We moved about 2 years ago and thus I have recent experience with both Bosch and Miele dishwashers. Our old house had a Bosch Dishwasher (800 series) that was about 5 years old when we moved. When we moved into our new house it had a Kitchen Aid dishwasher and we realized in the first couple weeks that it needed to be replaced because: 1. it didn't clean the dishes and 2. it was ridiculously noisy. So, we replaced it with a Miele. We were going to buy a Bosch, but we got a really good deal on a Miele. Both dishwashers do a very good job cleaning the dishes and are equally quiet (i.e., if I am standing next to either of them I can't tell that the are running). All in all they are very similar so I will just list the things I find are different between them. My wife likes a clean look, so both dishwashers had hidden controls. Bosch: Pros: I really liked the light it had that lit up the floor red to tell you it was on and green to tell you it was finished. This way I didn't accidentally open the door when it was running. Cons: The little plastic wheel that are used to slide the bottom tray in and out kept falling off and/or breaking. On a positive, for some reason we were given a lot of extra wheels when it was installed (either by the installer, the company that sold it, or the manufacturer) so it was no problem to replace/fix, which indicated to me that someone anticipated this would be an issue. Miele: Pros - seems like a sturdy construction and we've had no problems at all so far. - 3D cutlery tray. We almost didn't get the Miele because of this, but it turns out this thing is great and far superior to the old style basket holder. It speeds up loading and unloading cutlery and is a big positive. I, however, think the new Bosch's have something similar. Cons - it doesn't have the light that lights up the floor, thus it is not uncommon for me to open the dishwasher while it is running. - the dang beep when it is finished running annoys me. I preferred the Bosch's green light on the floor.

Thanks so much everyone for your great responses! I'd started responding to each of you when I last wrote (starting w/ the "oh no I wish you hadn't told me they're coming out w/ a new line" post) but then kids called and I never got to finish responding to the rest of you! My apologies... antss - those crate & barrel bowls seem perfectly fine. Thanks for relieving my fears! numbersjunkie - I wish! I can't pull the cabinets out because between the floor space being small enough and there being doors on either end of the long countertop, there just isn't room. But that would be a great idea otherwise! monicakm - trust me - I'd love to be able to get the Kitchenaid! From reading everyone's posts, I'm thinking or at least *hoping* that the problem you've had is more w/ Bosch and less w/ Miele (?) re. platters, baking dishes et al. I don't feel you're being pushy myself just because I made it clear how much I really wanted the Kitchenaid - FYI. You're just trying to help. ;) But like I was saying to numbersjunkie, I can't pull the dishwasher out more because there's a door that when opened (a fear I have - of it happening w/ too much force) will hit the dishwasher if it's even a little further out. It would also make it so that the door could never be opened fully and flush w/ counter to let in all the light from the mudroom/back yard...that would drive me batty. You do have me wondering though: can the Miele's 2nd rack be raised up like the Kitchenaids do? Hope so! carol jk - that's odd. Our water here is soft on its own so hopefully I can just disable the water-softening option. antss - it's funny...when you wrote "some people like the neat orderly loading of a Euro and others prefer the ability to load chaotically in an American tub" I thought that oh dear - I'm the chaotic messy one - very NOT Type A - haha! I want to be as chaotic as I please (w/ option of being orderly of course, when I decide to wear that hat as I do on occasion!) but I think I can still be chaotic w/ the Miele dishwasher, within reason (if that's not an oxymoron)! For example, I'm HOPING I can just lay the flatware on the top tray on occasion, knowing I can't put as many pieces in. I've seen that work for other people in other dishwashers. It all gets clean just the same unless there's heavy soiling. For me the highest priority is unfortunately that it fit in the space, then the second is that it is a reliable machine that's built to last, the third is that it's very good at cleaning very soiled/stuck-on dishes. Not sure where efficiency of space/flexibility of baskets falls in line but probably somewhere soon after! As for the new models not coming out anytime soon...I won't bother holding out. :( fauguy -Thanks for answering those q's! I don't have china/crystal that I use but I do use wine glasses. Can typical wine glasses take a lot of heat - e.g. same setting as pots & pans or cheese/starch? If they can take that kind of heat, I wouldn't have to do two separate loads. I guess if the new models end up being WOW FANTASTIC better, I could sell my current model and pay for the upgrade that way you know? Meanwhile I wouldn't waste time waiting around. Also, if the upgraded racks can fit into an older machine I could always just purchase those but who knows. Not all that important for now. whirlpool trainee/Alex - Thanks for the press release link! I love the lights, but most of all the intensive option. I could care less about the extra silent cycle having a separate kitchen however if it saves on water and electricity more then it would be a nice overnight option on occasion. buffalotina - good to know! I can't BELIEVE the off-the-charts excellent reviews everywhere I look. I don't know if I wrote this earlier or not but the bottom line is that if I had to get new bowls or a better-fitting but lesser-cleaning dishwasher, guess which one I'd choose? Bowls don't cost THAT much! And I'm sure they'd fit one way or another. Plus, I noticed the tines are surprisingly flexible - not that I'd rely solely on that. Alex - That video won't load properly for me for some reason. I eventually got it so that I could scroll slowly through stills but no video. Got the gist of it though, thanks! fun2cook - I've asked my contractor 3x now and he just won't recess the Kitchenaid due to it being an external wall w/ only 2x4 studs. And I explained above why it can't stick out, darn it. As for getting a dishwasher in black, apologies in advance for the following rant-of-sorts: I think black's generally a very nice idea and can look very good. I wonder though if it would fade into the background when surrounded by white cabinets and w/ nothing else being black (?). We have a white range and microwave and there's no space for wall ovens. I haven't had a dishwasher in years (so excited!) but the last one I had years ago (and for several years) was black and I wanted to try something different and new-to-me. I'm doing the integrated "cabinet door" look for 2 reasons: one being that it's trendy in the fun sense (I've always been behind in the times or unable to get the latest thing so that's new for me)! :) The other reason: my new stainless countertop (in 1913 period style if all works out well) will sit above the DW, w/ new stainless fridge being on opposite wall. The way that whole wall is set up in conjunction w/ the rest of the room is such that balance seems to be required more than usual. So again I'll have two walls opposite each other that will have noticeably stainless elements so hopefully no other distractions (just white cabinets and white farm sink and marble subway tile backsplash) and then the other two walls will just have white w/ no stainless (the white stove w/ white microwave and white 1913 cabinet above). So while things will be overwhelmingly if not annoyingly white, it's a small room and there will be some balance overall - and then there will be black accents from the original hardware on the cabinets but they will be relatively subtle. The true color in the room will come in through wall paint and accessories. It's the best I could come up w/ for staying w/ painted original cabinets and not having a whole lot of money - or my own personal designer! fauguy - I do know dishwashers come in white, thanks. I could get a white DW but that wouldn't be as attractive I don't think. I love combining "modern trends" or "upadated looks" with period-appropriate (not something we've always gotten in the past!), which the integrated cabinet door look offers. Plus it just helps w/ the overall symmetry of the lower cabinets under the counter. It can also help when dealing w/ a small, dark, easily-cluttered-looking kitchen. gwentm - you're so lucky your DW will go on an interior wall! Jealous! It's a GREAT dishwasher...really good reviews and at such a better price for their top of the line model. I suppose there's some validity w/ the argument that K.A. appliances aren't built to last as long as the Mieles but on the other hand, as technology advances, I might want to change out my long-lasting Euro dishwasher before the 20-year mark has arrived, anyway! ;)

