil is sandy and it shifts really easily if it's not already compacted... Could it shift under the pool? I was curious why it wouldn't have been better just to fill it with extra gunite in the first place...

We are in Phoenix, AZ. I believe the pool builder went with adding dirt back in because the cost was cheaper. They didn't really seem to think twice about the decision either so I figured it was a common resolution for this type of thing.

We call them tampers here, but the bucket will work as well, just not cover as large an area at the same time.He probably saved on going to rent one and just used the time in labor to tamp it, same result. Our soils in the SW are hard here, not sand so you may be ok. The only thing I can see is you need more shotcrete, which he didn't charge you for from your original post. relax and post tomorrow, you are actually coming out ahead. Sometimes we contractors actually loose money : ( don't pass that on I don't like those but they happen, best of luck, Barb

I had some concerns about how they were going to fill in, but that wasn't the original subject. I always heard that they wanted to shoot against "undisturbed" earth. Hard to get that back. Some areas around here are a sandy loam, some solid rock. Sometimes on the same street! Hope it's not a problem.

I'm not getting the impression that you guys are convinced the excavator did this soil compaction right. He did not use a tamper, just the Bobcat bucket. I would love to hear from a contractor that has had this experience and what they feel is the correct way to handle it.

Barb, not sure I understand your post of why we need more shotcrete now that the dirt has been filled in.

Hi gd, yea when I re read my message it is not clear. I figure if you are not solidly compacted it will need a bit more shotcrete than the shallow depth originally would have called for. Not the estimate for the deeper design . Anyway, I asked DH about this last night, he said in our soils here in SW it is no big deal to fill in dirt. Mainly because we don't have the water table in the soil to worry about. One thing I would be sure to do is be there when shotcrete is done. Have them show you with a tape the depth so there is no miscommunication. There was a thread on here not too long ago about feeding and watering the crews at your house. Our guys always appreciate the kindness, although it is not expected. Hand them a bottle of Gatorade and ask a question or request something and they are delighted to oblige.
We are in the process of remodeling and landscaping our pool and I always put out snacks and water for the guys. They don't mind hanging around a little longer to do a perfect job for you. Keep us posted, barb

Barb, I agree that a little kindness towards others can go a long way. I fixed lunch for the excavation crew when they were here and they seemed to appreciate it.

I kind of wondered if that is what you meant about the shotcrete, but what if the added dirt settles more later after the pool is complete. I know the pool builder has a warranty on the shell, but I don't want to have to use it. I'd rather not have any problems.

I'm sure a lot of pool owners nowadays are converting old diving pools to play pools. I wonder how they bring the depth up on those pools. Do they ever add dirt after removing the old pool shell or is there another method. I guess we'll just wait and see what our pool builder has to say when his superintendent comes out to look at the fill job today. Thanks again for your input.

"a little kindness towards others can go a long way".
Yes it can! In all those backyards, for all those years, I can count on one hand the number of homeowners that even said hello, let alone get us a drink, or make us lunch. We usually finished their pools on time, or early.
A freind of mine at the time installed alarm systems. He did one for Roger Staubach. He never saw Roger, but Mrs Staubach, made them sandwitches and lemonaid. He still tells the story and that was 30 years ago.
Since we are totally off topic, I got this one second hand, but the guy that told me seems pretty straight up. A pool cleaner did Nolan Ryan's pool. He saw Mrs Ryan sometimes and Nolan maybe once in a year. He was a huge fan, but too shy to ask for a autograph. Someone told him to leave a baseball on the table by the pool and maybe he will sign it.
He did just that. Next time he cleaned the pool, the ball was gone, nobody was home. The week after, still no ball. Then one afternoon he went to cleaning the pool and noticed a ball on the table. Signed by not only Nolan Ryan, but half the Texas Rangers baseball club! With a note, that read. Sorry it took so long, good job on the pool.
I bet that was the cleanest pool in North Texas......lol

Colt357 that is a great story. I bet that just made your friends day.

That's a really shoddy idea to put dirt back into a pool excavation and try to compact it. Crushed gravel is the way to do it.
I'm shocked that they would even spend the time to try that as opposed to just dumping gravel into the hole.

Colt357
That is a super story and much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to share it.

T-square, I guess it is a mute point at this stage in the process for our pool. The added dirt is in and the plumbing is done. Re-bar is scheduled for tomorrow. The pool superintendent commented that the added dirt isn't much different than what they do for a hard dig when they over dig it and then fill dirt back in. If you add gravel in how does that affect the in-floor plumbing which was done after the depth was corrected. Wouldn't the gravel just get all mixed in with the plumber's trenches?

On a positive note, you'll save money when it comes time to fill the pool with water. ;-)

It doesn't do a lot of good to dwell on mistakes so we'll live and learn on this one. I'm sure it could be worse on our first pool. We've never owned one or built one. Since it will be 100 degrees this week in Phoenix we'll just be excited to finally have a pool to cool off in this summer. Thanks for the positive note skinnydipper!

We do infloor systems on 90% of our pools and we always overdig and add gravel. It actualy makes it much easier to plumb in the infloor systems.

It's probably all said and done by now but that gravel idea makes sense. Never did a in pool system, seen a few though.
Also the guy that told that story was in this week and swears it's true. He can't remember the cleaners name though.
A certain sports star I won't name here but his initials are Terry Bradshaw, must not have been haveing a good day when a guy that does water wells in the area told him repairs to his well would be 6500.00! He threw things, as well as some colorfull metaphors, and claimed the price was high because of his celebrity status. He called around and called the original buy back. I guess 6500.00 turned out to be the low bid. It's hard to eat crow.
I'm certain 90 pct of the time Terry is a sweet guy. He used to jog on the semi rural roads out here and people waved and he waved back. He and Pat Summeral used to have breakfast at a little diner in Southlake. So what I'm saying is, people are just people and a celebrities can have a bad day and.........this is SO off topic....sorry.