I've never had an Asko but I'm with you on the rack design. Asko's center rack is much more useful than the top 3rd racks that every upscale dishwasher seems to have sprouted recently. It's not just the location, but that Asko's third rack has enough height to accept cups and short glasses, not just utensils. And the top rack is located higher (and thus an easier reach) than those nestled below shallow top 3rd racks. But like the Mieles, Asko's racks are rather short front to back, as they are designed to fit in shollower European cabinetry that few have in N. America.

This is a two way street. The people that get all ruffled at Miele when they suggest that there might be operator error are guilty of the same behavior they're accusing Miele of. They are not considering the possibility that they or a particular use might just using the appliance improperly ! I've had almost 20 years with these machines and Miele sometimes sends out or you receive a bum steer. I've personally seen ones arrive with seized pumps or non functioning heaters - you can count them on less than one hand, but they are out there. second, Miele designs and builds one of the most advanced and highest quality units in the industry today. Like any other company, they sometimes ship a defective unit or it gets broken in transit from Germany or they just get or specify a not so good batch of parts. This does not man that they are a bad or inferior company. It does mean that THAT particular user's experience is not so rosey and like a wrecked car you can't un-wreck it. Knowing that you design and produce one of the best machines in the market it's natural for a company to take the view that if there is an initial prob. that it is operator error, especially when the data actually bears this out. Now, what this doesn't take into account is that the product might just not be the correct choice or a particular individual. i.e I just like rinsing my dishes so they don't get crusty or I like using x brand of detergent which for whatever reason doesn't work in a particular unit. (asolo - I agree with you in principle, but some combos just don't work especially in the prior generation) Or - my dishes are wet AND I refuse to use rinse aid. The prob. is big corp. brother makes NO provision whatsoever for the fact that sometimes a product is not a good fit for or able to meet the needs of some customers. For those that take umbrage at all the try this or that. Take a breath - most of these are good suggestions that have worked for people that have had problems with these in the past - sure it'd be nice to take it out of the box and have it adapt to my habits without needing to read the manual, but that isn't the case with much these days. Again - all this hopping on one leg patting one's head while tugging the left earlobe may be more than a particular customer wants or feels (s)he should have to invest in getting a tool to work for them. But, refusing to do it once you're in the game AND THEN calling the product or co.'s stuff, junk isn't quite fair. I'd advise megg not to get a Bosch - or any other Euro washer and the results are very likely to be the same. I do hope (s)he will come back and tell us what they ended up replacing the miele with and how the new unit fairs.